My husband got caught in an affair, I assume its over as for almost 3 yrs don't think he has seen her but contacting her could be another story. Went on for years and she lived in another state so one of those when in town kind of things. I know he Never wanted out of marriage. I saw gift for her and he denied I saw it ha. I put 2 and 2 together and there were lots of things that I should have been aware of , all his trips places etc. Naive and trusting as he was Mr integrity himself, last person you would ever imagine would have affair . Not taking responsiblity for it was mind blowing for me as so unlike him as a man of principal etc.Has denied anything and after trying to talk he wouldn't admit to anything and said he would leave if I brought up subject again. He is now the most perfect husband a wife could ask for , he really is. I just have alot of trouble trusting him knowing he lies to me and he knows I know he lied to me. He hurts me every day he isn't honest with me and then he's so nice to me and things are better in many ways then they ever were. I understand the need for affairs and how they happen, we had a pretty sexless marriage but thats all in the past, things are great now. I just see one MC after another trying to figure out why this man will not level with me so I can move on and have that great marriage I know we could have, he thinks he has it now. I don't need details etc I just need him to acknowledge he has hurt me and cares about me enought by telling me the truth, Is the affair over?? I need to hear him tell me that and Iwill believe him then but not until he tells me that will I ever trust him and it puts distance between us on my part. He once said if he had affair it would just be for sex, can believe that. She was a friend and he said he needed a friend, okay, so do I and it should be him but I can't get past the lying to me and knowing he knows he has hurt me . ANy ideas why????

I find the title of your thread truly offensive considering that women are just as prone as lying as men. Take a look around and read all the betrayed husband's threads about all the bold face lying their unfaithful wives have done to them AND the gall of blaming their affairs on their husbands. These men are not only betrayed by their wives but by the legal system as well when their children and their homes are taken away while their cheating wives bring their lovers to live in the family home while their children suffer the absence of their fathers.

Men do not own a monopoly on affairs, especially in todays society where women have almost practically caught up with them.

Probably for the same reason that my wife does the same thing.

But I do wish you the best of luck.

God Bless

<small>[ March 07, 2003, 12:18 PM: Message edited by: Trusting Her ]</small>

Perhaps a better title would have been "Why do people deny and lie to you?"

I wish we could answer that question, we're all pondering it, betrayed men and women here...selfish behavior, perhaps? A misplaced sense of entitlement? self-destructive tendencies? Lack of moral fiber?

I've got to back the boys up here.

Change the title of your thread. Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

He lies because he is a liar, not because he is a man. Women lie as much or more as men.

You can't get past it because it has never been truthfully addressed - it has been hidden instead of resolved. Once you know the truth, you will be able to get past it. Until then, your marriage is in trouble because you can never develop the level of intimacy needed to sustain a marriage as long as there is a lie between you.

And it will probably happen again because the problems underlying the affair were never addressed. His secrecy is almost as cruel as the affair itself and he basically holds you in the marriage WITH A LIE. If you knew the truth would you stay? Maybe yes, maybe no, but that should be YOUR decision, not *HIS*.

I would show him this:
Here is what Harley says about it:
“From my perspective, honesty is part of the solution to infidelity, and so I'll take honesty for whatever reason, even if it's to relieve a feeling of guilt and depression. The revelation of an affair is very hard on an unsuspecting spouse, of course, but at the same time, it's the first step toward marital reconciliation.

Most unfaithful spouses know that their affair is one of the most heartless acts they could ever inflict on their spouse. So one of their reasons to be dishonest is to protect their spouse from emotional pain. "Why add insult to injury," they reason. "What I did was wrong, but why put my spouse through needless pain by revealing this thoughtless act?" As is the case with bank robbers and murderers, unfaithful spouses don't think they will ever be discovered, and so they don't expect their unfaithfulness to hurt their spouse.

But I am one of the very few that advocate the revelation of affairs at all costs, even when the wayward spouse has no feelings of guilt or depression to overcome. I believe that honesty is so essential to the success of marriage, that hiding past infidelity makes a marriage dishonest, preventing emotional closeness and intimacy.

It isn't honesty that causes the pain, it's the affair. Honesty is simply revealing truth to the victim. Those who advocate dishonesty regarding infidelity assume that the truth will cause such irreparable harm, that it's in the best interest of a victimized spouse to go through life with the illusion of fidelity.

It's patronizing to think that a spouse cannot bear to hear the truth. Anyone who assumes that their spouse cannot handle truth is being incredibly disrespectful, manipulative and in the final analysis, dangerous. How little you must think of your spouse when you try to protect him or her from the truth.

It's not only patronizing, but it's also false to assume that your spouse cannot bear to hear the truth. Illusions do not make us happy, they cause us to wander through life, bumping into barriers that are invisible to us because of the illusion that is created. Truth, on the other hand, reveals those barriers, and sheds light on them so that we can see well enough to overcome them. The unsuspecting spouse of an unfaithful husband or wife wonders why their marriage is not more fulfilling and more intimate. Knowledge of an affair would make it clear why all efforts have failed.

After revealing an affair, your spouse will no longer trust you. But lack of trust does not ruin a marriage, it's the lack of care and protection that ruins marriages. Your spouse should not trust you, and the sooner your spouse realizes it, the better.

The Policy of Radical Honesty is one of two rules you must follow to protect your spouse from your self-centered behavior, which includes affairs. The other rule is the Policy of Joint Agreement (never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement between you and your spouse). If you were to be completely honest with you spouse, and you were to follow the Policy of Joint Agreement, an affair would be impossible, unless for some reason your spouse wanted you to have one.

If you knew that your affair would be discovered -- that right after having sex with your co-worker, your spouse were to find out about it -- you would probably not go through with it. And if you were honest enough with your spouse so that YOU would be the one to tell him or her what you did, your honesty would be a huge reason to avoid any affair.

How the victimized spouse should respond to the revelation of an affair is a subject of a later column. I do not have the space to treat it here. But a spouse is twice victimized when he or she is lied to about an affair. Truth is far easier to handle than lies.”

Char ...

Please take some time to read what the Harley's have to say about disrespectful judgements. It could be a quite useful starting point in your efforts to save your marriage.

Chardondeere,

lots of flags in your post that are worrisome...there is no magic key to unlocking your husbands behavior...it is not about his behavior..it is about what you accept and tolerate...he can and will behave as he does...it is all about you and what you value and decided to tolerate in your world...

You asked him a question.
He threatened you... Has denied anything and after trying to talk he wouldn't admit to anything and said he would leave if I brought up subject again

Laid an ultimatum at your feet and YOU accepted it.

He lies because YOU tolerate living with a liar.

NOW his actions definately speak volumes about what he values and what he cares about...

And I for one would not live in a marriage without honesty....that is my choice...

For three years you have been living with this pain...
three years is a long time...but you can't force him to do or say anything...time for you to dig deep and decide if you can accept more of this...or if you have had enough...and make your plan from there....

I also got chills when I read your line... I understand the need for affairs and how they happen,

YIKES YIKES YIKES <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
I have yet to see the NEED for an affair...they serve no need but to hurt all parties involved...
the end result whether good or bad is never justified by such deceipt.

If YOU can't get past the lying...then time to decide what YOU are going to do about it....

ARK

I wonder the same thing. How can your spouse look at you straight in the face and calmly lie. I just can`t do it. For me, the lying part is worse than the offence. It makes you feel like you just don`t matter, like your invisible. It is the single most determental thing a person can do.

mariet,

I agree with you, the lying is the worst part. Affairs happen, it's an unfortunate part of relationships or the human psyche. But the lying was the worst because my W denied me the chance to make choices on our marriage based on the truth and I had to resort to snooping and other methods to find out what I could. I hated doing that, it turned my stomach, but I did what I had to.

sad dad

Sorry men, I was not intending to say all men lie and women never do, you are correct in that women are out there doing their share.As for other comments I agree with almost all of them and yet my husband has bent over backwards to be what I want, he always was considerate in so many ways we just didn't have alot of communication about our problem which was the lack of sex and we just went merrily on our way and actually thought it was a pretty good marriage without alot of sex. WeNEVER really fought and maybe we should have. We have a close family and I know he wants to be married and has said that,I to, am a different person now, more pleasant not always wanting more, I was sort of on the edge of being *****y ha. I want this marriage to work as believe me Im lucky this guy cleans up after himself, ha, he calles when late and just does everything wives would love and he did this before affair. I said I know and understand affairs because 20 yrs ago I had one more emotional than anything, my spouse justkept to himself to much and I needed to feel needed or something, I thought I would leave him but he was my biggest supporter at the time. He understood why I got involved and stood by me totally. No one could understand that but me. I do wonder now if maybe he was so helpful because at the time he was also involved?? Never know do we when they lie once what is real or not and thats major problem for me. so I lied also but my affair only lasted a few months and my spouse and I talked although not much as he didn't want to know anything really . He thought the guy was a nice guy, and he was.He divorced. I want this marriage as he is a good man and I know all about the dishonesty in marriage and you are all right, I see what it does to me and then one day I can move one and next day it eats at me that he won't share things with me.IF I had to bet I would bet its over but then I could be a fool also. confusing . Thanks for posting

Char..

Women lie and cheat just as much as Men do.

Char - women and men cheat equally. The point of your not trusting, is in you. Your husband seems to be doing most things after an affair is discovered to redeem himself.

I know of a woman that her husband had an affair, and she just couldn't get past the trust issue. She went into individual counseling. This was so helpful to her, and she had issues to deal with about trust. Maybe something to think about with your internal feelings.

I understand your opinion of trust, and your feelings. You feel alone, cause you can't confide in the one person you gave your body and soul to. You feel scared, like you are living with a alien. You have to be careful of every sentence you say, for fear of giving out information that you wish him to not hear. These are all sincere feelings, and are probably causing you great harm internally. I am not condemning you with your feelings. They are sincere.

Also, there needs to be sincere, radical honesty between the two of you. Are you honest with your husband, and maybe if you feel you can't, you two should try counseling together.

Many of us would of loved for our husbands to act as your husband is doing. But it didn't happen for many of us. If you feel this is not a sincere act on your husbands part, then I think you need individual or couple counseling. Just my opinion.

Chardondeere, and to all here. Please let up on Char about her header! She is only relating from her own pain and point of view. It's not a stab at all men! Get a grip guys!
Sheesh. Char, I,too, have a chronic liar in my H. Even my counselor said there are people who chronically lie just for the hell of it! They know they're lying most times, others they actually come to believe their own lies!
Even the counselor has a male friend who lies and lies about trivial things, makes up stories and keeps right on. All around him know he's lying, but they just tolerate it! GADS!
I am looking into a book someone recommended on cognitive therapy for help to change behavior.
My H agreed he'd read it and do any work sheets. But we'll see because he's promised to read many relationship books with me and has never finished even one!
I'd say if your H is doing things to try and reassure you, then you need to work gently with this issue. But it's an issue that needs to be settled!
My H's lying made me think more that he was trying to protect the OW and himself! This is what they allow us to deal with emotionally when they refuse to come clean.
Ask your counselor how to deal with this issue. Follow his/her advice if you think you can.
And no, there is absolutely no justification for an A ever! NONE!
BTW, my H said the reason he lied and didn't want to discuss it all with me is he didn't want to hurt me more than he already had. Of course,that just made me think worse thoughts about what else could hurt me more? His true feelings for her? Their sex? Secrets only cause more damage, because our imaginations are usually worse than the facts! To leave us with these thoughts running through our heads is true torture!
Again, guys, give Char a break. Must we always be politically correct here? it's supposed to be a safe place to come and vent when needed. Ask for help. Char is dealing with a lying man! So that is the only way she can address it.
Time to quit taking things personally and allow people freedom of speech. It's clear to me she's not addressing all the worlds male population. Just the lying scum bags most cheating men become when they're hidng something!And there are a lot of them out there. Both men and Women!
God bless you Char, I know how you feel. Validating your feelings is necessary in the healing process. Tell it like you feel.
I'll listen and not jump you for your honest feelings.
Let it out Char. And don't worry about the political correctness. There is enough to worry about dealing with all the crap you've gone through and still dealing with.
LouLou

yet my husband has bent over backwards to be what I want

He bends over backwards to appear to be what you want. People lie when reality does not match who they want another to think they are. He is lying so he can get away with doing anything he pleases.

He is lying because he can and not loose you. He knows you are going to stay no matter what he does, no matter how many times he lies. That is what you are teaching him. He is rewarded for lying.

When a person lies to another about their actions, they are basically saying "What I do is none of your business." People have always lied, expect is from a lier. The big question is really, why do those who are lied to keep accepting the lie and the lier? Why don't they just move on with their lives.

If your husband wants to have affairs and behave in ways that do not make you happy, then let him do it. Set him free. You just don't need to stay around for the abuse.

<small>[ March 08, 2003, 11:12 AM: Message edited by: zorweb ]</small>

One good way to handle a person who is lying when you have the facts in front on you is to tell them something like:

“I am not the fool/idiot you seem to think I am. I know that you had an affair. I have seen the evidence. You can choose to not acknowledge it, to deny it. Does not mean it does not happen. Since you refuse to talk about it, I will have to assume that it was as bad or worse than I can imagine. Why else would you not want to share the truth and help calm my fears.”

That way you have called him on it, he knows you are not going to gloss it over.

I did this with my H and his affairs. He denied, denied and denied until I repeated that to him a few times. He knew he was going to have to leave our home and I was filing for divorce because what I imagined was much worse then what really happened. (I made sure I told him the sordid details I was imagining and therefore believing”) To keep me from kicking him out he started telling me the truth.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I want this marriage as he is a good man and I know all about the dishonesty in marriage and you are all right, I see what it does to me and then one day I can move one and next day it eats at me that he won't share things with me.IF I had to bet I would bet its over but then I could be a fool also. confusing . Thanks for posting.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There is no place for lies in a committed relationship like marriage but how safe is the environment for him to be totally honest and open with you? I ask because many times we ignore that love busters on our part DO NOT make the marriage a safe environment to share all our thoughts and feelings.

I've said it before, and I'll keep saying it. As long as the lies/ deception/ refusal to come clean persist, then the affair still lives. When the WS continues to protect the affair by keeping the truth hidden, then the OP is being protected and the affair lives on.

Affairs are created in secrecy. Lieing protects the secrets. If it's not out in the open, it's still their affair.

And lieing requires so little character. It's MUCH easier than facing the truth. Every OP I confronted lied to me about the affairs. How it became PA's is a mystery to me. None of them had any balls!

Responding to your posts to me. Melody you are right and agree. Long time ago I printed alot of Harleys articles and sent to him when away on business trips etc for him to read. He doesn't responde to them. ARK, you are right I do tolerate it and it does slowly take away my self respect. He went to MC once at first when I confronted him but sat there and said hardly nothing at all and the MC let him just sit there while I talked. Was odd and got no help from MC except to be aware . Ha. I cried all the way home and can remember to this day how lonely I felt and so dissappointed in my husband. Would he go to MC , yes if I asked but he would sit there beside me and lie. He said, she said, he would say I hallucinated and imagined it all, it would be so painful again for me to see him lie so directly again. Even MC now says he probably won't change. MARIET, you are so right, the lie is so much more painful than the affair.Its detrimental to us as you said. SAD DAD, you snoop because you have no answers, its a self protective thing I think and believe me from what I have read we all need to keep check on cheating spoused who deny anything. He for years contacted and saw her , they had a plan. Just because I caught him doesn't mean there still isn't a plan. Thats the hurtful part for me . FAITH, I would rather have an inperfect husband than one I can't trust or believe in again. LADY, agree with your political correctness. I feel to that he has done more to protect her than me and he says he wants me and marriage, not to mention he says he loves me. ha ZORB, you are right, I reward him but somehow I know he knows my pain, thats why it hurts so much at times. In the best scenerio for me I would like to think that he got in a situation like I did, that I can understand that nice people make mistakes. He lied like most would do at first out of fear etc. Then it snowballed and after reading so many of my "lectures" about honesty and blah blah I think that was a mistake. I really bashed him and he was reading it. After awhile he is so beaten down by my opinion he has lied so long he can't change his story. He kept saying "you can't change the truth" ha Anyway that would be the easy thing for me to understand and forgive. The reality is there for me also. That if that is the case, after a while, 3yrs is a lot, I should wonder what type of spouse could do this for 3yrs and what kind of person would let pride, being ashamed etc come before accepting responsibility and being honest with his wife. Thats what always comes to haunt me. Given the chance do I believe he would see her, YES i do because he hasn't yet shown me any indication that he cares how I feel about all of this other than to tell me to shut-up about it . I will stay probably but I cannot be truly happy with him and going to settle for that. He has lost my respect least for now. No matter how he rationalized his lying, it is worse for me this way as I find myself drifting away emotionally from him and I really don't want it but I can't help it. I just can't depend on him to be there for me anymore. Sorry this got long.

LESS THAN I WAS, just read your post and boy are you right, never thought of it in that venue but you are absolutly right. The affair is ongoing for me and maybe for him is still is , as long as he has secrets and will not deal with it with me he still is connecting to that affair. When I hear things like that it makes me want to move on and find someone who will respect ME.