My full story here.

Hello everyone,

Just got off the phone with WW.

I called to say just one thing, that I am hurt by the A and I'm not OK with it as she may have thought. I love her very much and try hard to be a good husband, but cannot accept the things as they are and suggested once again to give a consideration to reconcile. I wanted to also suggest her to read "His need Her needs".

Well it turned out into a major LB as she told me to leave her alone and not try to dump my problems on her. She is never comming back even if the A ends and she is prepared to live alone for the rest of her life. The only reason she gave me is that she is not in love with me anymore and does not see how this can be repared.

For the first time she told me that she hates the day she met me. Even if in the future she may give it a thought, she doesn't know where to start and has no desire to think where to start.

This hurts very much and I am at a dead end. I don't know what to do. She says that OM has nothing to do with it but she cannot end the A because he is the only one who she can accept in her life right now.

There was a lot of things said about her being afraid for the safety of our daughter when she is with me because of my emotional state. That she doesn't need me and I must get over it asap.

At the end of this mostly her talking (1.5 hours) she agreed to read the "f%^&*$g book" just to get me off the phone.

I am devastated. Nothing I did for the past 5 months touched her heart and the same "I don't love you anymore" was said over and over again, just like the night she brought it up.

Can this be explaned in any way. Is this fog or something major that I have never seen on MB before after reading just about every thread?

<small>[ May 05, 2003, 03:22 PM: Message edited by: BigStar ]</small>

fog babble fog babble fog babble
warning warning warning.. zero/zero visibility...

whooooooo-hooooooo OK that is my lame attempt at the sound of a fog horn blaring.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

typical typical typical fog babble....

bigstar you fell off the plan a wagon....almost everyone does...time to dust yourself off and git back on....

It is soooo typical it is right from the script...

See as long as you are the root of all evil in the world...she is not responsible for an ounce of her actions...
as long as she can project all things on how you made poor her behave so....then wallah...she is free and clear to live in fogville Canada....

read more about plan A

no no no relationship talk...none zip nadda..bight your tongue till it bleeds if you have to..
.relationship talk is a little to painful for her because gosh darn it...she might have to acknowledge that her OWN actions just might be hurtful to others...and that just wouldn't be fair for her to feel anything but jusified in bad behavior, bad choices, and ABANDONMENT of her daughter......

I don't recomend plan B because she just moved out...

time to dig deep and look closely at your plan A...
time to step it up...

time to be only calm and in control when you see her...
time to show caring and compassion when you talk to her...but keep it short and sweet...
Time to leave her wonderig a little bit about what you are up to...not to appear to be home pining and stewing about her...
time to let her stop over...and then say after a few niceties...it's really nice you stopped over...but I have some things to do right now...so perhaps we will see you soon...and scoot her out the door...

time to make sure that when she comes to pick up daughter...or you drop daughter off...that you look smashing...smell really really good...and say...well I gotta go right now...have a nice visit...see you later...

time to do some 180's that leave her guessing exactly what is going on in your life...that you are "dealing with things.....

time to call her up and say (if religiously something you would do....) daughter and I are dying easter eggs on monday eve...and would love for you to join us if you are available...if she says no...say oh well maybe some other time....ok just thought we'd ask...gotta run now...

Ofcourse you are not OK..she isn't OK either...but give her ammo to justify her behavior...and pooof...she's got you where she wants you...all attention on you...none on her.

Plan A is all about small consistant changes that show you growing as a person...not some devasted man...(and you are entitled to be devastated..don't misunderstand me)...but presenting that side to her...the exact thing she wants to avoid...just pushes here away...show her the other you...show her the man you desire to become....

fog fog fog fog fog babble...straight from the horses mouth....

there's a painfilled but funny in a heart breaking way post about the dumbest things said by the wayward spouse...

including classic lines...
one that I loved...
was the the WS that told his BS that it was her fault that she made him have tell all these lies because she would have gotten mad at him if he told her the truth that he was sleeping with another woman.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
whooooooo-hooooooo (fog horn again)

lick your wounds...
believe NOTHING she says...
pray
seek serinity....
i will see if I can find that post....

blessings to you...and hopefully clear skies will be heading your way soon
ARK

So far so good BigStar,
You told her how you feel - and she responds with anger. Why? Easy - because, she has to 'deny' you any feelings for her actions to be right. You refust to do that - hence her only line of defense is to say that it's over anyway, and of course, that OM has nothing to do with it (ridiculous!). This is a FOG classic - trust me: been there, got the t-shirt. For example, my wife would regularly conjure up situations where I would end up as the loser, whatever step I would take. Like, when we were trying to find a restaurant to have dinner. When I say: This place looks nice, let's go in there, she would say: "see?? you never listen to my opinion." Then, when I would say "right - what about that one over there? what do you think?" she would answer "see???? you are so undecisive. you cant make any decisions. that's what I hate about you". and so on and on and on. I mean, I was really suffering at the time, but with the feedback from MB, and now viewed from a distance, I think everybody agrees how ridiculous it is. Similarly, look at your wife's words, mull them over in your head, and draw the right conclusion: they make no sense, they are words of a person in a hole who thinks the only way out is to keep digging.
The problem your wife has got at the moment, amonng other things, is to see *how* you two could ever reconcile given what happened. It's stressful to think about that scenario, so to make it even less likely, she keeps digging in the hole she put herself in. Makes sense? So what you got to do is to stand firm, be strong, hold out your hand and repeat - it's not too late, there is a way out, you believe in it. At this very point in time the first points I mentioned are the most important: stay healthy & strong. DOnt plead, focus on yourself. Look in the mirror - like what you see. Over the weekend promise to do 3 things which make you happy.

vsevo dobrovo
N

PS - I didnt reply to your post re. whether you should go to plan B or not - I do it here. My view is: it's too early. Keep up the plan A thing for you for a couple of months. You know when you are ready for plan B - that's the point when you are ALMOST ready to let go but not entirely yet.

Trust me man, been there,done that. Sometimes it's amazing how those WS's phrase exactly the same sentences, even after they ended their affair and/or when still seperated.
I also gave her books to read: Major LB-they don't want to know that your needs weren't met either but you didn't stray.
"I hate the day i met you": exactly what my soon to be XW said
She even kept my daughter away from me for about 8 months because she told me i was insane: of course this made things even more difficult for me

Right now i don't question my own sanity no more, i question hers.
Leave her alone man ,she's not worth it, if she still wants you, she'll come back. In the mean time,enjoy yourself, go to the pub, meet new people, women first,go on a holiday with your daughter, take a (girl)friend with you, get a new haircut, wear new clothes, go out on dates (movies,...),go to the gym, just don't waste your time anymore;i did that for a year and i'm still the bad guy in her eyes...who cares anymore

ME BS 32
(X)W 31
D-day 28 dec 01
seperated since april 01
divorce due in september
4 y old girl-love of my life and miss her terribly when she's not with me

Wowie, zowie Big Star.

You didn't read the same stuff over and over and over as you read every other thread? Were you on a different forum? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Believe it or not, here is some very good news for you: she is a normal WS.

Why is this good? Because this means EVERYTHING you read and learn here applies DIRECTLY to your situation. You are right smack dab in the middle of the affair spectrum. Classic, classic, classic. The truth is, that they're all so similar that there are few outliers.

What does this mean for you? Plan A, Plan A, Plan A. Read, read, read as many threads here as you can and apply the lessons and advice to your situation. Respond to other posters and offer YOUR advice when you can. This gives you practice for applying the logic to yourself.

Did you hear that Dolly Parton is buying up all the Big Star, Piggly Wiggly, and Harris Teeter grocery stores? She's gonna rename them Big Wiggly Teeters.

" Keep up the plan A thing for you for a couple of months. "

I would suggest you read one of the posts from a few days ago titled "misapplication of Plan A". Plan A is meant to show the betrayer the positive changes that can occur if she returns. It should only be used for a short time before Plan B is implemented. My advice is to get advice by Dr.Harley as to what your next step should be. My observation has been that a long Plan A is more likely to end in divorce than putting plan B into action.

Thanks ark^^, Nick123 and everyone who replied.

After some thought and more reading on this board, I realized that indeed my W is in deeeeeep fog and the situation follows the pattern in almost every aspect.
I replay everything in my head and can almost see her next step.
What I am lacking is patience. I would like to fix things ASAP, so we can start the recovery, but W is not in a hurry it seems. I can't imagine WW with OM together for more than 2-3 months. I just hate to see her dumped and in deep withdrawal after that. If they could just drift apart like two ships at sea, that would be much better.

One thing that changed lately is that WW started to pay more attention to D. It looks like a competition with me that she got involved in, to show D that she still loves her. That is a good sign I hope.

Another thing that gives me some hope is that she is looking for some guidance as to how to fall back in love with me. She says that this is impossible and once love is lost, there is nothing that can bring it back.

I think that it is too early to direct her to any information source that would show her the way, "Fall in Love, Stay in Love" for example. She is not ready and will reject it as she rejected all my efforts from before.

Thanks again to everyone who replied,

BigStar

How goes thing Biggy??

just checkin' in

Big Hello to everybody here at MB

I am back after almost a month of absence to report on the activities ;-)

Well, plan B started April 14. The letter I wrote was initially long, but after some trimming became a half a page document and was delivered in person. She started to read it right away but after the first two lines and a sarcastic smile stopped reading. She called several times after in regards to some financial matters and taxes, but I didn't reply. Several phone calls with no messages left after that.

A week after, there was a "misunderstanding" about the times and place she was supposed to pick up D and she ended up waiting for me at our house and me waiting to pick up D at her apartment. I knew they were not in the apartment because the car was not there. So I waited for 1 hour thinking that they went to a movie or something (it was Easter Monday). No big deal. I can wait.

Then I looked at the apartment window and saw that the light was on (it wasn't on before). I pressed the buzzer and nobody replied. I knew then that OM was there. No problem, I said to myself. I will wait some more until they come.
After another hour, OM comes down to me (first time I saw him in person) and tells me that they are waiting at home. I was calm on the outside, but boiling inside.

She went home with D being afraid to disturb the OM. Invents this story about the misunderstanding between us.

Needless to say that I came home furious, but trying to keep cool to find my D crying like I never seen her before. I assumed that she was told about the whole thing and that's why she is crying.

We had an agreement, that whenever we decide to tell her about the future, we would do it together so that she doesn't feel abandoned and lost. It looked that she did not keep her end of the bargain.

I went nuts. So I kind of helped her to the door and slammed it after. I picked up my baby and tried to calm her down. It took an hour. I called to apologize for I lost my temper (I have never done this before) only to be confronted by OM. He acted like Superman who just saved LL from a falling building or something.

I know that I LB-ed big time, and gave them the ammunition to justify their behavior, but it felt good nevertheless. I finally could tell myself that I can get off the roller coaster and never get back on. Let them ride alone from now on. I'll sit back and relax. Have a beer (could not have a drink before, as it would make me sick), go to a movie, work on some projects of my own, update my D's website (www.xenia.ca if you have a spare moment) and generally do things I like.

The plan B letter clearly asked to respect my privacy and she didn't make an effort to do it before that incident. Now she doesn't call, she doesn't enter the house at will like before. I don't contact her either. She REALLY changed towards D. They finally go places, cook, read, and have fun together. In her fog babble she blamed me for the fact that she doesn't pay enough attention to D. It makes me happier to see D more relaxed.

I still have my moments though. Some days are better than others, but overall things are improving. I got off the sleeping pill, don't miss any of my soccer games, eat well. I like the way I feel.

Waiting for developments. OM in our phone conversation that night said that they intend to marry, so we have to either sell the house or I would have to buy her out. I told them, any time, but I won't do the leg work. Let them deal with it. Plan B baby, plan B. The situation is not much fun, but beats what I was a while ago.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />