I've almost finished reading SAA now. I consider myself to be fortunate right now, as I'm moving up to live with WS for his first shore duty since we had our son. We will have 4 years to work on things while living in the same home. This is in contrast to the last five years which consisted primarily of visits ranging from 1 to 6 weeks. But to be honest, I don't think it's humanly possible to have a good marriage by the book's guidelines and have one or more members deployed. "Rule of Time" being a major impossibility. And those of you who are military or a military spouse know that the subject of infidelity isn't generally raised. I remember safety briefings before holiday weekends, generally consisting of "If you drink don't drive, if you drive don't drink, if you have sex make sure it's safe sex." Wish they'd amend that to "sex with your wife/husband". WS said that the As wouldn't have happened if he hadn't been gone all the time. I don't think it excuses the behavoir, but I do think it's impossible to meet each other's ENs when you spend 6 months to a year apart. Frequently. Does anyone out there know of a board somewhere that specifically discusses the issues of infidelity in the military? I've noticed several other posts by people in similar situations. I am former active duty and a reservist myself, so I have an enormous belief in our military and what we do. I fully support it. But there are days when I get really p***ed off about what it does to families. It seems that most of my friends who have marriages or "monogamous" relationships with military members end up being betrayed or betrayers. In my case, we'd pretty much slipped into roles of him as adviser and breadwinner, me as supporter and caretaker. Am I just in one of my black holes of despair today? Even if you awesome people don't have any good advice today, I'm also shamelessly asking for someone to say something nice to me. Even if you don't mean it. Please? I've only been awake a few hours and it's already turning into a bleak and hopeless day.

I'm not a Marine, but Semper Fi

Dobie,
I feel for you, being a Navy Wife must be one of the most difficult things in the world. As a former Marine I know very well about deployments and how much stress the military lifestyle places on a family. Having been out for a year and a half now I'm amazed at how our marriage survived the long deployments, but fell apart once I got out.

The military is still trying to figure out where exactly the family fits in to their scheme of things. Believe me when I say that it IS getting better. When I first enlisted in the Marine Corps I was belittled, threatened and... well we'll just leave it at that. All because I got married while I was home on leave. This was to my Jr. High Sweetheart to whom I'd been dating for nearly 6 years, and already had a child with. Today's military is MUCH more family oriented than they used to be. Now, with that being said, they have a LONG way to go!

Maybe I can give you a little help with mindset. When your husband deploys he feels like he's been abandoned, he has nobody, no one calls him, letters come more and more infrequently, he feels completely alone and helpless. He is looking at you having everything, you have the children, you have the house, you have your family supporting you, his family supporting you, your friends, etc., etc, etc... What he probably doesn't realize (I never did) is that you feel THE SAME WAY! Chances are he doesn't realize this, and can't really see it from your point of view right now. It took me a long time.

You are strong to stand by your spouse, you are strong to be a military spouse, you are a strong part of our Nation and it's defense. You said you have taken on the "support" role. Yes, you are correct, YOU are part of the most important SUPPORT MISSION our Nation faces right now. Be strong, seek counseling and post here when you need to. It will get harder before it gets easier, but know that YOU will make it!

Semper Fidelis

Good mornin Dobie(my daughter has a stuffed animal named that)
MLW and I are both AD Air Force. We have been lucky that we have not been separated too much, though I did spend a year in Korea. The military makes it tough to establish any kind of normalcy to your life. Deployments, wars and exercises keep some folks pretty busy. And since your husband is a Marine he is probably subject to a lot more traveling that most.

I don't know of any board specifically for military but this post might attract some responses. I am glad you guys get a chance to be "together" for a while now.

There are not really any excuses for the A themselves but there are usually reasons on both sides that set the table to make on spouse vunerable.

The good thing about being in a hole is that it keeps you looking up. When are you guys PSC'ing. Soon?
Have you been to IC? That helped me immeasurebly.

Good stuff from TM. The AF might be a little farther ahead of the rest of the services in regards to family. Mostly due to the nature of it's mission. But there has been a big change in things in the 13 years that I have been in. Happy soldiers, marines, airmen and seamen make better for better troops. Having a support network for bothe the deployed member and their spouse takes a lot of the worry out of our minds.

Good luck and God Bless
In His Grip…

doug

<small>[ March 18, 2003, 09:05 AM: Message edited by: d_rose ]</small>

He reported to new duty station 2 1/2 weeks ago. Spent just enough time at home for me to confront him about As and agree to work out our marriage. We did spend some fun times together. Agreed to MC and dating once we're together. (I suppressed that trigger, as he's had more dates with OW than with me over last 5 years) I am packing up the house and getting ready to move at end of April. I'm the first to admit that the emails over the last five years have slowed down for both of us. We both felt like we'd run out of things to say. He was home for a month last December and treated me horribly. Told me he didn't love me anymore, that he wished he didn't have to come home for a month between the med cruise and a one year remote assignment. Told me he wanted to turn one year assignment into two. (I didn't know why at the time, was blindsided. Now I understand about the fog.) So in Feb when I found out about the A (she called me), I didn't have the nerve to confront him. I was afraid he wouldn't ever come home if I did. I basically spent a year wondering if I'd ever have a working marriage and pretending everything was fine. Had some friends going over there and asked them to keep tabs on him. Found out he'd told EVERYONE that he was divorced and had one or more affairs while he was there. (He only confessed to one.) I'm still aware of lies he told me when I confronted him about them and wishing he'd tell the truth. Wish I'd gone to IC during the last year, but between work, child, reserve duty, and everything else I never found the time. Just wallowed in a pit of despair. Then he told me that if I'd told him about the 1st A, he wouldn't have had another one. AAARRGGG!!! That still makes no sense to me.

D & TM, thank you both for the words of support. I truly do believe that if we both work on this, we can have a great future some day. We've both made a LOT of mistakes and drifted away, and I realize that there's a lot of hard work ahead of us. I also hope for a lot of love and fun.

I did have a better day recently. Sent him a list of about 50-60 things I love about him. He says he was awed and humbled. Would it be too soon to hint that I'd like something similar in return?

Semper Gumby

Dobie,
If he has agreed to MC then that's a great start in the right direction. As you know affairs in the military are looked at by many as "just the way it is". "What happens TAD stays TAD", "When you cross a body of water you are no longer married", etc, etc, etc.

The first step was to get him to commit to some kind of recovery, which it sounds like he has. Don't expect him to turn over a new leaf over night, it won't happen. Being separated from your spouse for so long at a time is very hard on both of you. Now you have an opportunity to rebuild your marriage and make it the relationship that both of you wanted in the beginning.

I would start with filling out the EN's questioneer, and see if he will do the same. That will give you an idea of what his needs are, and give him an idea of what yours are. Have you read His Needs/Her Needs yet? It's a good book and will also give you a foundation to build from.

What branch of service is he in? Originally I thought Navy because you said "Shore Duty". Believe it or not all services have different views on family, EMR's, etc. "Semper Gumby" is exactly right... Remember that!

<small>[ March 19, 2003, 08:22 AM: Message edited by: TM94 ]</small>

He's Navy. I've done a lot of thinking the last few days. The part that really hit me was when I realized how angry I've been all these years. I've always felt like I placed last. I get all the problems dumped on me when he's gone and I have to deal with them. It's a well known rule that when the husband is out to sea, everything breaks down. It's kind of a relief to at least acknowledge the anger to myself. I'm typically the sort of person who represses that stuff. It just hasn't seemed fair. I sent packages to him, dealt with everything on this end, etc. If he needed anything, I got it to him. Frequently late, but it got there. On the other hand, I never got birthday stuff, anniversary cards, Xmas presents, etc. I'm not exaggerating. He did send me V-day flowers last year for the first time. He sent the OW more. The year of his 1st A, he never even acknowledged when I turned 30. I should have realized that this was a VERY bad sign, but I was too busy dealing with life and convincing myself that everything would be OK. Why wouldn't he love me? My whole universe consisted of giving him whatever support I could and taking care of the homefront. And I convinced myself that it was shallow to want things like gifts. The irony is that I thought he had more important stuff to worry about. I didn't have a clue that OW were the "important stuff" on his mind.

Note to self: Do NOT call him tonight or you'll end up slashing him to ribbons.

Dobie,
Wow, this is really hitting home. My wife is now telling me she felt the EXACT same way that you just described. I wish I could give you some type of magical advise that would fix everything, but unfortunately I don't have that. The best advise I can give is that you need to get into some type of counseling and begin to work through this. It will be hard, things will get worse before they get better. Your anger may not subside until you see changes in him. My wife is now starting to show signs of improvement since I have changed so much. Granted, she's still talking about leaving, but for now she's still here. God Bless.

TM,

I emailed him this morning and told him it wouldn't be a good day to call, as I'm not having a good day. We've been talking about having some sort of barometer so he has a clue right from the start as to whether I'm having a good day or a bad one. As he's away, I don't think unloading on him right now is fair. But he called. And he invited me to tell him what's wrong. I tried to resist. He asked again. I burst into tears and told him how I felt like I'd been taking "last place" over the last five years. Cried about all the things I posted earlier. I did acknowledge that I'd been avoiding the belief that he was drifting away, and that he couldn't know how each time was a slap in the face to me because I didn't tell him. I accept that I had a part in our problems. He thought about it, agreed that it was true, apologized, and said "This is why we need to have better communication." I almost fell over, as he is a world class conflict avoider. Generally, I think he'd rather be neutered than bare his soul and talk about our feelings. But it does feel like progress, as I finally feel safe enough to talk to him about these things without fearing that he'll withdraw or blow up at me. He said he has a lot to make up for with our son and I. And expressed his belief that with work, we can make a good marriage together. So I'm feeling much better, but he feels worse. Was it a LB? Probably. Did I need to get it off my chest before I went nuts? Absolutely. Was his answer nearly perfect? Yes.

My secret fantasy is that he'll send me flowers or a loving email soon. I'm still in the mode of wanting him to do things for me voluntarily, instead of because I asked. (It will take a while to break that habit after all these years.) I have given up on the belief that if I do these sorts of thing for him, he'll return the favor. So if you haven't sent her flowers or written a love letter in a while, that's my advice. Pick a flower if you have any in bloom. Make a special trip to the store to buy her favorite candy. Just some nice surprise. Because you love her and appreciate her. He did say that he feels he doesn't deserve me. And you know we love to hear that, particularly when we suspect it might be true. The man he was five years ago deserved me, the man he is turning back into deserves me, but the one who has been neglecting and betraying me didn't.

It's been a cathartic day. Can't wait til my DS is in bed tonight so I can have a long bath and a glass of wine. Play some Beethoven. And take care of me.

Dobie,
The fact that he called after you told him you were having a bad day shows me that he cares. He took the time to call you when he KNEW you were having a bad day, and he helped. I know what you mean about wanting flowers or an e-mail. Yes, I may be a guy, but I still desire the affection that my wife doesn&#8217;t show. I used to be like your husband; I never sent flowers, cards, etc. Now I do more often, not as often as I would like, but I do. I wouldn&#8217;t worry about the LB, someone once told me that if it&#8217;s the truth, if it&#8217;s how you feel, and they persist in wanting to know what&#8217;s wrong then it&#8217;s not a LB. A LB is when you respond out of anger, hate, resentment, etc. Don&#8217;t take that as Gospel, I&#8217;m not a MB expert, but that&#8217;s the advice I&#8217;ve been given.

I hope your bath and wine went well last night. I know what lonely nights are like, and I hope you find some sort of comfort. For now, be happy he&#8217;s trying and putting forth an effort. But, be prepared for him to &#8220;backslide&#8221; and have slip ups. If he&#8217;s been this way for that long he cannot change overnight. He will begin to doubt himself and the person he&#8217;s turning back into, this will more than likely scare him. I know it&#8217;s scaring the Hell out of me! I&#8217;ve never felt this calm, peaceful and just plain lethargic to the world (not in a bad way though). It scares me, and I find myself wanting to return to the old hateful, cold me. But, I turn here and find strength and determination when I need it. If your husband doesn&#8217;t have a support structure to fall back on then he may drop a little further behind.

Sorry, don&#8217;t mean to end on a bad note; I just want you to know what may be ahead of you. I really do see promise in your situation, your husband is trying and that&#8217;s more than I can say for my wife.

TM,

Yes, I did take it as a sign that he cares. Then he sent me a really nice email afterwards. I called him last night to thank him and we talked about other things last night for a while.

I didn't end up having my bath and wine. First I fielded about a half dozen calls from anxious friends and family about the war starting. Then I got into a long tactical debate with one of my old USMC friends as we watched CNN.

I been worrying about his lack of a support structure a lot. I've shielded his friends and family from the As. He has an uncle that he visits on the weekends, but I doubt he's told him about it. The only friends he had that knew about it were the ones who encouraged it on his ship. NOT the sort of support he needs right now.

I seem to have developed a pattern. 3-4 days of sending him loving, encouraging emails about our future. Then one day of breaking down. Heck, I'm loving and supportive at least 75% of the time and needy the other 25%. Guess I'm not doing that bad.

Thanks for warning me about him backsliding. At least I'll know enough to recognize it when it happens.

Best of luck to you in your situation. Keep on trying. It's hard to stay mad at someone who shows you nothing but love.

Semper Harley!

Dobie,
LOL... Well, at least I know I'm not the only old Jar Head sitting around discussing tactics.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I seem to have developed a pattern. 3-4 days of sending him loving, encouraging emails about our future. Then one day of breaking down. Heck, I'm loving and supportive at least 75% of the time and needy the other 25%. Guess I'm not doing that bad. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">From my experience this is also normal. I still have these days as well, but they are becoming fewer and further between. At first it was a day on day off thing, then it was every few days, then once a week. Now it's maybe every couple of weeks, sometimes once a week. Just do the best you can do, afterall you can't be happy all of the time when if feels as if your life is falling apart. Have patience and keep plugging forward, you will make it.

I'm having a Stewart Smalley day. Remember him from SNL?

"I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and doggone it, people like me."

"Today was a bad day. But that's ok. Because only the mediocre are always at their best."

Shane

Nope, sorry to say I don't remember Stewart Smalley, not a big SNL fan. I was always out doing more constructive things with my time like raising hell and.... well, you get the idea.

Keep your chin up, it will get better!!
Tim