My Dear Lisa in London...

I just have a few minutes, but wanted to let you know that I have been lurking the whole time..and have followed your progression/threads ever since I 'disappeared'.

I have so often wanted to post to you and tell you I was here...and that I cared...and how much I knew exactly how you felt. You, Jen, and the other WS's will know more what I mean when I say this...perhaps my BS never 'physically' or 'emotionally' had an affair with someone else first..but there are all sorts of ways to betray and abuse and emotionally devastate another person besides an 'A'. I know that I read the pain and torture the BS's go through on here (and it seems that both you and Jen have become BS's via your H's) so I am in no way meaning to minimize what they are going through, but I feel that really only another WS would understand this...I would rather my H had had an affair, which is something that we could have had many tools to deal with (books, web sites, etc.) rather than the abuse and repetitious betrayals during our almost 20 yr marriage. No one, not even WS's has a cornerstone on being able to hurt, wound, and even destroy another person. I find it interesting when looking primarily at WS's who are NOT what some would call serial cheaters, that almost 90% (ok, that is my guess just from reading tons of threads) seem to be women who have had a controlling, angry, and/or emotionally abusive (or absent) H for a period of at least several years.

It's not like we just woke up one day (not that I think any WS actually does this..a serial cheater or not) and said "wow, even though my H is great..and is so loving to me...I want to cheat on him and rip his heart out of his chest...I think I can squeeze that in between 2 and 3:00 p.m. today and get home in time for dinner...lol"

Sorry, don't mean to be irreverent..these are just thoughts that have weighed on my heart and mind. Again, for all of those out there, I am in no way condoning an A just because we were abused..or neglected...or whatever. Heck, the emotional toll and utter soul-deep devastation that it has caused me, my kids..and yes, my H is enough to make me want to throw up when I think about it. I was always one of those who said I would never cheat...how could someone do that..if folks are so unhappy, they should divorce..and then find someone else. I used to hold these beliefs as an integral part of who and what I thought I was. My story is long...and I don't want to get into that here. The story doesn't matter anyways because it should never have happened, it did, and I have and will continue to live with the after-effects for many years.

Lisa, sorry..I am rambling...I had to leave because my H was furious I was posting here. He pulled the laptop out of my hands while I was on this board (even though I offered to show him what I was typing, had told him my user name, etc.) and he accused me (IN FRONT OF OUR KIDS!!!) of having an affair with JL (Just Learning). I hid in the closet and cried for hours from the shame I felt...from the look on the kid's faces about the thought that their Mom was who*ing around again..and I've never posted again since.

I have to run, but I wanted to let you know that I am pulling for you..and you and I are both strong women..we will make it...we have done what we can to take responsibility...to atone...and sometimes..you just have to let go. We can't make someone else give/grant us forgiveness...or be capable of an emotional maturity that they have never had..and are not willing to reach for. I know that both of us have risen from the ashes of the devastation that we brought about (the A's) and are better for it (although an 'A' is definitely not my 'growth tool of choice'..lol). That is the saving grace part of it...the only thing besides my kids that has kept me sane.

Well, need to go for a call...

Love You..have missed you and Topie..and so many of the others!

YR

YR - yeah yeah yeah, you are back!!!!!!!! I missed you so bad, I didn't know where to find you, and you were there all along!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Not so long ago, I posted to Kily and said "Do you remember YR, I wonder what happened to her". We laughed about our addictions to cigarettes and chocolate hob nobs, oh dear, what addictive people we are.

Take heart, I am much much better than I was then, although if you have followed my posts, you have followed my pain, my shame, my lowest of lows, and my eventual realisation that nothing I can do or say will change anything, and with that my slow slow travel back upwards for me but away from my H as we move towards DV and he moves towards a more intense R with Shiney Head.

Well, if you and JL were having an A, I guess so were the majority of the other struggling people here who he jumps in and saves. I hope you are OK, truly I do. I guess things are still hard.....

Please e-mail me if you can, I will delete the address out in a day or so.

Lisa

<small>[ May 02, 2003, 03:52 AM: Message edited by: Lisa in London ]</small>

Hey Hey!

I saw that post that mentioned me that you referred to..the one that talked about our addictions...and the best ways to resist the temptation to call the OM...lol <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

That is one reason why I finally could not resist posting to you. I had seen the growth you made..and the struggles you went through...and how strong you have become...and have been so very very proud of you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I wanted to post to you so many times and tell you how much I admire you and offer my support. When I read your post of all the 'stuff' he wanted or could get from you in a DV settlement...I was hopping mad! LOL...maybe it is better I wasn't posting to you then <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I was sorely tempted to dump a glass of water on your H's head during that last dinner/meeting you had with him.

I love the name "Shiney-head"!

Yes, I figured JL might get a chuckle out of the accusation. It was so ridiculously far-fetched that it is unbelievable. I let him read everything I ever posted to everyone..and he could see what JL posted back. It's just since I was guilty of 1 A, I was guilty of everything..with everyone.

To want me to never post on MB, to not ever making time to go to counseling...it just sucks. Sorry folks, but I am not going to get a POJA with my H on this. I can't support a POJA that doesn't lend itself to making this marriage better...and in fact tears it apart even more. This has been the pattern of our entire marriage..no counseling (not interested..besides, as he put, the counselor would just 'side' with me anyways..so why go?). Pretending we are ostriches and sticking our heads in the ground won't make my A go away...or make all of his betrayals of our vows go away (what I mean by this is the vow to cherish, protect...care for..) What does Harley have to say about POJA when it is contrary to the health of a marriage and this has been the pattern of the marriage? I am being serious..I don't really know..it's always been confusing viewing the info on this site from a WS perspective.

Things are still hard, but a little better than they used to be. It got so bad that my youngest daughter was begging me to divorce her Dad. It doesn't get much worse than that <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I've followed your story, Jen's (Jen...I feel for you..and I'm gonna hide your phone away some place where you can't find it..lol..just teasing you), 2Longs, Spacecase, Honey, Topie's (another lady I am so very proud of) and many many others. I've felt like I was still here in many ways...

Well, I've got your email addy and will drop you a quick line (so you can edit your post now with the email address in it if you wish). I am getting ready to run to a christian bookstore with my youngest daughter. She has a clogging (a type of Country and Western tap dancing..that is the best way I can explain it) in San Antonio tomorrow night..so we will be leaving in the morning...it is at least 5 hours away from here.

Take care and know that many prayers and thoughts..and wishes of happy things have been coming over to you from Texas!

Love,

YR

Just wanted to say 'hi' to you, Lisa. Know that I'm thinking of you.

Waving to Yellow Rose, too. THanks for sharing here, reading your opinion helped me, too.
Take care Lisa. Let us know how things are going.

H_P

PS I too laugh when I read Shiney head....

Lisa, I am so glad to see that you're not down in the dumps still. I get worried when anyone on here is down for too long... b/c the longer you're down, the harder it is to get back up again.

I am also so glad to see you posting some of the positives of being apart from your H. Your biking and trips sound like a lot of fun! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I'm looking forward to doing some outings soon too... although mine have more to do with a few hours here and there, as opposed to days and weeks. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

And YellowRose!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> It is good to see that you're still around... even if just lurking. I'm sorry to hear that your H isn't "getting it", as far as MB goes. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> But you could still be here for YOU. Same thing goes for counselling... are you seeing an IC? And I'm glad you've been following my story... I'd hate to have to figure out a short version anytime soon! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> (although one day, I will do a "my story" link).

Hugs to all... and I too, get a laugh out of "Shiney Head". Some of the nicknames of OP's and S's on here just kill me some days! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Karen

Dear All

Thank you so much for the thumbs up. I am delighted that in the week when I firstly made most people cry (my crushing realisation of loosing so much of a way of life), I can turn that round and give everyone a good laugh at the nickname of OW <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> If anyone out there has Irish blood, it is a pun on her name, you may guess it. I have to say it was actually dear Porsche (who I am sure you all know) who gave her that name. I sometimes forget what her real name is, because anyway, she is so unimportant <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hi Karen (Topie), yes I am really battling this week. My Mum said to me "Lisa, it's your head, don't let him get inside it" and I thought how true is this. This weekend in the UK is a bank holiday (we get Monday off for no other reason than it is May Day!) and I wasn't sure what to do. Most of my friends have gone out of Town, and I didn't know whether to go to my Mum's or not. I realised that I really didn't fancy the drive, and also it was running away a bit from what has been a tough time. I called ALL my friends, and found people who are going to be around and made plans to go out some nights, cycle and get to the gym. I am also planning on beginning to tackle the mess in my office (and boy oh boy is there a lot of mess!!!). It seemed to me I was "down" for a long time, but I hope I stay "up" for a long time too.

H_P I'm glad you didn't go too far away. I see you have been giving some other people here sound advice. Sometimes, I think it helps me more inside to post to other people, at least it stops me moaning about my lot!! I'll stop by your thread later. Are you a Texas gal too H_P?

Karen (YR) - I have e-mailed you back. I can't believe I was soooo excited to see you. It felt like an eon and I guess it was about last August time that you stopped posting. As Topie says, it seems hard that you can't post here about yourself or even get to MC on your own. If you can post more about yourself please start a thread, if not e-mail me directly and I will do anything I can to support you. E-mail me anyway <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> You are right though that I have grown. I sometimes feel fundamentally that I am so different. I'm not really, but I think I am more thoughtful, insightful, and yes, I still abhor even the notion of infidelity.

Well, it's rainy today (H_P you should know that it always rains for the Bank Holiday weekend!!), but I feel almost resolute, strong. I'm determined not to even think about what H may or may not be doing this weekend, because whatever, I am going to make sure that I have fun.

I have also booked to go and see my friend in Switzerland (who I mention earlier in this thread that I was talking to) at the end of May. Not so long ago, I couldn't go anywhere or see anyone that didn't know what was going on. I couldn't face people - I was ashamed of myself and what had happened. Deep down, that will never go away completely, but I am beginning to hold my head up now, accept my responsibility and mistakes, learn from them, become a better person and move on.

Have a great weekend everyone whatever you may be doing or wherever you may be.

Lisa

Lisa-

You weren't kidding. We really ARE cosmic twins!!!

I'm so GLAD for your empowerment. You sound very healthy and almost happy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

We are going to be okay...aren't we?

From sunny Stratford upon the housatonic -Have a great day!

Kily

We could have been separated at birth on Planet Fog, and then joined again in earth on Planet Reality <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I do worry when the next relapse will come, but not too much. I know I still have to deal with H, and that's always upsetting, but I read your stories and others, and that gives me strength because I know what I have to do and how I have to be when we communicate. And one day, one day it really will get better.

Have a great weekend Kily whatever you may be doing. We'll be paddling in the rain in London, but hopefully the sun will shine for long enough to get out on my bike and have some fun.

Lisa

After more than a week or being completely positive and upbeat about everything, including job interviews, fun nights out and keeping busy, yesterday the DV papers arrived. To see it in black and white was quite a shock. Even to see H's writing upset me, that he admitted adultry, that he wouldn't pay costs because he doesn't have the money (goodness, and he only wants £42k from me), well, it stirred up the feelings.

I tried hard not to let it get me down, but on Monday it is our 8th wedding anniversary, and the irony of it all, well it hasn't gone by me. I was wondering whether or not I should acknowledge Monday with him, but now see no point in that at all. So when I sign the papers (which have to be witnessed by a Solicitor) and send them back, they will set a date for the Decree Nisi. I guess that will probably be through in a few weeks, and then it is the Absolute about 6 weeks after.

So, happy days here in London...... not.

Lisa

Oh Lisa, my heart goes out to you. The reality of it has to be a shocker, no matter how ready you think you are. If things with me and my H fall apart, we'll be Dv-ed by our 8th anniversary too.

Stay strong my dear!

Jen

Oh how I know the deep sadness of seeing the burial of years of hopes and dreams, die with the official documentation that says 'it's over'. Your head may say 'it's for the best' but your heart is crying nonetheless. I share your pain Lisa. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

TMC brings it to the point. The head says one thing, but to carry the emotional burden of a maybe quite rational decision is really, really hard.
How many times have I asked my WW - are you sure you want this? are you sure? is this the way it has to be?? why does it have to be this way??
First I was incredulous, but after having heard time and time again the same answer.... well, then you're in the place where YOU are now, which is rational acceptance of the situation. But that alleviates the pain only partially, of course. Silly thought, ... but: why not let WH a brief note saying how you feel, and asking if he's really really sure?
Have a nice weekend Lisa and take care of yourself
N

((((( Lisa )))))

I'm sorry that you're hurting. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I felt the same way, when I got my H's response to my original affadavit. Seeing it on paper, right in front of me, made it so "real". In my case, the part that got me the most, was seeing him put in writing that he knows nothing of the "child" porn. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> But of course... I knew to expect the lies.

It's good to see that your H is NOT making false statements though. I'm particularly impressed that HE admitted to adultery. It gives me a feeling of hope for him after all (even if it is way off in the future <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ).

Karen

<small>[ May 09, 2003, 09:20 AM: Message edited by: Topie25 ]</small>

Hi All and many many thanks for your support.

This afternoon I went to an independent Solicitor to sign the Affidavit confirming H's signature on the papers and sent them off. I came out and felt really tearful, but choked the tears back and stood tall with my head high. I do not know what else I could possibly have done.

Karen thanks for the hugs. Yes, it's the seeing it written there that makes it so very real. I am glad you have some hope for H. Sadly, I believe the only reason he agreed to me divorcing him was so that he didn't have to pay any money.....

Nick, I am glad that you are really giving your W the chance to think this through, because believe me the reality, well you know how I feel about the reality. You are right about the rational aspects of this and in my head I know what I am doing is the right thing. In my heart, I think as time goes on I too know it is the right thing, but it just hurts. I wish I could write the note, but the last 2 times I sent anything personal to H (the text message after the match and the e-mail where I said I was filing with a heavy heart and much sadness) he just ignored them. I don't know if I can get that slap again.

Thanks CM for your support - yes the old head and heart situation again. I never got married thinking I'd be DVing - well we none of us do, do we?

Hey Jen, it's ironic about the anniversary isn't it? I have to say though I was glad that the papers didn't arrive on Monday because that really would have been awful. I am trying to stay positve because, I know I can't keep running myself into the ground.

Well, the good news is that the interview I went for on Wednesday I have been asked back next week for second interview. I am really pleased about this and it was a positive today amongst the sadness.

Thank you all for your care.

Lisa

Lisa-

I'm sorry that you have gotten here, but now you have a freedom that you've not had in a long time. You no longer have to sit and wonder...you can now start to heal.

I wish I could hug you in person....

Chin up.

Lisa, I admire your courage and hope to emulate you when the time arrives for the final signing. I have petitioned my lawyer to have my WH served, and this will be done this coming Monday. I have cried ever since Tuesday am, when I placed this call. I question myself whether I should have tried once more; however, my H's love for me just died. His vascillation between me and the OW..well, I learned that his contact with me was only as a result of prompting from the OW, so I do not file for divorce. You see, I stand to gain 1/2 of the remainder of his assets. I did not want to do and am misting up just typing this; however, I cannot do it anymore. I hope that I am like you and can someday hold my head high. You are truly an amazing woman and we can all gain a glimmer of hope from your trials.

Good Luck and God Bless

Lisa .....

Sometimes, there is nothing like a day in bed with a large spoon and a quart of ice cream.

Grieve properly, and with gusto. it makes the healing easier.

Take care.

(((LISA)))

Pep

Hi Lisa,

Sometimes I want to help but don't know what to say.

Still care about you, and how you feel.

Wish I could do more.

SS

<small>[ May 09, 2003, 02:24 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Hi Lisa so sorry to see that it has come to this. i oo felt like crying when I swpre thae affadavit because I knew that even then despite everything if H would have let me I could have continues o live with him. However he made it clear that this was it for him so now I am slowly healing and moving on.

Jante

((((Lisa))))

Must be hard to see your last hope vanishing...
Maybe that is why it hurted that much?

I'm sorry and I feel for you.

But always remember when God closes a door in another place he opens up a window, you just have to look for that window, and start opening a few more. If you beleive this you will be fine.
I know now is not the time you are grieving the last of it, but feelings are controled by the mind please try to cheer you up with friends and family in this hard times.

Take care