Hello,

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This was posted on the JFO board and someone advised to post it here as well. So here goes:
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After reading just about everything on this site, still don't know how to handle my particular situation.

About us:
I am the husband, 39.
She is 35. Looking younger for her age.
Married for 14 years. We have a daughter 11.

I never considered our marriage in trouble. Nothing that we couldn't work out. Until one day last November (2002), she fell into complete withdrawal. After several days of this (not talking, touching, kissing, smiling, etc), I asked what was going on. It was a shock!!! She told me that she doesn't love me and we must end our marriage. That's it. No choice, no sorting things out, no future.
I must say, that I've never seen her like that. She said, she was determined. And determined she was!!!!!

She remembered every single disagreement we ever had, every single disagreement she had with my parents, sister, you name it. She accused me of being insensitive, to have never brought her flowers, to have never really loved her, to have never care about our daughter.... It was horrible to see her like that. She cried without end... I tried to calm her, but she rejected me.

I didn't know what to do. It looked as if she was possessed. The roller coaster started....

We said each other awful things. Things that we didn't mean. We hurt each other. What a LB that and several nights following that one was.

To find some answers, I searched the Internet. I found MB. It was like I got up from a coma. I found out why I was behaving the way I was, and most importantly why she was behaving the way she was. We didn't meet each other needs, although I must admit that I was holding the 1st place on this one. I started to do everything around the house. I cooked, cleaned, washed, took care of everything only to hear her saying that that's not what she needs. What do you need honey, I asked. I want you out, was the response. She asked me to move out so that she can "think things over". I agreed, with the condition that we go to a MC. After the first (and only) session, I found out the hard way what a BAD MC was. Routine questions, quick answers. Verdict - no hope. NO HOPE?????!!!! You kidding me???? What a mistake. The MC was trying to convince my W that it's OK to get divorced. It was another blow to our marriage after all the LBs from before.

But wait, it gets better...

After I found a cheap basement apartment and was ready to move out, she tells me that I shouldn't be deprived of comfort and should stay in the house as she will rent an apartment for herself. She never had to look for an apartment or anything of that matter for herself before. All responsibilities such as finances, insurance, repairs, car, house, were mine. I tried before to show her how to manage our finances, but she was never interested. She told me she can't do this sort of thing. Boy, was she quick (and resourceful!) in finding an apartment. Knowing her, I would have never thought that she can do it without me. But she did!!! WOW!!! This is were it hit me!!!! My beautiful wife is having an affair!!! I must say that reading information on MB, one never thinks of clicking on "Infidelity" link. We tend to stick to LBs and ENs secretly thinking that this is not my case. I will avoid that. Admit it. You did. Didn't you?

But how do I know? I felt it. Just like everyone here. Felt it, but didn't want to admit it to myself. So I asked her. Is there anyone else? No, she says. What a terrible liar she is. I always like that in her. Just to spice my story a little bit, she told me that there is nobody else while I was giving her a full body massage, 8 hours before I caught them.

But wait, let's step back a little bit.... Back to the time when she decided to get the apartment....

I had hope. I was eager to accept that there is nobody in her life and by doing everything that MB recommends, kept my fingers crossed. But I had no way of stopping her from moving out, nothing would work, and she had no interest in anything that would help our marriage. I was as if she might find out something that will stop her from running away from me. She would get angry every time I would mention MB or anything that may change her mind. You should see the look she gave me when I mentioned the word "questionnaire". It wasn't good.

She moved out February 02, 2003 and I helped her. I should have had a camera. The move included our mattress, TV, VCR and a basement couch. The rest was a garbage bag of lingerie and two pillows. What a determined woman. She had to comeback home that night as she didn't have the basics with her. Later I had to get her the things she actually needed to survive in the apartment like dishes, pans, cutlery... I must add that her moving out put a considerable pressure on our finances. She gave up riding. I started to work overtime.

At this time she decides that our daughter needs a dog and quickly finds a beautiful Jack Russell terrier puppy. What a nightmare. Sleepless nights, cleaning after the dog, expensive shots, training... But I like the animal. Our daughter wants to be a vet. Good idea.

Until now the style of my story was somewhat humorous. This is to lure you, the reader, so that you keep interested. I need your help. I beg you. Read on.

I caught them while I came to her apartment on a Sunday morning to surprise her (hit and run) by cleaning the snow off her car in the parking lot (we live in Canada, eh) to discover that the car was not there. I called her cell (9:00AM) and asked her where she was. She answers, at the apartment, where else. We are not English speaking people, we speak Russian. She answered in English. When I asked her to tell me the same thing in Russian, she couldn't say a word. I told her that I am at the apartment building parking lot, that the car is not there. There was a lot of snow since last night and I cleaned it all for her. I told her that I knew who she was with (phone bills, internet, "good" friends), where she was, and I was betting that I know what she is wearing at the moment. I told her that she doesn't have to lie anymore, that I will call later so that she doesn't have to force herself in talking to me. Later when I called again, she was at the apartment. I told her that I don't judge her, that I understand why she didn't tell me (didn't want to hurt me), that I still love her and will give her all my support. For the first time in three months she told me good words. She told me that I talk like a friend would, and she appreciates it very much.

Since that day in November I thank God every time he gives me 4 hours of sleep at night. I cry every day. I hate myself for the things I did wrong. I am ready for anything to have my wife back. I am hurt for her and for my daughter, who begins to hate her mom. I hate the OP. I do everything to avoid LB. Plan A failed miserably. I assume because it was too late. What do I do next? She's in the classic "have her cake and eat it too" situation, although I see how she suffers. She told me on numerous occasions, that she is afraid to lose me (we don't have any family here, just the three of us), that she is afraid to make the wrong decision. At the same time, I know that she is seeing OP overnight. They work on the same floor, in the same building. I haven't had a good night sleep in over 5 months. I am depressed and have never been so low in my entire life, despite the fact that I survived a death threat. I wish I was on an emotional roller coaster. At least there are good moments when you're in one.

Please help!!!!!!!!!

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I got a reply asking if the OM is married, so here is my addition to the story above.

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Thanks to everyone who replied. I appreciate it very much. As I said, we're alone in this country. No family members to talk to. And my friends and coworkers are probably sick and tired of my problems. Although still show a lot of support and give a lot of advise.

I went to the doctor, and had taken some pills which helped me sleep and mellowed my pain a bit.

Here is some more info:

OM has just separated from his GF when the affair started in August - September 2002. So he is single now. He is 4 years younger than her.

They started to see each other intimately March 08, 2003. My wife could not do it before moving out and convincing herself that it's OK first. She is convinced that now, when we live apart she has all the rights to do it, and does not hide it. The only person she didn't tell anything yet, and is affraid to do so is our 11 year old daughter. She says that she doesn't consider this to be an affair at all. She is just "seing someone" while "sorting things out". It hurts to see how inconciderate she is of my feelings. She tells me of her plans for the week-end with him. And certainly thinks that I have no right to interfere with them. She was such a caring wife and mother. I can't beleive she can hurt us so much with a smile on her face. She looks so happy.

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So here is my question. Should I continue with plan A now that we live separately without giving it the recommended six months, or go strait to plan B?

I need your help!!!!

priviet - kakoi kashmar. no my vse sdes v samoe situazii :-(

things like "She says that she doesn't consider this to be an affair at all" are a classic - you can safely ignore it.

my suggestion is to continue to plan A. Do a lot of reading here - you will understand more about yourself, about your relationship and also about how your WW reacts.

shyslivo,
N

My suggestion would be to Plan B. This assumes though that you are pretty sure that she would come back to you (i.e. family) if the A were over.

Someone who can say "this isn't an affair" is not someone who will likely see much from a Plan A.

That said, there's a lot about your situation that you haven't shared that would change my opinion and should come into play in your decision. Like your daughter and how important she is to your W. Your W will likely be doing the most terrible thing to your daughter in your childhood. Your wife probably doesn't realize that because of the fog. And financial resources. And OM. Can he be discouraged easily or is he lost in fog also?

This is probably one of the most horrible stories I've heard in a while. But from how hard you tried before and how hard you want to try now, there's still a lot of hope from what I see so far.

I don't think the "when" of Plan B (i.e. how long your Plan A is as long as it's good enough) really matters so much as how you implement it (details, purpose and timing), so I feel somewhat comfortable with the Plan B suggestion.

<small>[ March 25, 2003, 03:10 PM: Message edited by: est ]</small>

Thank you for replies.

PA didn't work because she never gave me a chance to implement it. She was throwing away the flowers I bought her, repeatedly told me that what I do is too late and makes her angry and guilty. OM was there for too long before she brought it up. When I started PA her mind was set. PB however may not work just yet. Their relationship is in the phase where nothing can stop them (in their minds) from being happy forever. OM called me and said that she is the woman he was looking for all his life, and nothing will stop them from being together. He will accept my daily presence (because of our daughter) just to be with her. I don't bother him. The fact that she says that she still loves me, but is not in love with me doesn't bother him either.

I am more inclined to just let things as they are, and wait for the A to end it's natural death. I, am absolutely sure that it will die, but it's too early to say "Goodbye, I love you but I can't take this anymore. Comeback when the A is over." That's what they want. Not to bother them. To be left alone. They just started to enjoy themselves physically three weeks ago. What can I say or do to get their attention? Nothing, in my opinion. Let them cool off, see some reality first. Maybe realise the diferences between them. See some faults in each other.
Before going to plan B, I would like to know that she at least gives some consideration to our M.

As for our daughter, she is neglected by her mom. WW thoughts are not with her daughter. Our D routinely asks her if she could stay with me inventing excuses when is not my week to stay with WW. She suffers a lot, but her mom is "not there" to see it. Or maybe she is, but has no control over her behavior. It's sad, but this cannot stay like that for too long. I am sure that after the "heat" WW will come to her senses. I think that WW hates our daughter because she inflicts guilt in her. She cannot tell her about OM. She has to lie, hide the truth. It's very tiering for her. So she blames everyone who is in their way.

Priviet

<strong>
"&#8230;told me that what I do is too late and makes her angry and guilty"
</strong>
that's exactly a reaction to be expected. IN your wife's mind, you are Attila the Hun. With this picture in her mind, she justifies her destructive behaviour. Now, anything which contradicts this behaviour has to be shut out of her mind - that's why she gets upset, that's why she throws flowers in the bin. NB - the abbreviation 'PA' is typically used here for 'physical affair', ie an affair involving s%x, as opposed to Plan A (which you used it for)

<strong>
"I am more inclined to just let things as they are, and wait for the A to end it's natural death. I, am absolutely sure that it will die, but it's too early to say "Goodbye, I love you but I can't take this anymore. Comeback when the A is over." That's what they want. Not to bother them. To be left alone. They just started to enjoy themselves physically three weeks ago. What can I say or do to get their attention? Nothing, in my opinion. Let them cool off, see some reality first. Maybe realise the diferences between them. See some faults in each other.
Before going to plan B, I would like to know that she at least gives some consideration to our M."
</strong>

Great plan - I would do exactly the same. Just keep in mind that these phases are played out in timeframes of six months or so (of course, any given situation might be different&#8230; actually, plan A ends when you just can't take it anymore). So what to do now? I would keep up plan A, namely
- look after yourself, do good exercising, keep healthy
- do a lot of background reading here and elsewhere to get up to speed with all the relationship concepts etc - why not start with the books recommeded here, or Relate's "how affairs end" or something
- look well after your daughter (more of that below)
- and: keep up sending regular messages to your wife, flowers here, a card there, that sort of thing, just letting her know basically a) you are thinking of her b) you (ie, you + daughter, *her* family) is missing her, c) it ain't too late.

<strong>
I think that WW hates our daughter because she inflicts guilt in her. She cannot tell her about OM. She has to lie, hide the truth. It's very tiering for her. So she blames everyone who is in their way.
</strong>
Again, typical WW behaviour. It is very sad that it impacts your daughter (it didn&#8217;t that way in my case, luckily). It is your duty in this sense to protect your daughter from the destructive behaviour of your wife and take her out of the firing line. At the same time, that's a *great* opportunity for you to become the best dad in the world and to really bond and have fun with your daughter. And guess what, your wife will surely feel excluded and will start missing all those family things&#8230;.

Poka,
N

<small>[ March 26, 2003, 03:32 AM: Message edited by: Nick123 ]</small>

BigStar - my heart goes out to you. I've been where you are. The pain is unbelievable.

Having said that, I think that you need to protect yourself and your daughter. See an attorney to protect yourself. Change all your bank accounts, etc. If your wife has a car, take her off of your insurance if you are paying for it.

Then, compose a Plan B letter. You need to protect your love for your wife, let her know that you love her but that her selfish behavior is too destructive to your daughter and your marriage. Implement Plan B until she "thinks things over" and decides if her affair is worth losing everything else. This is the "shock" part of Plan B. She will have to face the total reality of what she is doing and the OM will have to meet all of her needs.

What's the risk? The risk is that she could decide to leave the marriage. But she already has left. She is just trying to "keep you around" because you meet some of her remaining needs. Unless you think that it's okay to have a second man in your marriage with your wife, then she needs to "see" the total consquences of her actions.

Explore Plan A before you implement Plan B, but don't believe anything that your wife tells you for now. She is deeply in the fog of the fantasy and will rationalize all her actions and lie to you with impunity. In my case, I did the Plan A until my wife "chose" the OM over me and my family. At that point I had her move out to her apartment immediately and was prepared to move to Plan B. Only her immediated turnaround, caused by finally having to face the finality of her decision, in less than 24hours made me implement a "modified Plan B" where I stayed in contact with her to help her and to see if her "change in mind" would be real or not.

God bless as you work through these very difficult decisions.

Bigstar,

Grace to you and your daughter...what a bunch of crapola...

My suggestion is to really consider Plan A some more...
My concern is that you believe it failed miserably...but really plan A is all about you...so as long as you grow and find strength in it...it is not failing...

Here are some of my reasonings...

1. most affairs (high high) percent die thier own natural crash and burn death with out the BS ever doing a thing...that is in your favor.

2. If she is hiding her affair from her daughter and not telling her daughter of her intentions then this affair is still a "dirty little secret" and she is not totally reconciled to it and it's impact. Nor is it exposed to the light of day

3. Even when we end a marriage on the 'best of terms' there is the mourning period that one must face...diving head first into another (illicit) in this case relationship robs the WS of that mourning time (forces them to stuff those feelings and pretend all is well in La-La land) and attributes to this new relationships demise by building up guilt and unreleased emotions.

Plan B enhances her drive to escape and ignore reality in the case of the effect of her actions on you, your daughter and herself....

Plan B spares her from a phone call telling her about the good time you and your daughter had doing this or that...and at exactly what point you or daughter thought...gee I wish mom was here...she really would have enjoyed this....(Plan A gives you oppportunity to give glimpses of the the big and little things she has given up

You get HER attention by being calm, kind,
Part of Plan A is the WS expectation of your reactions ...
expecting you to react negatively to this or that...feeds into their weak rational of their own behavior...

"BS the fact that you are upset that I and OP are going away this weekend is proof that you have alwyas be controlling"...load of crapola that we can all see through...
SO...Plan A is the part where you defuse their rational by reacting totally different....
let them go away..but make sure she goes away with a smidgen of a good thought about you...

This is all very new...and I think you should read more about plan A...seek councel here with the Harleys....plan b is to much letting her escape....

Plan A though definately is all about boundaries that protect you and your daughter .....

Also you have to consider the reality of plan b with your daughter...if it really is only you three who would handle the communication aspect...

Take care of YOU....find something to invest your energy in...socially, spiritually....

Be good to yourself...
Believe little to nothing she says...
reflect and imagine becoming the PERSON and husband you want to be...and move towards actions that get you there....
no heavy relationship talk...
reflect heavily on mistakes in the past...that contributed/feeds in to her motives for her actions....make changes that show you have changed....

show her glimpses of new you...strong confident..becoming worthy of being loved as well as loving...
you are not a object to be tossed away....

Blessings to you and your home.
ARK

I agree with the posters above that you should move to Plan B. Plan A is having no effect except to make her angry. Is there any way she would agree to let your daughter come live with you 100% of the time? Can you get fulltime custody? I think hers is a bad environment for your daughter and I also think that your daughter is an obstacle to the affair that enables the fantasy to continue.

In other words, if the daughter is there, your W cannot assume the affair as she wishes so any problems with that relationship will be blamed on the obstacle rather than the real source. That will only prolong the affair. Whereas, if they were free to carry on unobstructed, it would die its natural death unimpeded. But please do move to Plan B, this is not about unmet needs but about keeping you around as a safety net. Remove the safety so she can start waking up.

And please please do me a favor? When you develop your Plan B letter, please make it short, firm, non-combative, concise and loving. Nothing horrifies me more than to see some of these Plan B novelettes that are filled with 10 pages of mush and sentimentalism that can only serve to be a major lovebuster to a receiver who is emotionally detached. More is not better, IMO.

I agree to disagree with Meldoylane and ForeverHers, and agree to agree with ^^ark. I think you are still nowhere near the point to throw in the towel and cut all comm's. Instead, do all the background reading to understand what is meant by plan A. It is NOT simply "being nice to WS". It is:

<strong>
Plan A is for the betrayed spouse to negotiate with the wayward spouse to totally separate from the lover without angry outbursts, disrespect, and demands. These three Love Busters not only ruin any effort to reach a negotiated settlement, but they also make the betrayed spouse much less attractive to the wayward spouse. Instead of encouraging total separation from the lover, the anger, disrespect and demands of the betrayed spouse make the lover appear to be the only one who truly cares about the wayward spouse. They literally throw the wayward spouse into the arms of the lover.

On the other hand, if the betrayed spouse approaches the wayward spouse with respect and thoughtfulness, the cruelty and self-indulgence of the affair is much easier for the wayward spouse to understand. And once the wayward spouse's mistake is acknowledged, it's much easier for him or her to take the first step toward recovery by agreeing to never see or talk to the lover again.

In these negotiations for total separation, the causes of the affair should be addressed. Since one of these causes is usually unfulfilled emotional needs, the betrayed spouse should express a willingness to meet those needs after the affair has ended. Another common cause is a wayward spouse's failure to take the betrayed spouse's feelings into account. The betrayed spouse's inconsiderate behavior sometimes leads the wayward spouse to believe that he or she has the right to return thoughtlessness with thoughtlessness by having an affair. Willingness of the betrayed spouse to follow the Policy of Joint Agreement goes a long way toward resolving the issue of thoughtlessness.
</strong>

good stuff, eh? It's from this website.

PS - again, somewhere else Harley mentiones a timeframe of 6 months or so... with the disclaimer of course that a given particular case might be different. So if it doesn't work instantaneously, be patient!

Udachem,

Nick

I would like to thank from the bottom of my heart to everyone who replies and gives me such a strong support. I am still very weak, and every word you write here gives me more strength and hope. You are the best crowd to talk to in my situation. I feel each and everyone's personal involvment. You are like a good family to me and my daughter.

Having said that I would like to answer some questions that some of you asked. (said "some" twice in one sentence. Not good. Sure sign that I am loosing it.)

First of all, I would like to appologise for using the wrong abbreviations. I will be more careful next time. I wanted to be hip and in the "groove", but I guess in my state of mind this is impossible. I found more mistakes in my posts, but behind each reply I see a very intelligent person and know that you will see the mistake and understand what I really ment.

About our daughter: WW cannot accept the thought that D stays with me 100%. She threatened me to call the paramedics and the police as she is affraid for the safety of D when she is with me and I am in such a bad shape. I must tell you that I called her one night (3 days after the PA (s$x) started between two of them) to tell her how much I am hurt. D was with me at the time. I was totally mental, so if she in fact did call the police, they would have put me under surveillance for sure. Not only would I have been put in a very dificult situation with the law, but this was a major LB. After these threats from her I don't even think of asking WW for more time with D.

I did consult a lawer. Canadian law protects WW in such a way that if she does not live under the same roof with me, an affair is not an affair because we are already separated. Agreement or no agreement. She probably knew this and that's why she was so eager to get an apartment, and is so convinced that this is not an affair. It is not, according to the law. I don't have any proof that they actually had s$x before the move nor do I have the desire to find out.

Regarding our finances and how we deal with it: As I said before, I am the only one who takes care of that part of our lives, although WW is the one who makes more money than I. WW requested that we split the accounts and keep a joint account for the "unavoidable" expences (house, insurance, cars, etc). WW actually came to me the other day with the idea that I should buy her out and stay in the house, or vice versa. She hates the apartment. It is a very inconvinient location, the building smells are not the best I've seen and it is not comfortable at all even after I repainted it and fixed everything that was broken. I know that neither of us can afford the house on our own, but WW has no idea, nor that she want to know, about the state of our finances. Several weeks ago, I showed her how to pay her MasterCard bill, so that she doesn't ask me anymore (at her request), and the next time she got the bill, didn't know what to do with it. She forgot the password, the URL, everything. So she asked me to do it. So I did. It's not a big deal, but it will work in my favor during plan B, I think. WW constantly reminds me not to spend any money on "things I don't need", totally ignoring the fact that her apartment and the piece of junk car that I had to buy for myself, sets us back about $1100 a month. She drives a brand new Honda Accord BTW. I used the bus before she had to move for 4 years.

I tend to agree with ark^^ that plan B gives her more ammunition to behave like she does and continuing with plan A is a good idea for now. Another point made by ark^^ that implementing plan B is very dificult because we don't have a mediator between us. I hate to make our D the mediator. Doesn't she suffer enough?

Yesterday D was writing some verses. I will post them here for you to read as I don't have them with me. Some of the things she wrote made me close in the washroom an cry. She will show them to her mom today.

I don't have the time to proofread what I put together today. But please forgive me for the ocasional mistake. I didn't sleep last night because my car <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> broke down at 11PM, I waked half a mile to the phone booth having only one quarter, called the biggest tow truck company in the city and they told me to wait two hours. I waited, they didn't come. A woman, god bless her, offered me a ride home. It was 1:25AM. Called other tow truck companies. They told me to wait until morning. I went to bed at 2AM only to be awaken by the pager (computers have a tendency to brake the same night with your car)at 4AM. After 1,5 of troubleshooting, got the spare (very havy) battery and, by bus got to the car (still had to cary it for half a mile). Started it and got to work. People here are very good letting me write this. They are aware that this helps me.

God bless you all....

Bigstar,

A good plan A focuses directly on you...and the extremely important need for you to take care of you....and that way you can then take good care of your daughter....

It's not fair...but the opposite is worse...your wife's brain has temporarily gone to the twilight zone ...where she ratonalizes all her behaviors...pretty scarey for an eleven year old...
And now just imagine if dad takes a dive off the deep end...then double whammo for your daughter...and now really scarey...

Consider searching for support groups that in your area that open up social arenas and outlets for you and her...

i hate for you to be/feel so isolated in a time when you shouldn't be...part of Plan a is definately focusing on you...and making time for you....

Consider seeing your doctor for anti-depressants your stress level in high....
lots of doctors prescribe them safely when a person is under a lot stress....brain working over time...is tiring....and bad for our health both mentally and physically...

eat healthy and physical activity also help us feel better (and sometimes a great way to get rid of pent up frustration) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Are you religious...can you or have you sought counsel through those channels...if not have you considered that route...it can open up social and spiritual pathways....
can not and will not deny the power of prayer even in the greatest of adversity....

read on Plan A...search posts on it...plan A is not heavy relationship talks and flowers and accolades of love....plan a is becoming who you are meant to be....

boundaries though often perceived as a love bust does not necessarily make them so....telling someone that you are unable to pretend that it is OK to abandon their daughter is pretty much just plain old truth...and often the truth is exactly what a WS will attempt to deny...

peace to you and yours
ARK

Thanks ark^^

Despite everything, I feel a lot better right now and my D and I have the times of our lives together. I must admit that I have an occassional dive, but I try to get it out of my system asap. I joined a dancing class (wich I wasn't able to attend yet because of OT that I put in), we go to the movies, play games, cook together. Every day is better than the previous one. I never gave up my soccer (tree times a week), work out every second day. I still have problems eating and have to force myself. The pills I take now, are helping as well. I am trying to read as much as I can here, but must say that have very little time. It's either work, sports, D, cooking, cleaning, etc. Constantly busy. Nights are the worst. Namely at about 3AM when I usually wake up pill or no pill. I can't think of anything else and don't fall asleep again. I am expecting this to end soon. When I posted first I was in one of my lows that also can happen when my D is with W.

Thanks again for your support.

It comes and goes in waves.... most important for you now is to find a pattern to keep healthy. The fact that you play football and go to the gym help - well done. Similarly, eat & drink healty.

And dont worry about the finer legal points what is an affair and what is not... utter bull - of course it's an affair, and yes, it's wrong.

Cheers
N

It is my week to stay with D. All of a sudden WW comes for a visit. Cleans kitchen, takes D for a walk with the dog (I was on my way from work when she got there). Super friendly with D. When I get home we don't get into any relationship talks. Just chatting about the dog and weather. I complement her on her new Hilfigger glasses. We have a nice "family" tea and cookies, when I inform her that I will be having her boss (an old friend of ours) and his wife for BBQ on Sunday. She couldn't hide the surprise but tried to keep a strait face.
D and I had to hurry for her riding lesson. This is when WW informs me that she will be busy all day Sunday and won't be able to pick up D (all with a smile on her face). Obviously she hurts me deliberately by telling me about her plans. Sunday is the day when her week with D starts. I am only glad that D stays with me an extra day, but what this whole visit means I don't know. Can anyone decipher it for me please?

P.S.
The "official reason" she came was that she needed a vacuum cleaner bag. OK, I believe it.

Just finished ready your story... Sorry for your hurt and pain. We all feel it. Do you really think she came over to get a vacuum bag? So she can afford to purchase Hilfigger glasses but not vacuum bags????? Her motive was not to vacuum, clean, etc. I think she was just curious how you were handling things at the house, especially since your D stays there too. Maybe since you're not paying much attention to her she's wondering if you have begun another life without her. Continue to work on your PA and yourself.

Believing in love forever! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hello everyone.

This is an update to what't been happenning in the past couple of days:

WW called a couple of times and we chat friendly about our D and other things for almost half an hour one time and about an hour another time. She kept me on the phone by saying that there was something she wanted to ask me about but forgot. I told her if it is a R talk, I am not ready. We ended the conversation on a pretty good note and I noticed that she was pretty happy when we hang up.

Sunday we had a BBQ with her boss and his wife and of course the topic was our problem. They didn't know how much I know and actually had the intention to tell me that she is having an affair at work. I told them that I knew. They were releived for they didn't want to see the reaction, although felt obligated to tell me. All went well. I told them that I don't judge her, that I do everything to change and try to be the husband and father that SHE wants me to be. After all this my boss' wife tells me that she had a conversation with my wife and that she saw the improvement and changes in me. That was very incouraging.

After all that wonderful stuff I got the phone bill and it almost sent me back to the "lows". WW and OM had a month of nonstop conversations in the evenings (9-10PM). This is actualy a good thing as the A unfolds unobstructed but it stil hurts very much. I know I should't concentrate on this and work on myself and such, but cannot stomach it.

Do any of you see a sign of improvement here or am I being played like a bad card here? Need a second opinion.

I am almost ready for the plan B, as I get too upset sometimes and would like things to start moving. She is eating cake like it's going out of style. Maybe a hard reality check will clear the fog a bit. However Plan A is also working (or so I would like to think).

Please send your replies. It's too hard for myself to see the big picture by being in it.

Bless you all..

Hi BigStar,

I think what you are seeing now is the following: After the initial shock by you AND her of the discovery, she is trying to settle into a routine, where she can have both the family and her affair. you are very understanding and to a certain extent, give her affair the blessing (You wrote - "This is actualy a good thing as the A unfolds nobstructed but it stil hurts very much.")
Now, I was in a similar mindset at that phase. Am I right by saying that this may be a bit of denial and self-delusion? Why do you give her the feeling that it's OK to go off and have her affair, thereby risking to destroy the family she loves? Dont get me wrong, I think this is the phase of BS behaviour which is pretty typical I guess. You should now continue to work your plan A, however, this means becoming strong yourself, showing your strong, positive side. Make changes in yourself, lead a healthier lifestyle, do arts classes whatever, become the best dad you can. Dont focus too hard on WW, the relationship, OM, etc. Be nice to her, but at the same time let her know EXACTLY how you feel, and what her actions do to you. Keep that up for a couple of months...
Be strong. Remember, plan A is about YOU and not about tolerating all the govno flying in your direction.

Cheers,
N

Hello everyone,

Just got off the phone with WW.

I called to say just one thing, that I am hurt by the A and I'm not OK with it as she may have thought. I love her very much and try hard to be a good husband, but cannot accept the things as they are and suggested once again to give a consideration to reconcile. I wanted to also suggest her to read "His need Her needs".

Well it turned out into a major LB as she told me to leave her alone and not try to dump my problems on her. She is never comming back even if the A ends and she is prepared to live alone for the rest of her life. The only reason she gave me is that she is not in love with me anymore and does not see how this can be repared.

For the first time she told me that she hates the day she met me. Even if in the future she may give it a thought, she doesn't know where to start and has no desire to think where to start.

This hurts very much and I am at a dead end. I don't know what to do. She says that OM has nothing to do with it but she cannot end the A because he is the only one who she can accept in her life right now.

There was a lot of things said about her being afraid for the safety of our daughter when she is with me because of my emotional state. That she doesn't need me and I must get over it asap.

At the end of this mostly her talking (1.5 hours) she agreed to read the "f%^&*$g book" just to get me off the phone.

I am devastated. Nothing I did for the past 5 months touched her heart and the same "I don't love you anymore" was said over and over again, just like the night she brought it up.

Can this be explaned in any way. Is this fog or something major that I have never seen on MB before after reading just about every thread?