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We talked about some of this, but I wanted to post it to see it in writing, and to see if anyone else wants to comment on it.
It seems like there are 3 basic things you need from her. Not as demands, but letting her know that you need these merely as means of survival..... things you don't see any way of negotiating on... ask her if she can commit to these things.
1. Compatibility with your family, and your BEST, true-est friends in your support circle (baby-sitters, neighbors, etc.). Is she willing to accept and establish civil communications with them? With the understanding, of course, that they will also treat her respectfully. Seems like this has been the biggest area of growth for you... you have built this support network, and you and the boys are thriving in it. She should respect that, and want to become a part of it.
2. No contact with OM, or that you 2 will negotiate together a reasonable "visitation" schedule between OM and OC. IMO, this goes along with what the others have said about asking her for her help - her plan - for rebuilding trust.
3. Counseling.
Aren't these 3 things necessary? Everything else (falling in love, learning to meet each other's needs, parenting, etc.) can fall into place.
Faith1
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Anyone else wanna suggest any questions I need to be asking her tonight? Call is going to be at 1000p central
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It almost sounds as though tonight's phone call is a "make or break" thing. Am I right? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> If that's the case, then the first item up for talks should be scheduling ANOTHER talk on the phone, for let's say, tomorrow night? or a few nights from now? At least that way, with another "talk" to look forward to, you'll be able to write down all of those questions that will pop into your head AFTER you talk to her tonight.... and have the opportunity to ask them. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> The only other suggestion I can think of, is for you to do what you can to get yourself relaxed before talking to her. Is that possible? Only you know the answer to that one. Myself, I'd have a shot of something, or a glass of wine. I doubt Harley would recommend alcohol in a situation like this, and I'm not sure what your view on drinking is, but I know that one drink can sure help settle the nerves! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> (speaking from experience... as I just had two rye and gingers tonight with some neighbour friends... and I haven't had a drink in MONTHS!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ) Take care, I'm thinking of you tonight.. nothing but GOOD thoughts and vibes are headed your way! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Karen
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Well my prefered drink would have been several 'ritas', but I choose to have a couple of Corona's. I'm a little nervous, but I guess this is 'it' as for decisions go. I can feel the vibes coming Karen <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Any last takers? <small>[ May 06, 2003, 10:07 PM: Message edited by: Husband2you ]</small>
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Should have guessed it... the phone line is busy... so either one of the children is on the phone, and cancled the callwaiting feature, or its off the hook.
So I put the boys in bed, they'll have to talk to her in the a.m.
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H2Y, What talk????? Should this be her opportunity to convince you? You have talked your heart out so many ways, aren't you pooped from all that talk? I just want you to see if she is willing to try, if not how can you expect more, the right amount from her? Anything less is denying your family what is their right. Ok, that's my 2 cents. Faith1 is right on. I know she is being a bit blunt but that's what family is about..... loving and blunt. Listen to her..... she has your wellbeing and that of your family at heart. Me too! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Aloha bro', L.
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Well her phone was busy until midnight. She woke up and called... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> to let me know she was going back to bed, that she had been asleep since 930pm.
I called her this morning at 0700 and she was just getting out of the shower.
I guess us talking wasn't very important.
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((((((( H2Y )))))))) Gee, your W's "not talking" to you sure speaks volumes to me! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Did you ever complete that plan B letter of yours? (I think you were writing it around the time I was just going to, or coming back from the shelters... so I honestly can't remember). Karen
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Hi H2Y,
Any new news on the WW? How are you doing? I was reading your thread and I am interested.
October
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Here's my rambling thoughts on this...take whatever serves you...
With all great respect to you ..
It doesn't sound to me like the two you even really like eachother right now...
that you are struggling with rebuilding issues but not looking at the smaller building blocks needed...
I wonder if you are able or wanting to protect your spouse at all
and that's not a judgement just an observation...
but the ability in my opinion to protect her and too as the vows say cherish her must be present in some form...
or I don't think it will even begin to work....
My question is not do you love her...my opinion onlove is rather easy....I love lots of things and people ....but I sure don't like lots...and there are plenty out there that I don't like enough to be married too...only one so far that I've liked enough to marry....
I think for anything to work you have to start with liking eachother first...
or else nothing else really matters or will work...
I also wonder how you feel about your children and their mother in their lives in some way...
the big picture of if not marital recovery, two adults co-parenting to the best of each ability and priority...
AND AGAIN husband2y this is NOT a judgement over your parenting role...you have done what you have thought best with what I hope is the childrens needs first...
So my next question what do you think about her and the children and where/how does she as their mother fit in their lives...
realizing that she may be guilty of causing them pain....
but is that not a place where healing should be sought...
Are you two spending any time together...
are you even living near eachother...I am easily confused...
If you really truly believe she is damaging to the children emotionally...then shouldn't you all be seeking supervised visits/counselling to address these issues..
And are you punishing your wife...or feel the urge to do so?...
and that's just a question not a judgement...the answer is your's alone to deal with...
but i would encourage you to wrestle these things through before engaging in to much of a heavy emotional investment with her..
1. do you even like her.
2. can you find a way to have her in the children's life even if you two don't ever resolove much
3. can you be with/around her without feeling like acting out on punishment...(hard to say the feeling of wanting to punish someone isn't present if it is...)..it's just the acting on it that is not right....
ark
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Good luck, H2Y. You make it as nasty as it gets. Make your checklists. Make it impossible for her to be a mother to ALL the children she has born through your rules and regulations...
but someday, Lucidity's depression is not going to paralyze her the way it is now. What are you going to do with all your demands and conditions when she gets a lawyer and with documentation from your own hand (your list) and the no win situation with regard to the other child, she'll kick your fanny pretty hard.
Wake up man. This has to be a win-win, even if it's over. Your behavior hasn't been impeccible. You've done a lot of good things, but you've also painted yourself in the best possible light of a martyr father and her in the worst possible light as an uncaring mother. I don't buy either extreme.
One bit of advice that may be too late for you to take - and it may cost you some of your "good buddies" if you do reconcile your marriage...
I have been ever so careful when I've been righteously angry with my husband in how I talked with others about him. Because my primary goal was to be married and right before God, I knew that eventually I wouldn't be angry with him and that if he made the effort to repent, I'd not want others to have difficulty accepting him back.
Your admission that your friends don't think kindly of her is a reflection of your character NOT hers, because you chose to gossip about your wife, a woman you professed to want to be married to and endured four long years of infidelity...
Like I said, by your own admission in this demand that she accept your friends' bad attitudes and unacceptance and shunning of her to be ok - this damage was caused by you and can only be fixed by you.
Humble yourself before God - recognize you have harmed her and continue to do that harm. Repent!
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H2Y, From a Christian POV, God grant you the serenity to accept the things you cannot change, (OC and OM seeing OC) The wisdom to change the things you can. (Can you accept the things you cannot change, can you accept that your WS has done some work). And the WISDOM to know the difference. If you cannot accept OC, whom, by the way is legally yours because you are NOT divorced, then so be it. Do what you have to do. IMVHO, this OC is yours, legally. What is it that you want? What can you accept? Do you see that your WS loves your children altogether? Don't misunderstand me. I realize that what has gone on with you and lucid is the worst case scenario. Just want you to know my prayers are for you both. If you cannot stand om contact because of OC, maybe you can accept OC as your own, because when you are married you are legally the dad, isn't that the law? My opinion is that om has no rights. You do, as you are married to lucid. Perhaps lucid needs to accept this and no contact with om regardless. You are legally daddy. Can you deal? If there was NC, because M is more important, could you think of reconciling? This child is innocent, regardless of who parent is, legally, you are, so this is just something I am throwing out there. Children don't ask to be born, they have no choice in the matter, and it is up to BOTH of you to make the right choice for this innocent baby. Anyway, prayers for you, and lucid. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Love in Christ, Miss M
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