I think it's been about 10 days or so since my last post. H and I have been to MC (together)a total of 4 times, 2 times by myself, 1 time H by himself. I always think the session went well, I learned from it, and things will get better. But....My MC focuses more on my problems and what I've created than my H who had the A. This might be because MC is using "kid gloves" in order for my H to continue therapy. Monday, MC did tell H that he needed to work on the little things that I've asked for in order for me to cope and have better days, ie. little bit more affection, a phone call during the day, etc.

I just don't see it from my H. Maybe this is "my" reality, but H is not trying enough. I KNOW this takes time, but what once was so natural is extremely hard for him to do now. I told him and MC that during the A, H was much more affectionate and compassionate than after D-Day.

I'm not sure if I mentioned this before, but the morning that I caught H at OW's apartment was also the afternoon that I spoke with her. I begged her to stop contacting my H, or to stop having him contact her. She swore to me that they were not sleeping together and that she was dating someone else. I thought I got "through" to her and maybe I actually did.

Several days after, H said "I have to see her right now! I can't let this end like this." Supposedly, she wasn't home. Now I have indication that sometime recently either they talked on phone or saw each other in person. He continues to deny this (I calmly brought this up once to him.) Why, if she is dating someone else, does he continue to have contact with her and make our M so difficult? This has been going on for two months. I just don't see him getting any "better". I have told him repeatedly that the clock resets to zero everytime he allows contact between the two of them.

How long do I put up with this? I know he is in a "fog" and I know she has not cut the line and won't because she might need him later. How can an intelligent man (who once wholeheartely loved me) not show remorse, compassion, etc.?

I know these questions have been brought up many times before in other posts, but I need them answered for me personally.

Thanks so much,
Willow

dear willow- you are so new into this...be patient. unfortunately all he is doing is normal for ws's. the fact that he is doing counseling is great!!! so many dont, and if mc needs to use kid gloves and deal with your stuff first--then do it. lets face it, thare is always something we can all do to improve ourselves. just keep him in counseling.

as far as how long---do you mean continued contact or the hurt from what happened? if you are referrng to contact i would not put up with it for long--or recovery will never happen. if you mean the pain---the answer is unfortunately a long time.

time and patience will heal you....but it takes a lot of time and patience. hang in there and let us know how its going.

nikko, my dear friend!

After my post this afternoon, I found out that H saw the OW just this Monday. Finding this out after last night, asking H if he talked to OW that day (I RARELY bring up the A or anything to do with it)....his response, "No, was I suppose to?" and my next question "When was the last time you spoke?" Gee, he couldn't remember "the exact date". When it was exactly the day before and, like so often in the past, right before our therapy session. Like that is some kind of confession.....he just lies in therapy and nods his head, and tries to say what is expected of him.

I confronted him this afternoon when I got the news (from OW's H, who got it from his kids!) H had no response, except that he wanted to say hello and check on her.

I told him that I was sick of his @#$^%^$##^%# LIES and that I was not an idiot, that he made a mockery of trying to save the marriage and "Pack your bags [censored]....tonite you are definately leaving and on the way do pick up that hamster that youngest daughter wanted because she needs something to look forward to." He came back couple of hours later with hamster and daughter. I had made wonderful spicy Thai food for MYSELF (had been planning on making it for him the whole day)and then packed his bags for him.

After a few choice words from me, he actually left! Sorry, but I feel empowered by actually making this decision FINAL and with no alternatives. I really think I might have scared the sh*t out of him....well, maybe not. But I am not going to back down. If he wants to come back into this household he will have to promise to adhere to my rules. (Is this my plan A?.....I thought I had already done this, but maybe it was only in my mind and I never set the boundaries for him. Maybe I did, but he never followed them.)

My rules (I can't figure out how to make it fancy and tab, etc.):

1. NO contact with OW FOR WHATEVER REASON [censored]! Is there a problem with this that I'm just not understanding? No contact is NO CONTACT moron.

2. NO LIES...NO LIES...NO LIES...NO LIES...NO LIES...NO LIES...NO LIES...NO LIES...NO LIES...

3. Don't attend therapy unless you are willing to be honest with me and yourself. Don't tell MC what he wants to hear. Don't waste this insurance money on your lies, when I could really use it while being truthful.

4. Be remorseful or don't come back. Again, tell the truth to me, yourself, the MC.

5. BEG for my forgiveness.

There are probably more, but I'm tired and will have to sleep alone tonite. I'm scared, but for now, I am resolved.

nikko and friends, please respond. It's going to be a couple of scary days ahead. Thanks.

willow

dear willow-i hope you got some sleep. how are you today. i hope hanging in.

first off--plan a is about making you the best you, you can be. a by-product of plan a is that we gain strength and confidence back and also we look good to our spouses. its about making changes in and for you.

there is so much more i want to write to you but i have an appt. in a few minutes. i will be back in a few hours. hang in--i'll be back as soon as i can.

Maybe it's Plan B time.

Your conditions were a pretty good plan B letter, except for the DJ's, and the remorse requirement. Though for many WS's, remorse is immediate upon the affair being revealed, for many more, remorse comes later, after the M is restored. For others, it never comes at all. In any case, Demanding your H feel something he may not feel is just giving him another reason to be dishonest, and tell you he is to placate you. So, I would re-write it like this:

I am still willing to work on our mariage, but contunually having my hopes dashed is just to painful for me to stand. I will not be able to work on the marriage until the following conditins are met. I am sorry, but I cannot go on the way things are.

1. NO contact with OW FOR WHATEVER REASON! Is there a problem with this that I'm just not understanding? No contact is NO CONTACT.

2. NO LIES...NO LIES...NO LIES...NO LIES...NO LIES...NO LIES...NO LIES...NO LIES...NO LIES...

3. Don't attend therapy unless you are willing to be honest with me and yourself. Don't tell MC what he wants to hear. Don't waste this insurance money on lies.

I guess you will also have to make some arrangements about visitation.

However, Plan B is designed to follow Plan A. If you haven't done a good Pan A, you haven't earned the right to use Plan B, IMO. Click on the link in my signature line for more info.

<small>[ May 01, 2003, 09:55 AM: Message edited by: johnh39 ]</small>

dear willow- worrying about you again. please update if you can.

Dear nicco and john,

I'm doing fine today, or at least much better. I should be contacted today regarding a job possibility and interview and that is keeping me more upbeat. Don't worry, with today's job market the way it is, I'm used to rejection and I won't go off the deep end if the job falls through.

Last night my H had to come home from work because he was selling a lawn mower. That went well for him and we had a conversation. I asked if he was willing to discuss what was going on with us and what needed to be said and done in order for him to come back. He said he wasn't ready for either the conversation or to come back and I told him that was perfectly fine with me. I really don't think that he is with the OW at this time, because she is spending every nite at her OTHER boyfriends house. H came home about 10:30pm and slept on the sofa(that's what he said, I was asleep). This morning I asked where he was until then and he asked why I should know. I told him that if he needed to come home to sleep and shower that I had a right to know where he was. He said he went to see the sunset and had a couple of drinks at a bar on the beach. Dont' ask me why, but I believe him.

I woke him up this morning so he wouldn't be late for work and because I had reset the alarm clock. We haven't spoken since, though I did try to call him on his cellphone because I had a question regarding kids summer camp and payment.

I'll write soon but now I have to pick up my youngest daughter at school (half a day today). I would like to tell you what my children said last night and what H told our mutual friend last night.

Don't worry (but thanks!) today is better.

willow