AM, it sounds like you handled this with poise, and dignity. I think you are justified to ask that he move his things when the kids are not there, and think it's appropriate to set a boundary about not having OW's clan in your home.

Good job!

I think my day was good. Actually it started with last night... which went well. But all day even tho I spent many hours "fretting", I did not bring up any relationship talk or issues with H. I was pleasant, we actually had a nice convo that lasted a record-setting 20 min or so. All pleasant. I wrote my H a letter today. I have not given it to him, I need to wait a few days and be sure it's what I want to say.

But today, surely I avoided LB's and hopefully had a few modest deposits to the love bank. Now I guess I just need, like 70 more days like this? I have trouble being patient. I like results, and I like them now. This is not my kind of project, but I need to do it anyway.

Quick Update for the last couple of days:

I've been running on 4-5 hours' sleep for the last several nights. This isn't good, but without ignoring my W, there isn't much I can do about it.

W seems to be in a very anxious state - thinking about the beginning of the summer semester at the U - signed up for 2 classes - not in her major - thinking about changing major etc. Issues are
1) She doesn't think she wants to work in the field of her current major - so why finish.
2) There are basicly no night classes in her current major - so she would have to use daycare - and doesn't want to.
3) Can't do much with a BA in her current major.

Anyway, she didn't sleep at all last night. She came and talked to me for about an hour at 2 or 3am. I was only half-awake so I didn't really fill any EN's for convo.

Honestly, I can't imagine how she is able to walk around with so little sleep - but on the other hand on most days she gets 2 more hours in the morning after I leave.

As for work, I'm doing just a tiny bit better.

Nothing on diet.

As was pointed out to me (thanks!) most of my efforts have been in the area of DS (domestic support). I do think this effort has an effect - as I have seem W be more affectionate to me - and there has been some SF. Also, she usually sleeps in the room with me or asks me to come to her room.

But, I do think I need to branch out a bit.

One of her other needs is conversation, and I have been filling that need pretty well also - as I spend all my time with her when I am not at work. The thing about DS is that I can do it when she is around while also being available to talk with her.

Last night, I was going to do some outdoor work - but it rained again - and anyway, W asked me to cook dinner - so I did that and cleaned the kitchen too. We were otherwise kindof vegging out for the evening.

The nightbeforelast we had our guests. That went well enough - and I cleaned up afterwards. W didn't notice immediately, but later in the night thanked me for cleaning the kitchen. That night we were up til 3am - so I got about 4 hours of sleep. Not good. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> The guest family included two preschool boys. W and I were later talking about having another child. She is kinda afraid of having a boy - since she is used to being a Mom of a girl. These boys were pretty good, I thought.

Anyway, that night, W called her Mom - after not having talked to her for 2 weeks or so. MIL is in europe so W called her at our 1:30am. After that she had to talk to me for an hour to "process" the convo with her Mom - which left us going to bed after 3am. W has a hard time with her Mom - lots of bad memories, resentments and ongoing issues.

So, I'm not making any great bounds forward right now, but I'm avoiding LB's mostly.

Still, there were a few LB's. I get a little impatient with some of the long conversations which are exactly the same as we have been having for years - especially about the two subjects of W's Mom and W's school and the third W's (girl)friend. I just get tired of hearing the same thing, the same questions, and giving the same answers - which are never helpful and nothing changes. Mostly though I'm doing OK. W LB's me some, and I mostly hold my tongue. Usually, she appologises within the hour.

-AD

AD, glad to see you post, I wondered where you were. You must be running on fumes, with so little sleep.

Don't underestimate how you're doing on meeting her need for convo. As a rule, men think that they are supposed to solve the problem or issue that the W raises; but often, we just need someone to listen. Even though it's the same convo you've had many times before.

Listen, and if you feel the need to offer something, you could ask "is there something I can do to help?" (the answer is probabaly no, but she may say that you are helping by just being willing to listen.)

Peace

Squeak,

Thanks for your comments. I do that - listen without offering anything - but she asks me "What should I do" - especially about the school issue. I think that's whats bothering her right now the most.

-AD

UPdate Lunch :

Lunch was not good.

I went home (without calling). W was in a super-crabby mood. No sleep will do that to you.

She told me "Go to H***" at least twice, and called me a few names too. I didn't react.

I LBed her once - not reacting to the verbal stuff but ...

She started digging in the flower bed. I have been trying to get to that for a week or more now, but the rain has kept me from it. We have heavy clay soil and if you dig it while it's wet, you end up with clods that harden like bricks. Anyway, I have all the peat-moss, sand etc - just need to wait for it to dry a day or two and dig it all in.

W said "I'm just going to dig a hole and stick these plants in there." I said (big LB), well OK, and I'll fix it right later. <sigh> Always the control freak. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> She didn't get too worked up, but quit working on it. She still may plant them this afternoon.

It's just that it was "my" project - and I really do want to do a nice job of it. I don't care if she plants things - just let me prepare the bed first. I was trying to get ahead of her - but she keeps buying bulbs and plants. She bought 9 rose bushes the other nite at 2am at Wal-Mart. They are OK, but I have to prepare yet another place for them - which was planned, but I keep getting further behind. She is more impulsive than I am. Buying a plant is about 5% of the job and she keeps doing that - because it gives her a quick warm feeling - leaving me with the 95% to do. I don't mind doing it, but yearn for the non-rainy-season time to do it.

The first rose bed that I did a month ago is going great. She really likes it. All are blooming well - on their second set of blooms already. I overhear her telling people (her Mom, for example) about them, so I know she likes it. I didn't just buy the plants, dig out two shovels of soil and stick them in. I did it right - from stacked stone raised bed all the way to matching mulch - and it looks great.

Am I grumbling now? Probably.

I've got to find another way than to say "Go ahead and I'll fix it right later." That's a losing approach to anybody.

-AD

AD -- You might want to fill your bosses' LB if he's being so good to you in a period of stress. Maybe a bottle of wine and a card saying how much you appreciate his patience during a time of stress for you? Just a thought...

<small>[ May 22, 2003, 10:05 PM: Message edited by: A.M.Martin ]</small>

Oh strange and wondrous day! My H came over. We sat and spoke. This is the first time in seven weeks, the first time since he moved out.

60 Minutes was not on hand to film this event -- alas!

Apparently he has closed out our joint account (I believe; don't know) and wanted to get my checkbook to balance -- a bit odd, since I could have left it for him at a neutral place, as I did last time. The upshot was that I only had half-an-hour to psychologically prepare for speaking with him face to face for the first time since he shuffled off.

I had the bookcase ready for him to take with him -- so I did not appear to be resisting his moving furniture out. He sent an email earlier in the day saying he absolutely needed the dresser, could ignore the rest. When he came over, I showed him how heavily impacted it was in storage, and he doesn't think that's a problem. He undoubtedly knows more about that than I do. I suggested it be moved when the kids are in school -- I will have to take responsibility since I have rejected his "helper."

Then I asked him to sit down and talk about something. A matter had come up that he could give good advice on, involving third parties we both know. We spoke maybe 20 minutes.

All very neutral, businesslike. Laughed a couple times over neutral stuff. Absolutely no LBs. I apologized for detaining him, if I was. Lots of eye contact; sometimes returned, sometimes not. Absolutely nothing that could be construed as romantic.

Helped him with the bookshelf out to the car. Did not hug him goodbye, or peck on the cheek. He seemed to half expect it. Nothing to suggest I had an ulterior motives in asking for his advice. Nothing to initiate anything.

Well...weird, huh?...what do you think? Hard to believe I ever slept with this guy. It was all so strange.

Public occasion last night in our small community; OW behaved strangely again. They both looked kind of uncomfortable with each other afterwards, but I could be imagining things. I suspect things will become stranger before they become less strange.

A.M.M.

It sounds like you handled things very well with your H. I can't see how you could have done better.

You seem to be really in control of yourself and not driven by emotions.

From my observations on this forum, you have the kind of attitude or character or whatever-it-is that makes it most likely to succeed in recapturing your spouse. There are some people who come here - posting in stream-of-consciousness mode - completely broken – constantly crying etc. I don’t think they have a chance until they get past that phase. There are a few who are cool collected, looking at their situation with a sense of , if not humor, then at least irony – who are, in short, able to think and act on their thoughts rather than their feelings alone. Those few IMHO are the most likely to succeed quickly – and also the most able to cope if they should be unable to save their marriage.

I can’t imagine what it is like to go to a social event and see your H with OW. I couldn’t handle that.

I think I’m halfway between the lying-on-the-floor-crying-screaming and the cold-logical. But, I’ve got an easier case by far. W is with me – has occasional contact with OM – which upsets me sometimes terribly.

Anyway. Well done!

-AD

Update.

Yesterday evening was much better.

I dug part of the flower bed - it's still too wet, but W was about to pop with eagerness to plant. W planted in the newly prepared bed.

W gave D a bath and I put D to bed.

W's friend called (after 2 weeks not calling. Yesterday morning, W was telling me that she fears that her friend is going to marry and she will never hear from her again.)

Friend has interesting situation - 2 BF's who don't know about each other. She's a decent girl - old fashioned. But her long-distance BF (who she had first) has finally woken up to the fact that he is neglecting her - invited her to come (drive 10 hours to) see him and she said "Why?". That seemed to shake him. He said he's going to take a day of prayer and fasting and make up his mind (big of him, don't you think). As I understand it, he will have a free day next week when he can fast and pray all day - meanwhile, he expects his GF to sit quietly and await his report on devine revelation. He will call next Wednesday with his conclusion - proposal or whatever. Meanwhile, local BF is paying as much attention to her as she could wish - as often as she wants. He goes to church with her too. He's "simple" in a good way.

The reason I mention that situation is that it makes my W think - think about her situation. She doesn't respect her friend for letting this go on for 6 months. She told friend to tell LD BF about local BF. I think W's friend should ditch LD BF and tell local BF all. He's the one who's marriage material.

It really is a good parallel. W's OM wanted to be a missionary - or at least that's what he was writing to her about when they first made email contact. Friend's long-distance BF wants to be a missionary too. Friends local BF sees her several times a week - goes to church with her. Just like I did with W.

Anyway, after the phone call (at least an hour), W had to tell me all about it.

We got to bed at midnight (yay! I got 7 hours sleep last night!)

So, after thinking about her friend's situation,
W was asking me about the night when she called me to confess the PA. She wanted to know how it was for me. She thought that I took it pretty calmly. I was in NYC that night. She called after midnight. I checked out of the hotel at 3am and came home on a 6am flight. At least I did that right. I was telling W about it when she fell asleep.

-AD

Thanks, AD, for your optimism. However, the Harleys warn that if a spouse has deep, unresolved "personal problems" that MB may not be able to help. Such is the case here. Most of his problems predate our marriage by decades. There is little I can "do." He had a pornography problem that hit me to the bone for a year preceding the A -- I wish I'd been able to control my reactions better, but I begged him to stop and he refused. The A followed quickly.

He doesn't look well, and he doesn't look happy. There's not much I can do about that.

He told me to "call" when I get the furniture situation sorted out -- odd, because he must know how awkward it is for me to phone into his new "home." That's why I've relied on email. Maybe I'll call. Maybe not. But I'll try to arrange to have furniture delivered to "his" house, so he won't have to enter my home again, at least not for awhile. He's dug his hole, he'll have to undig it. But having him here has put too many thoughts into my head that I can't work with and can't fix.

Seeing them together is more like a bad acid trip. It's weird, and even has its fun side. He's making a complete fool of himself on this one, and that helps. If it were a beautiful, graceful, intelligent, and wise woman, I might feel differently.

We'll see what his next move is.

<small>[ May 23, 2003, 11:55 AM: Message edited by: A.M.Martin ]</small>

AM, there is someone looking for you over at the EN section... a situation like yours?

Today is Friday, and it's been a little rough since Thursday afternoon. Much of it could be in my heart and head, in the way I'm interpreting things. I called my H and told him I loved him. I can't remember the last time I told him that. It was only after I said it, and he said thanks, I'm glad... that I realized how much I needed to hear it from him too. But then he said he loved me too. I did not sleep well, heard noises in the house. Tried without much success to go back to sleep from 1 am to 5:30, then got up, teary eyed, with a lump in my throat. I'm glad he doesn't see this, I don't think it's much of a deposit in the love bank.

I wrote him a letter today. Actually I have been working on it for three days, but today I finalized it, and wrote it out by hand in it's final version. Some of the points:

-that I am still glad I married him. That I love him, want him, need him.
-that only now that we're working on things, do I see how seperate we got, and that I don't want that anymore, that I want him back, all of him. I want to feel loved, secure, cherished; and I want him to feel the same from me.
-that while we have good and bad in our history, that I think the worst is behind us... leaving the best yet to come.
--how glad I am that we're getting help on our marriage, and I think we are unbeatable when we work on something together, we're an incredible team.
--how I want him to be the one to meet my ENs and I want to be the one to meet his.
--how even tho building new habits is awkward, that I'll do it anyway-- and it's getting easier
--how the things he's working on have touched my heart and reminded me how important he, and his love, are to me.

I am going to leave it for him at a time when he will have privacy to read it. I hope I have done a good job with the letter. I pray there are no LBs in there.

I guess I am nervous about how he will react, but I will try not to have expectations. I just want to make sure that I get those points across, without getting sidetracked, without crying, etc so that he gets the message.

We are supposed to have feedback tonight, and to go to dinner at a sweet little Italian restaurant. I am getting my nails and toes done, specially for this "date".

I hope that things go well.

Squeak, AD -- Thanks for the heads-up, I posted to godhelpme on other thread.

Where is everybody?

Hey AM, I'm here. Odd, though-- at least one message I posted here is gone. System glitch, maybe?

No real progress for me since Friday. Actually, I had a nuclear meltdown on Saturday, uncontrollable sobbing, just awful. Somehow, this brought about H talking more honestly to me, about how he has had doubts over the years, about our marriage. He kept this to himself, even when we started C, I figured we could make it work-- he was very unsure, probably pessimistic. He says I have not supported him in pursuing his interests and dreams... tho he admits he doesn't know what they were, or are. And he knows I've asked...

First I was unbearably hurt, and physically ill. Now I seem to be switching to "righteous indignation". I'm trying hard to act normal, and am NOT sharing what's going on right now, as I feel sure it would NOT be helpful. I feel he has betrayed me, obviously has not been open and honest with me. I'm wondering now if there is really a basis for going forward. But I'm thinking a lot, praying a lot, and not saying much. I'm faking I guess. He's acting normal... I guess since it wasn't "news" to him, why would he act or feel differently?

The hard part is that we are on a trip, (one that was to be a highlight of the year for me-HA) and are in tight quarters. I hope I can control my thoughts, etc well enough to conduct myself well. If needed, I will simply let him know I need some time, and I'll take the car, and drive & cry.

Hard day for me, too. Saw OW and H tonight. She looks very happy. They were co-hosting an event, as if they were man and wife. It was perhaps wishful thinking on my part to imagine he is waking up.

It's really time for me to throw in the towel. I need to take my daughter and move out of town. I need to find a job -- elsewhere -- and begin a new life.

Hard day for me, too. Saw OW and H tonight. She looks very happy. They were co-hosting an event, as if they were man and wife. It was perhaps wishful thinking on my part to imagine he is waking up.

It's really time for me to throw in the towel. I need to take my daughter and move out of town. I need to find a job -- elsewhere -- and begin a new life.

<small>[ May 27, 2003, 11:42 AM: Message edited by: A.M.Martin ]</small>

AM, I'm sorry you had such a hard day. Don't make a big decision, in a hurry. You could be totally right, that you should throw in the towel and move away. But, I won't hurt anything to promise yourself that you won't do it for 30 days. Don't be rash, OK?

Hang tough.

I keep realizing, one way or another, my life is changing and I am going to start a new "phase" this year. I don't know what it will be-- it could be on my own, or it could be in a marriage that is "redesigned". Either way, change is scary, and either way, it's not something I can avoid.

Your life is going to change to. Think about the options, but don't pick one yet.

Update:

I haven't updated in a few days, so I'll catch up here.

My general impression is that I'm slipping. Slipping back into some lazy habits. I can't believe it's been 25 days.

1) My work is still not going well. This is vital. I can't let is slide forever. I don't want to blow the goodwill of my employer.

2) Nothing on diet. No real plan. No change of habit.

But most importantly, I'm slipping on LB's and meeting EN's. I'm not being proactive - but instead am just waiting for my W's cue and trying to follow it.

W has been under a lot of stress lately due to the start of the summer term at the U. She signed up for a couple of classes and is extremely anxious about it. When she looks at her transcript for the last 4 years, well, she's not too happy. She took one class last semester and made an A - for the first time in a a long time.

So, she hasn't been sleeping - and has been very irritable - which makes it hard (ok, impossible) not to LB. Everything I do or say can be an LB sometimes.

So, now I need to be at work early, and home at early - so she can make it to her 5pm class. Seems simple enough.

Yesterday I messed up. W went to class. I had the 2-year-old. We gooffed around the house for a while then walked to the park. 2-year-old wanted to ride in the stroller. That was a surprise. She just climbed into it, so away we went. I knew W would be on her way home soon, so I was looking out for her while 2-year-old was on the swings. Ok, so W came, saw us, parked.

I forgot to change the diaper. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

So, I was in the dog house. I usually take care of that, but I guess with the change of schedule etc. I just forgot... W called me a child abuser (for letting the child have such a wet diaper). Ouch!

I expected an hour-long diatribe about that - but W could see that I was hurt and holding my tongue and she kept it short.

That's the kind of thing I should never forget. It's a sign that I'm slipping badly.

Actually, with W's anxious state the last week or so, it's been really hard to do what's right, but the little things still matter and I shouldn't have missed that one for sure.

Last weekend (long) we had ups and downs. There some good points, but there were a few blowups too. Mostly, I held my tongue and avoiding LBing her - and it paid off with quicker recoveries from the blowups.

So, I've got to refocus, get my job done today, never LB, meet some EN's - the usual stuff.

It could be a lot worse.

-AD