Hi Kily!

You snapped me out of it I think, thanks. The trip anywhere in the world is a good incentive for me to try and stick with this NC some more. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I believe I've now hit the no contact record by a few days...I don't think I've gone longer than 2 weeks without at least sending her an email. We HAVE gone this long without seeing each other or having a phone call, but not without exchanging an email. So I am now on a new "no contact" record pace now. Every day without it widens the gap even more.

I hope you're right about her possibly starting to come to me or chase me a little bit after a while. It's certainly possible. But it's also possible that she might learn to live without me or find it easier to let me go, too. I still believe that OM must be filling a lot of her needs for her not to be coming to me to talk further. But perhaps she's just playing a weird waiting game, see who "cracks" first and makes contact.

Thanks Kily, oh and by the way, I don't think you can lose this one, I mean W must EVENTUALLY contact me anyway, the question is only will it take another week or another month? But eventually, she's going to have to do something, if only just to initiate Dv proceedings.

ALS

<small>[ March 27, 2003, 09:31 AM: Message edited by: ALostSoul ]</small>

ALS-

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> . But it's also possible that she might learn to live without me or find it easier to let me go, too. I still believe that OM must be filling a lot of her needs for her not to be coming to me to talk further. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Nope. It will not happen this way. You just have to trust in the tools and in what Cerri has told you.

This might be true for the short term, but one thing I can assure you is that this concept is more of a fear on your part than what is based in reality. The fact that she is fence sitting in the first place tells me that she is fearful of losing your presence in her life. If she really found it that easy to let you go, you would already be in the divorce section of this forum....she hasn't dealt with her real feelings for you yet because they are too painful to face. How do you feel when you read these words? In your gut do you feel that this is correct? If you do, then you already KNEW the answer....you just wanted affirmation on your instinct. Start trusting that instinct and stop s econd guessing yourself.

Based on what you have presented to me and to this forum about your personality and the dynamics between the two of you, I can truthfully say that she will not be able to let go. Just be confident in who you are, and let go.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I mean W must EVENTUALLY contact me anyway, the question is only will it take another week or another month? But eventually, she's going to have to do something, if only just to initiate Dv proceedings. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Two parts to this one.
You saw exactly what i was trying to get you to see. She will call. You know this already. So why call her? The question is - WHY is she REALLY calling you? you know the answer to this too. I will not tell you what it is, you have to look inside and let the answer come to you.

second part:
JL hit on this in a thread to you. Why are you WAITING for her to determine the outcome of YOUR life? Become proactive and start MOVING in a direction. You arae a decent guy and deserve to be in the R that you want. Playing this waiting game is wasting time that you could be using towards recovery.

Trust in the tools......you are so close.

Kily,

Let me open up by saying this: If you're anywhere as good at predicting/understanding what my W is thinking as you are regarding what I am thinking, I think I'm going to be just fine. You are very good at interpreting and understanding through my posts what my current mindset is, that's for sure.

The fact that she is fence sitting in the first place tells me that she is fearful of losing your presence in her life. If she really found it that easy to let you go, you would already be in the divorce section of this forum.

You know, I would have challenged on that a while back, I was of the impression that, if she didn't have to pay so much to get a lawyer to file on her own, she would have by now. But since our last conversation where I basically told her to bring over the no-fault paperwork, she still hasn't budged. So, 2 weeks later, I am now fairly certain that she's not having an easy time letting me go, and that is good. Not to say it still might not happen, but at least she didn't rush over with that paperwork like I thought she might.

She hasn't dealt with her real feelings for you yet because they are too painful to face. How do you feel when you read these words? In your gut do you feel that this is correct? If you do, then you already KNEW the answer....you just wanted affirmation on your instinct. Start trusting that instinct and stop s econd guessing yourself.

I am trying to keep an open mind about any possibility. I like to think that the reason I'm not being pressured for this divorce now is because she isn't sure now. Though again, she might just be lazy, and know that it's easy to get it whenever she wants one now, so the pressure is off. There are many possibilities. Though I do think that the frontrunner is the fact that she isn't sure it's what she wants anymore.

Based on what you have presented to me and to this forum about your personality and the dynamics between the two of you, I can truthfully say that she will not be able to let go. Just be confident in who you are, and let go.

I hope this is true. I am as honest as I can be here at this forum. So what you read is the truth. I guess what I really wonder is if she WILL be able to let go of the past mistakes from our relationship. If she can do that and we can forge ahead from here, I think we'd have a great chance. Of course, OM is still standing in the way. As long as he is in the picture, that is still the first obstacle.

You saw exactly what i was trying to get you to see. She will call. You know this already. So why call her? The question is - WHY is she REALLY calling you? you know the answer to this too. I will not tell you what it is, you have to look inside and let the answer come to you.

Well, here we differ a little bit. Yes, she will eventually call, she HAS to because we have unfinished business. There is a lot of her stuff at the house still. I have a car registration for her. There might be divorce papers to discuss. These could all be reasons for her calling. She may call because she just wants to talk, but I have to be prepared that her next contact may be just to start wrapping up loose ends. You make it sound like the reason she would call would just be because she missed me and wanted to see me. I'd love for that to be the case, but it might not necessarily be true.

Why are you WAITING for her to determine the outcome of YOUR life? Become proactive and start MOVING in a direction. You arae a decent guy and deserve to be in the R that you want. Playing this waiting game is wasting time that you could be using towards recovery.

Well isn't that sort of what this Plan B/NC type stuff is? A waiting game? Waiting to see if your spouse comes back to you? I am definitely living my life, I'm not sitting around waiting for the M to be saved, waiting for her to return or to call. I have had plans practically every weekend and am booked up through May. I am constantly busy with something. I am still reading and learning about relationships.

I'm not sure exactly what you are suggesting there. Are you saying that I should stop wasting time and make a decision to leave the M if that's what I want, or demand she leave OM or leave? That seems rash. I think what I am doing now is all I can to save the M. When I grow weary of that, I will move on. But I still believe that it will be my W to initiate the Dv if it comes to that. Not that I want that, mind you, but I think it's important she knows she was the one who initiated it. I don't want to give up on her or on us like that.

Thanks for all your insight, Kily, you have been a great help here and I love your posts to me. I'm glad you think I'm close, I'll trust the tools and give this some more time.

ALS

<small>[ March 27, 2003, 01:17 PM: Message edited by: ALostSoul ]</small>

ALS-

3 things jumped out at me.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Well, here we differ a little bit. Yes, she will eventually call, she HAS to because we have unfinished business. There is a lot of her stuff at the house still. I have a car registration for her. There might be divorce papers to discuss. These could all be reasons for her calling. She may call because she just wants to talk, but I have to be prepared that her next contact may be just to start wrapping up loose ends. You make it sound like the reason she would call would just be because she missed me and wanted to see me. I'd love for that to be the case, but it might not necessarily be true.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">1. Her stuff is still at the house. why? I'll tell you why - she never intended on leaving permanently! My stuff is STILL at X's house. WS script to a TEE!

2. Why unfinished business - because she still NEEDSthose ties with you. Why do I say "needs"? Think about this. Are her things packed away at this point? If the answer tot thihs is "NO" then you know what I will suggest next. It will be a psychological pull on her if you do this. In her mind it will signal that you are ready to MOVE ON.

3. It''s good that you WANT to start wrapping up the loose ends.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I hope this is true. I am as honest as I can be here at this forum. So what you read is the truth. I guess what I really wonder is if she WILL be able to let go of the past mistakes from our relationship. If she can do that and we can forge ahead from here, I think we'd have a great chance. Of course, OM is still standing in the way. As long as he is in the picture, that is still the first obstacle. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He is NOT the first obsticle, it only appears that way. Her FEAR is the obstacle. If she is ready to face that, the rest will fall into place. I know this is hard to see, especially from where you are standing. She is using him as a sheild to protect her from facing what frustrated and hurt her so much that she had to run away.

Lastly, what I am suggesting is to take the POWER away from her by being decisive with what you want. You have PLAN A'd to the point where you are ready to move on no matter what the outcome. If this is absolutely true, then why not take the risk that Cerri and I feel is the right thing to do? You've already stated the possible outcomes that you perceive....what do you have to lose at this point other than the uncertainty of not having direction?

You sound so healthy and strong. I really want this to work for you. I'm glad that I can provide a WS point of view to help you figure things out.

I wish I had found this site prior to my depression.......

Hi again Kily. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Her stuff is still at the house. why? I'll tell you why - she never intended on leaving permanently! My stuff is STILL at X's house. WS script to a TEE!

Well she did take a lot of her stuff at the start, but now takes 1 or 2 small items with each visit...Ice cream scoop here, a cookbook there, etc. About 2 months ago, I packed up almost all of her things and put them in our storage room. I remember she was sad when she saw all that stuff there, she tried not to show it but I could tell. It's been there for 2 months and she hasn't taken any of the boxes. None of it is essential, in fact, a lot of it is stuff from our relationship, cards, files, gifts, etc...All her stuffed animals. I still do have a few of her things still lying about in the house and in the bedroom, I was considering packing all that up as well someday, sort of a final sign that I am ready to move on if she chooses. She still seems to like going back to the bedroom every once in a while to see if that stuff is still out and not packed away (my opinion anyway).

He is NOT the first obsticle, it only appears that way. Her FEAR is the obstacle. If she is ready to face that, the rest will fall into place. I know this is hard to see, especially from where you are standing. She is using him as a sheild to protect her from facing what frustrated and hurt her so much that she had to run away.

Actually I understand your thoughts on that precisely. She does carry a lot of fear and guilt, and I know she's still afraid of what she would face in coming home. From many angles, it's probably a lot scarier than staying where she is. Right now she can see trouble in her future, I know this, but that's far off for her. Coming home would mean immediately facing some things and that IS tough for her to grasp still, I feel. I think you have a really good point there.

Lastly, what I am suggesting is to take the POWER away from her by being decisive with what you want. You have PLAN A'd to the point where you are ready to move on no matter what the outcome. If this is absolutely true, then why not take the risk that Cerri and I feel is the right thing to do? You've already stated the possible outcomes that you perceive....what do you have to lose at this point other than the uncertainty of not having direction?

So are you again suggesting I send a Plan B letter, or just stay in NC? Right now, I think a PB letter should have come right after our last contact, not weeks later. So I'm, for the moment, content to stay here in NC and just wait. So if that's all you're saying, I do agree with that. I hate the uncertainty but it's better, at least for now, than knowing I am going to be divorced in XX days.

You sound so healthy and strong. I really want this to work for you. I'm glad that I can provide a WS point of view to help you figure things out.

Believe me, I appreciate it SO much, as I see a lot of the same rationale that my W used in some of your writings, so I'm hopeful that a lot of what you comprehend is similar to what my W currently feels. And thanks, I am feeling pretty healthy and strong these days. Probably in the best physical shape of my life right now, or close to it. Mentally, well, it comes and goes. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

ALS

So here are a couple thoughts for the day. No contact, day 15 by the way. Still strong.

If we, the ones who did not walk away/have the A, are getting better at no contact, and getting more used to life without our partners over time, who's to say that our spouses aren't also feeling the same way?

I know the general rule seems to state that not being in contact makes the spouse wake up and miss us more, but who's to say that it doesn't have the same effect on them that it has on us? What if being apart not only allows us to get over the other person, but allows them to get over us, too?

Another thought I had today was this - My W obviously is feeling guilt over what she did to me, for having the A, etc. Isn't it possible that coming home would only DOUBLE that guilt, not only because then she'd need to face what she did, but because, in a way, she'd be cheating AGAIN, this time on OM? So instead of being unfaithful once, she'd been unfaithful, in her mind, TWICE? Don't get me wrong, I don't see it that way, just playing devil's advocate. I guess the point I am making is that isn't it possible that sometimes the guilt is lessened by NOT coming home, and is only greater if they choose to come back and work on the M (for them)?

ALS

ALS-

Stop second guessing you W - you will just make yourself crazy!

Good for you - Daya 16? with NC. Look how strong you are...

I think your point on waiting for her to contact again is a good idea. I'm not trying to suey (sp) you either way in what to do. I'm just trying to get you to see that by not choosing, you are making a decision tot stay stuck. My concern in that is that resentment can build in you, and then when W decides to turn back, you will NO longer wish to. Your plan is okay. WAIT for her to contact you, play it cool, and see where she seems to be at. You can look at the data and make your decision then.

ALS I want to let you in on a WS's mindset. When a WS threatens divorce they GENERALLY are looking for the reaction form YOU. They want to know thtat you are devastated and needing them. They know that as long as you react ANGRILY, then they have a POWER over you. Once you don't react and are agreeable, their world starts to crash. They become more attentive, call more often, suggest getting together to re-establish their "claim" on you. (By now the BS should be in PLAN-B) If the "claim" is weakend enough - as your reaction to her latest request for D demonstrated) the WS goes into a tailspin because they NO longer can sit on a fence. A decision that they didn't want to make is being made for them and it's time to face what they have avoided the whole time...that they will lose their spouse.

She is not getting stronger psychologically, she is running away. It's only when they stop running and face the demons that this kind of strength in character can happen...

did you run? NO. You worked through your pain. What has she done?

Do you see my point? I hope so.

I'm proud if you. Keep up your spirits and update when you can.

ALS ... there's gold in thar words of Kily.

First, I do want to apologize to you. My last post wasn't intended to sound so curt. I was a little short on time and wanted to post and it came out that way: short. The posts that followed, from JL et al, expressed what I tried to say in my few words.

I agree with Kily that to even play devil's advocate is a futile exercize. In the words of Dr. Phil, it's wrong thinking. Dreaming up ways you'll fail sounds to me like a plan for failure. Even if you don't believe them, the thinking is counter-productive.

I'm under the assumption that you're an athletic guy who has participated in some kind of sport. As you probably know, the last thing you can do when working out or playing basketball is to think about what you body's next move will be. It's unsafe, overly mechanical and isn't going to put in a position to win. On the other hand, if your body is trained to "do," the thinking part isn't necessary. Don't think. Just do. Same thing with this. Don't think. Just do.

Remember that human behavior is quite predictable. Smokers who are trying to quit who also alter their behavior are more successful at quitting than those who don't. AA is the same way. The MB principles are sound because they were developed, in part, by studying human behavior. Sure, humans are dynamic creatures and can respond to stimuli in any number of ways. But more often than not, if you do X then Y will happen.

This really cuts to the root of the frustration I was trying to express. You've devised these possible cases that could occur: do nothing and E or F might happen; go to Plan B and E or F might happen. You came up with the same result with two different equations. More often than not, you seem to believe that your efforts, based on your wife's current headstate, will fail at worst (and be a very long road back at best). So when the time comes, why not go down swinging? Plan B is an extremely proactive tool. It's not always successful, but it does re-establish your boundaries in ways they take notice.

I'm not telling you to go to PB. That, my friend, is your decision. Don't think. Just do.

Hello again Kily!

Your words truly amaze me, the way you express things just makes so much sense and truly convinces me that you know exactly what my W is feeling and experiencing right now.

I think your point on waiting for her to contact again is a good idea. I'm not trying to sway you either way in what to do. I'm just trying to get you to see that by not choosing, you are making a decision tot stay stuck. My concern in that is that resentment can build in you, and then when W decides to turn back, you will NO longer wish to. Your plan is okay. WAIT for her to contact you, play it cool, and see where she seems to be at. You can look at the data and make your decision then.

You are right. And I think that is why Cerri is urging me to go to PB as soon as I can. I think she can sense not so much resentment, but contentment from me. It's true, I do feel more content with the idea that my marriage might not make it than I have in the past. So waiting forever, without taking a stance, is bad. And I am getting to the point now where I'm going to HAVE to do something soon. It's been 2 1/2 weeks since my W told me she MUST have this divorce as soon as possible, to her suddenly forgetting about it and not even bringing me the paperwork I agreed I would sign.

Now I'm going to quote this whole next paragraph because it's fantastic:

ALS I want to let you in on a WS's mindset. When a WS threatens divorce they GENERALLY are looking for the reaction form YOU. They want to know thtat you are devastated and needing them. They know that as long as you react ANGRILY, then they have a POWER over you. Once you don't react and are agreeable, their world starts to crash. They become more attentive, call more often, suggest getting together to re-establish their "claim" on you. (By now the BS should be in PLAN-B) If the "claim" is weakend enough - as your reaction to her latest request for D demonstrated) the WS goes into a tailspin because they NO longer can sit on a fence. A decision that they didn't want to make is being made for them and it's time to face what they have avoided the whole time...that they will lose their spouse.

I think this is the feeling I have had since this talk W and I had, and the reason that it's been so tough to rush into PB. For the first time since D-Day, something feels different. The reality has set in and suddenly she is stalling. Of course, the one part of that statement that hasn't happened for me is that she hasn't called or tried to re-establish a claim on me at all. She's been just as silent to me as I have to her. As if she may be waiting for me to make the next move. I'm not sure. It's strange. Perhaps she feels that the by the next time she contacts me, she wants to have a decision made. Divorce or try and work on the M. I'm not sure. If that's what she's feeling now, I could certainly understand it may take her some time to come to a conclusion. It's also the reason that I worry a PB letter might anger her enough to NOT consider the M anymore. Hence why I want to write it very carefully.

She is not getting stronger psychologically, she is running away. It's only when they stop running and face the demons that this kind of strength in character can happen...did you run? NO. You worked through your pain. What has she done?

Right, and she even made this point. She told me that she was using OM as a crutch and that I was stronger because I was working through all this on my own. I can say I have changed, and mean it and know it's true. She tells me she is changing too, but I don't sense it. To me, a change would be for her to come home and face this and work though it with me, not to continue on running and ignoring the problem.

Thank you, Kily! You are wonderful.

Hi Whippit! Thanks for coming back!

No apologies needed, man, ever. You give it to me straight and I like that. Never apologize for that.

Dreaming up ways you'll fail sounds to me like a plan for failure. Even if you don't believe them, the thinking is counter-productive.

It's still a bad vice of mine right now, I try and stop doing it but my brain goes crazy with scenarios. I try and control it as best I can. I just wanted to be honest with my thoughts here, I feel it allows everyone to help me better. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Don't think. Just do. Same thing with this. Don't think. Just do.

I've been doing more of that lately, actually, doing just what feels right without overthinking it. Not sure if it's making a difference, but I have been feeling better lately.

You've devised these possible cases that could occur: do nothing and E or F might happen; go to Plan B and E or F might happen. You came up with the same result with two different equations. More often than not, you seem to believe that your efforts, based on your wife's current headstate, will fail at worst (and be a very long road back at best). So when the time comes, why not go down swinging? Plan B is an extremely proactive tool. It's not always successful, but it does re-establish your boundaries in ways they take notice.

There's no question in my mind that PB will happen. The only matter is, will it happen with a letter, and if so, will that letter even make sense given the situation. For example, if I've already signed dv papers, a letter might not make sense.

I guess in a way, our conversation 2 weeks ago could have been a PB conversation. I told her I still cared for her, missed her, wanted to save the M. No, I didn't set a boundary, give an ultimatum, OM or me, or tell her I don't want to speak with her until her A ends. Perhaps I need to do this just to take a firm stand. But I am almost positive it will anger my W to the point of wanting Dv even more. She will see it as stubbornness, especially if she was hoping we might talk more to try and work things out. The PB letter could be the nail in the coffin to my M. It's just how my W has been taking my letters like that so far. She does not react well to the plans.

So, whippit, I guess in short right now the reason I've done nothing but stay in NC is because it's what my heart is telling me to do right now. I'm just doing it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Not much to report on my end, I've actually been feeling better than ever about myself, keeping extremely busy and just, generally happy. To think at one point I was considering anti-depressants. I'm glad I never went there. I am happy to say that I was able to work though this all on my own, and I'm feeling great for it. I feel good about myself. I am strong and healthy.

Of course, I still miss my wife and would love to have her back. In believe in us and I believe in our marriage. More and more each day though, I feel a lot less needy. I'm more able to say that I WANT the marriage but that I don't NEED the marriage. And I've also gotten myself to the point where if I were to get divorced, I would be at complete peace with myself knowing that I gave this all that I could.

Plan B is coming either this week or next, that's for sure. I just want to get the words for the letter (which I will e-mail) perfect, as well as give my W a few more days to contact me. 17 days without any contact at all is certainly a new record for me. I have a busy week ahead and weekend plans, but after that things should calm down a bit more me, and allow me to focus on my next steps.

Thanks Kily and Whippit for checking in with me on the weekend! Look forward to hearing more. As always, I'll be here to post often, and especially if anything happens.

ALS

<small>[ March 30, 2003, 09:49 PM: Message edited by: ALostSoul ]</small>

Alright, decided to rename my thread since I'm going to try and keep this one going a while longer yet before switching to a new one.

So, here's where I stand today.

It's day 18 with NO CONTACT. The record continues to grow.

The only problem is that, basically, I don't feel like NC is really doing any good. I feel pretty good, but not any more so than I would if I weren't in NC either. I don't feel very empowered or anything, nor do I feel like I'd be any more empowered to take an official Plan B stance and tell my W I am not speaking with her unless the A ends.

So, it's been almost 3 weeks since the conversation that started this thread. 3 weeks since my W told me that she REALLY wanted a divorce and I agreed to reluctantly sign those papers. So, where the heck ARE the papers?

Now, that's not saying I want the papers, on the contrary, but why still has she not taken the steps to get them to me? So many possibilities, both good and bad. No way I can really know that.

But anyway, what do I do next? Well I have a couple options. The way I see it, though, I do need to get the car registration to her before the end of April. So if I wanted, I could wait this NC out for a few more weeks, she'll need to contact me before that at least to get the registration info. But I don't see how another 3 weeks in NC is going to make a difference, really, so I am likely just going to send her a very short email this week, letting her know the regisration is here, and that's it.

Perhaps she'll want to come over, get it, and leave, or come over and talk, or come over and switch me registration for Dv papers. I'm not sure. But at least it gives me an opportunity to test the waters and see where we stand.

What do you all think of that?

Most likely, the next step after that would be the PB letter. Many of you (Cerri included) feel it's something that needs to be done. My fear remains that the PB letter will be an immediate catalyst for her to start the Dv. And if so, I will sign. But of course, then PB is broken since I'd be seeing her days after it started to sign the paperwork. Not to mention, even IF PB starts up and we remain out of contact, I will need to at least see her in a couple of months for car insurance and to sign the title over to her. Though that would not be until June. So there's time.

Anyway, I still remain a bit uncertain, my opinions change on an hourly basis. I do believe I will make contact this week just to let her know about the registration. Though I could give it a few more weeks, I'm starting to question what good that will do.

Ideas, thoughts?

ALS

ALS

I really think that you should seriously consider going to Plan B ASAP. Why? well take a look over at my thread (Ongoing Saga of Polar Boy) and see what happens when you don't. I am really wishing that I had done it.

I realise that I haven't chimed in on your posts before but I have been following them closely as we got into this mess about the same time. I think you have gotten some great advice and that if you delay you may end up in my boat wishing you hadn't and that you could erase that "last" conversation from your mind.

PB

ALS, ALS,

What are we going to do with you??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

You are worried that Plan B will be a catlyst for her making a decision. So let's look at the odds. If she sits on the fence, you lose: your love for her, your marriage, and of course her. If you PB, then she must make a decision: one answer is you lose as above, the other it that you get a shot at recovery.

So let's see, no action results in loss. 50% chance of a GOOD result if you do something like PB. I'm thinkin that PB gives you your best odds.

Now, several have commented on your endless series of scenarios most of which turn out bad. It reminds of something a Senator once said about scientists. He really wanted to meet a one armed scientist because all of those he had met usually said "on the other hand". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

You also said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Not much to report on my end, I've actually been feeling better than ever about myself, keeping extremely busy and just, generally happy. To think at one point I was considering anti-depressants. I'm glad I never went there. I am happy to say that I was able to work though this all on my own, and I'm feeling great for it. I feel good about myself. I am strong and healthy. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So you see that your cannot lose with PB. You already feel better, more centered, more confident with NC. You are doing better, I would bet that she is NOT.

Kily, I think is right on target as is Cerri. You do realize that Cerri has been the WS AND the BS. So she does know a thing or two about all of this.

From everything I have read and seen on this site PB usually drives the WS away for about a month, then reality starts to hit. As Kily said, she has to make a decision she very obviously has been trying to avoid OR you might make it for her. Why? Because the letter is a statement. It is a love letter, but it also means you have reared up on your hind legs and declared that you can see your way not to be dependent on her. It is NOT a threat, it is a statement that you can indeed do this thing called life on your OWN.

You are in NC now. It is working for you. It is working for you better than dealing with her sitting on the fence. If you won't send her the PB letter, at least send her the car registration. Just send it no comments nothing.

Please carefully consider Kily's and Cerri's advice. Cerri knows you situation better than any of us, she is trained, and she has been there done that. Kily's posts speak for themselves. She knows what she is talking about and it makes sense.

ALS, what you haven't figured out yet, is; You cannot lose. You really cannot. She can lose big time but you cannot. You either move on knowing you did your best and knowing that the marriage was seriously flawed and you did your best. Or she decides to come back and rebuild the marriage, into something you BOTH would like.

She on the other hand (don't you love two hands waving? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ), will carry the guilt of what she did for the rest of her life, unless she makes the effort. Her OM is unlikely to be the love of her life, after all he is helping her cheat. Statistically, if they marry it is highly unlikely it will last. Do you see an upside to her situation? I don't. That is why Kily and Cerri are suggesting that you do PB.

You my need to start to realize that you are going to succeed no matter what she does. You are going to be happy with yourself, and with someone in the future because you have learned, grown, and tried your heart out. Time to look at the upside here.

You either lose a W that isn't particularly faithful. Or you gain a W that sees the light and is willing to make herself into someone you can really love and trust. Why? Because you have been willing to do the work for her to come back.

So keep up the NC. Don't be so afraid to take a stand, and really really think about what Kily and Cerri are telling you.

God Bless,

JL

I got the impression that she doesn't really want a D, she's just trying to convince herself she wants a D or is using threat of D as manipulation. I am reading Dr. Harley's book 'Surviving An Affair', where he sites a case history similar to this one. The WW wife moved in with OM, he got sick of her whining and complaining, had A with another *unmarried* woman, and left her. She saw the light and was reconciled with her H.

I would Plan B, let OM sit with her a while, dump her *first* (security blanket, indeed), and let reality sink in for awhile. Don't pay for a divorce you don't want, or anything else for that matter. Play passive aggressive like she is, tell her to let OM pay for D if she wants it so bad. Let her know she can't have it all.

Prayers for both of you that she will come around.

Blessings!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">... nor do I feel like I'd be any more empowered to take an official Plan B stance and tell my W I am not speaking with her unless the A ends. ... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How do you know? You haven't done it yet.

(Golf clap for JL, btw. Like Tiger Woods at the Masters.)

ALS-

You are looking for excuses to contact. NC!!!! Simple.

Send the registration and a Plan-B letter! Take Your life back. Trust in the tools - You will be amazed with how they work!!!

Be good to yourself and have some confidence...

The difference between her NC and your Plan B is that with her NC, it is SHE who gets to decide when and if she talks to you, but with your Plan B it is YOU who gets to decide when and if you talk to her. Her NC is NOT for the purpose of ending her A and rebuilding the M, but your Plan B IS.

I remember that sometime ago, someone said that Plan A is not meant to become a lifestyle. You might want to ask Cerri if that is the case.

I thank you all very much for your replies! I'm going to reply back in more detail later today, I'm on a really short timeframe right now today, but I just wanted to throw something out at y'all that might get me slammed even more. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I know someone who is currently counseling with Steve Harley. His situation is incredibly similar to mine, he has a fairly recent marriage, no kids, and his wife moved out around the same time that mine did.

At any rate, here's the interesting part -- Steve Harley told him just this week that in situations like ours, with no kids or other hooks to keep a couple together, Plan B almost NEVER works, and that he hardly ever recommends it in these situations. He told him the "absence makes the heart grow fonder" strategy in this types of situations never works, when there is nothing left to hold the M together. He told him that the key was to maintain contact as much as possible to remain in the minds of our W's as much as possible.

Anyway, I'm not at all ignoring what you all said, you made some great points which I will address later, I just want you to see that SH sees things the way I am seeing them right now, and wondering what everyone might think about that...

ALS

All right mr smarty pants, get ready to get your fanny whipped by my kangaroo hide bullwhip.

If you are going to be following SH's advise to another MB poster, then WHY are you then wasting Cerri's time?

Alright, I just wanted to check in REALLY quick to give an update. I took a week off from MB, I just needed to get away and clear my head for a little while, sometimes I can get too wrapped up in everything if I spend too much time here.

Anyway, Thursday was 3 weeks with NC, strict NC, I hadn't even sent an email to W. Well, Thursday night she called. So I felt pretty good, it was nice to hear from her and nice that she had to come to me with the contact, I stuck it out and I didn't crack!

I also suspect she might have read on my website (she reads it daily, she says) that I was going into NYC for the weekend, and I think she was curious to know what I was up to. She told me she was calling me to tell me about the new kitten she bought, but I also suspect she just wanted to talk. We talked about an hour, and it was good and upbeat. I told her I had her car registration and she asked if she could come pick it up this week sometime.

Strangely enough, no mention at all of the Dv she wanted so bad 3 weeks ago. So we'll see. Cerri said (and I agree) that if I am not building resentment I can see where this goes, but I should be careful, because if this sitch just stays the same, I may eventually grow tired and resent her for not taking action and just give up on my own.

I still want to respond to some earlier posts, but it's late, hope to do that tomorrow. There's some great stuff in the past few posts of this thread.

Anyway, for now, I'm claiming a small victory. It felt good talking to W, I just got a good vibe out of it, definitely felt like a peek out of the fog.

More later!

ALS

ALS:

I honestly hope you're right. But it's hard to know. Just be careful, okay? Keep those hopes and expectations in check.

-Qfwfq