Well everyone…it has been just a few days over a month since my wife came home and we started officially our recovery. While in some cases, it has gone as I had anticipated, there have been some surprises.

The first 2-3 weeks were marked with tentative acceptance and wariness. As a matter of fact, I seemed to be more tentative than she was. Several times I Lbed, bringing the affair up or something like that. It was my wife that has calmed things down on those occasions. So much so, that there has actually been some jokes by her in the last few days about the OM (more on this below). I have a lot of questions about what happened, but I find now that there is no need to push. They will get answered. I find that there is just so much either of us can take in brining up the past or working through the hard stuff in one sitting. So we both now are very keenly aware when we reach that limit. And both of us stop the conversation, and continue it at another time. This is probably the biggest reason that there has not been one argument or fight in the last 2 ½ weeks. It also is probably the reason that my wife has begun to be very affectionate over the last few weeks. She is also opening up about what happened…and looking at it for the first time in the light of reality…instead of the fog.

We were out yesterday because my wife has a couple of medical issues (female stuff!) she needed looking into. I took off work and took her to the doctors. We spent the day there, and at the mall. During that time, we had more discussions. But I never bring up OM anymore. She does. And when she does now, it is usually to trash him. She will tell me how he used to get so mad because she was in contact with me. "Why do you have to talk to him?" he would ask. She said that she now sees it wasn't the kids…that she just constantly missed me. And the OM just couldn't fill in for me. She would infuriate him by showing the latest flowers I sent her. "Why are those there? Why didn't you throw them away?" She would tell him "Because I like them." I was always a constant irritation in their relationship.

He was constantly asking why she hadn't pursued the divorce yet. Guys and gals out there that are going through this…do not lose sight that even though they might tell you it is over and be moving in that direction, don't lose sight of the fact that you may not know EXACTLY what is going on. That every effort (positive) you make and every memory will weigh on their relationship. It is no wonder only 5% of those relationships last.

My wife went on to say that at the time, she "deserved" the OM. Not because she was entitled. But because she was being so selfish…and so was he. She now sees him for the selfish [censored] he was and is. You see, the OM had this same exact thing happen to him three years ago with his wife. My wife said she JUST NOW realized that. She just now realized that he knew better. That he had been in my shoes, and still pursued her.

She told me that during my Plan A period, she didn't want to believe the changes. She admitted that the reconciliations last year were false…that she wasn't serious and was still fighting coming home. But she said that the more she saw the changes, the more she wanted to be around me, while still trying to push me away. Can you imagine how uncomfortable it would be to be in that position? And the OM, who had this happen to him, knew what she was going through. And he was desperately trying to pull her away, to keep that wedge between us.

She went on to say that the OM, whose wife cheated on him, came home to try to work on things, but eventually left and married the OM, could not understand that my wife believes that we will make it. That where he failed in his marriage, we will succeed in ours. She says she now feels very optimistic about our future. She constantly asks why I wasn't this way before…why I pulled away from her before the affair and made her so lonely that she pursued this. I told her that I could give her reasons, but in the end, it doesn't really matter. That Mortarman is dead and gone. She says she can see that. That she is falling in love with me all over again.

Now that I can see that love in her eyes again, I rarely think of the OM. There have been some triggers now and then. And my wife will see my sudden change in mood and immediately start asking "What's wrong? Are you okay?" I tell her now that I am, that I just need a minute. And she just leaves me alone to sort through whatever it is that I am sorting through. And when I come back in the room, she tries to make sure that she shows a little affection to help me get past whatever it is.

She has even come to start joking about the OM. So, I have said a few myself about him, and about the woman that I met back in January (look at my previous posts about hershe was going thru the same things as me…we became real good friends…but became too close and Asylyne and others got me to back off before I moved to far). Of course, at first, when I talked about her, my wife would get tense. And she still refers to her as "North Carolina Trailer Trash." Even though she is the opposite of what you would think is trailer trash. Through all of this, I have found out a few things about my efforts to save my marriage.
</font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Plan A worked, even though I didn't think it was. Most of the changes I made and the things I did (flowers, shoveling out snow from her walk and driveway, fixing her car, taking care of her when she was sick, etc) had effects that I never knew. That never showed until the end. I Plan Aed and freaked out all the time because I never saw anything going on with her in reaction to my improvements. But, whether you see these or not...they are happening!</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As the Harleys state…the affair must run its course. Nothing I could have done to shorten it…but I did a lot of things (LBs) to lengthen it.</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The WS KNOWS all the time what the reality of the BS, and the OP, are. They just refuse to believe it. They WANT a different reality. That is why they live in a state of tension all the time. They don't show it to the BS. But many times they show it to the OP. My wife's OM was constantly mad because she would want to talk about me. Anything a BS does that will allow the WS to perpetuate their fantasy life and fog-views, will help the WS stay in their make believe world a little longer.</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Plan B works! I was scared of it. I thought it meant that our marriage was over, that I was giving up. But what I have seen (and now my wife admits) is that if you have a good Plan A (and remember what I said above…you may have to TRUST that it is good because you may not get much feedback), then it will probably have to be followed with a Plan B. Why? Because the WS is a reality avoider. They see the changes. They know the reality with you. They know the reality of the OP. But they will continue to perpetuate their cake eating fantasy as long as they are allowed to do so. At some point, they have to be put in a crisis (as Dobson puts it). My wife said recently, when I pulled away from her and finally went to a true Plan B, that it put her in the position of having her choice taken away from her. That she woke up one morning, missing talking to me, and knowing that her bed had been made and I was going to let her sleep in it. And when she looked around, in her first glimpse out of the fog, she did not like what she saw.</font></li>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The sex issue is still a big one for me. As I stated in a previous thread, there are some things she enjoys that I have a huge problem doing right now. We have started SF, and it has been enjoyable for both. But I still have problems with her doing anything for me exclusively in that area (I am trying not to be graphic here!). Some say that it will just take time to work through that. I hope so. But I do know that it hurts my wife when I tell her I can't do that…it was a big part of our relationship (and her and OM's…which is why I cant!). I don't like seeing her hurt. And I do want our sex life back to what it was. But it is a HUGE trigger for me...and needless to say my reaction ruins the mood.
Our kids are so happy. I have seen the changes in them, especially over the last couple of weeks. My oldest though, is always asking when my wife isnt home "Where's Mom?" I would tell him where she was at (staying at a girlfriends house to study for her finals…she graduates from nursing school in a week) and he would ask "Why?" He really looks out for his mom, and does not want to see her screw up again.

The only problem lately has been my wife's insistence to going to her nurse pinning ceremony alone. Actually, she is taking a girlfriend. I asked why she didn't want her family there…mainly me. She said that many of the nurses, and teachers, were there during our separation, and during her affair. So, she had said a lot of bad things about me. She said she would feel awkward about me being there, with her feeling like she would have to explain to these people why she was back with such an evil man. I asked her who she said she was originally going to go with. She said she was supposed to go with the OM, until she decided to come home. I am not pleased with this. She was comfortable with possibly taking the OM to this during her affair. But she isnt comfortable taking me now that she is home. I understand her issues, and that the ceremony is about the pinning and she shouldn't have to deal with all of this there. That we will all be at her graduation the following week. But I feel left out, and have told her so. That I WANT to be there, to see her pinned. But it appears that it would just be too awkward for her…and she wont see these people again after that ceremony.

So there it is for now. The road is rough…but I am not finding it as rough as I had expected it to be. We have a lot to deal with, and with my wife graduating in 12 days, we will be able to move on with our lives and hopefully put all this in our past. Actually, I woke up yesterday to my wife laying curled up next to me and for a moment, I felt like it had all been a bad dream. That she has been showing me the old Mrs. Mortarman, the one in love with me. It has been hard to trust that But each day she does that, I believe a little bit more.

I will keep posting because I want to continue to stay in touch with all of you that helped me so much. And hopefully, my story will help some of you believe in the plan and that odds are, you will be where we are at.

In His arms.

MM-

Nicely done!

I just want to say that you are really showing us how to do it right.

I think that you SHOULD try to go to that ceremony. Your wife doesn't realize how much she will long for you during ceremony. Who cares what people think? It's her day and YOUR day. You both struggled to get there...She needs you there and is compromising a positive moment for what people will think?

I think you should trust your heart and ask GOD for a little help.

Congrats...

Mortarman,

Thanks for the encouraging words.

Watch for relapse and just swing back into PlanA.

-AD

<small>[ May 14, 2003, 04:49 PM: Message edited by: AD ]</small>

Kily, I wish I could get her to agree to let me attend. But she is pretty adament about not being put into that kind of awkward situation at this ceremony it is not a battle I am likely to win.

AD, I know I am ready for the days when things wont go so well. So far so good though. Just keep working at it If you two were laughing together, that is a good sign.

In His arms.

MM- Oh I am so happy for you. I have followed your story, and you really give me hope. I am
in Plan B and I am hoping it works. Thank you, please continue to post so I can follow.

Oh God, Mortarman, IT REALLY CAN WORK!!??
Just when I think, how can this really being going anywhere but D? And then you post again...
THanks so much for keeping me going and Keep up the great work on your M. I wish you all the best!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The only problem lately has been my wife's insistence to going to her nurse pinning ceremony alone. Actually, she is taking a girlfriend. I asked why she didn't want her family there…mainly me. She said that many of the nurses, and teachers, were there during our separation, and during her affair. So, she had said a lot of bad things about me. She said she would feel awkward about me being there, with her feeling like she would have to explain to these people why she was back with such an evil man. I asked her who she said she was originally going to go with. She said she was supposed to go with the OM, until she decided to come home. I am not pleased with this. She was comfortable with possibly taking the OM to this during her affair. But she isnt comfortable taking me now that she is home. I understand her issues, and that the ceremony is about the pinning and she shouldn't have to deal with all of this there. That we will all be at her graduation the following week. But I feel left out, and have told her so. That I WANT to be there, to see her pinned. But it appears that it would just be too awkward for her…and she wont see these people again after that ceremony. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">MM,

I am sorry but, this doesn't make sense to me. I see red flags popping up all over the place. Everything you have written up to this point seems to be on track with the relationship progressing nicely. However, this could be something where you might want to test her honesty.

I suggest a little snooping. Why? I don't need to tell you the answer to why, you already know. I will say I do not believe these are the actions of someone who is in love. (no explanation should be needed here, we know in love people could care less what other people think about their man/woman.)



</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The sex issue is still a big one for me. As I stated in a previous thread, there are some things she enjoys that I have a huge problem doing right now. We have started SF, and it has been enjoyable for both. But I still have problems with her doing anything for me exclusively in that area (I am trying not to be graphic here!). Some say that it will just take time to work through that. I hope so. But I do know that it hurts my wife when I tell her I can't do that…it was a big part of our relationship (and her and OM's…which is why I cant!).</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Stop giving the OM power over you! That is exactly what you are doing MM. Your wife will likely take this as rejection making you both miserable.

One other thing I want to say about this, well it can relate to this aspect as well as others, is:

You are not the same MM you were before. Well, she is not the same Mrs. MM she was either. She has grown in ways you might not understand, the same as you. You may not like some of the changes ie; sex. But the same could apply to her, in other aspects of your life. She appears to be coping tho.

I say again, stop giving the OM power over you.

jd

PS. advice given with the best of intentions. disregard any or all that may be out of line.

<small>[ May 01, 2003, 12:56 PM: Message edited by: jdmac1 ]</small>

Glad to hear things are moving in a positive direction for you two.

You are not alone in the SF department. My H and I are still dealing with the same issues. My H isn&#8217;t comfortable with doing some things that we used to do before the A. I totally understand and am trying my best to be patient and hope that maybe after some time we can get that back.

Right now I am just content with improving all the other things about our marriage.

Good Luck!

**Try to go to the pinning.....

---
I'm the FWW

Mortarman,
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. You are an inspiration to all of us out here who haven't made it to your point yet. Please keep us updated and let us know the good, bad and ugly. Congratulations on a true recovery, I wish you the best of luck. God Bless.

Hi MM,

I have not posted to you before, but I want to thank you for giving me so much hope, with your post. Especially the "synthesis" of how plan a was working, even when it did not provoke measurable/perceptible changes in WW, and that often a plan b will be required to put the WS into crisis, and get them to choose.

WIthout having thought it out quite that way, that's what I am doing now, except WH has had NC with OW, and yet has been in a deep/thick fog for over 6 months. I have been doing a darn good plan A, without any real results! SO, last week I asked him (very nicely) to leave and sort out what he wants in his life. I said I love him and am sure of what I want in my life, but that I cannot live in limbo forever, as it hurts me, and takes away so much precious energy that I need for kids, work, etc.

I plan to keep plan A'ing even while he's gone, but not sure really how to do all this. SHould I instead switch to an intense plan B? H needs still, I think, to see that the changes in me are permanent, that's why I hesistate to do a plan B...I want him to keep seeing the real ME.

Anyhow, your post helped so much, and I see you going down in the annals of MB history like lostva, who's posts I printed out and read to cheer me up, and give me hope.

You and your W deserve all the happines that is coming your way.

About the SF thing, I hear your pain, really I do. It's too bad that you have all that "information" about WW's A... I came close to demanding such info, but managed to stop myself, knowing it would be too painful. I try to make SF with H *ours* by creating our own moves/rituals that I particularly like. It helps me to take the lead, believe that whatever I am going to do, H will like (he usually does! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> , and just go for it. Think of reclaiming your SF by re-inventing it, with your W.

Thanks again for your post.

MM-
Question came up in Malcswife Thread: Do letters that talk about memories, plans for the future, children growing up, missed memories, etc., do they help or hurt during Plan A.
Has Mrs. MM mentioned much about that. I know she held onto flowers that you mentioned.
What do you think?
See we already look up to you oh wise one!
Thanks.

Laurie2: Thanks for the post We will be praying for you and your M. Plan B is tough. But ride it out. you will see where you are supposed to be in the end.

jdmac1: As always, you keep me grounded. I of course understand the possibilities that are there with the pinning ceremony. Is she allowing the OM to come, since she had originally invited him months ago? She says no, that they are through and not talking. Could she be lying? Sure. Point well taken on checking on things. As Ronald reagan said..."trust, but verify." On the SF issue, you are right about OM having influence over this area. Remember, I SAW them together, over and over! I didnt just learn about it. So, I have those times they were together and the things they said running through my mind. Not very conducive to getting in the mood. On most things in the SF area, it has not affected me that much. And we enjoy ourselves. And I do not picture that. But in certain areas, ones where she learned to do things when she met me, ones where they have been a very special area of our relationship, to SEE her doing and saying the things she learned with me has caused those particular acts to not only not have a positive meaning for me, but immediately illicit a trigger...a HUGE trigger in me. If she tries, I almost come out of my skin in panic trying to stop her. So, I am not sure where to go with this, short of a lobotomy where I can have those memories removed. my counselor early on warned me not to watch them together. I did not listen...and am now paying for it. So is she.

Livingwithhope: Thanks for the encouragement. Most of our SF is very enjoyable, with little in the way of problems. But in this one area, it is very important for her. She likes to "give." Without it, she is not happy. So, it is something that will have to be fixed, or will cause problems for us. Hopefully, we will move past this.

TM94: You are close my man! You are not too far behind me. I will post shortly on your thread. But I think if you handle yourself well over the next little while, you will be the next success story on the MB wall.

Eleanor: Good to hear from you. It is good you are setting the boundaries now. His comfort level is now going down, and he will begin to see the things that he might lose. How did he take your asking him to leave? Take this slowly. I wouldnt advise a pure Plan B yet. Let's see how he handles this request, and you pulling back some. that will tell you whether or not to go to Plan B or stay in Plan awhile longer.

learning: Absolutely!! A big reason I sent flowers, wrote letters to her, did things for her, showed up with the kids sometimes, was to keep forming a wedge between her and OM. you cannot do that overtly. In my letters, I would remind her of past things we did together or as a family. I would talk about the future, both on things if we were together, and what it would be like if we werent. Doing these things were like intrusions of reality into fantasyland. She used to tell the OM that she hated my letters (but she read them anyway). Why? Because it would make her uncomfortable. She didnt want to remember the good times. My wife said this week that over the affair, she had remembered nothing but the bad stuff over our relationship. She said to me "I know I was happy with you. I remember now." One thing I did that kept this going (and PISSED off the OM <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> , was I put together this huge picture frame that had over 30 pictures of us and of the kids in it. I gave it to her and she put it on the wall in her apartment. Everytime the OM came over, he had to see my smiling face (a huge LB to him from my wife). And she would constantly be seeing those pictures and they would haunt her...especially right after the OM left. It was a window back to reality.

Dont underestimate psychological operations. Too often, we try to get to them through conversation, through demands, through threats. It doesnt work. They have to figure it out on their own. but we dont have to leave them in fantasyland alone either. when my wife would come over to see the kids, I had spent hours before that making sure I had little things set out or observable that would work on her. Pictures of her and the kids together on the walls. Pictures of her and I. School things of the kids all over the place, to help her miss the days when she was home taking care of them. Books on relationships (like SAA) lying on the coffeetable.

You see...even a book on a coffeetable sends a message. And even if they dont acknowledge it, each thing eats at them. Over time, it is those things that slowly bring them out of the fog. This is so important and is why everyone should have a plan. I still am doing psychological operations right now. I am trying to seal the deal. Even in a healthy marriage, we should be trying to "date" our spouses. When we dated them, we tried to put our best foot forward. Then we got married, and then we didnt care if they saw us unshaven and hair a mess. what message does that send? We have to constantly send the right psychological messages so that positive ones build up.

I hope that helped. Let me know what your husband's reaction was.

In His arms.

Mortarman
My friend .. I am so glad to see that things are going well for you and that mrs.MM is by your side..You have been a great inspiration to me . since everything seems to be a mirror for us..
Mrs.MM is looking at moving out with the girls into an apartment..I only hope that mY story turns out like yours in the end..
Go to the pinning, if she really loves you.. it doesn't matter what other people think.
Take care!and i wish you continued success with your marriage
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Cheers!!

MM,

I read your answer to learnin about doing the constant reminder-type things with H, like letters, pictures etc. I am going to do that too. I think it might be easier to do while he has moved out...I have started to find it very difficult to keep a good plan A going while he has been home, but so on-the-fence about our M.

He took the request to leave pretty well. he doesn't want to go, but understands why I need him to leave at this point. He has found a place to stay nearby and will likely go there in the next few days.

My gut tells me to: keep up a good plan A (which I think I will find bit easier now, strangely), especially the part of Plan A that is about ME. I need to be making myself feel lighter and happier, and I think that can only have positive repercussions all around. I have not, and will not ask him to agree to not see anyone while we are apart. This sounds strange, but it seems that would be foolish in my case. The guy cheated on me twice while living here and being married...why would he respect my wishes now? Besides, if he "has to" do that stuff, so be it...this whole thing will play itself out once and for all faster...who knows?

He needs a reality check. He needs to miss the nice life, nice kids and friends we have...while still only seeing my best side. I need his "cloud" out of my airspace for a bit. I need some SUN!

I guess I will save a pure plan B for later, if I need to.

Well, don't know if my plan sounds sane or not...but it's all I've got left.

Thanks for leading the way for me, and others I am sure.

Bumping for ALS

Mortarman-

I am glad to hear you are progressing so nicely. My W and I are 1.5 months into recovery and it seems like you are sooooooo far ahead of us. How do you do it? I am haunted by nightmares and thoughts of OM. I have so many questions about the A but have learned not to ask. My W answers them as best she can but I don't think the answers help me at all. I would love any advice you can give me since we seem to be in the same place.

Thanks Mortarman and happy recovery!

MM,

I've been keeping up with your story, though I've never posted. It's good to see things working out the way they are for you. I do however have to agree with jdmac about the red flags and the pinning ceremony. Remember the POJA? Sounds like you've got your head on though "trust but verify". I wouldn't worry about verifying being a LB either. My W has mentioned that she finds it flattering because it shows I care about our M. Just for the record, she verifys with me also. Good for the goose and all. Also, one more thing to keep a heads up on. This happened to me to an extreme. The triggers. Almost everything was a trigger. Sounds like your dealing with it well, but it can become overwhelming. In my case it became so extreme that 3 mos into recovery I almost filed for D anyway, even though W's behaviour had been immpeccable. Why? My coach described as something similar to PTSD. You work so long to keep upbeat around the WS and not LB it kind of builds up, then when things begin to get "normal" again it starts to seep in. Not saying it WILL happen, just keep aware it may. Sounds like you've got a good grip on things, congratulations to you and the lovely Mrs. MM <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . Just remember to keep it in his arms and you'll be fine.

MTD

<small>[ May 02, 2003, 12:53 PM: Message edited by: madly_truly_deeply ]</small>

Mortarman,

Just wanted to say congrats and thanks for being so open and honest regarding your thoughts on Plan A, Plan B, and recovery.

I've moved onto Plan B as of this week, and like many, don't have a lot of faith in it working, but also realize it's necessary and my best chance to save my M at this point in time.

I agree with what others have said here about the pinning ceremony. I hope you will let your W know how important it is for you to be there. I remember one thing my W said in the last conversation we had a couple months ago: I asked her how her friends would deal with it if she chose to come home to me to work on the marriage. She gave the right answer: It was, that they are her friends, and if that's what makes her happy, then they would understand that. I think the same applies to your W. She may have told her friends total lies about you, and I'm sure she's ashamed if she did that, but overall, if they are her friends, they will understand that she loves you and came back to you because it was the right thing, and what she wanted.

Anyway, please keep us informed. I will be watching for sure, as my Plan B continues. I am hopeful that my W might use this time to reconsider, though I didn't have the luxury of sending so many gifts and such to W as you did, since she has been out of the house for the entire Plan A as well. It is a tough situation, but it's what the next logical step was. And like you said, Plan B is necessary after a good Plan A, which I do believe that I was able to conduct.

Congrats again and I'm looking forward to more good news from you.

ALS

MM and Mrs. MM,

Congratulations, on your recovery so far. Both of you keep up the good work.

God bless,

JL

Hi MM,

Congrats on the recovery, I hope things keep going this well.

Good luck to Mrs MM on her final exam. When is her graduation day? And good luck to her on NCLEX.