Last week I'm so proud of myself, don't call WH since I called on our ANNIV.
He finally calls me on day 5. AT work, bogus reasons, do I have any mail, I have strep throat, blah, blah.
I really want to ask for $$ but I'm at work and don't want to get into it.
Finally, 3 days later, yesterday, I call on his cell. He's just getting out of breakfast,I figure with OW, since it's probably her kid-free weekend(I try to keep track, can often tell by his behaviour)
I ask for money, kept it short & sweet, he tells me he can get me some(not much) on monday. He asks if S had a baseball game on fri. I said it was rained out, he has one today. He says, tell him good luck.
Fine, I hangup, but for some reason, I'm steaming. Prob. angry that I have to ask for $$, he never asks, are you & kids, Ok, need anything?
I'm broke and he's out to breakfast!! And now he wants me to relay message to S, hasn't communicated with them in over a week!!
I call him back, they are driving around! I can hear her yapping in the background, must be others in the car.
I say, would you like me to coach you on how to be an absentee Father? No thanks, he says. I lit in to him, that he doesnt' bother to call his kids, even after his call to me on Wed, I had told him that D had Dr.'s appt. that day. He never even called to see how she was. But he had to make sure I knew he was sick!! How would his date feel If her H didn't see or call his kids for over a week?
So he talks briefly to S and then to D.
I take the phone back, he says he doesn't need a verbal lashing,I ask him what does he need & tell him that he's got nothing better to do than sit on his [censored] and wait for his next H@#%d ON! Click, he hangs up of course.
Later, our 18 yr old S calls, has a bad sore throat, do I have anything for it(he's broke too, laid off too, treats me like crap,chip off the old block?) Anyways, I figure he's probably got Dad's strep, they were together last week and S has had WH's car all week. I worry, because S has no health insurance and I have no $$ to help him.
So I call WH to let him know, see if he can help him out. NO answer, on cell, at home. I get pissed. He's avoiding me now. But what if there was a real emergency. I leave a message.
He returns call at 2AM! Just getting in. I tell him I'll call tomorrow.
I call this morning and we have it out, I can't help it, sometimes it just builds up and I blow!
I tell him to grow up, get his [censored] home, his kids need him, etc.
He says, yeah, put the muffins in the oven and I'll be right home!
A dig at my homemaking, now I'm the wicked, evil, muffin making wife!! Have to laugh, that's the worst he can up with ? And I did have muffins in the oven at D's request!
Sorry, didn't realize you wanted a bar hoppin, pool playing, cheatin, tramp for a partner all these years!
We build a beautiful home in the country so we can garden, etc. enjoy the quiet and he decides he likes the walk on the wild side, city slicker life, bar hoppin life instead!!
I tell him that S has another game today, but don't worry, there will be plenty of Dad's in the stands to cheer him on and give him cool nicknames!
I HAVE NO CAR! he yells. Oh please, you just have an excuse this time. But you are misssing the point, you should be here ANYWAYS!
He gets real condascending and quiet, saying things like are you OK, are you having a breakdown, do you want me to call for help, you sound pretty emotional.
I say, yeah, I'm emotional, I think I'm entitled to a bad day once in awhile. You reach a breakdown point and bail on your family, I don't have that option so yeah once in a while I get overwhelmed with what you've left me with and I'm going to lash out.
Anyways I'm disappointed in myself, I was doing so good. Had sent out a nice letter, that he hasn't recieved yet and was waiting on that and now I've gone and LB'd like this.
I did call later and apologized for lashing out like I did(uggh, killed me to do it)and he says, pretty pissy, "you're forgiven".
I'M Forgiven, that's a hoot!
So now it's back on the Plan A wagon and just take it from here?
I don't see any hope for this.
All I think about is, this is NOT the man I know & love, who is this jerk?

<small>[ July 22, 2003, 08:33 AM: Message edited by: learnin ]</small>

Wh just called me at work. What do I need for money? Can I wait till he gets his unemployment check on wed. or will me and the "children" starve. Very angry, sarcastic.
"Children" is his new term, he always said "kids", I suppose OW must refer to hers as "children". It sounds so strange on him.
He said he will be calling the "children" every night to check on them.
Big of him, it only took a 2x4 over the head to get him to pay some attention!!
He said he hates me, never coming back, He asked me for a D a month ago and I said no, so what do I want from him?
I said, first of all if you want to talk like an adult I'll llisten, 2nd, I'm at work, call me at home from now on!
How can this man be so angry. He twists everything that I say, I'm so tired of this game...

I'm tempted to go home on my lunch break and call him back.
But I know that I am just looking for a way to lash out and LB big time.
someone talk me out of it?
Maybe stay here and walk the track, clear my head, calm down...
I can't let him get to me like this...
I consider Plan B...but will I be giving him just what he wants...He wants OUT!

you cant stop him from leaving. It seems like he has already left. Let him go if he wants. It doesn't mean that you are giving up on theM. The only thing you are giving up will be the hell that you put yourself through when you speak to him.

You are angry and that is perfectly fine an natural but going off on him doesn't help you or him. You feel better at first and the worse later and then you feel the need to apologize to him, giving him another chance to get under your skin.

Your life is going to go on with or without him so get a head start and start living a little for you. How he feels towards you is not a reflection on you it is just his skewed perception. Don't buy into it. Don't call him. Living well is the best revenge.

God Bless

no going home...to call
no going home...to call
no going home...to call...

get as busy into your work as you can...
let go of the thoughts that surface about him...

vent here...write it down....
weather this as much as you can...take a look at your lovebank...see how much more you can tolerate...

Is he coming home this weekend ...perhaps you need to make sure that you spend time out the house this time....

what are your's and his plans for this weekend and the kids...

time for him to get a hotel...or commute to see them...?

find a plan and focus on it...

learnin ...you have done so well...the unfairness is overwhelming....be good to you...cry it out..then regroup...
you are very brave...
keep working on you...keep seeing how much you can and do accomplish...and keep going...and in the end...you may just leave this man in the dust...no job no car watchin the soaps kid abandoning man that he is acting like...baby with strep throat...waah waah waah....

think about sending him some muffins... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
ARK

No plans for visitation, I don't want them down there (seeing OW!) and we have nothing set up on a regular schedule.
This weekend is Mother's Day, I don't want him around. S has Baseball sunday anyways.
WH still without car, he lent it to our oldest S.
I don't want him to show up here with OW!
He's really lashing out at me, always does when I get fed up with his crap, always trys to turn it around on me, I'm the bad guy!
Ok, I won't call
I won't call
I won't call....

learning, when i would get tires of being patient and understanding i would do the same thing,call him cry, get angry, i just couldnt handle it!! and he would always turn it on me, he would actually say, why do you always do this? and he would call me crazy!! me crazy? whos the idiot chasing after the town tramp?whose the dork who would rather sleep out side in his car in the cold than give up ow? and whose the one to blind to see if she really loved him she would tell him to come in out of the cold? yea, im crazy!! and when i got tired of having no money, tired of my kids being hungry everynight, i did it again, called him to tell him, why am i here alone you chose to have these kids too you promised you would b here to take care of them, were here suffering with nothing,and your over there alone! he said i dont want to here this! if you keep telling me this im going to hang up! i said ok shall i tell you what you want to here? were doing good the kids dont need you any more, there happy your not here? he said dont b stupid! then he said he was mad at me for what i said? he said for doing this! i said i dont care if your mad! im not doing anything but telling you how bad your kids are suffering! so i know exactly how you feel!! i finally just decided im going to keep my mouth shut cause he dont hear anyway, and im not going to give him that kind of power over me anymore!! im not goig to give him any excuse to b bad to me, so i try to b as nice as possible,because i know it only gives him more guilt!! i hold alot in, one thing i did was i found a present ow had given him, i was going to just throw it away but holding it in my hand just made me so mad! i threw it down and stomped on it until it was flat! then i picked it up and threw it some more! it helped alot! i wonder what ill say if he ever asks for it? dont give him anypower over you dont let him turn you into someone you dont like? my mom told me that.
godbless

I'm weak, I admit it.
I CALLED.
But it's ok.
We both agreed to be calm and not piss each other off. He admits that when I call and say things like I did on Sat. that he says things to me that he doesn't really mean. I explained that I DO get angry & overwhelmed somedays and it's hard for me not to want to lash out.
We talked money a bit.
He also said, "I don't know why you would want me back anyways"?
I replied, "I would rather be in love with the father of my children than anyone else in the world"
I told him that it took me the last 2 yrs. to get on even ground after the 1st A(3 weeks long while he was on out of state job for 4 weeks), did you make me go through all that knowing you wanted to leave me?
WH- No, I didn't.(sounded quiet, sincere, not defensive)
I said that A's happen in a lot of M's, it's how we decide to correct the problems of the M that matter.
I can't remember what else we said, it wasn't that long a conversation.
I ended with, I'm not giving up on you, I love, you.
WH- I know.

Ok, so I'm not going to read too much into this, we've been here before, but not for awhile.

2 letters are in the mail, may have recieved 1st one today, (thus the call?)
Next move? Suggestions?

WH left message for me to call after work. I called him.I could tell he had "issues" to discuss.
WH wants to know why OW's 8 yr.old D asked him why His W calls her Daddy angry and why she is seeing a psychiatrist?
WHAT?
He accused me of talking to OW's H over the weekend, which I have not done since March,(he has called me several times as well looking for info., but no contact since March) and why should WH care if I did.
Bottom line is I have no control over what garbage or info OWH feeds his kids! WH all concerned about OW's D being involved. So much concern & protection for someone elses kids!!
My question to him was, so now that you must be spending "family" time with OW's kids, where you honest with the D and tell her that my BS is upset and sad that your mommy helped break up my marriage!
He is upset that "so many" people are involved in our "situation"!
I told him that I'm upset that another woman is involved in our M!!
He's upset because I have a support network of friends and he doesn't like that some of these friends were "Our" friends. TOO BAD!
He's upset because he thinks I call these friends and put them in awkward position. Aside from his roomate who I have called several times, these "friends" call me to support me. And I'm supposed to feel bad about that!
When he told me 4 mos. ago that he was leaving me for OW, I didn't know that it was a secret. I reached out in my darkest hour and found support and comfort. ANd now I'm supposed to feel bad about that?
Now he's being MR. "Let's be Civil".
Yeah, let you just trash our lives and expect nothing but Sainthood from me, is more like it.
Plan A without a hitch, has it ever been done. Because I feel like such a failure at it right now.
I was pretty upset on the phone, crying. Our finances are so crapped out, he's talking bankruptcy. Our vehicle leases are due, way over in mileage, I want to buy out mine and trade in for a decent vehicle before our credit is totally trashed. He tells me just buy something and let them repo the leased vehicle, because we're going down anyways!
I'm crying, tell him it's not just the bankruptcy, I don't care what else I lose, I just don't want to lose him. The kids don't want to lose him. That this is all getting too crazy.
He said he will call me later when he gets home, he'll be out for awhile.
Can this get any worse? Can my life get any worse?

Bump

I know that I am often letting my emotions take over and run my life.
I need to step back from it, gain contol again and not allow myself to be triggered into calling, or lashing out at him, he doesn't hear it anyways. He doesn't see or want to admit to the pain he is causing me, the kids and even himself.
I spent a horribly emotional night last night, 4 yr.old D wet my bed again(I believe these episodes are her response to all of this and Dr. agrees) so I was awake the rest of the night,crying, hating the nightmare that my life has become.
I'm tired and cranky at work this morning. Have decisions to make regarding vehicle lease expireing and whether to buy another, will have to involve WH and just nothing is going right.
I am letting him turn this around on me so that I begin to feel like I am the bad guy here. I begin to think that kids reactions are "all" because of my emotional state. Forgetting that there is a "reason" I am in that state and that it is not of my making.
I do need to regain control. I do have the responsibility of the welfare of my children and there is no way around that. I need to somehow find a way out of the madness and desperation of our situation(financially as well)His layoff has just complicated this whole mess and brought us to the brink of bankruptcy.
If I need to purchase another vehicle now to relieve the stress from thinking about it and before our credit is totally trashed, then I should just do it. I can't depend on WH to make a rationale decision right now.
I'm trying to give myself a pep talk right now. Not sure if it's working, but I'll keep trying till it takes!!

WH called today at work to see if I needed money, couldn't talk, Fire Drill!

He called tonight, after S's Baseball game! Had a decent conversation, calm. He said he got my letters. And? He said "most of it was nice".
I replied, yeah, I'm sorry I started to get a bit sarcastic near the end of the 2nd letter, I'll try not to do that"

Conversation continued, covering S's Baseball, finances, employment outlook, my search for a new vehicle.

Stayed away from R talk. It kills me though!!

I sent a packet of his mail out to him today, bills, etc. I enclosed(and I know I was advised in another thread not too!)some printouts that were posted about Divorce Studies, Importance of Dad type stuff, etc. Couldn't help myself.

I'm way too anxious for results and have to learn to not expect anything...not read too much into anything, tone of voice, conversations, etc.

I just miss him sooo much, and when we get angry with each other it hurts sooo much...

I'm gonna hang in there though, I'm not ready to give up on the guy I love so much...I hope the Fog clears someday and I see the man I once knew!

Originally posted by learnin:
.....I'm way too anxious for results and have to learn to not expect anything...not read too much into anything, tone of voice, conversations, etc.

Orchid: Totally understandable feelings but not healthy for you to continue this way.

I just miss him sooo much, and when we get angry with each other it hurts sooo much...

Orchid: Yes and your feelings like this are normal but you are not dealing with a normal type of reaction on his part.

I'm gonna hang in there though, I'm not ready to give up on the guy I love so much...I hope the Fog clears someday and I see the man I once knew!

Orchid: You don't have to give up on your H, you could give up on the WS. How? Acknowledge when he acts like the H and do not give into the tantrum actions of the WS. This technique takes time to learn but you will. You are doing good and need to know that you have your priorities right but need to get off that rollercoaster and hanging on his every word and action.

Do you have a support group around you? It can even consist of your children, the dog, a neighbor, the Dr Phil show, MB, baby sitter, teacher, etc.

Have you read the book Love must be Tough by Dr James Dobson?


L.

I'm sorry, just caught onto this thread, so don't know the whole story.

Is Plan B an option now? Do you have a time that you will go to Plan B? It seems like you are in a modified one right now. Ending contact with him and not being tempted to rail him when events arise (and vice versa) will help the affair run it's course.

No contact will be difficult with kids schedules. Perhaps having a trusted friend that could act as go-between.

Thanks Orchid,
I do have a great support group right here at MB of course!!
No really, my kids are great(16 yr.old S has really stepped up to the plate, but I want him to be a kid), have several good friends that check on me, and try to keep me social and walking.

Even my boss at work, we share an office, he's also a Pastor and does marriage counseling, so he loves to chat, is very open and easy to talk to and has been a great support from day 1.(He's also VEERy in love w/his W) I'm really lucky there. I'm a secretary in the maintenance Dept. at a school, so the guys take great care of me, car stuff, sand for icy roads, etc. I looked outside the other day and 3 of them were under the hood of my car. I said this is great I have 3 husbands taking care of me and I get to send you home at the end of the day!!

Aside from my letters, where I did alot of walking down memory lanes and pointing out the great times & things we've done, I have a hard time being verbally affirming when WH does things that should be recognized. Maybe because there are so few these days. But I'm sure I could find something.

I am doing the 100 Day Plan A Challenge, I'm hoping it will help me to keep focused on what I need to do.

WH called me on Mother's Day to wish me a Happy one and to tell me that I'm a good mother and have been there for the kids through everything.

I was working hard at yard work, he said,"you're working hard on Mother's Day?"

I was good and didn't say anything sarcastic(several comments came to mind), just thanked him for calling and told him that I appreciated him telling me that. I was getting emotional so I cut it short.

I wish I could climb inside his brain and actually see what he's really thinking, what is going on in there? Does he miss me, the kids, our life...my cooking, the dog, ANYTHING!

Dear Learnin',

U don't want to get inside his head right now. You will find cobwebs in the logic and family love side of his brain and a bunch of parasites in the A side of his brain.

Work on improving you. Making 'learnin' a better person. I know this sounds boring but the results are what will show a positive impact on you and hurt the A. Not right away but in time.

take care,
L.

2x4's anyone?
I did something that even as I was doing it I wasn't sure why but just knew I had to. Sometimes I get like that, it's anger, it's confusion, it's my thirst for information.
I've been trying to call the Other Woman #1, from 2.5 yrs ago!(many states away) I just wanted to know if I was a fool for all that time, if he really was in touch with her longer than I had been led to believe. And to see if I could get any other info that might help me understand this whole thing. Crazy I know, I should just let sleeping dogs lie. Not that I expected her to tell me the truth, but I thought the element of surprise might help. I called the #"s that I had(but never used) with no answer several times. Then I called information and got several #'s for her last name from where she is from(where they met, she has since moved to yet another state) and who do I get but her Grammie! Nice old lady, I tell her I'm an old friend(used my first name, not really caring if OW#1 figures out who I am) from Nursing School, she gives me her address, but couldn't find her #, and tells me that she was coming home for 2 weeks at Mothers day and that she could be reached at the one of the old #'s that I had.
So I figure I have time to decide if I still want to call or not.
Well, she must've got the message cuz she called WH!!
> He called and wanted to know why I called her, thanked me for it anyways(smugly), because it was nice hearing from her, after all this time, etc. he told her what's going on, she wanted to know why I'd be calling her, thinks I was going to call her whore, etc.,or I am trying to build a case against WH, but WH says, no I don't think that's it but I don't know why she called you, W is doing lots of "crazy" things lately!
Ok, so I'm thinking, I'm an idiot, I should have just left well enough alone. Why do I do these things? I want to fill in the missing info.
But Wh and I actually had a decent conversation around this. He wasn't angry. He said he doesn't understand why I'd have to call her(and other people for that matter). I said, no you wouldn't understand, you're not the one sitting here, with your imagination running wild, thinking you've been a jerk all this time for trusting you, wondering what lies I had been living,believing he was remorseful, etc. And I said I may still call her, even though she certainly won't tell me anything now, and who knows what you told her to say.
He said,very sincerely and sad-like, "Learnin, you're not a jerk, none of this has anything to do with anything you've done, it's me." I was getting teary at this point, and I asked him if he was happy....there was a long moment of silence and then he said, "Learnin, I wouldn't know anything about happy right now." He also said again that I was a good mother and I did say this time, "just not a good enough wife" and he commented again how it's not me.
He asked if I would let him stay for a night or two, he'd like to come up as soon as he gets his car back, cuz he misses the kids and would like to see them. I said, hesitantly, that yeah I'd probably let him stay.He hasn't seen the kids in almost 3 weeks.
He also said that affair #1 was a just a "fling". Funny, I said, "that you led me to believe it was more than that, you had said you thought you loved her." He said, "I may have said that I told her that, but it was just a 3-week fling"(he was working a 4 week job out of state) Wonder if he'll ever look back at A#2 and think the same thing?!
> Later, I called him back and asked him to talk to 12 yr. old S for a minute. S was sitting like a dork,dressed in every piece of Celtic clothing, headbands,wrist bands etc. that he owned to watch what became the last game. We had a laugh about S's love for the game & superstitions and
he talked to him about the series and then to me again and said he'd call tomorrow.
Overall, even though I probably messed up (again) by calling OW#1, I feel things may be settling in for WH, I've had that feeling for days now, he seems to be in a different place right now,(not as much anger & smugness?) but I don't want to be too hopeful or read too much into it. It's hard to read WS's anyways, I know, especially when they are not around.

Ok, 2x4's, I'm ready!

Bump

learnin,

small thwack for calling first Ow...but good conversation about him having to realize that the old addage the truth will set you free is true...and that your imagination about who and what is worse than the truth...and that's the way it is...that's what his actions have created in YOUR world...

His mantra about it not being about you..is fog induced crap straight from how to speak alien handbook...
It has obviously become about you and the kids..with direct affects...that's the painful reality he needs to face....

bigger thwack for letting him stay with you...
isn't he unemployed right now and paying for an apt??
why can't he take the kids to his place..
or commute for the weekend
or get a hotel...

Plan a your butt off when he comes in...
BUT make him leave and walk away just when things are good....help him really feel his choices...

and I'll pay you to make sure you have MUFFINS in the oven when he walks in.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

ARK