My H and I live across the street from OW and her H (she has since moved out of the house.) We had considered them very close friends for years. We all had the same circle of friends and had a lot of contact with them socially. They have three small daughters and we have two daughters, ages 8 and 13. We have vacationed with the other family at least twice in the last year and a half. My H was OW's H best man at their wedding. OW and her H have had marital problems from the beginning. They have been married for 7 years. The latest problems between them started the night of Super Bowl (January 26.) At that time, both my H and I (and circle of friends) were supportive of OW and thought she had validation of moving out of the house. She and the kids went to stay with friends (outside of "our" circle of friends) but I was in contact with her frequently and tried to be supportive of her. She had frequent conversations with my H on his cellphone. I was aware they were in contact but did not know how often. About two weeks after she moved out she got a part time job at a restaurant. I knew H had had lunch there while she was working (I encouraged him) but again, did not know how frequent. I did not think anything was "wrong" during this time. The woman that OW was staying with, and the OW's spouse, both told me that something was not "right" and that my H should not be going to OW's workplace for lunch so frequently. I disagreed and said that H was just supporting her (OW) and there was nothing going on between them.

I discovered my husband's "emotional" affair March 7 (not sure if it wasn't sexual also) OW's husband had taped their conversations because he felt something was going on between my H and his wife for awhile OW's husband played brief bits of the taped conversations, which was enough proof for me. I was very angry with both H and OW and I told OW when I confronted her that afternoon, to never call my H again. I did threaten her. She called him three days later on a Monday. Every one thought she would pack up her kids and leave for another state (which she had done before when she had an affair with another man.) I thought OW would try to call H again and told H that if she did to please tell her not to move and take the kids away from her husband. I repeatedly asked H if she had called, which he denied, but then about 10 days later admitted that she had, indeed, called him. He knew I would find out from the cellphone bill. I was very angry that he again lied to me. He has since told me over and over that he has not had any contact whatsoever with her. I do not believe him. It took several more weeks before I could listen thoroughly to the taped conversations (only a total of three). I literally was sick to my stomach. What was said was worse than I imagined. The cellphone bills from the past two months indicated that OW called my H 2 to 3 times, maybe more, (H admits) for extremely long conversations. Some calls were close to 30 minutes in length (this is while he was working!) During this time the cellphone bill does not indicate that he was calling her. They had recently had caller ID installed. She had moved back in with her husband at this time. On the taped conversation she had mentioned that he better be careful about calling her because of the caller ID. I would like to go into greater depth of the conversations that I heard, but I'm sure you get the picture. Lots of sexual innuendo, mentioning of not letting "her" (me) get suspicious and a lot about trying to meet the next day after work (sounded to me that they had done this frequently).

For the first 10 days or so, I felt anger, rage, than devastation that led to frequent suicidal thoughts (which still come and go). At this time, H told me that "he cared for" OW and was only being supportive of her emotionally and what she was going through then. On the tape he clearly states that he is in love with her (as she with him) even though he has denied it to me. At first he was very angry (mainly towards OW's H and me!), but on occasion he would say he was sorry that I was going through this. At times my H and I would try get along. I admit that with more and more info I would get upset. H repeatedly says he did not buy OW anything for Valentine's Day, but I found on the bank statement that "he was charged double" of what he bought me from Bath and Body Works. OW's H has told me that OW claimed to have bought herself a Bath and Body Works gift that very same day. OW's H explained the gift in detail to me. OW was also gone for 6 hrs the day before when no one knew where she was. The people she was staying with said she was wearing a Valentine bra and panty set that she supposedly bought for estranged H. He said he never got to see it! This is proof to me that my H did buy her something but still continues to deny it.

H has admitted to going to her work place for lunch and has said that OW did, several times, meet he and his partner for lunch at other places, with out me being told about it.

OW's H accused both them of doing something last August. At the time I did not believe it but now I don't know if something was going on. Last fall's cellphone records indicate that he did call her frequently when her H should have been at work. Again, some of these conversations were quite long. It appears that he called her, and perhaps she called him, MUCH more than either called me. He denies this and says it has only been since January.

H has continued to be very angry towards me if something is brought up. He has said that this is all my fault but denies that he did anything wrong except for not telling me everything. He does not think this is an affair because, he claims, that they did not have sex. I do not know if I believe him or not….recent indications have given me ideas that they did. But, still, the emotional affair is killing me.

We have lost our circle of friends because of this. Actually, my H has. I speak with my best friend about this, but will probabaly have only limited contact with the other friends because of this. H has lost two work clients (friends) because of this.

A couple of Saturdays ago when we were at my parent's house, H got very angry with me because I answered his cellphone and caller ID did not show up. It was a bill collector, but why would he be so angry? We had a fight that night at home and he left the house around 6 or 7pm and did not come home until about 5 in the morning (totally out of character for him). The next morning I realized that he erased all incoming calls. Before he erased all incoming calls on the call log I had indication that he had erased a received or missed call. (We have ATT cellphone which shows on call log the most recent 10 calls from each received, missed and dialed categories.) OW has an apartment now, but supposedly no phone yet. I think they are in contact with each other by pay phone, but since yesterday, I've found out that her apartment is literally 3 blocks away from his work. I think he stops by early morning before he has to be into work (and when her kids are still sleeping), or in the afternoon when her H has the kids. There are so many clues, but I could be losing my mind and they can be easily interpreted one way or the other.

This is the second (emotional, if not sexual) affair my H has had. The last was almost three years ago, again with the W of friends of ours. I think it took me two years to totally recover from that affair. After he said that he had stopped all contact with this woman, I found out three months later that he was still in contact with her. He was attempting to call her late at night from our home (her husband worked late nights) when he thought I was asleep. Her husband had put a complaint into H's work place and they had traced the phone calls to OW's work place from a phone line of his place of business. There had been 18 calls in less than two months. H got a several day work suspension because of this. Again, he blamed everyone but himself.

We have had one session with a therapist together last Monday. H said that I drink way too much (which I have been since losing my job last Sept. and going through an unbelievable depression, and since D day), which I admit to. I am working on this very hard…..haven't had a drink in a week, while he drinks 4-5 beers in front of me each nite) and so, blames me and OW's H for why he did this. The therapist focused on my drinking and, in my opinion, gave H a "get out of jail free card". Therapist's ending comments to me: "Will you make an appointment with me to talk about your heavy drinking?" Yes. Therapist's comments to H: "Will you stop all contact with OW to the best of your ability?" Yes, to the best of my ability. I went to my session and therapist was concerned about my suicidal thoughts, insomnia, lack of appetite, but did think I was in the right direction with my drinking. I told him I was going to drink on the weekends, and he said that what I was doing was a great start. I have been on and off anti-depressants in the past. I really feel like I need them now, but my therapist (because of my drinking) will not refer me to a Dr. who could subscribe more.

My questions:
If it has been 5 weeks, why is he still so angry? I understand the depression he is going through of giving up his "addiction", but do I put up with it? I have tried very hard to be loving, meeting his emotional needs, weighing my words before I speak, trying to avoid talking about the affair…..generally, trying, in a loving way, to respect his feelings and what he is going through (after this website, I think I know more about what he is going through than he does).
What about my "gut" instinct? I still think H is seeing her. She has nothing else now…..her husband has left her because their marriage is now irrepairable to him. I now know where she lives, what do I do if I do catch them?
Do I just try to have "faith" that he is telling me the truth that he isn't having any contact with her? He is so depressed right now, (financially is probably the biggest factor at the moment). He said last two nights ago that he doesn't have the answers to his questions. I don't think he even has the questions to get answers! Again, probably the depression he is going through. (My brother (who loves my H totally) has said that I have to know if this is still going on. I'm not sure if I can take it, though I've always said that what I need is the truth.)
My Plan A is giving this marriage 6 months, which in the meantime, I will love him, show him affection, doing everything I can for our family (limit drinking), helping financially by taking the first decent job that comes along (not wait for the bigger money, but still financially reasable.)

God, I love my husband and for the majority of our marriage (14 yrs) I know I was everything to him. I am willing to fight hard for this marriage. I do think we are meant to be together. Please, anyone, give me some advise (any advise) and please give me encouragement! Thank you so much.

Update: We have now had two sessions with the therapist together. I have had two sessions by myself. I caught him two days ago at her apartment when he left for work early again. This was the morning after our latest session with MC that, in my opinion, went extremely well. Of course they both swear that it was the first time since "ending" it. I cannot stand the lies. I called my therapist immediately upon finding out and had a session with him yesterday. It was very helpful to me. Both MC and myself have come to the conclusion that H does not know how to "get out of this A". I'll write more later. Again, thanks so much.

dear willow--i am so sorry for all you are going through. you are new here so im gonna give you the read all you can speech. read all the info here and get surviving an affair(by dr. harley), also his needs her needs.

you said this is not the first time--what type of counseling did you do last time, if any?

definately get the meds. your general physician can prescribe them if you need them. mine did.

i know how frustrating it is to go through this you know there is something going on, and it hurts but you know if you say something he will get mad my h did any way!he didnt want to leave the house, didnt want to loose me but when i told him you are, just stop seeing her and well be ok? but he would cry and say i cant, i cant stop! even though we have such a great marriage 16 yrs, he is so addicted to this ea he cant stop not for me not the kids nothing he is so determined to see how far he will go with ow. he says he doesnt love me like he used to i know hes lying to himself and me, he loved me from day 1 and every day after that its not till she came along that he changed, i have not much else to say exept i know exactly how you feel! just keep reading, it does help alot to be hear and read that other people are going through the same thing! i know you will be ok, because i hope the same for myself and my kids <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

dear nicco,
A reply! Thank God, someone could read that "book" of a post and was kind enough to respond.

About meds....I've already tried my primary physician and he won't prescribe them. I know,a pretty lame excuse and everyone I've spoke with has already suggested the same thing. Maybe time to get another doctor.

About the first A. I begged H to go to MC, but he flatly refused and that is why we are in the same situation today. At least this time he is attending. At our first session, I truly thought our MC was was focusing on the wrong things and that I was all to blame. Now I know differently. My H is at a state of mind where the MC has to use kid gloves to get through to him. Otherwise, H will again refuse to continue therapy. My H is not very introspective (which my friends have commented on of late)and he never has been. Like I've said, he doesn't even have the questions in order to get his answers. In my private session I mentioned to MC that H's father had always "ran around" on H's mother before their divorce when H was around 11. MC commented, "Okay, now we've established a family history of this". I told him that that was probably one of the reasons why H would not complete the "evaluation" that MC wanted.

Thank you for your support and kind words. I will continue to need them.

Willow, have read your story and horrible turn of events-I think I can help you-but first read my 2
posts (I am new here also)my first post is under
General QuestionsII under "Unbelievable story" read that first-I actually was the OMW and had an
A with the OMM next door-my H taped in our house and phone conversations and played a tape for the
neighbor (she and I were best friends)OM"s W next
door-the experience that unfolded was tragic, destructive and I may be able to offer some suggestions just from my experience--obviously you
know your'e H is lying to you-some of the things he is denying are verbatim what the OMM I had an A
with was telling his W. It's layers of deception-
I agree with the other replies, read as much as you can-stay strong, do you have kids? if so take care of them-be good to yourself...unfortunately I
am taking my daughter to a friends right now-I will respond more later.

Dear Members,
Again, thank you for all your responses.....(malcswife, thanks a bunch!....claire, I did get to read your posts and thanks). Right now I want to respond to each and everyone, but am feeling guilty because I have so much to do at the moment. I must start grooming my dogs, laundry, floors, cleaning this damn place of a mess. You can guess that I am trying to please my H in any way possible while at the same time doing something constructive for me. PLEASE keep the replies coming with any advice you can give me. I really need this. Thank you all. I'll post more later.

Willow

Hi new friends and thanks for responding. malcswife.....I am returning your kind support back to you and while appreciating your thoughts. Yes, my husband does not know how to end this affair, but is still in denial and will not cry, though I can see at times that he is close to crying.....that's when I know the truth will come out, but so far, he can hardly show remorse. I hate the web of lies he's created and yet, I still feel sad for him that he can't come clean with me or even himself. Last Thursday, I was having an extremely bad day and I called and asked him if he could come home (said he couldn't)and told him that I didn't know if my hard work was worth the marriage. He hesitated for several moments (I silently freaked) and said that he would be home in less than two hours and we would talk. I thought he was going to drop the bomb shell than and tell the truth. I've come to the realization that within a short amount of time the WS can collect their thoughts and emotions and "play the game" again. When we were able to talk, that was when he was close to tears but held back and didn't tell me the truth but only said that he didn't know what he wanted out of life or our marriage. He did tell me that he didn't know if he could stop seeing her and was afraid it was going to happen again with either her or with someone else. (When I saw him at her place on early Tuesday morning he said "I told you I thought that this would happen".) Great comfort there. Oh, he also asked how many times I had "checked up on him" at OW's place. Okay, you motherf!@#$$%&^*&, obviously, not enough! I hate these lies!!!. This is not my husband! Later I will let you know about my confrontation with OW later on that day. Am I a fool to think that I can trust her more than my H? (I have always been known for being extremely truthful but careful of peoples feelings.....ALWAYS being known for being gullible, because I have the heart that believes everyone....even if I can "read" people.) After all, she is a woman (with a buried heart)but I feel like I might actually be able to reach her. I still think that I blow smoke rings up my own a&&. I know that I grasp at any and all straws.

Claire....I will respond later, but thanks so much for your support. (We have lots in common, close in age, children's age are close....but enough about that....I will have to reply later.)

Willow

Hello Willow by the bay,

Welcome to the MB site, where you will find it to be a life source that I believe God has put in place to help those seeking to have their marriages saved. You will find that there is a wealth of information on this site that will help you understand the dynamics of A and the steps you can take in facilitating marital recovery. Understand that affairs are a senseless act of selfishness and sinfulness. Although, we come to sites such as this one because a great offense has occurred within our marriages, we soon come to the realization that we must take care of (love) ourselves so that we can prepare for the battles/war that may be ahead of us. Take care of our children who at times can be neglected because we are so self absorbed in our pain and grief. Don’t take what your spouse may say at this time as the gospel truth, because their thinking is altered by the sin of adultery. They may take behavior that is uncharacteristic of them. Then as time goes on we will begin to look at self from a different perspective, not merely as a victim but also as one who may have played a part in the deterioration of our marriage although, you are not to take responsibility for your spouses violation of your covenant of marriage.

Remain hopeful. Surround yourself around people who love you and will join you in your desire and faith to save your marriage. Be encouraged because there are many who are and have been where you are right now. Search this site. Read and learn as much as you can about affairs. Get in the discussion board as often as you can. Read about the those who have made it through. Most importantly don’t let your wayward spouses decision to betray you by having an affair be an indication of your self worth. I applaud you for your courage in coming to this site.

May God Bless you and keep you and your family in His care,

WR

Dear WR, thank you for your kind words and inspiration! One thing that I know, I WILL NOT have an affair in retaliation to his. I could, but definately will not. This board and website have been a Godsend to me. I appreciate all the encouragment and advise. Every response is another voice who hears my pain, understands and listens. Keep em coming! I have an unbelievable support group with my two dear friends (actually more than two) my stepmom, my brother and now my therapist, who makes me think, understand and find answers for myself. I will hold my children dear to my heart....try to concentrate on them through my pain, and will continue to believe, even with a proud heart and mind, that my marriage is worth saving. (For all of you.....I am going to get Dr. Harley's book about affairs tomorrow.) Please continue the support and prayers....I definately need them.

Willow

dear willow-how are you doing? have you sought out another doc??

bump

Willow by the bay,

It is nice to have a support system and although this is terrible thing to go through, but it sure is nice to know that we are not alone in our struggles. I will remember you in my prayers. I pray that your road to the begining of recovery won't be a long one.

WR

willow--im worried about you, are you ok??

please post and let us know your ok.

♥willow$hearts;

Dear nicco and kind people,
Sorry it has been awhile since I last posted. I am okay for the moment but as you well know, what an emotional roller coaster this is.

This past Thursday my 8yr old daughter had a baseball game (H helps coach). My D got a triple and a grand slam and then the MVP ball for the second game in a row. I was on such a high! It was very exciting and I was sooooo proud of her. Later that night H was very quiet and contemplative (boy, that's a big word for him). I had been trying very hard not to bring anything negative up but I asked one more time what was going on. He told me that he drove by OW that day on the street and she rolled up her windows and refused to look at him. He said that it really bothered him and that he needed "closure" and this wasn't the way to "end it". I just listened. Finally, he gets out of the chair and says he has to see her right now. He said "at least I'm telling you, otherwise I'll just do it behind your back". I told him that I couldn't believe I was saying this, but to just go. Can you believe I gave him permission to go see her??!! He came back about 30 minutes later and said she wasn't home.

Since then and all through the weekend he has been moping around and not speaking more than a word or two to me. I'm not sure if he really wanted his closure or to end it, but his pride was hurt badly.

Yesterday I found out thru my friend that OW is seeing (I assume also sleeping) with another man. I am praying that it's true and hot and heavy with this guy. I didn't tell my H about it. I'm trying not to mention anything about the A or check his cellphone, his whereabouts, or drive by her place again.

I had a few hours of happiness with my dear friends from out of town this weekend. But as soon as they left, H was in his mood again. He used to be such a fun and very affectionate guy. Now he refuses my advances to have sex, etc. I just feel like I'm being punished in too many ways and that it's not ever going to end.

We have a session with MC later on today. I wonder if he'll show up.

I'll post later. Thank you all for your support!

Willow

willow-glad to hear you enjoyed a few hours with friends--thats important.

your husband is going through withdrawal. its hard, hang in and keep posting here for strength. he will also go through guilt most likely-it sucks.

read up on plan a and tell us how you are doing.