This is my first time posting-have been following
this forum for a few weeks-I'm in need of some support,direction-some will be possibly stunned,
this is long so here goes.I'm 42,married for 20 years,2 beautiful kids(8&11),my husband& I have
been self-employed for 17yrs(restaurant business),
successful(somewhat),beatiful home,good looking family.We built a large home,1yr later,next door
a huge elaborate bigger home will all the trimmings,very showy,new money,the husband is well
known in my city,she(my neighbor)and I become instant friends-6yrs go by, she(friend/neighbor)knows me/family very well-she knows I am miserable/unhappy in my marriage and have been for
years-it came to be that she almost felt sorry for
me,she was very boastful about their success,lifestyle etc.,-we (my H&I)bought their (neigbors)hot tub-1month later she walks over(summer night)with a bottle of wine,long story short,we're intoxicated(I'm not a drinker)she strips down and physically/sexually attacks me in the hot tub-my H comes out on the deck(in shock but loving it)she calls over her H-there we are the 4 of us-he the nieghbor never comes near me-
fast forward-2x later over the summer-he's fallen
"in love/lust" with me-I go to a black tie,fancy (televised)event with them(neighbor W&H)on the way
home she attacks me again in the back seat(she's drunk)he of course joins in-yes I know this is pathetic behavior-my H was not there,didn't want to go-the following week he&I began an 8 month A.
My H 2months into it suspected & put a tape recorder in the house-yes he(call him D)of course showed up knowing I was alone (no kids/H)-after that was exposed-more lies,deception carried on for another 6mos-I finally told my husband/close
friends-once it got back to him,he has never spoken to me again-we moved.All 4 of us ended up in court-the OM filed a harrassment order against
my H, my H called her (neighbor wife)and told her
about the affair-he OM of course denied it and told his W and her family that my H was making "terroristic threats"and was crazy.Also over that several months my H had taped several
phone calls-played a tape for the W next door where her H says to me "I love you-never admit to
. . .that we've had sex"-the W still was is denial-if all this isn't enough of a Jerry Springer show-to top it off-the OM manipulates his
W into a 3-some(me going along with it,but skeptical)2x in hotels and the 3 of us go to Vegas
for a 2 day sex binge.I told my H I was going with
her next door and another girlfriend to Chicago.
After all this mess, my H and have been to counseling-my community, friends,family (both sides)know-I feel totally isolated other than my children-my H is still with me-he is tortured by all the pain we inflicted-he still passes that man
in the road occassionally-his business is extremely successful,we feel like we're in H-I could go on with other details but this is too painful and disgusting-to top it off,I still feel an emotional connection with the OM,the temptation
to call him is overwhelming on a daily basis-please someone respond!My H still (after 9 mos have passed)thinks he may contact after all has calmed down with his W-I have heard he has taken her on trips every 6 wks-I'm sure he is trying to make up to her with his attention to her & money.

<small>[ May 15, 2003, 04:00 PM: Message edited by: claireb. ]</small>

Unfortunately, it is very believable, and in many ways, very common. Especially the lies all around, and the continued interest in the OM on your part. Click on the link in my signature line to get some help on the path to recovery.

Well,

Sort of a convulated story.

Are you bi?

Are you and your husband swingers?

Did you have a good reputation before?

Are your kids affected by this?

You say your husband is tortured by this. Is he willing to stick this out? Why do you think he is?

If this is public information, how did it become so? This is common knowledge?

If so, you have to move. People love to talk about people who can't keep their pants up. You will always be a source of gossip.

Second, you have a real problem in your marriage. Your husband is a better man than I, because I would have been gone by now. You need to start taking care of him. Go way out of your way for him. If you start trying to make him happy, you will spend less time on your own plight.

Third, you need counseling. A two day sex trip behind your husband's back is out of bounds. Some sex is making love, some sex is hot and steamy, and other sex is nothing but party sex. LV was was nothing but party sed. Should have been easy to live without. Does he know all of this?

I'm responding to your response MLM2-let me respond to your questions-I don't think I'm bi-
my neighbor/best friend (had the A with her H),I
think she fell in love/lust with me-it was a bizarre web-I think her&H fantasized about me when
they were in bed (these people have sex daily if not 2x per day)-ultimately they both wanted me-he
became obssessed with me-the 3 of us would go out
to dinner,lunch,movies-he(her H)told me once he would see us(his W&I)together as friends laughing,
enjoying each other's company,he wanted me to be a part of their lives (they are new money),he tried to convince his W to go along with this "plan",my H was taping phones in the house
and tried to tell her we(herH&I were having an affair)she constantly denied it-Anyway, next question-Are my H&I swingers?NO-however,about 4-5
yrs ago we went to LV with our friends/neighbor(yes the same people)the 2nd night we were there
they hired a hooker to have a 3-some-she sexually
went crazy on this woman-then the next night we rented a hooker-I went along to appease my H's fantasy of 3-some, it did nothing for me.When we got back in town a few months went by, a summer party occurred and she (the neighbor)had too much wine and blabbed to several women about the LV experience-everyone was shocked,including myself.
I've NEVER had a reputation or been viewed in my community or neighborhood as cheap or "loose"-
basically once I turned 40 and the constant influence of next door, social drinking and constant talk of sex from her next door-She was continually boasting about sex (frequency)with her H-she pretty much served me to him once it came to the hot tub experience-he told me months later-"I saw you in the hot tub, I wasn't going to
give up, I just had to have you."-this is a long sorted mess-if you want me to continue,please reply, it's sort of theraputic yet repulsive-I have much say about the last several months of the
A-my H ended up in jail for 2 days (the OMM called
the police on him)-Yes, my kids were affected-I
need to talk about that later.

Actually, the second read of your situation does not sound that egregious. Seems like you were preyed upon, that not only were your neighbors involved, but your husband stretched the boundaries too.

Sometimes, posts get lots of responses. For some reason, some don't. I'm happy to help you as I can, and can do it in a pm format if you wish.

I think the first thing I would do is re-establish boundaries. Once you've overstepped them, it is easier to recognize them in the future. Your marriage has been invaded, so to speak. Maybe you might want to look at what conditions allowed this to occur.

The other boundary to put into place is for your kids. Bedroom play needs to stay in the bedroom. It is not for kids consumption. Whatever the sources of news about your s_x life, you need to do whatever you can to get them to shut-up. If they are nasty people, try to get them to realize the impact on your/their kids.

Really, I think that some form of understanding between you all is necessary. Jail, kids, still infatuated. This is so unstable.

I think that you need to include your husband. S-x play is great, but their needs to be some boundaries here too. With all the boundaries in flux, how were you to know where to stop?

I know this must be a very emotional situation, but calm heads work best.

Good luck.

Stacyseman,

I read your original post and couldn't really figure out who was doing what to whom, because "he" seemed to mean your H and OM often.

However, following your second post, I have a question.

What do you want to do?

You are hurting your children.
You are hurting your H.
You are hurting your marriage.

You are even hurting yourself.

What do you want help with here? That is the question. It seems you were "sort of " prayed upon, but really it seems that you agreed to sex with OM and his W. You mentioned that your H taped things, but you didn't say what he has done with that information now that he knows you are having an affair.

It is clear he has strong feelings about this, but him ending up in jail surely hurt him deeply as well as embarressed him and your children. All because ... ?

So let us know where you want to go. If you want to rebuild your marriage there is work to do. If you want to be a plaything for OM and his W, then really I don't see much we can help you with.

It is your decision and your call.

God Bless,

JL

yes!I need to explain with a little more clarity,
the mess I got myself into-it has been almost 1yr
since contact (actual A)with the OMM-all 4 of us(2couples)ended up in county court in May last yr-
the OMM filed harassment charges against my H because my H called his W and confirmed to her about our A and then my H called the W's parents,
who also live in our development-once we were all at the courthouse our attorney filed for an extension-I brought w/me a box of tapes,gifts and
misc items given to me by OMM,they were obviously
in shock-OMM had told me several times, I don't care if he's taping (then bought me a cell ph to use only to talk w/him)he (OMM)said tapes aren't
admisable in court.He was misinformed,a Judge can
listen to whatever he choses.I know this story is
complicated but bear with me-I then a few days later called the OMM(the man I was having the A w/)asked to speak to him for a few secs(I wanted
him to drop those ridiculos charges)face it-come clean with your W-it's exposed-he just told me he
can't talk to me and hung up.However,later that day he withdrew his charges, if we would withdraw
our harassment charges against him(our attorney advised us to file to ensure he would leave me alone).Sorry if this complicated, it's difficult
to describe w/o getting distracted w/ details.
I will post or reply again later, my kids just got
home from school-they are a joy to me!

oh by the way-MLM what is a pm format you mentioned in your reply?Also as far as people gossiping, noone really has had the nerve to say anything directly to me,a lot of it has died down,
but peopole don't forget-my family (only have 1 sister, 1 brother, parents deceased)hardly speak to me, not very forgiving-I have many broken relationships to mend,it takes time-I've had to make a few new friends-the people we (my H&I)were
social with don't communicate with us anymore-guess they weren't really genuine. These last 8-9
months I've spent most of my time w/H and kids-we've stuck very close because we're all hurting
on different levels.I post again maybe later-thank you for your replies!

Just a couple of questions for clarification SS.

What does your H want right now? Is he trying to save the M with you? What is status of R with you and OM right now? Is it over?

And one more question, and probably the most important, are you and your H getting counseling? It sounds like you need it, you especially. I don't really know you, and I am kind of generalinzing here, but your behavior is generally indicative of abuse of some sort. Is that the case? I only ask because my W and I were both abused as children and this can lead to some very "extreme" behavior as an adult if not dealt with. Please update us a little more, this forum is here to help.

MTD

Hi MTD-I'm trying to remember your questions in order-My H moved out for about 5 wks at the end of my A -he has been back since last May-we have been to separate counseling&together for MC-due to
financial constraints we haven't been back since last Oct.We had to move last summer because the man I had the A with lived next door!!We have been
reading the bible, praying, going to church,reading books (SAA) was the best so far.
I have had NC with the OMM since last May-he refused to talk to me once I exposed him to a friend of his wife's.One year ago (this week)I did
not hear from him for almost 10 days-I figured he
decided to be with his wife-anyway after 10 days I
called him-(my H was out of town to get away from me for awhile)-the OMM said to me "I've been waiting for things to cool down. . nothing's changed, you (meaning me)have the patience of a gnat, everything is fine with us. . I can't give you up, I willing to continue," I then told him
go back and stay with your W, she'll do anything for you-he said, "it's not the same,..apples to oranges.." Anyway, the point of this is-my H doesn't trust this man (predator),he thinks he's
just waiting to hear that my H &I have separated
or till things calm down with his W. My H stills
asks me every 2 wks, "have you heard from him"?
I can't remember your other questions-please respond.

Am responding to your other question-my H has stayed through this whole horrible shameful ordeal-he has lost most of his friends, he is embarrassed in our community-he will and has gone
to great lengths to "win back"my love for him-we
have been married for 20yrs-others have wondered
why I put myself through that abuse -allowing the
man I was having the A with to include his W-we were both "appeasing" him, why was I willing to settle for being NO.2?His own wife asked me this very question when the 3 of us were in LV for a 2 day sex binge.I was never abuse (physically) as a child-my mother died when I was 8, I was raised by my Father -btw, the man I had the A with had similar characteristics to my Father who I adored
and he has been passed away for 7yrs.See any correlations there?

You are right, this OMM is a selfish predator. He only cares for himself. He does not care about his wife, your H, or your children. If he did he would not have said what he said.

I probably is thrilled by the chase or the secrecey of it all.

Do not have any contact at all. No phone calls, no e-mail, no "hi" in passing. If he says "hi" to you on the streets, keep walking and ignore him.

You will build new friendships, your kids will make new friends. Are they in the same school as before, can their schools be changed?

If it makes you feel any better, I've heard stories even more convoluted and bizarre than yours (but I admittedly run with a pretty strange crowd)!

What is it that you are looking for? Did you just need a place to vent and discuss what happened? Are you having problems reconnecting with your husband and needing to explore some ways to deal with that? How can people here help you best?

Stacy,

It seems that OM is sort of out of the picture, so I will ask again. What do you want to do? What do you need help with? Where do you see your future?

The answers to these questions will help in our responses to you.

God Bless,

JL

Hi S,

Wow, that's some story and I'm real sorry you're hurting the way you are the moment. It'll be a tough road to recovery and you're going to have a lot of negative feelings about yourself and what happened.

It seems to me like this whole escapade was just pure sex - not much love and stuff involved. Bit like getting loaded - feels great at the time but boy, does it hurt the morning after. If there's no love involved then it won't last anyway. So drop all thoughts of the OM. You need to focus on you and then getting your life back on the road.

When was the last time you did something alone with your H? Like, when did you go to see a film or doing something together?

good luck,

my H&I have been working toward getting our lives back on track-he is 100% committed to do whatever
it takes-I for some reason(s)won't completely let
him in-during my A I thought/felt or maybe was just manipulated into believing that the OMM really loved me-he went through rearranging a lot
in his life and kept telling me "you have no idea the affect you have on me, you'll never know..."-
he confessed to his W several times that he loved
me and can't help it-and toward the end she(OMS)called me and asked me if he has told me he loves me as much as he loves her(he had blown up at her
and confessed this).I know this sounds confusing-
this OMM told me "I will haunt you forever",am I
just letting this manipulation get the best of me
instead of moving on with my life?All indications are that they (OMM&W)have moved on.. .lots of trips, fancy Hummer,new dog etc.,-she(OMM'sW)told
her friend that told me "well, I got my H back",
after I exposed him. Believe it or not, everyday I'm trying to focus my efforts in the now-it's
difficult (I may not be ready yet)to forgive these
people(his W as well took part),or maybe I'm just
looking to blame them for their dysfunctions-I pass that OM in the road occassionally, he just glares at me-I know he feels that I betrayed him-
he's so self-absorbed.I want to have loving feelings toward my H again, this is taking longer
than I expected-why should I feel jealous that those other two are off on expensive trips-why should I care?

Stacyseman,

Your, um, "adventures" remind me a lot of the things that I used to do in college. Lots of boundaryless drinking, sex (in my case drugs) etc. Thank God I got all of that out of my system before I became a mother.

The only thing that I can offer is this - I have spend a great deal of my short life living without any boundaries. I understand how freeing it can be, but also how painful at the same time. I have consistently found ways to thwart externally imposed boundaries. My situation was once described as a car speeding downhill out of control. The breaks broken, the steering wheel broken etc. What I have found for myself is that these situaitons are not fixed over night. It took me a long time to have a life that I felt good about.

I had to deal with the issues one by one. First I fixed the breaks. The car was still speeding downhill, but atleast one thing was on track. Next the steering, etc. Get the idea.

Today I lead a life that is astonishingly sane (read boring) thank god. I love the life that I have, but there are days that I miss the high drama of what was. I was the OW in a 10 year A. I still love xMM, but live peacefully without him. And as a living ammend to him and to myself I leave such situation alone completely.

The list of people to be forgiven should begin with you. Forgive yourself then step by step you can be about the business of righting all of hte other wrongs.

Good luck
KS

KS-thank you for your kind reply-yes, I guess once
I turned 40 and took the "plunge"into the hot tub
you keep taking it a step further-you tell yourself, noone will ever know, it's just pure fun-I told the OMM,I'll go to my grave and never
tell-well in the end everyone ended up hearing some bit (whether factual or not)-if I had not exposed him, I would have been a mental case by now and what good would that have done my children?That OMM never planned to leave his W,never claimed to unless she was "bothering"him
and making life inconvenient for him with her suspicions.I was a virgin til I was 20, when I met my H-I guess I did all the bad things in reverse.I will be honest with you though-for awhile it was a living fantasy-wealthy man,fancy hotels,dinners,clothes,took a trip,flowers delivered,some women have asked me questions about
that kind of life as if they hope to experience it one day.I think about his W and the lies she
lives with, he will never tell her the truth,and
I think she prefers it that way-that is the price you pay for a certain lifestyle-it's sad, some women that know her as an acquantance say she is pitiful.In the meantime it is a day by day process, I'm still here, my H&I are still together
with our kids.Do you think it's true, you reap what you sow?Will that man ever feel the pain he inflicted?By all indications not so far-he's in the public eye and thriving, maybe it's just an illusion?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by stacyseman:
<strong>Do you think it's true, you reap what you sow?Will that man ever feel the pain he inflicted?By all indications not so far-he's in the public eye and thriving, maybe it's just an illusion?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I've actually been thinking about this issue quite a bit over the last few days. My own spiritual beliefs are that you do indeed pay the price for your actions, either in this life, or the next one. It may be a physical price, but it will most definitely be a spiritual/emotional/psychological price.

My views of morality are different, I think, than many of those who post here. My morality is tied up in being honest, being fair, trying not to hurt others, being true to your vows and promises, taking responsibility for your actions. It is not so much tied up in the physical list of "this activity is *wrong*".

So, do I think he will have to pay a price for having sex with two women? Nope, you were all consenting adults who knew what was going on. I don't think that was inherently wrong. Will he have to pay a price for lying, to himself and to others? Yep, sooner or later, he will.

This has freed me from my sometimes overwhelming desire to wreak vengence on those who hurt me or my family. It is not my responsibility to punish them - they will punish themselves eventually. (I do, however, recognize that there are some circumstances which would drive even me past this spiritual belief - such as dealing with someone who hurt my children, I think).

Stacey, it sounds like you still have a very strong connection to this man, and it is eating you up from the inside out. Maybe you could post asking others in similar situation how they eased out of that connection?

KS41 thank you, your reply was helpful, I enjoy reading other perspectives-I would like to post that topic/question to anyone in this forum who may have been in this emotional predicament-I "feel"that I'm not over it because maybe I really fell "in love" with him-it's sort of self-
torture.I'm hesistant to wallow in my emotional
attachment on this forum because it is disrespectful to those that are truly suffering from their spouse's betrayal.My own H still has bad dreams and sometimes feels like everything is
"tainted" yet we go on and try to be forgiving of
each other.