H_P: I have read SAA and, in fact, sent my original copy to OMW. No doubt my WW is addicted to OM and he to her, but I really helps to know that you and others managed to escape.
As far as anniversary goes we just got back from FC and he said WW should get nothing from me. That WW must understand that this is not an anniversary like the others but, if she chooses, our next one could be.

2long: Thanks, always, for being here. I follow your story, and your determination and patience are a inspiration. Godspeed.

Any other MB who have been through an anniversary while in PB? I would like to hear from you.

<small>[ August 28, 2003, 10:58 PM: Message edited by: 23down ]</small>

Got through anniversary well, thanks in large part to all of you.
I have had absolutely NC with WW. Older D went to lunch with WW once last week and spoke to her once this week, younger D has not seen WW and spoken to her only once since PB letter day (8/19/03). Ds say that WW sounds extremely sad but this has been offset by the fact that she has spent the last two weekends with OM. They think that our best chance is to keep our distance and hope that WW hits bottom again, this time without any interference from us.
PB has had the desired effect of allowing me to distance myself from the pain, but seems to have done very little to effect A. WW is seeing OM more than ever before, and he is no longer living with his W. WW has removed all of her rings. Now she is moving into her own apartment and has signed a year long lease.
Had the house appraised yesterday. Locked in a good rate last month hoping to lower payment so that, if things go bad, I will be better able to afford it on my own. Should have a closing date on refinancing soon and WW will have to be involved. Also WW told younger D that she will be able to move into new apartment 9/15/03 and, since she is planning on taking some furnture, dishes, etc. from our house some type of contact is now imminent.
As soon as the closing is complete I will need to decide on how to proceed. I do not feel that I am ready to give up, but I think I will try once again to present WW with new legal seperation papers in order to protect myself financially. I am afraid, however, that if we reach an agreement WW will now want to attach disillusion papers before she will sign and then our M will legally be over.
Common sense tells me that it may be time to move on, but my heart tells me to keep trying and I want to be certain that I have given PB time to effect the A. Even if it doesn't I think for many reasons that this A is doomed to die in time. But WW told a friend recently that if A were to end and she were to come home now she would be gone again in two years. If I could believe that WW would be willing to work on our M when A ends I would hold out until hell freezes over, but she seems determined to get out of our M.

23down,

Can you email me? Got something to tell you.

ISGIRL123@hotmail.com

Thanks.

23,

I have two important points to make:

#1: I think it's extremely good news that she and OM are planning to move in together. NOW the fun begins!!! Let them have to meet ALL of each others' EN's, let them both see the other with ALL their warts! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
Up to now, it's been "romantic" to try to steal time together when so many have "conspired" to keep them apart....yadda, yadda, yadda..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
Now the REAL fun begins!!!

#2: Remember - a "dissolution of M" paper is still just a piece of paper and doesn't mean you can't re-marry again some day. DOn't be so down about all this. UNfortunately, it's a progression of events that MUST play out, for the A and all its resulting fall-out to clear the fog out of the air.

Sit back and enjoy the show. I have a feeling once WW and OM move in together, things are going to get real interesting real QUICK!!

God Bless,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Remember - a "dissolution of M" paper is still just a piece of paper and doesn't mean you can't re-marry again some day. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Just seconding this. Believe me, when the affairees are around each other all the time without the 'constraints' of everyone else, all will fall apart.

Been there, done that one! The fog is sure to lift soon. She'll see the grass isn't greener at all.

Hang in there, and take care of you!

Hopeful_Person

Contact of a sort. WW emailed me last Tuesday to say she wanted to come to the house the next day and get her winter clothes and a few items for her apartment. I went to visit older D at college (about 1 1/2 hours away) for the evening so I was not home and maintained NC.
WW is moving into apartment tomorrow. OM moved out of his house and into his own apartment last month, but they are still 500 miles apart. I do not know how often they will be able to see each other, but they can now avoid the cost of a hotel room I suppose.
I have been in PB with NC for nearly four weeks and it seems to be allowing me to step back and look at my M in a different light. I still love WW, but I know I can never go back to the M we had before. Would I still be willing to accept WW back? Several months ago I would have said yes under any circumstances. Now I would need to be convinced of her willingness to truly work on our M to consider it, and though I know that is how it should be it scares me.

23 -

I'm in that same place. The more I look at my marriage and what I did and what I accepted that led to this place, the more I understand that I was pretty confused about what this whole marriage thing is about. I have a lot of learning and growing to do, and it seems to me that it only started when I had been away from the awfulness of it all for a while.

Now that I'm safe and able to get some distance, I'm going to spend a lot of time re-examining myself, my marriage, and all that's happened. I can't change my WP, but I can learn and grow myself. Part of that learning and growing is starting to reestablish and revisit the boundaries that I've created in my life up to this point. It's really not clear to me what decisions I'll come to. But that's the journey I'm on.

That and finding emptiness in all places in my life. Emptiness -- emptiness is -not- bad.

Emptiness is a table, all set with beautiful china and crystal glasses, tabble linens crisp and white, waiting for the joyous celebratory meal to begin.

Emptiness is the still darkness before the sunrise.

Emptiness is the new space you have after you clean your house, weed your garden, and shovel your walk. (Probably not all on the same day. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> )

Emptiness is the place of worship late on a Thursday afternoon, sunshine the only entrant into the chapel as it waits for the gathering of worshipers.

Right now, metaphorically speaking, I have a table that's got dirty plates and dishes on it, a yard full of brambles, and a house that hasn't been cleaned in 13 years.

I don't mind taking the time to clean up a bit before I invite someone new over. Even if that new person is my WP, whoever she ends up being after her own journey.

Duplicate!

<small>[ September 15, 2003, 01:55 PM: Message edited by: Just J ]</small>

Just an update for those following my thread. I have been in PlanB for over seven weeks now. I have not seen or spoken to WW, only two email messages. Things do not look promising.
WW has spent nearly every weekend with OM since renewed contact. OMW called last night and says that there is no way she will ever allow OM back, she is moving on. OM and OMW are now havng seperation papers drawn up, he has offered her a $3.8 million settlement. OM told her that he intends to buy a new house and move WW ASAP.
I do not yet have a closing date on the house but it should be soon and WW has told Ds she wants this all to be over. Ds are hurt, taking a wait and see attitude. They have told WW that they will never have anything to do with OM, that they do not want to meet him or ever even see him. She told them she is sorry they feel this way but it will not change anything and that in time they will have to accept him.
It is still hard to believe that after being together for nearly 30 years WW will leave for a man she has actually been with a total of 20 days over the past 10 months. Is it his money, is it the fog, or is it an exit affair out of control? I suppose time will tell.
I will continue with PlanB because I don't see that there is anything else to do.

23down,

I does defy comprehension doesn't it??? I think you should maintain your Plan B, until you have a plan for YOUR future. Then make the appropriate actions to secure it.

I wonder if your W realizes she risks losing her daughters?? She is assuming that they will get over it, and come back to a normal relationship with her and her OM. She may be wrong, if the girls do not want OM around, things such as weddings, graduations, ect. might be a wakeup call for your W, if she does move to live with OM.

I wish I could offer some sage advice, but sometimes things just don't make sense. Maybe your W is after the money and the good life that his money can bring, but I suspect she doesn't realize that he has children and you have children and the ones she wants in her life may not be and the ones she doesn't may be.

Well, one thing for sure "logic" is not part of the equation.

God Bless,

JL

23,

All I can say at this point is WOW! I have spent the last 2 hours reading your whole story. You are very persistant in your love for your wife. Long story short, I found out about 1 1/2 years ago that my husband had, had an affair 8 years prior. It was a 2 time thing and then ended. It was with a "family" member that I have seen several times since they were together, but before I knew. You have had it ALOT worse than me and I applode(?) you in your efforts. Even if it looks like they didn't work, (don't give up just yet though.) You have given me new hope in getting over this. If you can go through what you have and be ok I can go through what I need to. I guess I am not really sure just what I am trying to say. Just God Bless You and hang in there. I will try to do the same thing.

Jilted

PS I wasn't going to untill I read you thread. Thank You, for what it is worth.

23:

You are doing what you can with plan B and your Ds. There is absolutely nothing you have 2 be worried about regarding whether you're doing the right thing.

How or when your W responds 2 your plan B, if ever, is now up 2 her.

How your Ds want 2 relate 2 their mother for the rest of her life will be up 2 them. I personally doubt that they will ever have anything better than a strained R with the OM even if they do "establish diplomatic ties" at some fu2re date. In any case, it's up 2 them. She's still going 2 be their mom, messed up or otherwise. (My W didn't invite her dad 2 our wedding 28 years ago - he was an alchoholic, and had been kicked out the year before. But she did resume a R with him over the years, and he 2rned out 2 be a good grandparent 2 our kids).

Your Plan B is still pretty new. No telling what might happen in the coming months.

All my best,
-2long

As always, thanks for all replies.
jilted woman: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I wasn't going to untill I read you thread. Thank You, for what it is worth. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It is worth a lot. If I can believe that one marriage can be helped by my story, that my thread can give one person the push to keep trying, then I can keep posting. And I hope that I can help others who may be learning from my experience.
Sometimes I may seem pessimistic but I have not given up. I have worked hard on myself and on taking care of my Ds. I hurt for them, but we have grown closer than ever. I know that, regardless of the outcome, in the end I will be a better man. For my daughters, for myself, and hopefully for my wife.

<small>[ October 09, 2003, 09:04 PM: Message edited by: 23down ]</small>

I've been in PlanB for nine weeks now, NC of any kind with WW. I am just so tired..
OMW called Tuesday to say that she must go to Florida for three weeks. OM will be staying in their house while she is gone and she has asked me to let her know if WW goes to Canada because OMW does not want WW in her house.
WW called older D Friday to say that she would not be in touch with her for a while (WW knows not to call Ds when she is with OM) because she has taken a week off work and was flying to Toronto and that OM was going to take her "some place nice". Today WW left D a message giving a number where she could be reached in an emergency. We ran a reverse number check. Barbados!
So it looks like the A is taking another step forward. Up to this time WW and OM had never spent more than two days at a time together. Now they will spend a week together in the Carribean.
I wish that I could see that Plan B was having some effect. I can't stop thinking about WW. WW seems to have no reason to return to our M.
My question to those who have been here (and everyone else): At what point do you accept that WS is never coming home, or that you could never let WS come home?

23down,

Plan B is NOT designed to have an affect on them. It is designed to help you hold your love for your WW longer. The A has to end on its own. You really cannot change that. Plan B just makes it easier to hang on because the WS does not have the opportunity to LB you.

As to when to let go? That has a simply answer: when you are ready. When you don't feel any love or know you could never let them back in, then you take the actions that you feel you need to take.

All Plan B is is a waiting game. You wait until the A ends OR you have run out of love for them.

I know what she is doing is very rough on you, and your D's, but you can only control your life not her's.

I wish I could offer you some great advice to make this better but I don't know of any. You and your D's are doing a very good job. Hang in there as long as you can, then make the decisions as you need to.

God Bless,

JL

23Down,

How old did you say your daughters were? Teens right? You might try finding out if they have any rights in determining visitation. I'm prety sure my two oldest daughters can't be forced to have visitation if they don't want to as they are 17 and turing 16 in a couple of weeks. But even my 12 year old has successfully been able to assert her right to decline visitation. My daughters felt the same as your daughters:

"Ds are hurt, taking a wait and see attitude. They have told WW that they will never have anything to do with OM, that they do not want to meet him or ever even see him. She told them she is sorry they feel this way but it will not change anything and that in time they will have to accept him."

They said things like this to my husband about the other woman. Said they never wanted to meet her, that if he moved in with her (didn't know at the time he already had and was just keeping aparment on the side as a front) they would NEVER visit him at his place, would never accept the other woman, the adultery, the divorce as being OK, etc. They even made it clear to him that they were only spending time with him (during 3 month Plan A I was doing) because they were hoping he would stop affair and eventually come home - that if he ultimately chose other woman and divorce they probably wouldn't want to have anything to do with him after that!

Anyway, my daughters basically demanded to have control over the visitation themselves - said they would refuse to cooperate with any visitation plan imposed on them from anyone else (parents, law guardian, court). So I had it put in the separation agreement (binding into divorce) that the visitation is at the daughters' disgression and then just butted completely out. So they can basically refuse to see him or even to talk to him if they are hurt or angry by his latest lies or broken promises. And for the past week and a half they have refused to have anything to do with him and say they have given up on him and they think I should too.

I refuse to discuss visitation with my husband or to get involved in it. I told my daughters when I started Plan B that if they want to see him (their choice) he will have to pick them up and drop them off out front, he can't come in my home, and I won't accept any invitations to go along for visitation anymore. They said it won't be an issue because they aren't going to see him anyway.

Haven't posted on this thread for a while, but since it has been revived...(thank-you, icedancer)
Monday received email from WW asking for seperation papers to be sent (again) from my attourney to hers. She wrote, "If I haven't heard anything by the end of the week C (her attourney) will go ahead and file for divorce to get the ball rolling." Apparently the week in Barbados with OM has made her decide to push for some M ending agreement and she is going to force my hand.
The bank has finally called to say that the closing on the house can be next week. And so today my attourney sent the legal seperation papers. I will not file for disillusion or divorce, but WW may.

BS(Me)-49, WW-45
DDs-17 & 20
Married 24years now
D-day 2/16/03
PlanB 8/19/03

23:

"Apparently the week in Barbados with OM has made her decide to push for some M ending agreement and she is going to force my hand. "

Since you don't want a DV and you are in plan B, don't respond.

Continue 2 protect yourself and your girls legally, though.

And wait...

All my best,
-2long

Update. Saw WW for the first time in three months of PlanB last night. We both came to younger D Junior/Senior powder-puff football game. We sat at opposite ends of the stands until the forth quarter, when WW came over and sat beside me. WW complemented me (I've lost weight and have been working out) and tried to tell me about how things are going at work, etc.
People, I was an [censored]. I noticed that her engagement and wedding rings are off but she is wearing a ring I've never seen before (middle finger, left hand). For all I know she bought it for herself, but I assumed it was from OM. So I mostly ignored her, then LBd. WW asked how my parents were, I said angry at her for leaving her Ds. WW said she wanted to ask D to get something to eat after the game, I told her D wouldn't go with her. I had the perfect opportunity while in PlanB to make some serious love deposits and instead I tried to hurt her. OMG, WHY?
All I showed WW is that I haven't changed. Worse, I proved it to myself. Before I could get home I had to stop and throw up.
Each time I hurt her I die a little more inside. I love her too much to keep doing this to her. Despite everything that WW has done she does not deserve it. I cannot seem to fulfill her EN or make her happy, and I can't seem to stop hurting her even when I try.
Should I break PlanB and contact WW and apologize? I feel if I stay in PlanB it will be not so much to bring WW home or to get over her but to keep from doing this to her any more.

23:

Don't be so hard on yourself. And, yes, you do need 2 work on not being so hard on her, 2. If she felt attacked, then you probably did prolong the process some, but you are HUMAN. We all do that LB thang!

If it were me, I'd send an apology, but work at not making it a whiney, or grovelly apology.

But that's me. I never did plan B. Don't like it. The experts may advise differently.

Take care,
-2long