HI learning,
just wanted to say ive been reading your posts and feel bad for all you are going through,all everyone here is going through!
my h also would call me crazy everytime i found out more of his secrets,and that would hurt and piss me off so bad!! until he calmed down and he would appologise alot of the stuff he said he doesnt remember, but hes so good at lying these days i dont believe much out of his mouth anymore!
i tried plan b myself,and i know im strong enough but h is not! he calls, and has pulled a few fast ones to get some time with me, i used to think alot about him wanting to b with me not anymore!
anyway i know the things they say and do hurt us so much, so i just decided i wasnt going to let him hurt me anymore,if he is around i just keep my mouth shut! i let him do all the talking. i really dont want him to know about anything we do with out him anyway!i just tell myself i got a good life ahead of me! and that is not something he can say!! his future is full of missery,guilt,regret, and i know it, HEARTACHE!!!
ive alredy told myself im moving on im not waiting on him to live my life anymore!
i loved your letter to ow!! i could sent the exact same thing to h ow,his life is headed in the same direction, hes hiding from the repoman himself.
anyway i just wanted to let you know, i know sometimes we feel so weak,and like the tears are never going to stop,but they do. i dont know,in the beggining everyone kept telling me you can do it your a strong woman! i kept telling myself why do they keep saying that to me? im not!
but sometimes we dont see what other people do see,and only now im starting to see they were right!! iam strong!! and i can do this! i dont need him!!
and it scares h,he sees me doing it and he will ask me if i need this or i need that.i just say no thanks! and it bugs the heck out of him that he doesnt know what im doing with all my free time,he will ask me questions and im just as vague as possible.
any way you are a strong woman!!

Thanks Malcswife,
It is so uncanny that all of us here share the exact same feelings, and that our WH's dish out the exact same kind of pain and misery!

And you are right! We are strong women, just because I'm emotional sometimes does not mean I'm "psychotic" or "out of control". It means I'm HUMAN and I hurt!

You sound so much better these days! I really worried about you in the early days of your experience, as did many about me I'm sure. Even though it still hurts, we are all getting stronger by the day!

This site is a godsend! It helps me sooo much to know that I am not crazy for feeling the way I do and that I have support and understanding from so many!

You are right, our WH's will be the big losers overall, it may take a while (although I really think they see all ready and are fighting it) but they will see someday all that they gave up and all the pain they caused.

Fjor me, I'm trying to do all things I usually do. I just got back from strawberry picking w/D and we're gonna make jam tonight! The kids love my jam! WH does too, but he doesn't get any!!!

Well, take care and hang in there!

I've got an appt. with lawyer next week.

Time to move forward and protect myself financially. I let it go as long as possible.
WH a bit too angry and unpredictable again.

Once process is started, do I let WH know that this does not have to be, or does he know that already. I'm so afraid. Afraid that he will see it as the point of no return. That I've given up, don't want him, never will.
Or is this what he needs to think?

This is a hard step to take. I don't want the process to move too quickly. Are there ways to slow it down without being too costly? My brother is footing the bill for now, so I feel awkward about the whole thing.

Any advice?

Learnin:

Looking back over my situation, I think the LEGAL SEPARATION has been a good thing. It has helped the reality set in for my wayward spouse. Also, it has helped me realize how I have to move on. He is trying to wake up, facing what he is potentially losing. I'm a believer now in how they have to face the potential of losing us.

My papers read that the separation agreement will become null and void upon reconciliation. He should know that.

Also you will gain his respect and your own self-respect by taking care of yourself.

Most importantly it's our job now to take care of our children.

Will write more later.

Take Care. It's the thing to do to keep the OW from stealing what's yours. She has influence over him now and therefore will try to have a stake in his money, stealing from you and your children. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Surprise, Surprise, WH calls tonight, Mr. Calm, Reasonable and with apologetic tone(though he doesn't apologize!!

I gave short responses to his comments and question:
"Did you send out the Ins. check?" Yes
"I have a $25 coupon for MCI I'll send you." OK
"I'm working but I haven't got a check yet, I'd like to save some for a junk car in case mine gets repoed and then I'll have $$ for you" OK

He doesn't say anything else, so I said Ok, then goodbye. Quietly he said goodbye.

That was it.

I'm not taking his crap anymore. If his life is so bad then let him take his anger out on OW, I'm not going to listen to it!

I feel good.
I know there is nothing more I can do, it's all out of my hands. I can only take care of me and the kids....life moves on.

I learned just like you are LEARNIN that the anger never lasts long. They are so predictable...so infantile.

I just don't know what to do anymore?

Had the appt. w/lawyer yesterday, I was really sure that I should start D process to protect Retirement Act. from WH's unpredictable behaviour. And to see if I could somehow prevent WH from taking the kids out of state to his place for visits.(I don't want them meeting OW, and at this point there is court order preventing WH from being "alone" w/her kids, per OW's H)

I'm now so still unsure if this would be a wise move. According to lawyer, WH probably needs my signature to pull his retirement funds. Also, I'd need to find the info regarding the court order, docket #, etc. Which would mean probably calling OW's H again, and I really didn't want to contact him anymore.

Will filing, force him to retain a lawyer before he was ready or before he could afford it. Will he then use $$ for lawyer that he had been using to pay mortgage, etc.? All these uncertainties make me uneasy about my decision. One minute I'm sure it's the thing to do and then the next I'm not so sure...the lawyer must think I"m a nut! Actually, he said take my time, this isn't an easy decision. He did assure it me it will probably take close to a year, the soonest 6 mos.(definately too soon for where I'm at right now!)and often longer than a year.
I'm just not sure if D is the right move at this time. Will it surely send a signal that I have given up? I know I need to move on and give WH that message, but am I rushing this?

I just don't know anymore. I'm feeling good about Plan B, it's been good not seeing or hearing from him (for the most part, he has called a couple of times). He's backed off wanting to take kids for a visit, he's coming here to take them out locally for the day instead. why would he do this? Is it just lack of money? Does he realize it is pushing it to make them go down there, meet her? Why hasn't he talked to them about any of this yet?

And why do I even care? Why can't I just let him go? Even my 16 yr. old said, "why would you want him back"!! So sad!!

I'm obviously not ready for this step,emotionally but on the other hand, my head says, I need to protect myself just in case!

Uggh, this is sooo hard. I'm ok as long as I have no big decisions to make! I'm moving on in a lot of ways, feeling good about myself, just lonely and craving love. Not sure I could ever love someone this way again, or that I'd want to. I wouldn't even want to complicate my kids' lives with yet another relationship for them to deal with.

Feeling just a bit out of sorts today with so much on my mind. I need to give the lawyer an answer, to D or not to D!

(((((((HUGS))))))) Its been awile since I posted to you so sorry your that confused , it is a very big step .. I have a question and sorry if I don't understand all so .

WHY can't you go for Legal separation first , I thought in some states you can then after a year step for D ??

I know some states you need to separate 1 yr, before you are aloud to file for D unless both parties consent .

ALso as far as the doc# your lawyer should get that info for you . Also it is public record .

I would ask the lawyer to do that work , he has access to the info and fast then you ,No I would not call WH , OW, Or OWH .

All that those through your head is noraml . Why isn't he taking kids to see OW ?? Well could be so many resons don't think about that ..

PLan B is hard and it can take awhile you already know that ...

Take your time see a different lawyer if you are not sure about some things , do not rush anything ..AT your own pace . BUT I do agree you want to protect $$$and him setting steady visitaion with kids ..

HAS your friend asked him about that for you ?? have you tried to set up a schdule for him to see kids in a letter and give it to friend to read to him .. I mean he was out of work and then again he don't work week ends so why not an every other weekend for now ..

Its his problem that he lives so far , when he was working and you 2 where together didn't he see them on week ends ??

Sorry all the questions and rambling .. STAY well , BE strong and remeber NO CONTACT with him !! You can do this .

Regarding the lawyer, this guy is supposedly top notch and he's expensive. So spending more money (my brother's) on more lawyers is actually not a good option for me.
I'm assuming if I get the Docket#, etc. then the lawyer doesn't have to spend my $$ to do it. You know how that is, you get charged everytime they make a phone call or make a photocopy! I suppose I could call all the probable courthouses in that area to search for this info.
As for legal separation. I asked that question. Supposedly, if I do that and still end up in Divorce, then the process starts all over again, thus more $$. And there is no process to secure the Retirement acct's etc. as with the injunctions w/D.
As for visitation, my dilema is not so much the scheduling of it, I really don't care if he doesn't want to put the time and effort into regular visits, his loss( yeah the kids too) but who wants to see someone who is only there because he HAS to be. Why should I be the one to set up something that will actually make him look like the dependable, consistent parent, that he obviously is not. Let his guilt of not seeing them or being there for them work it's magic. Let his diminishing relationship with his children get to him. As it is now, if he wants to see them but the kids already have plans then I have the option of saying no. Although this weekend they did have another play, but I felt they should see him. I guess It's a control thing for me?
However, if I do file D, and set up regular weekends, I definately want his weekends to be on OW's kid free weekends so that they never get a weekend without kids!! Why should they??

I'm just really feeling uneasy about how filing will affect things. Plan B is only a month or so old!

Hi Learnin-

I was wondering where you've been this past week. It seems a lot has happened. Seeing the lawyer is a big step. Even if you don't make a decision right away you have gotten some solid information to work with. I had a consult with a lawyer 2 months ago and haven't done anything yet, but at least I have some facts.

Is there any way to find out for sure if your WH needs you to sign before he can have access to the retirement fund? This one important thing seems to be your most pressing concern. If you knew for sure that he couldn't do anything w/o your sig, then you would be able to wait longer before moving ahead w/Dv, right? The visitation with your kids is still your call, you are in control, so aside from inconvenience it's not a big deal.

When I went to see my lawyer he used the word "normalize" to describe what would eventually happen to my WH, as in, "when your husband normalizes and sees what he is about to lose, the two of you can sit down and decide if you want to reconcile". I just love that word, normalize, it is so appropriate, since what we're dealing with is such "abnormal" behavior.

Keep up your solid Plan B, it's the best thing you can do for now.

lablady

WH called tonight! Why does he do this?
He had already called go between friend earlier tonight to verify if he could still come up sat to take the kids for the day.
She had called me and hadn't got back to him apparantly.
So he called me.
"Learnin"? is S still up? I told him yes, just a minute, and he says "uh, Learnin, I'm not sure what there is to do with the kids up there (he had already hinted to friend that if he could come back to my house he would stay a couple hours longer?) is there any place to rent a canoe and does D have a life jacket?
I don't know anyplace that rents canoes offhand but I suggested I'd call around tomorrow, WHY did I do THAT???
He said he'd appreciate it if I did.
He said, You know I don't hate those kids?
Yeah, I know, at least I'd like to think so.
(Funny way of showing love though!)
Now I know I'm definately letting him talk to me way more than I should have at that point..
he continues a bit about being back to work but still not on his feet yet, he'll be able to pay more of the bills and he didn't mean to leave me high and dry...
Then he says how his California Cousins stayed with him (I already knew all about that visit but didn't let on) and they raved about me, said what a great mother I am, called me a "professional Mom". (That's good I guess, just not what he was looking for?)
He's really trying to get chatty now.
I did tell him that S might have a Basketball hoop set up by sat. he could play hoops for a while(I don't want him the house though!)
He asked, who was setting it up?
(ME! who the hell else?, I was at it for 2 hrs. today and still not done, I just said, me.)
He said, well I can help sat. if it's not done.
Anyways, he talked to the two youngest and then I took the phone back and said, OK then bye. and hung up.

Way too much dialogue for Plan B!! I wish he didn't call and that I didn't listen or answer, I hate being back in the, Why was he being nice, what's going on, mode!

But...why was he being nice and what's going on?

I did try to hold back on info. but still got sucked in a bit. I will have to do better if this happens again.

Learnin
I'm not there quite yet and so maybe shouldn't judge, but IMHO you are doing a very weak Plan B. Remember, Plan B is not only to bring the WS home but to protect you from exactly what you are going through right now. Why is he being so nice and what's going on? He is testing you, and you may be failing the test. Avoid him. Ignore him. As hard as it will be, as the great Mortarman says, "GO DARK". If you are here you know it is your best hope. As long as he believes that there is a net, he is going to continue to dance upon the wire.

Yeah, I know it's a weak Plan B all right.
And I know that he hates it, so if I can just stick to the Plan....when I do, I feel so much better.
As a result of talking to him, I keep playing his words, tone, through my mind, over and over.

All i can do is pick myself up, give myself a good shakin, and start all over again.

Learin , don't be so hard on yourself , you are doing good . So you may get court off gaurd with the call , so just be shorter next time and less info ..Rember don't be hard on yourself , PLAN B is rough and you have kids involved .

So sometimes (not alot) there may be things you get court off gaurd with , so you should keep that in mind and be prepared for it .

DON"T put thouhgt into his tone , think about yours , think of how you can let him here in your voice a difference ..

JMVHO , The only part of that convo that may have not been good was you offering to call around for him with a place to go with kids ..

HE has a phone and call dail information .. so let him do the leg work ..

So like you said, shake it off don't get pulled back in to the toughts of why? or he sounded this way or that way / just keep on movin on .

Even in PLAN A people fall off the saddle and LB , shake it off and move on .. SO PLAN B is new and it is really hard ,, but very affective , and there will be little bumps in the raod , but it takes time to really keep it steady ..

SO again you are doing good ,, jump back on .

OH and JMO but watch out for SAT. have plans ,, cause if PLAN B is starting to get to him even alittle , he will try to come to the house , even to catch a glips of you and to make you SEE him .

THATS just my thoughts on it .. when YOU START IGNORING SOMEONE they act angree in the beging like ok I don't want to see you either type of attitude then as time goes on they test the water .(like the calls )

THEN they back off again and try to see you even if its for just a min. and keep in mind the kids can always be the excuse for him to do that . SO stay STRONG !!

OK JMVHO ,, check in after the weekend .

WH called tonight! Why does he do this?
Because he knows you will talk to him.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by learnin:
<strong>Yeah, I know it's a weak Plan B all right.
And I know that he hates it, so if I can just stick to the Plan....when I do, I feel so much better.
As a result of talking to him, I keep playing his words, tone, through my mind, over and over.

All i can do is pick myself up, give myself a good shakin, and start all over again.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">A weak Plan B has the effect of letting the affair go on and on and on. Everyone gets more hurt by a weak Plan B (which is really a poor Plan A).

Part of MB principles is learning to mean what you say and say what you mean.

Plan B is no communication (as minimal as possible). If he sends a letter, email, voicemail, DON'T read or listen to it. You have told him this is what you will do and you aren't doing what you have said you would do.

It's like this.
Why should he believe that if he returns, you will not hold everything over his head, or stay in "fix marriage" mode since you cannot keep to "no-contact"?

<small>[ July 19, 2003, 02:01 AM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

Learnin:

You know that of all people I certainly know how we can easily get sucked back in. They are our teammates, life partners. Of course, we fall right back into our same routines/scripts with them. They know that and are counting on that. I've figured out now why PLAN B can work. Their lives are really thrown off track by having to get out of the rhythm of relying on us.

However, I've also realized that I am getting just crumbs while the OW is getting the buffet. She's having all the fun while you are doing the work of helping to make arrangements for him. YUK!!

Learnin, try to forget about the phone call and get back up on the saddle. Try to shake thoughts of the phone call out of your head. I know he sounded good, my WS does too. But it is not really him. He was really an ALIEN disguised as your husband.

Take Care.

<small>[ July 18, 2003, 12:55 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

<small>[ July 18, 2003, 12:52 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

I'm checking on you. Hope you are OK!!!

WH came for visit with kids on sat. I was in the house when he came, he was checking out B-Ball hoop and then over at the swing set.
I sent a note out outlining steps for ending the visit, I would allow him back to the house when they were done with their outing, he could call me when he was ready to leave and I would get back just "after" he had left or I would call to say I was on my way home and he could leave. (Letting him come in the house was just a generous offer on my part, I'm always too easy)

I got in my car, yelled goodbye to the kids in the yard and left for the day.
I had a ball!! Spent the day at a friends camp with 4 other women, sunning on a dock, laughing, I'm so glad they "made" me go!!

WH called late afternoon, told friend he was ready to go. WHen I got home he was still there!
We exchanged a few brief word about their outing, I went inside, He stayed almost another hour playing basketball and then left.

Overall, very limited contact, the note helped keep conversation to a minimum and I kept out of sight as much as possible.

Sun., me and D spent the day at another friends camp, and had another great day, lots of fun!!!

I'm just not sure if I feel much anymore or what I'm feeling.
I think because I really feel that I'm moving on and that it is the only thing that is going to happen, no hopes for reconciliation, I'm sad again about that. I'm sad for all of us. The kids, WH (he'll lose out big time)and me.

I know we'll be ok, I just want to be more than OK. Sure, I have some fun days, I keep busy, but there is such a big emptiness inside, I try to ignore it, mask it, deny it, but it's always there...

Feeling a bit down today. Came here to share some things, but having second thoughts. Unsure if family is still lurking and well...not comfortable anymore.
This was such a good place for me.
Maybe I'll try again another time, when I'm not feeling so vulnerable.