Okay, I'm jumping in here too.

I'm not sure what day this is for me, somewhere between day 30 and day 45. (Day 45, if you count the time we shared EN/LB inventories, but only about day 30 from when we had formal action plans.)

At any rate. At our last FB session, Friday night, H told me that while I was doing some good things on his EN, that if I criticize him, it negates all the good things for that day and perhaps several days. I have been swallowing criticism rather than voice it, so was suprised to hear this. He was willing to give me an example-- said I humiliated him by asking what he had gotten me for Mother's Day from our cats, in front of his father. I guess this was a dumb thing to say, I certainly had no expectation of a mother's day gift from the cats-- I've never had a mother's day gift from our pets in the 21 years we've had our four-legged kids. I apologized, and did not mention that surely if he did not get me anything for my BD, why would expect something on Mother's Day. But it sure hid a chord with me.

Another interesting point-- his biggest need is admiration. I had complimented him on how nice he looked with a dark tan (he's been out in the sun) and mentioned that it reminded me of how tan he was when we first met, and how attractive that was to me. He said his first thought is, that then he can't be attractive to me unless he's tan, and depending on where we live/climate, that's not always possible.

So anyway, yesterday, let's call it day 30.

He worked, but we had plans for after work. He did meet me, but was in a funk. I did not press, but was pleasant. Even when he bailed after about 45 min, said he had a headache and was going home.

He was supposed to take Sunday off, for us to have time together, and for some things around the house. (this was a POJA like agreement made a week ago). He called the office and they wanted him to work. He did not immediately agree, said he'd call them back. He said he wanted to work, and he knew it's something I would not be "wildly enthusiastic" about. He did not ask me how I felt, or offer any alternatives. I was patient and pleasant, and listened. He continued the discussion, without actually involving me-- he was simply processing it all himself. Finally he announced that he was going to work, unless I was going to kill him. Then he said, or put my pillow in the catbox.

Only then did I say how nice it would be if we could reach a compromise, where he was going to work, but that I also had assurance that some of what Sunday had been "reserved" for, would still occur, even if it was not on Sunday.

He indicated that this would be handled when we determined how many/what days he'd work next week, and that even if he could only work one or two days, everything would be taken care of-- our 15 hours, household tasks, the things that need to be done before our trip. He also said that in his current (very bad) mindset, we can't make any progress on our relationship anyway.

On a good note, he did put a call in to get an appt with Steve H, something that I find very positive. (most of our appts are together, but last week I set up one just for me. I had told him it was very helpful to me, and offered that he might consider it.)

So anyway, I had very little time to meet EN's yesterday. He was gone for work for 13 hours, with me for 45 min after work-- but sullen. Then we had the time where he decided that instead of staying home today, we would work after all.

I don't think I met any EN's, but at least I avoided LBs. It was the kind of day, that led me to decide that I need a timeframe for how long I should work on this, based on "faith" that someday it might get better. This is not something I am willing or able to do indefinately, without more progress, more from him. I can, and will, do it for now. But this can't be a forever thing for me.

Squeak, You've got some good points about squashing big unmanageable long-term goals into small, daily aims. Any for me? Don't think of weight -- I've lost 20 pounds since this began, and I wasn't heavy to begin with! Unfortunately, I don't get to look model-like -- I start to look like Abraham Lincoln.

Maybe I'll try to do a little of my own writing every day.

Hard to move forward because I'm inundated with so much daily "single mother" stuff (bills, car problems, chauffeuring kids, job) and I no longer know what I "want." Can't say I even "want" reconciliation anymore. But Plan A -- insofar as I have opportunities to do it -- seems like the best way to move forward alone or together. As long as you have to negotiate with someone, you might as well be on good terms with them. Insofar as I am in a quasi-Plan B, I'm allowed to get myself together in peace.

Funny thought occurred to me the other day: we all want the bourgeois things -- a loyal spouse in bed with us at night, bills paid, warm fireplace, etc. But suppose we are called upon to live great lives, not commonplace ones? Suppose we are called on to display great heroism. Look at St. Paul, or Dietrich Bonhoeffer, or heaven knows how many. Can we do it?

AM, I am a little confused about how you can actually do Plan A. With him living with the OW, I am not sure you have a way to do plan A.

How did his moving out, come about? (ie,did you ask him to leave, or did he make this decision?) If you did ask him, was it with a plan B letter?

I honestly don't know if you can do Plan A without daily contact, at least by phone. I could be wrong. But it seems like Plan A is an attempt to build a love bank balance up, and while absence prevents LB withdrawals, it does not allow for EN deposits. So your balance just stays where it is...

While I am not technically in Plan A (since there is not an OW, to my knowledge) it does seem that Plan A is the same as the plan to simply rebuild the loving marriage, by daily efforts to meet EN and avoid LB.

Is there any regular contact with him? Does he know that you love him, and want to make your marriage work for both of you? These would be important, I think. They are key parts of the Plan B letter, as well as Plan A efforts.

No, it was a strange situation. I had to ask him to leave, making it clear I would love to have him stay, on condition he give up contact with OW. He was lying to me, and exploring possibilities of moving out while lying about it. I made it clear that our family and home wasn't a hotel that he could move out of when he made other arrangements. He wasn't going to have dinner with the family and sleep next to me, while emailing OW and arranging assignations and alternative living situations behind my back. It was an awful, deceitful situation. I was firm, but not hysterical.

H seems to be avoiding me, but then, as yesterday (or was it day before?) telephones when he could have emailed. We bump into each other quite often in public (small community), I smile and nod and move on. Contact by email -- sometimes daily, sometimes weekly. OW often with him in public. I have no idea what the situation is.

So you could call it a Plan A, although you are right, it is very skimpy for that. But, like many on this board, I could be writing nasty emails, phoning him up and chewing him out, etc. I am not. I am to some extent allowing the lack of contact, and mostly getting on with my own life. Being kindly and chatty -- but not more, and trying not to initiate.

A Plan B letter would be counterproductive -- I think it would play into his wishing to create a fait accompli to justify his decisions. Plus, what is considered my "extreme" behavior was what he felt justified his behavior -- and he would consider a Plan B letter "extreme." (His lies, adultery, etc., were not considered "extreme.")

I told him I loved him early in the separation. To repeat would be an irritant, an LB, I think. There's not too much to do until the A goes boom. The women has emotional problems of some sort, and has been behaving oddly in public, enough to cause comment. Can't imagine what life with her must be like.

So any input welcome. I don't see too much what I can do, and were it not for OW's instability, the situation would seem admittedly hopeless. It may indeed be hopeless, since I'm not sure I'd even want to put the pieces back together, or know how. But it's worth a shot.

AD, I'm sorry for what you are going through. Now that you explain the situation, I guess I think you're more in B than A... perhaps you're in B+, a new variation.

I think you are wise to mostly move on with your life. I think you should ensure that you are, and he perceives you, to be strong and capable. It's fine-- no, GOOD to be pleasant in public. That takes guts, it must hurt terribly to see them together in public.

You should make sure that you are keeping things together. Try to look good-- don't let things go in terms of your appearance (AS). I agree with your decision not to iniatite contact. I am not as sure about allowing contact, but that might be best in B+. On one hand, it's letting him continue to have both of you, at some level. But, it's also him "cheating" on the OW in a small way, which my darker side would like. If you do any counseling with Steve H, I'd get his input on this part.

I would NOT provide financial or tactical, day to day assistance. I'd make sure that while he was choosing OW instead of me, that I did not make his life better; and I would want to do all I could to make him start feeling that life with me would be preferable to life with her. Ie, she's odd in public? I'd want to be pretty, charming, a role model of public behavior.

I would also force myself to maintain a good support system in the community. (I'd have a natural tendancy to withdraw and hide) I'd make sure I was out there, social, pleasant, acting in such a way that I was involved with people and events, in a positive way. Part of this would help me not miss him so much, and wallow in misery. But I'd also want folks to be "on my side" and not on "their side". I'd want public opinion to support me, validate me; and I would not want their relationship to have that same "sanctioning" that would help it to thrive.

If you can afford it, get help with some household or childcare tasks, so you can have time at the spa, gym, pool, play cards, take a watercolor class-- choosing group things so that you also have conversations and interaction.

I hope this helps, use what makes sense, ignore the rest as well intentioned but off base.

Thanks, Squeak. I'm doing many of the things you mentioned. My husband has an "alpha male" role in this community -- hence, the new "relationship" is inevitably getting limited sanction in the community, and there is some alienation from me as a relic of the past. This is inevitable, and some of it, no doubt, is my imagination.

I do try to look good, and I'm told I'm succeeding. I do try to be personable and "out there" -- though I, too, would like to hole up at this point.

Seeing them together is not so much painful as bizarre and weird. It shows a terrible character flaw in him, that everyone is trying not to see.

You are right. It is kind of a Plan B+ -- a lot of the communication involves household management, which I've never been very good at. Nonetheless, I've solicited little help or advice from him -- he initiates about 90 percent of the contact, I'd say. It's for the most part pretty aloof on his side -- occasionally dropping into some kindness. This is odd, considering we didn't part with broken crockery and shrieks. He seems anxious to try to "bond" with OW, however futile that will be, and I suspect she was even in the room when he spoke on the phone. This I find troubling, but I never protest anything. Let him try. I don't think she can "do" relationships.

If he's getting the cake-eating illusion of two women -- I must say, it is an illusion. He's not getting very much from me. I treat him like I am a kind neighbor, nothing more. Chatty, friendly, pleasant, not divulging much personal information. I'm a pretty active lady; I'd like to do more, but I just can't think of what. Patience, I'm told...as the poem goes:

Patience is a virtue,
Possess it if you can.
It is seldom found in woman,
But never found in man.

(Sorry, A.D.)

I don't try to be too "strong and capable." I think it was one of the pitfalls of our relationship -- he needed to be needed, even if he's not capable of filling someone with emotional needs. I'm a little flustered with managing all this stuff on my own, and I don't mind showing it sometimes when he contacts me.

Gee, what can I do??? It's frustrating. But again, if we were ever to reconcile, he would have to want it very, very badly -- and I just don't see that in the near term, if ever.

A.M.Martin,

Glad to hear your update - re your phone convo with H.

Well, you do what you can do. Your description of H and OW leads me to agree that there should be a time in the future where he will decide that OW is not worth the bother. By maintaining a non-LB relationship with him, you have a good chance of being a safe haven for him when that time comes.

I suppose that's all you can do right now. Maybe it's all you should do right now.

You seem to be holding up very well under the cirumstances.

I took note of your comments re being too self-sufficient. It makes sence to me that your H may "need to be needed" and oddly enough OW is filling that need. That's a strange situation, but it makes sence. Your H is the Alpha Male (as you call him) and he doesn't need an Alpha Female - but some kind of Beta - somebody clearly beneath him. I don't know what you can do about that - except the age old (and in my view rather pathetic) trick of pretending to be helpless. I remember the girl (in my case it was only one <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ) from college who tried the line "OH AD, this is so hard - can you teach me?". I declined. I don't know why. Actually, I rather enjoy being an all-knowing authority - and have little opportunity for it now.

-AD

Squeak,

Thanks for your comments and the sensible suggestion of taking my work an hour at a time.

The fact that I am posting now serves as proof of my failure to even go one hour without poking around the internet - checking the stocks, the news and MB - when I should be working (stocks are bad for me this morning <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ).

If I can just say, I'll put nose to grindstone from now til noon - it would make a difference, I agree.

I dont' think it is an easy problem, however. I'm too far gone. I'm desparate to fix it. It is not just work, but it affects my W's feelings of safety - of being able to depend on me - to trust me. Everything is wound together in life.

Thanks also for your update on your "plan a". I agree that it is a little differerent since there is no A in your case - and especially since your H is participating in the process. My W is near the point of participating in the process, but not quite there. Perhaps in a week or so I will ask her for a EN survey or a LB survey (probably that one first) - and see what she says about it. I think she might be receptive soon. See update below.

Thanks for posting on "my" thread.

-AD

Update on days 10-12 - Good Weekend.

The weekend turned out very nicely - although last night it seemed to be making a downturn.

I honestly think my W enjoys my company - and the downturn was partly due to the fact that I was going to be back at work this morning - leaving her minding the 2-year-old on her own. She probably wouldn't admit that she enjoys my company and perhaps it would be more accurate to say that she doesn't enjoy being alone at home.

W is still not sleeping anything like normal hours. She left for a shopping trip at 2am (at which time I went to bed). This morning, I went downstairs at 5am and found her watching TV. I do know that she shopped - and checked out at 3am - so it seems she was not meeting OM somewhere. She said she had been home for awhile when I found her at 5 - and she came to bed then. I'm sure she's going to have a very difficult morning again trying to keep up with a lively child on just a few hours' sleep.

But starting over at Friday afternoon.

I came home (without sushi - more on that later) - knowing that W had been depressed for about 2 days and wanting to give her a little tender care. She quickly agreed to me cooking dinner - and I made a dash to the store for supplies - prepared a nice beef and lamb stew, putting the weekend on a good start. She took a walk with the child while I cooked. After eating, cleaning kitchen - she mentioned that she might invite somebody Sat night - so I started on a little house-cleaning. I never made much progress on that over the whole weekend - but the suggested guests were never actually invited so no crisis developed.

Friday night after getting the child to sleep, W unexpected initiated something so that...

Saturday morning I awoke thinking "what a nice dream" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> - then realized that it was not at all a dream and I smile now to think about it. Wow!

OK... where was I....

Saturday morning, I was up first - well, not quite first - since 2-year-old under some circumstances has discovered how to climb out of the crib and was jumping around on the "big bed" in the other room - singing all the while. So, I got up, changed her diaper and while looking for her clothes, she suddenly took an interest in a tu-tu (toy thing really) that was hanging in her room - so I just for fun, put her in that. She was prancing around house looking like a little ballet star - except for a headpiece that doesn't quite fit the ballet image - more of a cabaret type think - with a string of pink feathers. When W came down - D was looking very very cute - and I was "playing the piano". For my W, the first moments of the day can really set the tone and her mood - and this was a good start.

It rained and rained and rained - so no flower beds were dug. I made some kind of breakfast? Brunch? - was cooking an omlet when W said she didn't care for an omlet today. No problem, N appeared and ate the whole 4-egg thing along with his lunch sandwiches (20-year-old guys are handy when you have some extra food to dispose of). I only saved a small sample for D to eat.

I cooked lunch about 2pm. W was very appreciative. I took a few extra moments to garnish (imagine that!) the plate. She thought it was very pretty and tasty too. So, I collected more points here. N was working, so it was just us and the 2-year-old. Still raining.

W drifted off somewhere to browse the web and I cleaned the fridge - for only the second time in the last 6 months. Even N noticed. All the old rotten things were out, all the spills clean up etc. Took me 2 hours. That about caps my house cleaning for the weekend. I didn't acheive my plan for vacuuming, bathroom cleaning etc. But, things went very well and I didn't get worked up about not being able to do that. I spent almost the entire weekend with my W.

W cooked a nice fish soup Sat night - but didn't eat. N and I ate. Afterwards, W wanted to go to the bookstore. She likes to have some kind of outing on the weekend - even if it is only to the bookstore. We set out, but the rain was pouring down so hard that she didn't feel like getting out of the car there - and again begain to talk of sushi. We thought there was one place with a drive-through that used to do sushi and drove there so we wouldn't have to get out of the car in the heavy rain. W thought it might be romantic to sit in the car in a heavy rain and eat sushi. Whatever. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> W was mistaken on both counts, they don't really have a drive-through and they don't have sushi anymore anyway, so back we went toward the bookstore - but rain was slacking and we passed a new japanese place and I said "why not stop here". She instantly agreed, so in we went - for "just a bite of sushi". Now, it is not a bad idea for to have already eaten when I take W for sushi. I don't think I could afford to actually satisfy my normal appetite. Anyway, we had a nice time and with W eating 2/3 of our order - me just tasting (since I already ate) - left only $43 behind. W is a very light eater. D was in an agreeable mood - not fussy - playful and smiling instead.

W said it was the best yet. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Just my luck.

So as we drove away (too late for the bookstore which closes at 11), she asked "was it more than $20?". I replied "Don't worry about it. It's my treat." She speculated (adding in her head) "No, it's between 20 and 30)". I didn't reply.

Q: How does the policy of honesty and openest fit in here? I don't want to make a habit of that - as we are running very tight on money just now. But, if I'm honest, W will feel guilty and say "I'll never eat out again" or some such line.

I suppose you california and NY folks think I got off cheaply, but a typical meal here runs $9-$11 per person, so this is not an every-week kind of thing.

Sunday, no church again.

Again, I got D up in the morning - changed and dressed her - fed her a little.

Details now lost.

Mid-afternoon, W asked me to go look at a used outdoor item (with slide) for D to play on. I went and bought it - set it up in the yard. It's big, plastic and 4 bright colors - Don't know what the neighbors are going to say... and where we live, we have already learned that they *will* have something to say.

W and D liked it, so that's all that matters for now. It wasn't raining, but pretty squishy in the grass. D got a bit wet a muddy, but that was OK - fun actually.

W had bought some grapevines and insisted that I plant them. This is a kind of situation where we often get into trouble and it was stressful for me. As I started to dig, I definitely did not feel good about it - but it got better. In short, W is more impulsive that I am. I want to plan things - and do it "right". W wants to "just do it". Later, I realized (after reading about grape-growing on the net) that (1) I should have oriented the row east-west so that the southern sun could fall on the vines. and (2) it's very hard to grow grapes in a neighborhood where people use broad-leaf herbicides (2-4-D) on their lawns. We shall see. They are planted - pretty well - and I'll have to build the supports next weeks and begin training the vines. I'm OK with it.

W went off of to buy bread while D and I played. When she returned, I was making bubbles for D. W likes to see us playing together that way. Points for me.

Part of the evening, I was organizing W and D's (clean) clothes - which for several weeks had been piled in the floor in the extra room across from the laundry. My D has something like 40 unmatched socks! I don't know that I gained any points by this activity. My W took it as a criticism of her housekeeping. I would have used the time better (making love bank deposits) by vacuuming.

We took a walk around sundown - the three of us. It was very pleasant. This is certainly an opportunity for deposits. W and I were walking with DD in the middle holding our hands and W said "I would never want to take this away from our child." Again confirming that she does not want a divorce. Soon I think she might be willing to actively work on the marriage - do then EN survey etc. She has read some on MB site and sometimes gives hints. If I'm able figure her out without a formal discovery process it might be just as well.

We got D in bed about 11 (late). I got my clothes ironed for today while W browsed the web.

Then the downturn happened.

W was sitting downstairs and called me as I passed the top of the stairs. I came to her. She looked a bit "down" again. It was almost midnight. She started talking about "life" - about finishing her degree - changing her major or not - about what to do about our D. Summer term starts in about 10 days and she is signed up for two night classes - not in her current major. She doesn't want to use daycare but in her current major they don't offer enough night classes. Even if she changed her major she would have to take some day classes. Her education is a continual source of pain for her. She has often said that she regrets not finishing before she had a child. We talked about not only ed, but work to follow it - and W again doesnt' want to use daycare - asked "What do working mothers do in the summer when their kids are not in school?" I had to reply that I don't have any specific answers but that there are "programs" in which the kids can be enrolled for the summer. She didn't like that answer. Yes, I agreed that life is harder for women because they have more choices and no matter which they choose somebody will try to make them feel guilty about it.

W started LB'ing bigtime - critisized everything and everybody - whole nations were swept away beneath her scorn. I finally had the good sense to hold my tongue - and she drifted off into only complaining about her Mom - a relatively safe topic for me. At 2am (again) she said she wanted some "Nutello" (a chololate-hazelnut spread for bread - very nice). I should go to bed while she was off to the store.

I already told about that at the top of this "report". Thanks to all who have the endurance to read.

In summary. A very good weekend.

Now, TO WORK.

-AD

Update

On the physical aspect my plan A is going perfect.
Taking the pounds off...

On the psicological is a whole another story... like turtle speed.

I know that in time reaching the weight I want to reach my attitude towards life, H and relationships will be changing... Is just that now is in the pit (my self esteem).. but in time it will go up again...

So keep going PPL. THIS HAS TO WORK!

<small>[ May 19, 2003, 10:42 AM: Message edited by: matilde ]</small>

more - quoting myself.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by AD:
<strong>Update - Day 6 (Monday):
...
One thing I have figured out about my conversation/confrontation style. I have a habit which is a form of sarcasm. W will say something which could be understood two ways - though I know what she means, I will turn it around to the other way. I have a hard time coming up with an example. I know (and she has said) that sarcasm really is a turn-off for her.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I did one of these in my discussion with W last night (see "downturn" in update above). W was saying something like "Once you become a parent, you are not free" - I knew she was talking about from the perspective of a woman, but I picked up on it and replied "Yes, I know that I have to work now - no matter what - to support my family." W looked a bit thoughful as if she hadn't thought about that - and said "well actually, I was talking about as a mother" - so I suppose I got away with it but every time I do this it reinforces the idea that I don't understand her. I've got to stop that!

-AD

Matilde,

I almost missed your update - haven't seen you for awhile.

I know it must be hard to be separated - and him living with OW.

When W and I were "separated", we actually saw a lot of each other and over time, it developed into me staying at her apt. many nights - probably half the time. She never lived with OM - and as far as I know (perhaps I am naive) she only was "with" him once - and confessed the next day. So, I think I had a much easier time than you have now. I can't imagine how painful it is for you.

I'm glad you're making progress on your self-improvement program. I suppose that's about all you can do right now - and avoid LB's when you do have contact.

-AD

<small>[ May 20, 2003, 10:53 AM: Message edited by: AD ]</small>

My Sunday wasn't so good. I did not see H till 7pm, so no opportunities for EN or LB.

We chatted a bit, then I shared some MB forms that I found, that I thought were good/useful. He said they were overwhelming.

I probably made a mistake then. I asked if he felt any better about his ENs now, that he did a month ago before I started working on meeting them. He said no. I then asked if he felt I was trying. He said, yes. I then asked if he was open to having me meet those needs.

He said he didn't know, and had a few start/stops, before he said he was just so angry and when he thinks about things, he can't believe what an idiot he is.... (I think, to put up with me). He said he really needs to talk to Steve H, which he will do this week.

At this point I backed off. After a bit, I came over and hugged him, and told him how sorry I am that we're having this trouble. He touched me back, and said it's not my fault. I think he appreciated what I did.

Today, we scheduled out some time, (our 15 hours) as well as planned out the week. And he got confirmation of his appt with Steve H. I am going to double up on Affection (his #5 per the survey, but I suspect maybe needed alot right now) and will try to just do my plan, and keep things as light and easy as possible between us. To me, that feels like "denial" but I think it is what he needs.

Actually, AD, I AM the omega female. I'm incredibly bad at figuring out how to run a household. I can cook up a storm, entertain, be charming...but I can never find the electric bills. I can't figure out how to maintain this place on my own.

Came home at 7.30. I was out ALL DAY with the bloody car repairs. $850 worth of repairs. It's hopeless. Brake pads, axel (axle?), struts, the works. I did initiate contact with H from service place -- I hadn't the faintest idea whether the repairs were reasonable or not. Or even what, exactly, was being repaired. He's the only person who knows the car.

I come home, after losing a whole day of work. Email from H about moving out his furniture, using OW's son-in-law. This is just too, too much. Especially condidering it's H's neglect that cost me $850 for the car (my stepson offered to help pay...I refused). H concludes the email by saying, "Since both our plans for the future are uncertain..." he would not want to negotiate removal of last furniture items. What?!? He's living with OW. That seems pretty certain to me!!! Is he reconsidering? Or pretending it's less certain than it is???

I will not reply. I will not LB. Friends over for dinner tonight (almost as soon as I got home), plenty of wine and cognac. I will not think tonight. Will reply to H...sweetly...in the a.m. Or p.m. Or sometime. But not now.

A pretty good day for me... did not get into anything heavy. Just a pleasant, easy going day.

Started with scheduling out our week-- all we needed to do was agree on our 15 hrs together. This took 2 hours, as he kept jumping to other subjects, but we finally got it, and I maintained my poised and was nice the whole time.

Spent part of the day apart, part together. No issues, no LBs, it was pretty easy. I think he was trying.

Tomorrow he talks to Steve H. I hope it goes well.

Update - day 13, beginning of 14 (Monday, Tues)

Yesterday, although W had very little (4 hours) sleep, she seemed to be OK. Our 2-year-old was being sweet - which helps alot. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Also the rain has stopped.

At work, I was not doing well at all - stuck.
Boss came by in the afternoon - great guy! - got me going a bit. I'm fortunate to work for him.

At lunch, I didn't call home - since calling before lunch annoys my W - and since she got to bed at 5am and I suspected that she might be especially cranky. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I tried to go get a battery put in W's watch. They couldn't do it at Wal-mart, so I bought some strawberries and took them home with me for lunch - just a little something so I didn't come home empty handed. W noticed and said "thanks".

W and D were out in the backyard - W trying to plant something. Digging is hard for her since he has back problems and is a lady after all.

I dug a bit for her so she could plant, then went inside for my lunch. Neighbor with another little girl came over and the girls were playing on the new slide thing and the Moms were sitting around the sandbox talking. I came out and tooks some pictures. It seemed to be going well.

Before I left, W asked me to put the carseat in her car so she could go somewhere in the afternoon. I did that and left.

After work, W seemed in an OK mood - offered me dinner - said she ate a late lunch - didn't eat with me. After eating, I mowed the lawn until dark. W came out part of the time and was playing with D in the yard while I mowed. Everyting was on an even keel. No problem.

W told me that she invited some friends for dinner Tuesday night. I was anxious to get in and clean house, but after mowing and cleaning up, I just sat and talked with her until time to put our daugter to bed. Also, I cooked a little snack for them to eat. It was almost 11 when D was in bed and we just went to sleep too - in MBR together (now becoming normal again). So, no house cleaning was done! Even the kitchen was a mess when I left for work this morning. This is not good! At lunch today I'll go home and work on that and I have to leave promptly from work since our guests are invited at 5:30. W usually gets really worked up about housecleaning when we have guests - and these people have never been to our new house so she will be wanting to make a good impression. On the other hand, I suspect she will be embarrassed that our house is so big - since these friends live in a 2BR apt with two kids. W might decide to skip the house tour, but with the kids, I'm sure we'll need to clean everything but the bedrooms. W is going to be frantic this afternoon. I think I really let her down by not at least cleaning for an hour last night.

-AD

AD, you are such a workhorse! (except for at your job). Each time I read your posts, I find myself wishing you could stop by my house once or twice a week.

Seriously, however, I have an observation. You are doing lots of housework and household chores, as a way to show love. Is DS one of your W's top five needs? From reading your posts, I would have to assume it is her #1 need. If it is not, then it's possible that the same level of effort would be more effective elsewhere.

Also, it strikes me that the DS arrangement at your house is dramatically different from what is outlined in Harley's books. (where there is a division, and the person to whom things are most important accepts some responsibility for doing something.)

It might be that there is history or agreements in your house of which I am unaware, and if this is offbase, feel free to ingnore it as being well intentioned but not of value.

Either way, it's clear to me you are trying very hard.

Squeek,

Good question. Is DS W's #1 need.

I don't know. Perhaps it isn't, but she does appreciate it - especially when I clean the kitchen or vacuum. Some things she doesn't appreciate. At lunch today, I took some spots out of the carpet - chocolate and some kind of marker. W said "that didn't have to be done." - because she wanted me to do straighten up instead. I did straighen up some also, but for her, the spots were unimportant.

Perhaps her #1 need is something like "acceptance" - which is not on Harley's list. When she has guests coming, she panics because she is afraid they will think she is a bad housekeeper - that they will not accept her. When she goes, for example, to a baby shower, she always carries about 4 times as many gifts people normally do - because she's trying to gain some kind of social acceptance. It's vital to her.

So, my participation in housecleaning - especially in the run-up to guests, falls in the catogory of "protection". I'm protecting her against her guests rejection of her as a housekeeper. In reality, the guests don't really care - and probably don't notice, but it is a fear that my W has - and my job to protect her from that thing she fears. Does that make sense?

As for daily housecleaning. We used to have a routine that if she cooks, I clean the kitchen. I have always thought that was fair and I don't mind. She gets really depressed getting up in the morning and seeing a dirty kitchen, so I'm protecting her from that. She will often give me a hug when she comes in and sees the kitchen clean.

And finally....
Plan A is not "fair" - it is not about give and take - it is pure giving. I don't know how to make the transition to a "normal" lifestyle - unless she actually does fall in love with me again and start giving back just because she wants to. In some ways (SF, and affection) lately, she has begun to do that already.

But. I get your point. I'll think about it and see if there is a better way to use my time.

I'm sure gifts are not what she wants.

She wouldn't mind a more attractive (thinner) spouse.

Financial Support she gets - but she is afraid that my job is not secure - and we still spend more than I make. I'm sure it would be a huge deal if I sold the other house and refinanced the new house onto a 15-year mortgage. That would bring us to the place where we break even from month to month - even paying N's tuition.

What else... I'll think about it.

Thanks,

-AD

AD, thanks for considering my perspective, that's so nice. I'm pleased that you are willing to mull it over.

It makes sense, that what she is seeking is acceptance and approval from others. It also occurs to me, that this might be something more powerful, if she actually earned it herself. She might feel like a "fraud" if the perceived acceptance she craves, was actually earned by YOU not by her.

She might *feel* more acceptance, if she thought it really belonged to her. I'm not sure that you are meeting her EN, but creating circumstances where Other People's Acceptance is the yardstick for success. I think YOUR acceptance would be a way you meet her EN.

And I can certainly doing "favors" for someone, and sharing household tasks.

But I am not sure that those things will make her love you. I'm not sure it's really an EN that you can fill, that will build up your love bank balance. I think maybe it falls into DS, and Affection (the courtesies part). But if those needs rank lower for her, than AS and FS, then some of your effort might pay bigger dividends if the same time/effort were invested in those areas.

Of course, to suddenly "withdraw" as the housekeeper would be a potential LB, so any transistion would have to be carefully considered. Bottom line, which would do the most good?

a. invest 1.5 hours per day over the next two weeks, in making good nutrition and exercise part of your day, so that you lost 7-8 pounds, and started to trim/firm up; and redirect at least 2 hours per work day, to doing an outstanding job at work-- thus improving job performance and job security. Total investment: about 40 hours

b. invest all 40 hours in housekeeping, including special clean up to accomodate W's unilateral decisions to schedule an event that requires extra effort on your part?

If you think A might be better, over time, then it might be time to consider making transitioning and redirecting your (very impressive) efforts.

As a start, since half of the time is on the job hours anyway, you could track your housekeeping time, so you know where you start. Let W know that you know how important your being more attractive is, and let her know that you are starting to spend 1 hour per day on this, and that she can count on you (dependability) to do this. What I'm not as sure of... is how to extricate yourself from the scenario where she announces guests are arriving, and you must leap into overdrive to do things that are important to her, but not important enough for her to play an active role. That's a tough one.

Moving into Day 15...H sends email about wanting to get some more stuff out of the house, and wanting to make arrangements with OW's son-in-law to come help move furniture. Yuck. I send back polite email, saying I had asked for furniture-moving to happen while kids were out of school and away from the house, that it was unpleasant for them to have to watch his returns to remove stuff like this is some sort of storage unit (I didn't say that -- I was more polite). I also say I would like "a person more neutral to the situation" to enter my home to help move heavy items.

Read: OW's clan will not be allowed in my home.

I did everything possible to make this a non-inflammatory correspondence. Said I appreciated his patience with waiting, as he moved out in unusual circumstances. Offered to find someone else to help with moving. Offered to box up his remaining clothes so he wouldn't have to wait.

At the end of H's email, he noted that both our futures are "uncertain." Huh? I'm losing my home, my house, my marriage, my family, and have no salaried job. He has two incomes (OW has $$$$ without working), a house, and a warm body next to him at night. What's uncertain?

Anyway, it's not much of a Plan A -- a B+ really -- but I did not throw flames, anyway.