Thanks for the great eye opening support. Is this not a MB marriage related problem? The post heading is not addressing my potential affair "Affair or No Affair???" It was intended to be viewed in concept of my M. My H's propositions or affairs. I wanted support on how anyone may feel if there was just the suggestion without proof of an affair in a M. The signs have been there all this time, and there is proof H has tried over and over, but denies the actual act. Even after many times of taking him back and hearing promises of good intentions, it always seems we hit the same bottom line, proportioning of AW to get what we so desperately need in our M (intimacy). I want to try and understand why my H feels he must ask OW for what we both need, and why he chooses not to ask me. I have realized all of these:
I am rejected by 2 MM now
rejection has come second nature to me
I am not happy in the M
I will never find out what makes H more likely to seek OW's attention
I may never be happy with M, even if I decided to try again
I have counseled, gave, listened, stopped nagging, let him believe I am happy, accepted him, but still he wants OW.

YOU SEE, having no one to talk to:
I thought:
I may be wrong at attempting an affair, so I came here for support. I needed guidance.

Have I got it?
Or has my post been used by members as an opportunity to let the other women have it and point out anything in my situation that should cause me pain cause I should not look over any painful detail? <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />
I would sincerely appreciate everyone's opinion <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
NR

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I guess I am here because I decided to proposition someone myself. It just happened this week, but I am not feeling guilty in anyway. I believe I will do it again, and if this OM decides to change his mind, I will go through with it. I guess I feel bad about being rejected or maybe I just want someone to justify my actions. I do not have my H to talk to, so here I am. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You might have started out questioning whether or not your H had an affair...but you took this thread in another direction with these comments.

You say you are NOT feeling guilty about propositioning this MM. You also state that if he changes his mind, that you will go through with it.

Here's the kicker.... maybe I just want someone to justify my actions. I do not have my H to talk to, so here I am

No one here is going to justify your actions. NOONE! You are getting great advice here...but it is not the advice that you want to hear. You want people to tell you that you are justified in your attempt to have an affair with a MM. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Surely you can see the lunacy in asking for that (here of all places. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ).

People told you that you were wrong in attempting an affair. I am confused about what type of "support" you think might come with that. The only guidance you can possibly receive here is people telling you to NOT do it. They tell you the reasons that you shouldn't do it. What else can they do? They cannot physically stop you. They can only hope to pray on your sensibilities. You just seem to not want to accept what they are saying...as they don't understand. Of course they understand. The unfortunate truth is, they understand all too well.

You are not wanting what they have to offer, but it is the ONLY thing that anyone here can offer you in guidance.

committed

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by NurseRose:
<strong>
I would sincerely appreciate everyone's opinion <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
NR</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Somehow I doubt that.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I guess I feel bad about being rejected or maybe I just want someone to justify my actions. I do not have my H to talk to, so here I am.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">JUSTIFY = defined = get an explaination for

I did not expect or want an approval from anyone.
I have tried to talk with H, his response was the usual, walking away. I just asked about his happiness, and expressed my unhappiness. He wanted more sex, I wanted more intimacy. If he does not talk about our problems, then they do not exist.

Nice to hear from you again Melody....


I am also not a deceitful person.....
Hate me for the potential affair I belived I needed to get a grip on my H position, but please don't accuse me of being something I am not (the OW of many).

I am not what you think, and thank you both for your opinions.
nr

Nr,

Here is the appropriate defintion for the word justify..

To demonstrate or prove to be just, right, or valid: [b]

To declare free of blame; absolve. [/b]

To free (a human) of the guilt and penalty attached to grievous sin

With all due respect, your definition seems a bit insipid (for lack of a better word).

People were giving you just what you asked for..there is NO justification for having an affair...regardless of what your H might or might not have done.

committed

<small>[ April 27, 2003, 02:41 PM: Message edited by: committedandlovingit ]</small>

My H was not the A type guy... He was too holy! After all, he had been in the seminary, he prayed the rosary, and he sang in the church choir. He even talked with our priest about becoming a deacon.

Now he realizes the truth of the proverb "Pride goes before the fall."

Thanks for sharing brokenheart & arm,
In general everyone seems to think
Affair is a bad idea!
I agree with this and will not play that forward.
Would it had been any better, if the OM was not married? Would it been any better, if the MM had propositioned me?
As the BS myself, I always blamed the OW.
But, after the 6 time, I felt it was not just the OW, but it was either me or just the commitment to me that lead my H away.
Nr

<small>[ April 27, 2003, 03:45 PM: Message edited by: NurseRose ]</small>

I think that most here are of the feeling that if there is not a willing ow, that affairs would not be nearly as prevalent. I am not angry at h's ow, I am angry and hurt by him. I think she has the morals of an alley cat, but he is to blame because he took the vows and pledged his love to me

It does make a huge difference that he is married. You propositioned a *married* man, doesn't matter if his wife doesn't give it up, doesn't understand him, doesn't pay attention to him, doesn't do anything. What matters is that he is bound to *her*. It is unfair to try and come between that, even if it isn't a happy marriage in his or your eyes.

Having an affair with a single man would be very destructive to YOU, but it would really just be you that is going to suffer. Having an affair with a married man causes LOTS of people to suffer that have nothing to do with you. My children have suffered, I have suffered and h has suffered(though it is his fault he put himself in that position) I am sure his fow has suffered, heck she gained the weight I lost <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> She KNEW he was married so I really don't care, she got what she signed up for. I didn't

Your h sounds like a real jewel. If he is as bad as you say, and you don't see a way to save the marriage and be happy, leave. Find happiness but do it with an available man, don't bring this kind of unhappiness on others. It isn't fair.

From your description, my guess is that your h has had multiple affairs, it sounds as if that is your gut feeling also. My motto is as long as there is love within both of the parties toward each other, the marriage is worth saving. If one has no love left, not much to salvage. You might want to ask yourself that

Hello, I'm new too, and have read with interest the discussion about having an affair. It hits home, since I recently, (wednesday) I ended one that was brief (4 months) I am here looking for support to keep my committment to myself, not to mention my husband. My lover expects an email from me tomorrow so I am reading everything on this sight to help me get through Monday, and Tuesday, and Wednesday and....so this discussion is what Im doing instead of emailing my lover, choices, choices. Tearful, ending, affairs are not the way to go, my friend said, she shared with me about hers, we both have been through divorces, so what's wrong with us?

I told my husband last weekend that I'll give our marriage a year. It did not take overnite for us to get in this sad shape so it will not change overnight. I will say this, since printing out virtually everything I could from this site that I could, he has been patient in listening to me read it almost every night. He took me to lunch saturday, (McDonald's, he's so tight) And he seems to be trying to make things better. I am not the kind of person to have an affair, either, but I found myself in one, because I am so lonely. I have explained this to him, among so many other things, I asked him if he would get counseling, he said "why? you need to talk to somebody?" I said, No, WE need to talk to somebody. But He won't because it would cost money. On and On....I have enjoyed the commments from Dino.....I need support...haven't told my husband about the affair, to be honest I may never, I care for him, and since he's been through a divorce too, I wouldn't want him to feel and more pain. We have four children between us. And that's another reason I got out of the affair, I have tried to be a good mother, and with two 19 year olds, one 17 year old and one 15 year old, you may be wondering where did you find the time for an affair anyway? HA when the heart is lonely, it seeks a way. Somebody help me remain on the right path. Although in my heart of hearts I know no one can help me but me. My heart aches for the lover, even though we've only been together once, but constantly emailed each other, he is an old school friend, has family, two sons, and I have no right, Dino, to intrude into his family. You are right, thank you for that comment, although his wife could sure read the info on sex and be greatly improved. but its not my place to take space in their marriage. I have wished my husband would pass on so I would not feel guilty for wanting D. I hope that if 20 or 30 years pass and C is gone that D will find me or I him. Thanks for all the discussion....

I CANNOT believe what the &*%$ I am reading in this thread!!!!!!!!

I have wished my husband would pass on so I would not feel guilty for wanting D. I hope that if 20 or 30 years pass and C is gone that D will find me or I him.

Ok, by debidraw, by passing on I assume you mean "die" correct? You wish your H would die so you don't feel guilty about cheating?? OMG, where the he** are your priorities?? What kind of self-esteem do you two (nurserose&debidraw) have that you are willing to put yourselves in this position? You have to know that the comments you have made will bring negative comments back to you??? Good God, I read through this thread and wanted to vomit!!! I rarely post anymore 'ecept to a few peeps, but I couldn't stay out of this one. I don't know why though, since it seems to me that the type of support you two want you won't find here. Debidraw, I do commend you on ending your A, now how about repairing your M or getting out of it b4 it happens again?? BTW, if you're ever going to move forward, you will HAVE to tell your H. You know I had a pointe I was trying to hit home, but after reading this thread I'm so angry (don't know why, I don't know either ofyou) that I don't know how to put my words down. I'll leave it to the GWO's, maybe they can talk some sense in. It seems the support you two want can be found on another site, but I won't say which or put a link in as that site makes me even more sick to think about...maybe someone else has the stomach for this..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

NR ~

Lets see if I understand you.

You have a husband who cheats on you, and is uninterested in you or your marriage.

You've tried repeatedly for years to fix it, without success.

Therefore, you have concluded that your marriage is not fixable, nor do you have the ability to try anymore.

Therefore, your marriage is over.

BUT, you have kids. And because you are a good mom you are going to sacrifice yourself for your kids, and besides, starting out on your own is scarey, so while your marriage is dead, you still like your husbands financial support.

So, your marriage is dead, but you can't leave. And your husband is cheating and treating you like crap.

You aren't having an affair if your marriage is already dead and your spouse is cheating first, right?

Basically, you are asking us for our agreement that given all these facts about your horrible husband and your marriage, that we give you a big thumbs up exception when it comes to adultry.

Leaving all those facts and rationalizations aside, your also needing an ego boost...getting together with a married man would give you some of your self-respect back....since your husband doesn't want you, at least you are able to pull another man away from HIS wife! And besides, its not your job to keep the MM faithful...if he has made himself available, it might as well be YOU that he sleeps with right?

Since you are so virtuously sacraficing your freedome for your kids sake...you should be free to make yourself happy with whatever means are available in the meantime...

The problem here is that no one is going to agree that adultry is bad EXCEPT if:

1. your marriage is dead
2. you are staying for the kids and financial reasons
3. your spouse is cheating already

I don't know if you are religious at all...but the commandment about adultry does not read "Thou shalt not committ adultry (except for the following reasons...)

But maybe you aren't religious. Did you take vows when you got married? Was there fine print on those that allow what you are asking us for permission?

You see, I think thats where you need to be looking for permission, instead of asking a bunch of faceless people on the net for permission to have an affair.

Nobody here is going to think that in YOUR case, you are justified. The answer you are going to get is pretty consistent.

Leave your husband, get divorced. THEN seek happiness with some other single man.

Otherwise, YOU will be the person who suffers the most from your choice to have an affair, not to mention the suffering of all the other people involved (all of whom you have neatly written off in rationalizations - this includes your children).

Everyone here agrees that your husband is indeed cheating on you, and that you are being mistreated. Nobody is going to agree that your response should be to selfishly seek your own happiness in aother man's bed.

If you want to divorce him, no one here will abuse you for it. Not everyone can find the strength to stay in a marriage with that kind of betrayal. If you want to stay and fix your marriage, you'll get all kinds of support from us in your efforts.

But what you won't ever get is permission to cheat, for any reason.

Deb....its really time to get honest... and real honest at that.

For everyones sakes, write a no contact letter to your OM... and cease all contact ( you do need closure) Then tell your husband of your affair.. do so asap... even if it means having someone present.. eg a marriage councellor/ friend.. your husband has a right to know.

Your husband has a right to know your marriage is not what he feels it is... your husband has a right to know he has been put at risk of STD's ( dont think they cant happen.. they do all too often)

Overall he has a right to make a choice whether or not he wants to stay in a marriage after such a betrayal...

I dont believe you would rather your husband drop of his stool.... I believe your extremely confused...the emotions you are riding high on right now were born in a lake of deceit... they are no doubt very intense and feel very real for you....I bet there is a huge tug of war going on. There are no easy answers out of this mess, so dont expect any.

Honestly...Do you really think it is possible for you to live happily ever after in this fairytale romance your caught up in with another womans husband? Somebody elses father?....

Its time to take a good look at yourself....over stepping the boundary of someone elses marriage ( no matter what the OM tells you..coz its usually big fat porkies anyhow... remember he has his own agendas and his own issues to step out of his marraige)is wrong. Dead wrong.

You have made a mess, its now time to start cleaning it up.

Get honest with yourself first....that makes the job of being honest to those that love you the most so much easier.

get into councelling ( by yourself if your H wont go)

See your local health care professional and discuss the possibilty of depression.

Take care.

Dino.

There is a difference if the OP is not married. That is one less person -- the spouse -- and possibly also the children of the marriage that you are going to hurt.

I HATED Sophia, but my family -- who found out about the broken arm on the night that I learned of the A -- dismissed Sophia as irrelevant. My witty father said, months later, "There are 200,000 Sophias .... pause ... in the Twin Cities!" It made me laugh.

When you have an A, you hurt yourself most. You lie and deceive. If you are considering an A and are looking for a potential target, then perhaps your real desire is not so much for your ENs to be met as to take revenge on your H. I wouldn't want to wish what I have gone through on Ted Bundy... or Hitler! Don't get embroiled in revenge! Just get out! If you do, perhaps, just perhaps, your H will wake up and decide you need to be treated better.

A few weeks ago on Harley's program, I heard a woman who was parked outside a clinic because her husband had beaten her up, she was in pain, and she was reluctant to go in because she was covered with bruises but she thought she needed to because she suspected she had a broken rib. Here she was, saying, "How can I report him? I promised my God that I would marry him for life!" Harley's reply was that she had not promised, "I will stay married to you even if you beat the living daylights out of me." He said the marriage vows are of mutual care. If your H isn't caring for you, then you need to take action -- separation to protect from further physical harm.

In your case, your H seems not to be caring for you. Plan B, not an A. You hurt yourself with an A. My H, much as I have been furious at him, has certainly suffered a great deal because of the A. He told his mother on May 5 last year, she told her husband in a nursing home, the father took an immediate turn for the worse, and the father died two weeks later without my H having a chance to talk with him. Can you imagine? And I told our priest, my family won't ever see him again, he's in anger management weekly, .... It's been hard.

Take care of your part of the marriage vows. That means recognizing when there isn't mutual care and separating until there is.

Bramblerose
Great points and without insults. Thank you

I make 20 G more than my H a year.
It is not the $$.

I stayed because,
I did not want to give up what we had together.
I could not give up on what I believed our M could be.
It did not help I received so many empty promises from H.

I commend you on hitting some needed eye opening points for me.
AN AFFAIR IS OUT OF THE QUESTION!
I believe I will approach my H to see where love is, if he does not walk away again. I will also be looking into the big D.
Thanks again,
NR

<small>[ April 27, 2003, 07:29 PM: Message edited by: NurseRose ]</small>

Great post Bramblerose.

Debodraw, you will get more replies if you start your own thread.

Nurserose, you seem to think you must have a man at all costs and if the one you signed up to doesn't want you, you'll manjack someone elses. That's no way to boost your self esteem. Stop fence sitting. The only person who can make you happy is you. Don't live to regret your inaction.

Update on my situation.....
There will be no affair........
I was approached to see if the offer still stood by the MM. He came back this week. I told him I must work on my M, and I was sorry but I did not wish to bring anoother family into an unhappy R like mine.
Thank you all for your help,
NR

Nurserose, THANK YOU for having the integrity that appearnently your H or this potential OM did not.

Best of wishes to you NR.

MTD

My H said no many times before there was a yes. Make sure there is no more intimate conversation with MM or your no may become a yes as well.