My h thinks that I would be better off at home where I will have the support of my family. I have no family here and no friends. I would basically be all alone in my own place, just waiting for a phone call. This is his reasoning. I have suggested numerous possibilities to him and he has told me that he could not decide with me still in this state because he would not feel that I was really gone out of his life. I am also tired of the confussion. I have even suggested that I stay at his mothers, grannies or rent a room. I have told him that it would be harder to move back should he and I decide that we would like to try again, if I move that far. To him, it is not a big problem. I followed him up here when we moved, but I have to make the 3000 mile trip home by myself. I have not traveled any by myself before. I am afraid that this is going to make me very bitter about the whole situation. Maybe his coolness about it all is making me want it less. See, now I am feeling unsure, because this is not what I would do to him. At one point in our discussions I brought up that we could try to be better friends and lovers to see if that would help us. He told me that we were not friends. Now he wants to remain my friend. What the @@@@ is that about? We are not fighting and we still do some things together. I am not crying anymore or begging to stay. That does me no good. I feel I have no choices. He says this is the only way and if I can't handle it then we will decide now that it is over, so I am agreeing. It is creeping up in my head that maybe I should go and really see if I can get over him. I don't know what else to do.

gone,
I don't see how he can force you to move out?

Nor can he control if you stay in the area.

Why don't you have any friends? Haven't you met anyone since you've moved? No socials? Church? It doesn't sound like you work...volunteering is a way to meet people.

His forcing you to move 3000 miles away doesn't seem reasonable.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He says this is the only way and if I can't handle it then we will decide now that it is over </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Who is "we"? If you don't want it to be over? He can start divorce proceedings, but if you don't want it you still can use all the time the legal proceedings give you to forestall.

I know these are a lot of questions, but his behavior doesn't sound right for someone whose main reason to spend some time apart is to pull themself together. He's likely got some other reason, maybe not an OW, but something is amiss.

gonetofar,

Could you give us detail on his recent behavior ? beside cold and warm ?. Does he working on M ? such as seeing counselor or enrich himself with R books ?.

You are also saying that you have to go alone, how about your kids ? Who take care of them ?.

I am suggesting for you to try to stay but if he has the kids ... you still could plan A from far. How big of LB if you stay ?

-rh-

redhat,
we do not have any chidren together. I have 3 grown kids. He has none and doesn't want any. You are right, he cannot force me to leave, but I can't stand to see him suffering. He is most of the time very pleasant to me. For instance, yesterday, we went to the tanning bed together, last nite we sat and had a few drinks and listened to music. He laughs with me, plays with the dog and looks to see if I am watching him. Strange in my opinion. Cause I stopped begging him and more or less accept to go, things seem calmer today. He doesn't hate me, just wants time to see if the marriage is over by being away from it. I don't see how my refusing to go will help anything. Maybe I am wrong but the thought of it seems to make him very upset. we have been married 4 1\2 years. obtw, I suggest going to talk to someone, but he refuses, says it will not help him. He want read anything either, or come here to read posts. Says that he has done everything he can to get those feelings back without success. How can you try so hard and make a person believe you want it when you don't have those feelings? Makes no sense to me. I feel if those feelings were gone, you couldn't have acted so loving and wanting at all. Any thoughts about that? Thank you for listening and talking to me about this. I clearly need the help.

<small>[ March 23, 2003, 12:57 PM: Message edited by: gonetofar ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by gonetofar:
<strong>Says that he has done everything he can to get those feelings back without success. How can you try so hard and make a person believe you want it when you don't have those feelings? Makes no sense to me. I feel if those feelings were gone, you couldn't have acted so loving and wanting at all. Any thoughts about that? Thank you for listening and talking to me about this. I clearly need the help.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is the premesis of MB ... in-love is a choice !. This is what I would like you to do. You should not talk about separation at all like never been spoken. Don't make even travel arrangement, delay as much as you can. Meanwhile, plan A you rear behind !. Fillin his ENs as much as you can !. Have you print ENQ and LBQ and fill it together and if he don't want to do it ... you fill one as if he fill it. Guess the best you can. The LBQ is a not to do list under any circumstances. The ENQ is a to do list and do them all, the way he like it by weighing the top 5 more.

Please if you could afford it get conseling with MB. At one point in my conseling, SH challenged my Ex to give him 6 months to work on M and he told her he could recreate "in-love". I am MB believer ... I do believe if a woman willing to let me fillin her ENs, tell me about her LBs, make time with me, be honest about her feeling ... I would make her fall in love with me. The key here is willing. I have no questions about your willingness, it just you have to fine tune your method. Your H seems is willing to let you. You should be able to finn in his LB$. Your problem with H is your taker start getting the better of you, right now at this point your H is not at the same page as you. So you have to be the giver and watch out you don't snapped. You have many chances to fillin his ENs since he allows you too.

Again I couldn't stress the important of figuring out his ENs and LBs. The essence of MB is you are responsible for your spouse's love, you are responsible to care, protect, giving time to grow and letting it grow.

-rh-

GTF,

You are getting good help. Please check out my babble thread and see if you recognize some babbling coming out of your H.

Then see how to handle it. Do you find that your rollercoaster ride is worse when you following his swings? If so, step off the rollercoaster.

He doesn't want to be friends, then he wants to be your friend. He wants you to be there to take care of stuff (bills, etc.) but give the other part of his EN to someone or something else. Does he have that right? Do you?

See once the babble is cleared, the picture may look more bleak but at least it is clear. Now you can acess and move forward.

GTF, I was in the same boat as you over 2 years ago. PBR still rears her ugly head as recent as last this month. Now though, it is not hard for me to implement my version of plan B. Not putting up with an A is much easier.

Oh yea, you know all that stuff I was accused of doing to the WS around d/d and before? Well, hold onto your horses because while it was a false charge back then, I am certainly strong enough to follow through with those charges now and you know what? Something about double jeporady comes to mind..... even in the A, I can't be charged with the same crime twice! LOL!!! So the WS and OP were told, thanks for all the 'good' ideas they gave me during their A because now I have more ideas on how to deal with them.

See how I was able to take their stupidity and throw it back at them? Now that's reverse babble. I am stronger for it. U can be also. The strength and degree needs to be tempered with the personality you are dealing with, yourself and your R.

Hope this helps.

L.

Thanks for the input. Let me add this, it was thrusday he told me that I should leave. I told him that I would not leave without my things. Well, he won't have the money until Apr.4th to ship stuff home. On Friday, when I got home from work there were empty boxes in the kitchen. Orchid, I don't know if you remember this, I packed and had movers ready and all of this same situation about moving back, in October. Redhat, I have not mentioned leaving since Thrusday, when we talked about it. The boxes are still sitting there. But honestly, how can I really stay when he tells me to go home? I can wait and see if he does anything else towards me going. I stopped kissing him and stuff after that night. I am still nice to him but none of the affection that I was showing. Him either! Just friendly talk between us now. Seems that we are just waiting for the money to finnish it. I can try not to mention the sep. and see what happens. I don't see how I can met any of his needs after that talk. He seems really sad since then. Orchid, I am the ws in this situation. He says he has tried to get those feelings back. He sure seemed to be doing a good job at showing that! I honestly don't want to sep. but I can't stay if he insist I go. Don't want him to suffer anymore either with the indecision he feels. Now I am beginning to feel numb with the pain. What next?

gonetofar,
This is my 2¢. You have to ticken your skin and find a way to stay, you need as much time as you can trying to do plan A and no LB'ed. If H only allows you to be his friend, be his best friend !. Reread many response you had gotten and read you own response ... I saw your taker is talking. No expectation in plan A.

This is my 2x4. Do you want your H ?, your actions doesn't show it. We all trying to tell you to stay and do plan A ... but you are in as much fog as he is. You take his fog to respond to our reply. You have sucked up into fogesse land and you don't even realize it.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Look at this
<strong> "I don't see how I can met any of his needs after that talk."</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">... what the talk got to do with meeting his needs ? nothing but only you are giving up on this and try to find a reason -this is fogesse <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> . </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Again
<strong> "He says he has tried to get those feelings back. He sure seemed to be doing a good job at showing that!"</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">ssshhhsh ! Did he went to MC ? talk to pastor or others that survive an A in M ? what did he really do ? ...

My advice, please concentrate on plan A and no LB'ed. Just hit me that "He seems really sad since then" ... of course !. Listen, your H is not honest with himself, lack of emotional integrity ... many people do. However if your read his action, it shows that your plan A made impact on him and you should not stop it but do it more often. One of you should still believe in the future for both of you He is indicisive so you have to carry the torch. Plan A your gut out and don't LB (begging & crying is annoying behavior to H) !. He didn't reject your kisses, hug, nice lunch ... did he ?. Giving enough time s3x will follow ...

Where are ENQ and LBQ ? did you do your homework ? Focus on what could save your M not what in front of you. Sorry if I am too harsh but if you read many other posts, look at Jen's ... She will be glad to be in your shoes !.

-rh-

<small>[ March 24, 2003, 09:54 AM: Message edited by: redhat ]</small>

redhat,
Hi i truly appreciate your advice, but how can I do plan a when he is telling me that when he gets the money, i should leave. That will be Apr. 1st. I do very much want to continue trying. I just don't see how to do it. He asked me why I would want to stay with someone who does not want you to. Plan a with only two weeks to go. Must go for a bout 15 mins. I will be back to talk more.

Two more points. Leave the box in the kitchen alone but take the stuff that you need slowly and put it back in the drawer after using it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> . Thess are BS questions about WS ... Does she really love me ? ... how can I trust her again ? ... can I be happy with her again ?. WS responsibilities to answer it to BS with actions. You have about 2 weeks to influence his decision to make you move out. -rh-

Gtf,

I have to take my son to school then it's off to the salt mine. Here's a quick note: share with him some of our MB stuff. Even some threads of others you think are helpful. Many a BS would love to have such a repentant Ws in our home. Your H does not realize the advantage he has.
Of course that is usually the case.

I do remember you packing your stuff last year. Maybe if the $$ never makes it? ooohh Orchid has some wicked ideas and I am the BS?!?!? YIKES!

U take care and I will check back with you later. In the meantime, reread what Redhat has posted. He will help you. He is a great guy and has helped may.

take care,
L.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by gonetofar:
<strong>redhat,
Hi i truly appreciate your advice, but how can I do plan a when he is telling me that when he gets the money, i should leave.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why not ?. Many WS threathen Dv but many didn't file and reconsile later. He has not bought you a ticket and has not drive you to the airport ... hasn't he ?. How could you not to plan A !!!!!!. Look, 1. By you withdrawing your emotion from him sending a wrong signal. I read it as she didn't love me, her love is only skin deep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> . When [censored] h!t the f@n in the future she would not have enough love for us to survive it. 2. Worst scenario, you have to go far away. What kind of last memory for him to cherish you ?. Cold & unloving & giving up on me memories or warm & loving & believe in us ?.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>I do very much want to continue trying. I just don't see how to do it.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We have tried to tell you but you refuse to listen to it. Where were ENQ&LBQ ?. Make a list of his complaints in you before d-day and after d-day, make quick changes to all of them. Notice that if you do certain thing that make him cheerfull or attitude changes or he verbally acknowledge it ... it is a keeper.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> He asked me why I would want to stay with someone who does not want you to.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What is your answer ? ... this is fogesse talk and actually it is a test question that many BS would do to WS. Ask me again on what you should say !.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Plan a with only two weeks to go. Must go for a bout 15 mins. I will be back to talk more.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You just minus 15 minutes from that 2 weeks ... my point is you don't have much time but you make the best out of it and hope that he changes his mind or he will miss you dearly !.

-rh-

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He asked me why I would want to stay with someone who does not want you to. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How about:
-Because I am truly remorseful that I hurt you.
-Because I love you.
-Because I want to be married to you.
-Because I have the resolve to be the wife you need me to be.
-Because you are the man I want to spend the rest of my life with.

Of course those are things you say only if they are true.

I couldn't help to hijack your thread ...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Orchid:
<strong>I do remember you packing your stuff last year. Maybe if the $$ never makes it? ooohh Orchid has some wicked ideas and I am the BS?!?!? YIKES!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't want to see you as OW or WS ... you will be OW or WS from hell <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> . No wonder your WH never see what hit him not even now.

GTF, take Orchid advice ... try to spend $$$ out <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> ... hmm, how much going to tanning salon cost now day ... LOL !!!.

-rh-

redhat,
My answer to his question was, because I love you and I really want to stay with you. His response was I don't want you to. How can the bs spouse be in a fog? I have tried to tell him all the reasons I want to stay. Just now he left for work and didn't even say goodbye to me. He has been paying for stuff I need for the last week so I could save my money to travel on. Well sat when we went to the liq. store, I offered him the 15.00 that it would cost. This time he took the money. Last nite we watched war of the roses together and I felt like he was trying to tell me something without saying it. My thoughts were about one person wanting to stay and the other doing everything they could to drive the other away. Danny devitto was talking to a client about the story and in the end he told the man to try to find the slightest bit of love he use to have for his wife, when Danny turned around the man was gone. I would have told h goodbye and have a good day if he had not left so fast without me knowing it. I fear he will bring more boxes home. If he pushes it, I will have to do it, cause he can get really ugly if pushed the wrong way. He has told me that he does love me and does forgive me but doesnt know if it is enough love to stay in the marriage. Obtw, we did have s3x the other nite and it bothered him. I also looked into his eyes and he into mine. Friday nite I asked him if he would have s3x with me again and he said, I don't know. He is afraid that I will feel like everything is better because of it and I told him, no I want, I just want it with you!!!

<small>[ March 24, 2003, 11:21 AM: Message edited by: gonetofar ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by gonetofar:
<strong>redhat,
My answer to his question was, because I love you and I really want to stay with you. His response was I don't want you to. How can the bs spouse be in a fog?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good, that was his response back then; your job is to keep telling him the same thing again over and over. Presistant, Time (over and over and let it sink) and Consistent (PTC) is a must. Fog is an attempt to explain/justify illogical behavior ... when the fog lifted, many people won't even remember it or if they do they will laugh at it. Is it logical when you are hurt you push away the person close to you ? rather than hold them tight and get support ?.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>I would have told h goodbye and have a good day if he had not left so fast without me knowing it.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Could you call him ? or email him "just to say hi & I miss you ?".
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>If he pushes it, I will have to do it, cause he can get really ugly if pushed the wrong way.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What do you mean by ugly ?, did he ever hit you or verbal abuse ?. Use delay tactics so you never have enough $ to travel. Yes, if it is an LB to him to stay definitly you have to go but the main point in here is you have to leave him with good plan A.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>He has told me that he does love me and does forgive me but doesnt know if it is enough love to stay in the marriage.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do you want this M ?. read as much as you can about MB and fillin his LB$.

-rh-

Gonetofar:

I feel like I'm in the same situation except I'm the BS and my H is the WS. He has moved out due to a job change two hours away, but we still email during the day, talk a few evenings each week and are like friends to each other....who do still have sex when we're together.

Thing is he says he's been trying to be nice to me, to be supportive and be there for me (I'm pregnant and due in May) so since I am actiing as if things are ok, he is doing the same.

Except yesterday, he started an R talk and said he is thinking about filing in April.

I have been doing plan A and he has felt like I'm pressuring him into loving me. He has an OW who makes him happy, and he doesn't see any chance in us working because he is not willing to give her up.

Yet when we do see each other he is very friendly, pleasant, etc. just like your H, but doesn't want me to have hope about us.

I don't know how to tell if it's really fog, or him just trying to keep us on friendly terms while he continues to pursue a divorce.

I guess I haven't given much advise to you, but just want to say your story sounded very familiar. I think that if you don't want to leave and don't want a divorce that is what you should tell him. Each time he brings it up just say you love him, believe in your marriage and don't want to leave.

That's what I did yesterday and I hope it at least bought me sometime....he didn't say what he was going to do when he left and today we've been emailing like normal....

HoldingMyBreath,

A has to be put in the day light otherwise you are enabeling. You are doing the right thing otherwise, one of you have to believe in M. Keep monitoring your plan A and check his ENs ... fill it as much as you can.

-rh-