Hi MB buddies,

My H flew to OW yesterday in other city to tell her he needed to give me and our family a second chance. He said he was going to break it off and it made him sad, but he could not go on living like this anymore especially since he loves me.

OW told her own H a week ago that she wanted a divorce, without saying she was having an affair, but that she did not love him anymore.

My H came home this morning and now I need to confront him with what went on. He has just gone to football training with our son and he was very physical, playful with me before he left, whereas I did not respond because I need to know what the situation is.

I am having alot of worries and hoping any of you can help with me seeing the potential traps or LB that may arise when confronting my H on what happened with OW last night.

1) I´m afraid he will tell me it is over with her but that he and OW have made a promise that they will wait for each other if it does not work out.
I end up thinking NOW we can work our marriage out, but he is still having the back door open. How do I trust him that he is telling the truth. Are we then in recovery or what?

2) He will tell me the truth and say that he has broken up with her for now, but they have promised not to give up on each other just yet, because she is going to go through divorce proceedings and he is going to see whether I have really changed (based on my good Plan A and being the loving and caring wife he has been missing). Doesn´t this mean that I am still in Plan A, and still fighting for him to have NC to OW and 100% commitment to me.

Of course it is TOTALLY unacceptable if he has got his legs in 2 puddles, promising me to give us a 2nd chance AND asking her to be patient if it does not work out (another scenario is that she has told him that she will wait for him...). But how do I deal with it if this is the case?

Is it tough love and Plan B? Tell him he has to choose 100%, and if he says he has chosen us 100% how can I ever be sure of that?

Or Is it continue Plan A for a fixed time limit and continue with deposits in his love bank, until he comes around out of his fog and withdrawal. At the same time I was thinking of getting him to give me all passwords for his e-mail, mobile phone and tell him that I want to have full access at all times to be able to trust him that he has no contact with OW. For me to build trust in him that he is telling the truth.

This would be a big thing for him cause he likes his privacy, but as I see it I am not asking him to do it for life (actually I am), but I have to sell it to him as if it is for a period until I feel comfortable and feel I can trust him.

my H is coming home in a few hours.
Anything else I should be aware of???

Any thoughtful comments would be greatly appreciated soon.

-queen-

Hello Queen,

My take on this is-Good! He has finished with OW. What he told her doesn't matter really, the fact is he has finished with her. Don't forget he has probably lied to her, may have told her he doesn't love you but can't leave his kids....whatever, he has come home to you. Now is the time to Plan A to the Max. Plan B is not appropriate here. What you should be doing is reinforcing that he has made the right decision.By Plan A, I mean this-be good to yourself so you have a lot to give to your family and H. Look after yourself, your home, your family. Do things you always wanted to but haven't had time to(not the London sort of stuff ok?). Try and do fun stuff with H and the kids. I planned to go 10 pin bowling with the children and H and it was palpably a bonding experience for us as a couple and as a family. Something so simple! So I'm planning more. Show your WH how happy you are that he has made this decision. He's here with you.Watch his actions not his words until you feel he is really trustworthy again. This is not a fixed term thing, Queen, this should be for life. It should be easier and easier to do as time goes on because you will all reap the rewards and be happier because of it!
And try try try not to LB-come here to vent, go running, do something physical, clean the oven!
Believe me, I am the queen of LB's and they never help.

So good luck girl!

Trust-that is the hardest thing. You have to learn to trust gain, he has to prove himself trustworthy. Harley says you should never 100% trust your spouse-so you are just a bit vigilant for the early signs of predators and weaknesses.
But that doesn't mean you can't learn to trust him not to hurt you again.

Queen there are many at MB who have reached that point before we have, if they can do it you can.

But I do think to aid that trust you can ask him to do whatever it takes to be accountable.
He might not like it but it's a small price to pay isn't it?

Thanks deluded,
I still have not confronted him. He is watching U.S playing against Denmark in Icehockey and totally consumed by the game.

I get it, I Plan A big time now. There is a little "but" though. We are planning to go to London again next weekend and have a lot of fun. And I know ARK or TM94 are going to get a heart attack reading this (especially ARK) but we have agreed to meet up with girl in London to talk to her.

I know, I know, I know, playing with fire....
But please hear me out. She wants to meet up with me alone to talk and I am going to tell her what the situation is and hopefully scare her off, telling her that no way would it be wise for any of us to bring in a 3rd person with the dysfunctional marriage we are in. I am not confident or trusting my H enough to be able to go there.

There is a terrible catch though and that is my H is really hoping that this might work out to be something more wih her and us. He is still in the "fog" and he, as I see it, is using our amazing fantasy thing as a way out of experiencing real withdrawal from OW. Does this make any sense? He can´t face his sadness or guilt or the consequences of his actions so he looks at burying it all on a lot of "superficial fun & mind blowing experiences"

I think many of you may think I am absolutely crazy here, but hear me out. PLEASE.

Harley talks in his books about our givers and our takers. When we are in the state of romantic love its the givers that are in power. Under conflict its the takers. But when we go into withdrawal and one is indifferent it takes basically a little miracle to jump out of it to get back over the romantic threshold. My H was in withdrawal towards me (even though he was acting kind and loving because of his guilt). He was in withdrawal whilst he was in romantic love with OW. Why have the tables turned now, so that he actually felt strong enough to break it off with OW (assuming he did???).

Because I broke the romantic threshold by opening my heart and letting him in to my deepest fantasies and desires and telling him, no matter whether we are together or not at least one of these fantasies I wanted to live out with him, because I still desired and loved him.

Not only did I tell him, I made words into actions. The situation we experienced in London was really a very caring, vulnerable and loving one, where noone left feeling used or "degraded".

Experiencing that situation, broke my H withdrawal attitude to me and jolted him right back into romantic love towards ME(!), where the givers take over.

I am not a stupid woman in allowing this whole thing to get out of hand, but I do believe that the new "excitement" we have rekindled in our relationship through our trip to London, actually should be the fuel to find each other again. To see one another with new eyes.

There is the risk of being hurt yes. But after reading TM94´s thread on his doubts and thoughts of his W is moving out, wondering whether he has the capacity and will to start dating her again, learning his new self, allowing her to learn his new self, I came to the conclusion that us taking off to London to have a good time is no different than you deluded going bowling with the whole family. Or for TM94 to chill out on the couch with his WS.

If I want to do it and feel good about ME and us. If my H wants to do it and feel good about HIM and us. Then the biggest step and improvement that is being made here is US, because that is the common goal for both of us.

I will however repeat what I said before. I do not consider myself a stupid person and am well aware of ARK ´s words about playing with fire and causing a potentially explosive situation. I hear and I understand, and my eyes are WIDE open. My H and I need to find the playfulness in each other again. We need to start playing in order to rekindle whatever we BOTH feel has been lost.

It maybe also be true that I am also on a verge of a mid life crisis, just read of the symptoms and I truly feel like rebelling everything that is perceived to be right and "proper". So, what if we, my H and I are to experience that mid life crisis together? Will that tear us farther apart or closer together? We might actually become more mature and stronger the two of us at the end of the day or we might just look at one another and see that there is no more we can accomplish with each other.

Maybe this is just a load of blabber blabber. Let me just ask a question. What do you do to a rebel teenager that will rebel no matter what? Does it help to say no? NO, it does the opposite. Does it help to be there and support, guide and be open to everything that rebel comes up with? YES, because the rebel feels safe and understood, though they are being torn by "powers they cannot resist listening to.

I see it like this. My H is the major rebel. I have the feeling that I need to turn my life around, upside down too (NEVER EVER at the expense of my kids welfare though and I believe my H feels the same). But it is I that needs to take the lead and set the boundaries to make sure that we do not ruin our health/lives in ways that will affect our kids, because my H is still in his "alien" state of mind. So couldn´t we do this together?

O.K now I think I lost my own line of thought, but I am hoping someone might understand what I mean!!!???!!

Look forward to comments however tough...

-queen-

I am a little confused .....

Are you implying a "threesome" situation to appease your H's teenage rebel?

Yes or no?

Pepper

THUD THUMP...
(Sound of ARK falling off her chair) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Well queen of...

Lets just say recovery is tricky...often lots of false of starts...lots of hurt feelings...
lots of energy wasted and spent...
Lots of thinking that makes your head spin...what's he doing what's he really saying...what does that look mean...what does this mean......where is he...who is he calling...reading into every thought, movement, and gesture...it can be exhausting...

When YOU ( I mean YOU queen of)>> choose to bring to the table confused lines of boundaries, true marital intimacy, and attempts to justify behavior as acceptable if done this way..but not if done that way....
well then your recovery FOUNDATION is nothing more than a deck of cards....

how can you on one hand be discussing unnaceptable behaviors of his...while promoting those same behaviors from you....

and my eyes are WIDE open. My H and I need to find the playfulness in each other again. We need to start playing in order to rekindle whatever we BOTH feel has been lost.

Queen of you are so way off..playfulnes is not what you have lost....the FOUNDATION of trust, commitment, and fidelity is what you have lost...NOT this sexual icing on the cake of which you both are reaching for and attempting to call recovery...

YOU DON"T TRUST YOUR HUSBAND RIGHT NOW ONE IOTA...but out of fear of losing him...(him who you don't really even have right now..since OW is still and issue...mentally if not physically)...you are dabbling in things that put huge huge stress on people who are 100% in tune with eachother and marriage
...now you know how I feel about using a third party to mend your problems...but for someone to even attempt to convince me that a third party is a healthy loving extension <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> The couple dam well better have all their crap together and a strong marriage in the first place....and mimimally trust one another...which you don't, can't and shouldn't right now...

uggh I think I am gonna fall over again...

We might actually become more mature and stronger the two of us at the end of the day or we might just look at one another and see that there is no more we can accomplish with each other.

actually that's poppycock...(see I speak English <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> )..but it "sounds" good and is a great diversional tatic at the real issues...
remember the real issues...
the ones that got you and your husband to the roles of WS/BS???

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">[Let me just ask a question. What do you do to a rebel teenager that will rebel no matter what? Does it help to say no? NO, it does the opposite. Does it help to be there and support, guide and be open to everything that rebel comes up with? YES, because the rebel feels safe and understood, though they are being torn by "powers they cannot resist listening to.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">that just a fancy way of saying enabling...normal rebeling even in marriage does not destroy the exact foundation that makes it a marriage...

queen of go deeper..
If you were tell your husband that you have thought long and hard about involving any more third parties or the poor person you've already dragged into this...would that fact change his plan of recovering...
would that fact have a huge impact on his commitment to you
would that fact make him angry, upset with you...

because I think it would affect his decision to reconcile...and i believe you are under huge pressure to bend to what he wants and believes right now...
and if you do that...you are selling yourself short and will pay for it the end..

You do not have worth because of your willingness to swing...
you do not have worth because of your ability to be sexual and playful
you do not have worth because of this new wild side of you...
How positive a reaction would you get from husband if you told him you aren't going this weekend..answer that one truthfully please...

your worth is deeper than that...yet both of you are grabbing on to this other diversional stuff...

one week after your husband announces he is going to leave his OW...your plan to recovery includes going together to have sex with an other person...
uggghhh...it is just so illogical...

OK that was a really long bashing post...but using your logic...we should all support you in your rebeling over marital VOWS
you two are getting lost in a false recovery plan that won't bring about what is really needed...
and your mixed signals and your actions are what will place huge role in its failure...

ARK

ARK

If "threesome" is what you are talking about .....

.... trust me.....

You are taking poison.

I've tasted that poison, and I warn you .... You will feel degraded beyond your wildest dreams. Far worse than you feel now.

That's all I'm going to say.

Pepper (who survived the 60's and 70's by grace and luck alone)

Well maybe it's just as well that the reply I just posted got lost in cyberspace.

Queen, this can't be the way to sort out the serious issues between you and H.

Set boundaries for yourself. Always ask yourself, am I proud of this behaviour? Can I look my kids in the eye and know my behaviour and self conduct is above reproach?

All I will say is this....if you are so sure you are taking the right course of action, why do you seek approval or otherwise here?

You stand to lose nothing by stepping back and taking stock.

Take care

Deluded

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> What do you do to a rebel teenager that will rebel no matter what? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Let them suffer the consequences of their actions, you cannot do anything else. If your H wants to have A nothing you can do will stop him. You can't control anyone else by words or actions.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Tell him he has to choose 100%, and if he says he has chosen us 100% how can I ever be sure of that?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes to the first bit - he must choose you 100% to recover your marriage. The only way you can be sure he has chosen you is that he agrees to prove it to you.

The title of your post attracted me "Any traps I need to look out for?"

My dear, this meeting up with OW is a trap - watch out for it. If they get you involved in their affair it will not end and you will be enabling it and it will become their ammunition. If this is what you want however then enjoy,

Realise it will change your relationship forever.

Take care

<small>[ April 28, 2003, 05:53 AM: Message edited by: Seahorse ]</small>

What to look out for?

You need to focus on your relationship together. Do stuff together that is fun, loving, romantic.
Plan A.

You need to explain to him about no contact. Be prepared for a few lapses. He needs to be accountable to you with his cell phone bills, e-mails and bank statements. You should get SAA by Harley and share it with him.

Explain to him that he will feel the pangs of withdrawal, you know this and that he will be tempted to contact OW. He must handle this by being open and honest with you about any contact. If he wants to continue the A, that is his choice, but then he should leave. You don't want to live with a liar and a cheater and you have to much respect for him to allow him to live that kind of a lifestyle.

Also try to get him to do some counseling if possible- or at the very least read some self help books.

Your H will try to cover up his depression and withdrawal with this threesome idea- it's a bad idea.

Queen,
I'm not going to jump on the bandwagon and rub salt in your open wound. However, I will share some more of my situation. You say you read my most recent post? You should go back and read some of my earlier posts to see exactly what you are getting yourself into here. I will try to dig some of them up and post links so you can see what I've been through the past few months.

My wife and I started our open relationship in much of the same way that you are. The difference with us was that we were both happy at the time, there was no infidelity, there was no distrust or jelousy of any kind. We both wanted to experiment and made promises to each other that would set boundries.

The problem was that we weren't as solid as we thought. Everyone pictured us as the perfect couple, right up until D-day. If I had a penny for every time someone told me that they wished their marriage could be as strong and loving as ours I would be a VERY rich man right now. But, deep down it was killing both of us. Even though it was something we both agreed to and enjoyed there was tremendous guilt. In the end we were both doing things that we thought were making the other happy when in fact they were making each of us more miserable.

Again, I'm not trying to bash you here. There have been a few people who have come here and been driven off because of the responses they got. I don't want to see that happen to you. But, I feel compelled to warn you about the path that you are choosing.

I know you said that you weren't planning on anything happening, just talk. Do you really believe that will happen? I'm quite sure that you husband and the OW are both planning on something physical happening again. That's just the way it works. And, I'm guessing that part of you wants it to happen again. Don't feel bad for having those thoughts and desires, they are human. But, be cautious of acting on those thoughts and deires, as many times they are destructive in the end no matter how innocent they start out.

Queen, don't be scared away by the tough responses, everyone is trying to help. Come back and push your way through it because I know how much help you will need to make it through this nightmare we are all sharing.

God Bless

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Queen of a broken heart:
<strong>She wants to meet up with me alone to talk
...

There is a terrible catch though and that is my H is really hoping that this might work out to be something more wih her and us. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hmmmm - I see I will be a tiny minority here, because I do not find anything inherently wrong with polyamory. I find it to be a perfectly reasonable and acceptable way of life, albeit extremely difficult to successfully maintain.

Two comments though: I would not suggest you meet with her alone. Successful triads are build on excessively open communication, and I would want to make sure all communications in this situation were done three-way to prevent mixed messages.

It's not clear to me that you find this situation acceptable from your own perspective, or whether you are going along with it in an effort to stay with your husband. I do not believe a multiple situation can ever be successful unless all parties are fully committed. For you to engage in this for any reason other than you support and believe in the concept of multiple relationships will only prolong an inevitable disaster.

And if it's just about the hot sex? Well, if it was a situation other than the woman your WH has betrayed you with, I'd be all for it! In this situation, this is more fire than I'd be willing to play with, and I support poly-amory!!

never mind...
sorry
ark

<small>[ April 28, 2003, 09:13 PM: Message edited by: ark^^ ]</small>

Just to set things straight.

The girl in London is not the OW that my H has been betraying me with. She is someone we fell for and had a threesome situation with, while my H was having an affair with OW.

Why did I do it? Because I figured that if we, my H and I, seperate I wanted to live out this fantasy and he has been the only man so far I would feel comfortable with doing so.

Where am I now? Personally I don´t know. I am plan A:ing still because my H and I have STILL not talked about whether he has broke the affair or not. He is sad and withdrawn and I don´t want to get on top of him until he is ready. It is really unfair, since I feel it is him that is acting like a victim, though it is me has inflicted pain upon.

I´m showing him love and affection and at the same time trying to figure out where it is I want my life to go. What changes do I need to make to be a better, happier person.

We have not cancelled London, we are leaving Thursday morning. I don´t know what will happen there, but my hopes are high that I will get my H to understand that involving a third person in our marriage right now is way too threatening for me.

I want to connect with my H and I want to feel that he wants me. But I am afraid that he is not having the energy or will to pursue me or OUR love because he is in withdrawal. I accept that for the time being. My goal is to get him to turn around and see ME. Want ME. Snap out of the withdrawal and realize that he already has the most desirable amazing woman in the world for HIM, thats want to understand him, get to know him and be there for him. (wishful thinking eh...)

Having a good time with him in London is an essential part of him seeing the good sides of me. The deep, analytical, sensitive side of me. The fun loving side of me. The wild side of me. I want to let my hair down and feel free to be me!!!!

But to really involve girl in London again is actually crossing my boundaries in one BIG area of my mental state (him betraying me and me losing my trust in him, doubting him and his initial goals with all of this). But in the other state of mind I can see it is what we need to start anew. To fire up that passion for each other and to kick him out of withdrawal. Fall in love again.

So I am being pulled mentally all over the place and telling myself to slow me (us) down a bit to stop, look & listen.

An TM94 you are right, I did get scared away a bit by some of the comments. I do realize that for many, the things I am battling with are seen as totally immoral and unacceptable. But thats what in my point of view is so interesting about the different kinds of people that are here, being open to different kinds of problems and ways of living.

But the bottom line is that all of us need help. Sometimes we need encouragement, sometimes a tap on the back to say one is doing a good job and sometimes a slap in the face to look at things from the other side. I am grateful for all of these ways of support and will promise to try to not let them get me to run away, because it is too hard to face other truths than my own...

I would appreciate if anyone had some advice on how to handle the situation in London, should I fall into the temptation of meeting up with girl again with my H. I know I should be strong enough to be able to set that boundary NOW, but I am sorry, I am confused, following my basic instincts and am not at all sure to what will happen.

And no, I am not asking for support on accept for this situation if it against any of your moral principles, just advice on what I could do to not lead this girl on in the wrong way. Shouldn´t I tell her the situation straight out so she has no illusions.

Can´t any of you see how this could rock my H out of withdrawal and concentrate on me&us?

-queen-

Queen,
First of all, if your H is withdrawn that is a good thing. That means (to me anyway) that he is in withdrawl from the OW, hence he has broken it off with her. The next few weeks things will get much worse, not better. Look for unexplained anger (toward you), deep depression, more withdrawn, etc.

As far as the OW in London is concerned, I would contact her before you leave and explain the situation in detail. Let her know what she is getting herself into, and that you don't feel emotionally strong enough right now to have another sexual encounter. Lay all your cards on the table BEFORE you leave. Because once you get there and things start flowing you will loose your strength you have right now and fall into the temptation of the moment.

Honestly I don't see how this will bring your husband around to falling in love with you again. What I see happening is your H falling in love with the London girl. Sorry, I know that's not what you want to hear right now, but that's what I see. He is vulnerable right now because he just broke off what he sees as the best thing that ever happened to him, his OW. IMHO the London girl will drive another wedge between you and your H. She doesn't have to have the same feelings toward him, it will become and EA (obsession) for him.

Again Queen, I've walked this path already so I'm just relating my experiences to your situation. The one experience that you have already shared can kindle that desire and lust that you are seeking for a very long time. By talking about it and remembering it you will bond and elevate your sexual interest. What I'm trying to say is that there is nothing you can do to change the past, so use it to your advantage. But, I caution against continuing this type of relationship.

Again, there are many people out there who can live that lifestyle, BUT you MUST have an extremely sound foundation to do so. Your foundation is already crumbling and falling down, this will not help it. Now, if I would have found you in this situation a year ago I would have told you to go for it, nothing bad could come from it. But, that was before we had an extremely bad series of events that virtually destroyed our marriage. I just don't want to see anyone else go down that road.

queen. . .I'm not going to lecture you-take a moment or two (it's lengthy)to read my posts-for gosh sakes I just lived through nearly the exact situation--I'm the OMW who had A with OMM and he
convinced his W to have a 3-some encounter-3 different hotels, 1 out of town(LasV)-not only am
I dealing/processing this whole nightmare 1 yr later can you imagine the nightmares/memories the
OM's W has to deal with after she found out we were ALREADY having an A--how do you wipe out those images without a lobotomy....Oh yeah, all
4 of us to begin with "we all trust each other,
our marriages our stable. . blah,blah,blah)the consequences of these actions SUCK-it's a painful
healing to say the least.I believe to add insult to injury the OM'sW is telling people "it never happened, she's lying about everything"she needs counseling desperately.Here's my message to you,
THINK,what do you want, is this good for your marriage, family long term.

I don't know alot about open marriages. They seem like an oxymoron to me. Why make a promise to one person and that person only, if you can't keep the promise? We "sow our oats" when we're single because there is so much turmoil and chaos in seeing different people (ever tried dating 2-3 people at once?). Most of us grow up, decide we've had enough of single life and make the promise to love one person..."til death do us part". The "mechanics" of sex are pretty much the same no matter who you're with...bringing someone new into the relationship won't add anything you didn't know already! Sex is best when it involves trust, respect, love and a feeling of safety.

IMHO...it doesn't sound like your M is strong enough or committed enough to bring someone else (even casually) into it! If you proceed, it could be the action that finally destroys everything you are trying to preserve.

Thanks for the fast responses

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He is vulnerable right now because he just broke off what he sees as the best thing that ever happened to him, his OW. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">TM94, true, he is vulnerable but so am I. How do you think I feel after founding out he has been cheating on me? Sometimes I wonder why I even bother with any of this with him. What is there to save? And then this unbelievable experience with girl in L comes through and I wish I was back there, feeling her desire and need to connect to ME. Exactly the same things I am wishing from my H, but can see I will not be able to have because of his current state of mind.

If girl in L could see what kind of emotional rollercoaster she has caused for the both of us and the fragile situation, she would run. You are right I need to talk to her b4 we go...

The problem is she is a fire player too...and this might just also rock her boat too.

This afternoon I spent time with my H and his business meeitngs, being the perfect little secretary wife. Now I just consumed one gin& tonic and feel so unbelievabley fed up of it all. He actually came up to me and said he felt like I was acting really strange and distant. I am. I´m not up for him and his stupid "me,me,me " life at all right now.

Major LB`s I know.

Going to the hairdressers to shine myself up for 4 days alone with him tomorrow. What for???? going to pick up little black Gucci dress to go with it... What for again? Booked tickets to see a theatrical show in London called XXX, meaning an x-rated theatre live show to tease my mind...with him...What for again? I can´t understand why I want to share these things with him. He has betrayed me. Lost my trust.

I ask the same questions others do too here. Do I really love him anymore?

Sorry, but I am having a very bad moment right now, which is a bit nerve wrecking to hear I guess.

If nothing at least this is a channel to let the fume out whilst going down that rocky road of disaster....

Sorry guys, being really pathetic, but thats just sometimes how one feels!

-queen-

Had a long talk with him last night. FINALLY.

He said he was really scared that I would be going back to be the old me . The life where I let life go by on standby, without passion, without strength to know what it is I want.

The reason why he feared that was because he felt that now he finally chose me I have become more distant and cold towards him - like b4 the affair He´s right, but the reasons are different. I Told him that I´ve been like a cat avoiding the "hot porridge" by not asking him what happened with Ow last thursday-friday night. That I was trying to respect his space and allow him to digest his feelings of sadness etc..and I even told him that I was doing so, but that it was hard for me not to talk about it.

He could not understand that I was so focused on what happened between him and OW. He said that I now have him and that he has been trying to show me that it is me he loves and cares for.

Told him that even though he is showing that love & care that I still felt distant to him because of my need to talk. And that no matter what I was in two mental states of mind; one where I feel like a new person, stronger, more determined, not wanting to waste my life on worries and sorrow but to look at life as something positive and exciting - to move on and EXPERIENCE life. But on the other side I am feeling hurt and the shadow of all the pain and turmoil he has inflicted upon me has destroyed my trust towards him, and therefore being "free&alive" is not easy.

I told him that I felt that if we go to London & meet up with girl that I had very ambivalent feelings. On one side I feel threatened because of my loss of trust towards him. On the other I feel excited and wanting to "experience" life and the freedom of wanting to express myself in lots of different areas.

I also said that even though he was certain he could handle loving & caring for 2 women equally and this was the way he wanted to go. I was not certain and I did not want to feel pushed into something I was not ready for, because of those lurking shadows.

He felt that I was pulling back to the "old" me and expressed once again his fears of me not wanting to feel alive and build an exciting new marriage with him, whereas I told him that I felt he was getting fixated and obsessed about this threesome thing and couldn´t he see that everything I have just been through made me even more threatened and alert of what it is we are putting ourselves into.

It just seems like he is still in the fog and he has no capacity to see things from my point of view. I told him that I am not going to do anything I feel uncomfortable with and that he needs to respect that. It seemed like he was listening and accepting that comment, but I do not know.

He is still in withdrawal/fog and how much are "they" listening to in that state of mind? How much do they care for us the BS`s, respect us, willing to negotiate terms of co-existance?

It feels like he is still on his own ego-trip & the only needs he can see right now are his own.

Which makes my Plan A a difficult one, because it is about fulfilling EN. I can try to fulfill everything else but this newly arisen EN of SF & deeper level of understanding, conversation with 2 women simultaneously I am not ready to fulfil at least not to the extent that it would get so serious. And now he is TOTALLY fixated on that one.

Where do I draw the line, since 1) I am open to a new life style for ME and us but 2) I need to get past the unsolved issues in our relationship that have been building up during past 7-8 yrs and the end result of H having an affair.

And my H is 1) open to a new lifestyle for him and us but 2) is in a state of withdrawal/fog and not ready to deal with those unsolved issues, because he is trying to get over the affair.

I feel like it is me that needs to come up with all the answers because he has not got the slightest bloody clue of whats going on here.

Don´t you think the line is to do what I feel comfortable with and really truly listen to myself and my instincts?????? To do what I think is good for me & me only, then I am not passing any guilt or judgements to my H? My instincts have gotten me so far, haven´t they? Or am I really just SO naive to think that I have the inner strength in me to do that?

One size doesn´t fit all. By saying this I mean that the lives you all are living are different and the choices you all are making are different too. Nobody can tell you that you are making the right choices, because there are bound to be mistakes too. But one has to tailor ones life to fit the person/people in it.

I think I am coming to a conclusion that I might make big mistakes in my life right now, but I might also be making right choices. And I am asking myself do I want to live with the responsibility of the mistakes I might make on the way. To tell you the truth the issue here is whether I can handle losing my H, and I believe I can. If it was not meant to be, then it was not meant to be. But if it is - then wow what an exciting life we can build together.....

I do not want to linger in those shadows and let them pull me down....

-queen-

Here's a hypothetical trap:

H has A with OW. W has her DDay. H ends A with OW. H comes home to reconcile. H and W have mutual 'A' with 3rd person. H has the time of his life. Now H has proof to show in court that your vows were not 'special' in the DV proceedings because both H and W agreed to infidelity IN the M. H DV W and doesn't get stuck with alimony, maybe even custody of the children and M's OW after D'ing his W.

Ridiculous? Sure, but so is all of the other BullBiscuits that has happened to us up to this point.

Sorry for the bluntness of the reality that plays "Truth is stranger than fiction" on the devils violin.

Look at all the strange things BS and OP do to have their cake and eat it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">1) I´m afraid he will tell me it is over with her but that he and OW have made a promise that they will wait for each other if it does not work out.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Statistics here among MBers shows that H/W's will most likely continue the A, after 'ending it'... MANY times.

I don't think that its a good time for the 2 of you to become 3. When you see your H with the 3rd wheel, your going to think of the OW and your H. What really happened on that trip to 'end' the A?

husband2you. . excellent response-Queen you really need to read my posts under general questionsII "unbelievable story",this is a situation I lived through and 1 yr later the consequences will "ripple"for yrs over bad choices-some of what your H is saying is VERBATIM
what OMM I had an A with said to his W-eerie!I think he's manipulating you to get what he wants.