Hello all...I haven't posted in a long time simply because I'm TIRED of my story and feel everyone else is too. I internalize much more.

The other night, my H came home with D later than expected and he didn't call. Yet, he still arrived home SMUG, COCKY...not apologetic which which I guess sent me over the edge. It's the lack of respect and consideration.

H was supposed to be home by 6:30. Instead, it was 10:00 p.m. I had to call my MIL's to see if they were still there and they were because of my MIL's company...

When they arrived home at 10:00, he walked straight to the family room to turn on the Leafs game in overtime. I asked him why he didn't call to let me know he'd be late. His response? "Why do I have to? You could have guessed I was at my mother's..." Well, it was his tone. I laid into him a little. I was wrong but it's been so long since my last outburst.

The only problem? It was in front of my D. I don't like myself for that but sometimes, a woman has to battle.

Then H walks out the door and leaves me a heated msg on my voice mail at work saying that "I'm traumatizing our daughter"...I guess his departure has done nothing of the sort?

The other good thing...I did not respond to his voice mail at all. In fact, I haven't communicated with him since Wednesday. It is now Good Friday and I have painted eggs with D, made a bunny cake and of course, Easter cupcakes.

I look forward to your opinions, as always.

One more thing...no lawyers yet involved. One day last week, when he came on to me very heatedly, he asked me why I couldn't go to the lawyer with him. Of course, during the "heat", I replied, "I don't have the stomach for it." He said nothing.

It's been two years since d-day and the roller coaster lives on.

Happy Easter all of you.

<small>[ April 18, 2003, 11:25 AM: Message edited by: Terrified ]</small>

I've read your posts, replied on a couple...to be honest I'm surprised it took you this long to "blow up" at him. I would have "lost it" long ago.

It's unfortunate it happened in front of your D but, it's done, you can't change it. As long as it doesn't become a habit I think she'll have no "scars" from it. Kids don't expect us to be perfect but, they do expect us to love them unconditionally, treat them respectfully and keep them safe.

As for your comments being a LB...it seems everything you do is a LB to him...I wouldn't dwell on this incident. His behaviour was disrespectful and discourteous. I think he knows it, but does it because he thinks he can get away with it. Also, you are smart not to have sex with him...it's obvious he's using you.

IMHO...
I have a daughter too and I think it's important that she see me as strong, self-reliant, independent and resourceful. Kids learn from their parents, they model our behaviours to perfection. Children also learn the most from their same sex parent. Please make sure your D isn't taught that it is ok for men to treat her the way your WH treats you.

Have a wonderful Easter.

I agree, it was long overdue! And your right, his leaving his family is more traumatizing than anything so don't dwell on your outburst, it happens. I think your daughter seeing him walk in your home whenever/however his wants and his flippant and abusive attitude towards you is more traumatizing than anything. In my opinion, that is not a good example for a girl to see her mother allowing to happen.

Why worry if its a LB or not?

If you were trying to "plan A" then you would try to avoid those -- but you wouldn't really classify this limbo-land as Plan A would you?

Seems to me like neither of you are making any efforts either direction. He's not doing a darn thing about divorcing you. And I don't think you've been trying much to win him back.

2 years of this garbage and you're still taking it. Why?

I'd hardly worry about the "damage" to your daughter. It FAR more damaging for her to hear the disrespect and verbal abuse he throws at you. If you're really worried about her, then stop allowing him into your home and make him start living like a single father. Stop allowing him to abuse you in front of her. Or letting him use her as a puppet to say hurtful things to you.

UGH....he's really something!

Terrified...

One way children learn coflict resolution is that they see the adults in their lives have emotions/anger/outbursts...heck what 3-10 year old doesn't relate to a tantrum or outburst...and then see the adults also resolve the emotional part and return to being civil...

That's what they need to see...no good are children who never ever see parents argue...out of protecting them...for how does that child learn to work through those emotions...

no good is it for children to only see the angry emotional side of an arguement and never see the skills needs to resolve, make up and go past...

so you had a hissy fit....big flapping deal..I have all the faith and confidence that you processed the issue with your daughter...and so as to not raise a door mat...explained clearly that what mommy was mad about was wishing daddy had called to say where you guys were...and why you were late..so you didn't worry about them...simple simple simple...and reasonable to a child....

I realize you don't post much and I assure you know one is sick of you...
I realize that you are and will continue to get a lot of advice about taking control over this...and i realize it is still difficult for you to hear.....
know that you can come here and safely vent and release...and ya we will beat your ear in to shaking mr grumpy up....but that's just us... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

One day last week, when he came on to me very heatedly, he asked me why I couldn't go to the lawyer with him. Of course, during the "heat", I replied, "I don't have the stomach for it." He said nothing.

Are you saying he is coming "ON to you" or do you just mean aggressive about lawyers and filing... ???
what about that???
Is he being nice at all...or just a boorish ogre ?

Don't let disrespect into your family room to watch the leafs game...
Terr...maybe make lists...and decide what you want...what you don't want...and take a long hard look at it...
it is perhaps time for a plan....

blessed Easter to you and your daughter...
ARK

The lessons we teach our daughters without knowing it (speaking as a daughter who's father regularly (almost daily) verbally abused her mother and (almost weekly) physically abused her.

I learned that I was nothing. My mother would fight my father, verbally abuse him too, but would do nothing to stop him - like standing up for herself through ACTION.

I learned that men are dirt. I saw through my father's behavior. If he didn't love my mother (and his treatment of her demonstrated that he didn't love her), then how could he love me? I was three years old by the time I figured this one out.

I learned that I couldn't trust anyone - my mother was so absorbed in the drama around her husband's behavior, I felt like I was Scarlett O Hara's daughter (not Bonnie Blue) - like I was an accessory to her drama-filled life, rather than being sacred and precious, in and of myself.

I learned that home was not a safe place. When a father can invade a space he abandoned, and like some Tom Cat, mark the territory as his on a regular basis through abuse and hatred, and treat the lady of the house with contempt, your daughter is learning this too. I would have rather been any place but home.

I became vulnerable to abuse. I dared not speak out against s*xual abuse by my older brother - who would believe me? I had no role model for standing up against abuse... I didn't dare speak out against the abuse from a neighbor until seven years after the fact...

I looked for authentic father figures - I saw other little girls who's fathers loved their mothers and their little girls and I wanted one too. Your daughter will see through the phony facade your husband portrays to her and will not trust it. A double minded man is unstable in all his ways, the Psalmist said. He cannot treat you unkindly and not have your daughter perceive that and learn to not trust him.

What would I have asked from my mother? Leave him. Shut him out. Require that all contact be respectful. Not let him twist things around to blame her. Take legal action if necessary to stop the abuse. Legally bar him from the house until he can behave himself.

That's what I wish my mother had taught me; That I can be a woman of strength and set boundaries of strength, and that I can shut out abusive people.

T,

I agree with all the above comments. You're doing fine, and you had a right to be upset. He would never tolerate such disrespectful behavior from you as regards your D, would he? I think I would have told him that.

I would like to ask a ? Aren't you in Plan B? If so, WHY is he walking into your house, and turing on the TV any old time he comes there? You should have greeted them at the door, ushered your D in, and shut the door in his face (after having your say about how late they were, that is!). <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

God Bless, my dear.

Hello dear MB friends and thank-you. Ihope all ofyou had a wonderful Easter weekend. I survived it with many friends and family keeping both D and I especially busy.

I invited my family over for Easter dinner since I have always loved both cooking and entertaining (Ark, I am trying to resurrect my former self in ways by doing what I used to love). I did invite IL's to drop by on Easter Sunday and surprisingly, they did.

Of course, I felt sad and nostalgic. One of my very good friends (a couple and three kids) dropped by yesterday afternoon. Both my mother and sister/BIL had already arrived. I had everything cooking and almost ready. The husband, who I've know since Grade 9, said jokingly (while tasting my grilled red/yellow pepper & eggplant bruschetta..it felt so good to make it for the first time in two years!)...so what was H looking for that he didn't have??

I replied jokingly that I guess there was alot better sex out there.

Despite the jokes and the deep-down-inside-pain, I still missed H's presence. Still felt bad that he didn't get to see her at church looking like a little lady loving that fact that it was sunny, warm "no leotards, Mummy!". And of course, he blamed me that I didn't have the decency to suggest to him when would be a good time to see D on Sunday. Yet, he had her for dinner on Saturday evening with his family.

MGM, </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I've read your posts, replied on a couple...to be honest I'm surprised it took you this long to "blow up" at him. I would have "lost it" long ago </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh believe me, I've lost it many times in the last few years. Just not very recently so it felt strange to blow up. Imagine...

And I do agree with you that D understands how a man should treat and interact with a woman.

T2F, </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I think your daughter seeing him walk in your home whenever/however his wants and his flippant and abusive attitude towards you is more traumatizing than anything </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is also my perception but most times, H forces me to question myself.

Hey Lex, </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Seems to me like neither of you are making any efforts either direction. He's not doing a darn thing about divorcing you. And I don't think you've been trying much to win him back. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't think I can win him back anymore and quite honestly, I don't even know how I could. It's been too long, hasn't it? He's been in this relationship with the OW far too long to not really "LOVE" her (UGH) and he's been telling me he doesn't love me for the same amount of time.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> 2 years of this garbage and you're still taking it. Why? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Don't know myself. Hope? Faith? Stupidity?

Ark, </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I realize you don't post much and I assure you know one is sick of you... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thank-you for saying this.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I realize that you are and will continue to get a lot of advice about taking control over this...and i realize it is still difficult for you to hear..... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I come here to get good advice and realize that anything you say is what I must hear and believe but yes, it is difficult.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Are you saying he is coming "ON to you" or do you just mean aggressive about lawyers and filing... ??? what about that??? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, he came on to me physically, really strongly. You could definitely classify this one as fooling around on the OW but according to H, everyone fools around with their EX-spouses.

He was being nice for the week prior to this session but then fast became the ogre.

Ark, I did make lists of what I do and don't want. Guess what? I realized one of things that I most desire is out of my reach so the plan is to work towards real acceptance.

KA, You've had a very rough life, KA. You speak with amazing strength which is so admirable.

Lupo, I'm going to speak to Steve H. about Plan B. Perhaps he'll agree that it's now the only option.

Hugs to all.

Never never tired of getting updates from you -- I look for them often!

I'm glad you had a nice Easter -- you sound like a great cook! Wish I had the talent!

By the way -- its not your responsiblity to make sure the jerk gets enough Daddy-time. If he didn't make arrangements its HIS LOSS.

I know you know this, but please keep in mind that women follow patterns. Daughters seem to find men like daddy. And their daughters find men like daddy. And their daughters find men like daddy.

Which isn't good when "daddy" is verbally abusive.

Stand up for yourself and your daughter. Don't let her watch you take his crap.

I doubt you can do a Plan B hon -- he will just get more hysterical about it. Personally I think you should put on a full out 180. Acceptance is good, but I'd love to see you take it a step further. EMBRACE your new life and find joy, not just merely acceptance.

HUGS!

Thanks Lex. Good to hear from you. Sorry to hear about the Easter dilemma. I just finished reading your thread. Will reply to that one because I have a few words I'd like to share.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Which isn't good when "daddy" is verbally abusive. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You're right Lex but my D is so defensive of him and if he says something cutting, she'll jump in and I believe it's because she doesn't want to lose him completely.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> EMBRACE your new life and find joy, not just merely acceptance. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I like your idea but I have no sincere desire to embrace and I only feel joy when my daughter is around but I guess I could fake it when H is around?

Really good to hear from you again.
Hugs

Terrified, have you thought about changing the locks? I'm just puzzled as to how he can still come into the home he ideally no longer lives in and make himself at home.

Your WH's smug, manipulative and supercillious behavior is actually more damaging to your D than anything you did. It's like he walks around with a sign that says, "simply just doesn't get it." D's pick up relationship cues from their dads. He's the primary male figure in your D's life at this time. He's sent her a clear message that "your mother isn't worth much. She's not worthy of respect, affection or anything." His trying to blame you for "damaging" your D is supremely disingenuous, and after 2 years, you have been a lot more patient than I could have been.

Please continue to do good things for yourself, particularly things that you enjoy.

T-

I still think your marriage is going to be saved? WHY? Because he obviously loves you, and you love him.

Let go of the fighting, and little things... remember your love for him T... resurrect it... it can be done.

I know I have a different philosophy than many mber's, but I really feel I deal with a similar man... a man who has temper tantrums and tries to prove a point, a stubborn man who is deeply hurt... I really think that describes your h, and mine. I do think he is so ANGRY, b/c he loves you so much, and so are you.

The opposite of love is not hate T, it is indifference. This man DEEPLY cares what is going on with D and YOU, it is very obvious from the read. I can see the sparks between you, and why they are so electric. It is that real love, that is so hurt.. and two people who just can't get it right.

You might not be able to do plan a or b, totally as the book says.. but you can save your M. I know it. Have faith, the fact that both of you have faith in God is a strong indication of that. Don't let him blame you anymore.

I really think we share similar situations , that can be resolved. My WH is actually telling me quite often that he wants to live together and provide for me and the boys, he wants to reconcile, and he is actually coming up with the HOW we can do it. We have setbacks often, but I am feeling so much more hopeful. Keep believing in your Marriage, T... that is one thing that will help you and your WH and your D be a true family again, under the same roof.

Believe T. It reminds me of the Wizard of Oz and those red shoes, belief is very powerful. Believe he is the man you want, he wants to be that T... not this ogar he has become.... He is getting admiration from the OW, give him a little if you can... even if it is HARD to say or do. Surely you can find something good in him even these days... Maybe it was that he had D over for a Special Easter dinner on Sunday. Maybe even tell him you are glad he is still attracted to you,a nd that you are to him... fine, if you draw a boundary and say no for now... until he can be a better H... but fine with me if you fool around a little now and then if it is leading to a better Relationship- however that is a gift- physical affection- you hold that he should not have while treating you badly.

I encourage you to save your M, and I hope we can talk privately. I certainly have my troubles as well... but a positive believing attitude can work miracles.

Pray for him T, and seek ICounseling, and maybe joint if he will ever go. Sometimes the D coming can be a time of letting go of the fight and finding each other again- I truly think that is what you both want, and what you are destined for.

Hugs, Honey

<small>[ April 22, 2003, 12:18 AM: Message edited by: Honey ]</small>

Dear Honey, What a beautiful, heartfelt reply!! I asked God again tonight for something, anything...to keep me holding on...and then I read your post.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I still think your marriage is going to be saved? WHY? Because he obviously loves you, and you love him. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You're a sweet person Honey. I used to think so so too but the only truth is my loving him. He just told me today that he no longer loves me. Get it through my head, he says. But I do appreciate your idealism. Honestly.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Let go of the fighting, and little things </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You're right. I have to.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">a man who has temper tantrums and tries to prove a point, a stubborn man who is deeply hurt... I really think that describes your h, and mine. I do think he is so ANGRY, b/c he loves you so much, and so are you. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Honey, your H has come so much closer to wanting to reconcile. I applaud those baby steps. IMO, the only thing that holds up your marriage recovery is his own transformation because you've already come such a long way. My H, well, he's never mentioned wanting to come back...quite the opposite as you know.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Keep believing in your Marriage, T... that is one thing that will help you and your WH and your D be a true family again, under the same roof. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In my heart, I will always believe. With most everyone else, I have to keep that alive silently. Thank-you for sharing in this and believing too.

I will contact you.

Hugs to you for your thoughts and care.

Hi Terri,
I think it is great that you had people over, including your in-laws. I think you are a very gracious person and despite your MIL getting confused at times, she likely knows who is the off-track one between you & her son.

I agree with Honey in one respect, your H still shows a lot of emotional involvement with you, if not love, he does want to control and influence you. He's still in the dance of pushing & pulling at your emotions. Pulling you in when you distance, pushing you away if you want to be close.

My H & I did that to each other too. I thought of it as the death spiral. And instead of withdrawing, retreating I learned to stand still, wanting the possibility of reconciliation, but not involving myself in H's inconsistancies, but looking back standing still was also shutting down, I really didn't care so much anymore about the reconciliation, I just wanted my life to be better. My daughters were older and I could explain to them some of the processes and reasons for my committment.

But, a big difference is that my H avoided conflict, where yours seems to thrive on letting his anger loose. And that's something I worry about for you.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">but according to H, everyone fools around with their EX-spouses </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I wonder who is telling him this? And, it doesn't apply to you anyway, you aren't an ex-spouse, you are a current spouse.

I just have to wonder where he's getting his information <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> .

Hugs to you and your little one.

terrified...

I have to say ...that i don't agree with honey..not in a she's wrong type of way..but in a way that saying his anger is an expression of a deeper love serves no purpose...to anyone...

And I am concerned terrified that you cling more to posts that put a more positive spin than ones that encourage you take steps that appear to deviate from plan a doormat status...

I am going to tell you terrified that in suggesting you shake things up...confront him or show him your emotions is NOT because people believe you need to just move on and give up on your marriage...what it means is that people see clearly that what you have been doing isn't working and it is time to try something new....

YOU HAVE TO CHANGE YOU AND YOUR RESPONSE TO HIM OR YOU ARE DOOMING YOURSELF TO LIVING IN THIS SAME WORLD OF BLAME, DISREPECT, PAIN AND HOLDING PATTERN OF STAGNATION THAT SUFFOCATES YOU AND KEEPS YOU FROM GROWING, CHANGING, OR EVEN ENJOYING.

Today is tuesday and once again husband had to throw in there...I don't love you...

DID YOU SAY ANYTHING???
did you say???

yeah well what else is new...?
so...what are you gonna do about it?
that's interesting..please don't call me to tell me useless information?
what makes you think I am interested in your love?
cool...I wonder if Barry Mannilow is available?
that's nice dear..so I am sending our daughter over sat am to your apartment...I will be home sometime sunday eve...you can bring or by then or I will pick her up at your PLACE if you prefer...

why are you afraid to deviate from any path but of the same old same old
what are you afraid of...

what would happen if you become strong to you?
what will you gain??
what will you lose??
because you are strong already...you have friends and support who don't want you to move on because of him...BUT because of you because YOU are so much better than his games and cruelity...and yet all you see is what you perceive to lose...when the reality of what we see, your family sees and your friends see is what HE LOSES...
look at the comment from you fried....about him and you....

so what was H looking for that he didn't have??

that's what everyone wants to know...EXCEPT you...you turn in around to look at what you don't have...ugggghhhh...

I believe in marriage...I believe in yours...BUT I believe he needs to be worthy marriage material...and he isn't stepping up to the plate...and i believe you need to take control of you...quit thinking and brooding about what you believe YOU have lost...
get going and SHOW HIM what he has lost...
hire someone to do his dam lawn...

ARK...

Terri ~

I've asked you this before....what PLAN are you in?

You are in the same place you were a year ago.

Nothing changes if nothing changes.

When did you talk to Steve last? I hardly think Steve has advised you to do what you are doing.

What keeps you from loving you?

Why do you allow your husband to define who you are? Why are his truths so powerful?

Even the fact that you stopped posting here is a bad sign. Isolation will only make your situation worse.

Why do you believe that everyone is tired of your story?

Frankly, I think you stopped posting, not because you thought everyone was tired of you, but because you were being given encouragement and advise that scared you to death.

Terri ~ until you start believing in yourself and step out of your self-centered isolation, you are going to remain where you are.

i can tell you that I am a daughter of a mother who behaved as you do. I almost didn't survive the consequences as an adult.

So, when are you going to get into a plan?

Wonderful to hear from all of you.

Dear Lor, </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I think it is great that you had people over, including your in-laws.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm glad you think so. My sister didn't like that they dropped by but it made my day. I miss having them over and I was overjoyed by their visit. And during their visit, our best man dropped by with his daughter (my godchild) and had a drink with everyone. He's one of my H's best friends but it was nice to see him.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My H & I did that to each other too. I thought of it as the death spiral </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">A great analogy...perhaps if I keep in my mind, I'll remain more consistent.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And, it doesn't apply to you anyway, you aren't an ex-spouse, you are a current spouse. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think in his mind, I'm already his EX or I guess when it's convenient. Other than that, I could be referred to as his wife.

I think perhaps, his Yugoslavian OW may different standards of information. I fear that may be his only source.

Hugs to you too

Dear Ark, </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And I am concerned terrified that you cling more to posts that put a more positive spin than ones that encourage you take steps that appear to deviate from plan a doormat status... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thank-you for your sincerity. Don't worry Ark. I don't cling to the positive idealism at all. Quite honestly, it's just an escape to read it sometimes. I know what I must do. I believe in what you're saying. I don't want to be a doormat anymore. Remember that list you asked me to put together? One of the things I want is for him to lose his "smugness" about my love and for me to stop feeling I have to jump at his every word. I know that this will not bring him back. Letting go and not looking back is just plain HARD, Ark.

God, your words Ark...I know you're right. I know it but each time, I feel good, a little better...something happens and I remember what I was and what I'm not. What WE were and what we're NOT...it was going to my Level 1 soccer coaching class (so that I could coach D) and hearing from the coordinator that "when your husband dropped off the deposit..."

Hearing the phrase "your husband"...H dropped off the deposit and he told the admin it was for "his wife"...God, stupid things like this set me back. Then I tell myself...maybe...

Don't give up on me Ark. Your words are so important to me.

Hugs

BR, I think of you and hope you are better. So good of you to check in.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I've asked you this before....what PLAN are you in? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't know anymore. I will call Steve tomorrow.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Why do you allow your husband to define who you are? Why are his truths so powerful? /QUOTE]

Because I failed miserably as a wife in many ways. Sexually and emotionally...and I just never knew enough to prioritize our marriage. I can't change what I didn't do but I hear my H remind me SO often of how the OW loved him so easily and how our love was so HARD...

I have to stop believing it but every time I gain some ground, something pushes me back into the corner.

[QUOTE]Frankly, I think you stopped posting, not because you thought everyone was tired of you, but because you were being given encouragement and advise that scared you to death. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I fear divorce. I have never found failure easy...actually, I find it excruciatingly difficult. And I do dislike who I am in many ways because I view myself a failure as a woman.

I hear you BR. I'll let you know what Steve says.

Take care

T,

I am glad you are getting all types of perspectives... mine might have the positive spin, b/c that is what works for me... and it might work for others. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I have boundaries with my spin towards more of a plan A... A plan A with boundaries. Have you read the book Boundaries?, I highly reccomend. I apologize if I have mentioned this before, but it has helped me so much.

I don't think letting him get away with treating you bad is Ok... or the doormat approach. I just think that when he sees a good you, a you that is not a doormat but a strong woman- but still someone who will let him in the door if he acts right... but someone who will not, if he does not... things might change.

I strongly agree with BOUNDARIES- with kindness. You can do this like Jesus would, without... excepting the unacceptable, but still being a loving person.

I know that I have felt really turned off by strong responses that tell me what to do here on these boards... but I have mellowed to the fact that some posters really do think they know what you should do.

I do not know what you should do. I think you are the only one who can decide your course of action. I think all situations are different, and very individual. My ideas are my humble opinion, please take them as that....

I don't at all mean it is good that your wh shows some feelings for you in an angry way... I know too well what it is like to be on the end of that anger... or similar anger... and to be hurt by it. The anger and the angry attitude are not right at all- and if there is anyone that knows that - it is me.... However, I do think it is very true, that if he did not care, he would be long gone, divorced already and not at all caring about you, or even D... there are dad's who do this... they just leave... even the kids.

Anyway, I encourage you to recover your marriage and keep making progress one day at a time, however that works for you.

Take care of you and your D! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hugs and Lots of Hope,

Honey

Dear T,

I sure hate to hear that you are still not being treated well. If you get a chance go over to the d/d site and look up NOTAPEACHINGA's threads.

There you will find a young mom (just like yourself) who is struggling with an idiot worse than your H. Yet she is surviving. The WS in her case was dubbed 'darth' and now 'jethro'. He is so wacked out even my H is feeling sorry for Peach and has even spoken to her a bit.

Peach is struggling but keeping her head above waters despite the fact that now her H even has an RO filed against him by her attorney. That's right, he even made a verbal threat to her attorney.

Why am I asking you to read her thread? So you can see how another young mother is handling it despite the odds against her. Peach's home has been given over by the WS to his parents. Her H has said his wages were 50% less than what he really made just so that he can give her less than what her family is due. He sends her e-mails with pixs of the OW and himself (that's how he got the name: Jethro). Oooh there's more. The point is that despite it all she is surviving. That's all she can do right now and even though her H just insinuated she was a lesbian and that he would even turn their child against her, she is still managing to come up smellin' like roses.

U see, the WS' world is crashing around him and now he is lashing back. In Peach's case, their personal safety is quickly becoming their first priority.

She is taking the steps necessary to protect herself and her child. Her experience can help many to know that a WS can turn worse at any given moment and the BS and family need to be prepared.

Through it all, Peach is still hurt to see her H crash so..... but realizes there isn't much she can do since he is barreling down that avenue at high speeds. She just has to step aside and watch.

Please take care that you don't get caught up with your H's antics and tantrums. Let those reflect right back on him.

take care,
L.

Hello Honey & Orchid,

Hope you're having a good day. It is finally sunny and warmer in my neck of the woods. Sunshine nearly always brightens the worst of despair.

Honey, I have not read the book "Boundaries". I'm going to Chapters tonight and will look for it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">However, I do think it is very true, that if he did not care, he would be long gone, divorced already and not at all caring about you, or even D...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree with this too...it's almost the only thing I hang onto..

Thank-you for your encouragement and prayers.

Hi O, Hope you're doing well? Thanks for pointing out Peach's thread. Wow...pain of the worst kind...

I guess we have no choice but to step aside and watch the fall.

Take care.