kily:

I have said several times in the recent past, words to that effect. And that's what I'm doing. The question again becomes, how long can I do this? What's going on while I do this? Is this the question institute? ( <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )

-Qfwfq

Q-

...as long as they are NOT fertilized it doesn't matter WHERE you put them. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> how long can I do this? What's going on while I do this? Is this the question institute? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As long as you NEED to. Think about this for a while. I'll elaborate later.

Now:
Send her a letter.

Why?
Because the brain processes what it reads differently than it processes what it hears. It will allow her to absorb things differently and the best part is that you will not be in her face and she can PROCESS what you are saying in a "safe" way....

kily:

She teaches this afternoon. She's not likely to login to her email today.

If we don't talk again tonight (likely), I will consider sending her an email at work tomorrow.

As for time: Well... I'm getting the feeling of a bit of impatience, and at the same time, indifference.

-Qfwfq

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Before I even found where I'd left off, she heaved a heavy sigh (I've always wanted to use that in conversation). I asked her what's up? She said she's just very depressed. So I put the book down and turned off the light, came over and gave her a big hug, and asked "about what?" No response. I waited, continued to hug her, and asked "Anything you want to talk about?" No response. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">For some reason, this just jumped at me.

~Q~, you got up and cut the light off to try to have the conversation? Does this tell you anything?

Susan

I agree with Kily - besides the reasons she gives, we need to reinforce things over and over in the minds of those we want to reach. If she keeps getting that message from you - that you care and want to help, it just may click some day.

I wonder if one of the things she thinks when she refuses to answer is: "I have hurt him enough, I need to do this myself." Or something like that.

As for time: Well... I'm getting the feeling of a bit of impatience, and at the same time, indifference.

Well, you kind of feel like this every few weeks.
Don't you???

I am not trying to be cute, I hate that you have to wonder, but I'll not worry a great deal until you feel that way every day, for a month or more. Of course, if you get to that point, it may be too late, so ................

Augggggggg!

Now I'm doing it too!

I'd keep the note short like Kily sampled, but change it weekly. You can add in more stuff as you go - even if she doesn't answer, she'll get it.

You know, the next week you can say a little more: "I wrote you last week and you didn't reply. Sometimes you don't reply when I talk to you and I wonder why, and I wonder if I'll ever be able to reach you and help you. I don't mean to be negative but these thoughts run round and round in my head, and I can't seem to get them out."

I am not suggesting you say that exactly, but use some sort of progression of your thoughts so she gets the whole story as you go along. Just don't be harsh or demanding. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Think about this:
If you were magic, you could go to Mars and collect samples your self.

But then, you probably wouldn't need to.

SS

Susan:

"~Q~, you got up and cut the light off to try to have the conversation? Does this tell you anything?"

Um... ...I'm drawing a complete blank here! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

-Qfwfq

SS:

"If she keeps getting that message from you - that you care and want to help, it just may click some day."

I believe this!

"I wonder if one of the things she thinks when she refuses to answer is: "I have hurt him enough, I need to do this myself." Or something like that."

This is an interesting perspective. I think it's quite possible.

"As for time: Well... I'm getting the feeling of a bit of impatience, and at the same time, indifference.

Well, you kind of feel like this every few weeks.
Don't you???"

Yep.

"I am not trying to be cute, I hate that you have to wonder, but I'll not worry a great deal until you feel that way every day, for a month or more. Of course, if you get to that point, it may be too late, so ................"

I've felt this way more a month or so ago than I do now. Or maybe, to put it better, I've felt that way and been bitter about how I felt more a month ago than now. Not the growing indifference I think I'm feeling now. But I still love her very much, too, and want to see the "old" W surface soon.

"I'd keep the note short like Kily sampled, but change it weekly. You can add in more stuff as you go - even if she doesn't answer, she'll get it."

I've done this before, you know. But just like the questions and the ILYs, she ignores them. I even sent her a couple of "ILY" emails, where I said nothing else. She ignored them, or brought up something unrelated. Short of saying something sarcastic, like "ILY, even though I know it doesn't matter", I am running out of ideas, other than to keep loving her and being patient. You have said, several times now, that you think I can wait a year, or two, or three. And somewhat like a BS just out of the D-day gate, I keep thinking, NO!!! I'll go bark stonkers!!! But then the next thing I know, I've "made it" to another milepost. So, maybe I can be patient for 3 years. Only time will tell.

"Think about this:
If you were magic, you could go to Mars and collect samples your self.

But then, you probably wouldn't need to. "

That did it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I've changed my sig line and added one of my favorite songs of all time - written by a late acquaintence of mine. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

-ol' dusty Qfwfq

I hate to put words in peoples keyboards, but I think Susan was getting at the fear factor. If you turn out the lights to talk, does it mean you are afraid to talk and that it is easier in the dark.

Fear of no answer.
Fear of what may show on your face.
Fear of what may show on her face.

Afraid that she may see the fear in your face and react with anger to that, as she has before.

Q, this is not a negative thing, though it may envoke some negative emotions. We learn by exploration. Learning is good.
Good.

OK?

SS

SS:

"I hate to put words in peoples keyboards, but I think Susan was getting at the fear factor. If you turn out the lights to talk, does it mean you are afraid to talk and that it is easier in the dark."

Well, if that's what Susan was alluding to, I can allay both of your concerns with one swell foop:

The light was off while the TV was on. I turned off the TV so she could sleep, and turned on the light so I could read. I thought she might be annoyed by the light being on (which has bothered her in the past, though it doesn't always). That was why I turned it off. If I didn't think she'd mind the light, I would have left it on so I could read after the convo, or show her what I was reading if she were to ask.

-Qfwfq

Q:
Your swell foop's are pretty powerful, I think I have whiplash. Do you have good insurance, or did they cancel over the house issues?

SS

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Q,

Personally, I think you handled the situation with your wife beautifully.

You responded to her heavy sigh; by turning off the light and giving her undivided attention - non sexual at that. I think you get an A+ for that alone.

You encouraged her to talk with you. You didn't try to solve her problem; and then you let it go, and she drifted off to sleep peacefully.

What's wrong with that I ask? Those classes had to weight heavily on her. What a great thing. And you got to be the good guy, comforting and supporting her.

Beautiful, absolutely beautiful!! CSue

CSue:

Now there's a perspective that I needed but didn't realize I needed it! Thanques!

You know? This whole rollercoaster ride is getting so flat that I just might get bored and hop out of the car!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
-ol' dusty, rusty, wint'ry Qfwfq

~Q~...sorry. My bad.

Must have been my issue, but not yours. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

(great job on doing the dishes though <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )

Susan

<small>[ April 23, 2003, 04:00 PM: Message edited by: Susan ]</small>

Susan:

No problem! I often don't know whether I'm coming or going, so it's good to have input!

And you know? in the scheme of things, I really don't have a clue whether my M will survive or not. Or whether it should. That's why this indifference feels so strange. Healthy and yet sort of ominous at the same time??

-ol' Qfwfq

Q-

PG's coming in concert again!!!!

Looks like I'll have to find a date <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

kily:

I'd like to see him again, too. But at 100 bucks a seat, it got expensive (all of us went).

Some further thoughts: I think my W and I are both doing the best we can with what we have. By not initiating a R talk, I'm showing her that my "changes" are consistent (sounds like "constant change is here to stay", doesn't it!?). I'm also showing ME that they are. I'm able to do stuff for myself at appropriate times and levels now, which was one thing that I was afraid I couldn't do (remember when I was going to spend my spare time finishing my Model A last summer? Well, I haven't!). I'm able to show myself that I can be helpful in ways other than plastering walls and other construction projects. But I've also been exploring my "limits" in helping her with her research goals. I am happy to help her out at appropriate levels, but I'm not willing to give up what I do (or need to do at work) to support her so that she won't seek it from someone else like RM (or RM).

I'm getting a lot more comfortable with myself as an increasingly-emotionally healthy, differentiated person (thanks, Schnarch!), and a lot more patient with my W, who doesn't appear yet to be making large strides in personal growth (but I say that only because I SEE very little outward expression of what she's going through internally - she may be making huge strides on her own).

I've still got a long way to go, as I'm sure she does. But the fear of some "imminent threat" to our M is diminishing all the time. And that feels pretty neat.

-ol' crusty Qfwfq

You're a good man, Charlie Brown! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I sense peace here, my friend...this is good, very good.

I was humbled tonight. Humbled by my fallibility, humbled by how noble we all can be at difficult moments, humbled at seeing my children caring and supporting their parents upon hearing of our divorce, humbled at being thanked by my wife, and humbled at having her cry and tell me she knows I'm her friend. Peace is a beutiful thing.

SC:

Thanks for the vote of confidence, man!

I really am starting to feel some sense of real peace about this for a change, but the upsets do keep trying to worm their way into my thoughts.

Like this morning. My W said that, because of some of the additional work her company wants her to do on her projects, she'll be lucky to get the last one done by October. GROAN. I have maintained my objective of not mentioning RM (but being receptive when she wants to tell me anything), because I would rather she tell me that she's ending contact than have her end it because I demand it. October still seems like an eternity away, and beyond October is more!

But at the same time, I have to be sure I understand this sense of peace I'm starting to feel. I want to be sure it's not indifference to her as my W, because I sometimes think that it is.

-Qfwfq

Q-

Where do YOU live? It was $250 a pop when I went in NY!!!

You, my good man, are doing so great. Can I pretend I'm lucy and offer you the footbal? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I think that Cerri is going to have much to say about you last post! It should be an interesting read. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />