Topie, it seems you know me well, as that was exactly what I was trying to say in my post. I feel like Spacecase does as well, that in the case of such a significant award, a serious approach towards recognition might have come across as more sincere and maybe led to a productive exchange where both parties could have come away with some postive feelings about the other.

I also mean no harm or bad feelings but it pains me to see this board ,which was a lifesaver to my marriage, become a place where people are reluctant to shed a light on the other side of things or to be the devil's advocate.Support is great but sometimes we need a kick in the pants more than we need support. It's really hard to be objective when we are hurting, sometimes impossible. I just know that if I had cast my H in the role of the "bad guy" and went along depressed and negative I wouldn't have the wonderful marriage I have today. I'd like to see everyone here get to where my H and I are today. I know that, that doesn't come without some pretty painful objectivity. I am eternally grateful for the people here who at times posted what I didn't want to hear, because it helped me to see that there was much I needed to change in my way of thinking if I were to ever get to the point of rebuilding a destroyed marriage. All the best to everyone and forgive me, but I will never stop being that "other" voice that posts the often unpopular view.

Oh and by the way, I have follwed Jen's story for the months and months she's been here. Just because one doesn't post often, doesn't mean they haven't been following a particular situation.

<small>[ May 13, 2003, 09:56 PM: Message edited by: mthrrhbard ]</small>

Sure I could've said something more serious. If there's one thing I've learned this year, it's to think before I speak, and to carefully weigh my words. I didn't this time I guess. You caught me. Can't go back and change it now though. So let's let it go already.

JB

Oh and by the way, I have follwed Jen's story for the months and months she's been here. Just because one doesn't post often, doesn't mean they haven't been following a particular situation.

Thanks for clearing that up to me. I wouldn't have known by reading your posts.

Jen

Sorry to drop in and add my 2p's worth, but what were you instead meant to say?

"H, I am so very proud of you for the award you got, especially as you were nominated by OW, and choose not to invite me to be part of such a special occassion" OK, my tongue is firmly in my cheek, but I think a light upbeat approach, well, I think if I was in your position, I would have said something pretty similar to you.

I also think that whilst we are all here because we believe in building our Ms, some M's (and I'm not specifying which), are clearly not capable of being recovered. wELL, Mine in fact <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> but hey, I'm still here, posting, trying to support others in their efforts.

I do however believe that at times, FWS (and Jen, you and I are very much FORMER WS,) should not just accept certain behaviour from our now WS (former BS). This does hang back to the "do you want to be right or do you want to be married" issue, but there has to be a balance between preserving our self respect and they way we interact with our H's rather than just accepting that anything they do or say is acceptable because they were originally the injured party (and I am not lessening that pain in anyway)....

Anyway that is just my VHO, and I never proclaim to be an expert about anything. I also think you are right about not knowing what your H thought. None of us are mind readers.

What do you plan to do next Jen. You were talking again about Plan B? Is it time yet or not? Whatever you decide to do Jen, I support YOU whole-heartedly as someone (like myself), who has done everything possible to right our wrongs, change our very being, address our issues, and stand up and be counted.

Take care of yourself Jen.

Lisa

Jen

You OK tonight? Well, maybe it's not your tonight yet.... Dang the time difference thingy, off to bed <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Lisa

Thanks for checking on me Lisa. I'm doing okay. What am I going to do next? Well, for the time being, I am not going to reach out to my H, he can reach out to me if and when he has it in him. I know that's not really plan B, but it's what I have in me right now. I am going to see a couple of lawyers Friday to find out what to do about filing for Dv. I can actually imagine myself going to see my H at the 1 year mark (that's in 2 weeks), requesting that he sit down and talk with me, and ask him what he wants after all this time to think about it.

As a few people have pointed out to me, if he says he doesn't know still, he's probably just not being honest with himself, or maybe just isn't willing to say what he really wants. Saying he's confused or undecided is just a way for him to justify his behaviour - keeping me at arm's length, but coming to me now and again for SF. Either he wants to be with me, but doesn't want to go through (or is afraid to go through) all the effort that entails, OR he wants to leave me but is tiptoeing b/c he is afraid of how much it will hurt me and his family for us to Dv. If he says he is still undecided, I'm almost tempted to say to him that means you don't want to be with me then, doesn't it? And then I may just tell him to either decide he wants to be with me, and start working on it wholeheartedly, or we should part ways, and I'll even file for Dv.

But this is all just me speculating right here on the spot. It's not all thought out. I know it doesn't sound like "marriage building", but it's where I'm honestly at. I can't build a marriage alone. I also can't be treated like a lesser person than my H for the rest of my life, and put up with his female friendships, etc.

I caught Dr. Phil today, and a couple of quotes ring in my mind:

1. I'd rather be healthy alone than be sick with someone else.
2. What's right isn't always easy.

I'm not giving up all hope for my H. I still love him very much (or I at least still love the old him, the "illusion" of him very much). I just don't have any optimism left. I don't have it in me to live in limbo much longer. I honestly think one year to figure out if you want to work on the marriage or not is plenty of time.

So that's what is on my mind today.

Jen

<small>[ May 14, 2003, 06:18 PM: Message edited by: Jen Brown ]</small>

Hi Jen,
Just wanted to let you know that I'm following your posts even though I don't reply much.

Perhaps you, Kily, Lisa, and I should start a club of former WS's who want to make it right, but just can't get the forgiveness or willingness of our former partners.

I've known my exHusband for 30 years. We were married for 21 years, and at times I feel like my heart has been torn out. Then I remember that I did it to myself, and the pain is even worse.

Just letting you know I know how you feel, and that life can be so hard but it helps to know that others share in our burdens, and that time does heal, although very, very slowly and yet perhaps not always completely.

Thanks for sharing the quote from Dr. Phil's show...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> What's right isn't always easy.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'd like to put that in bold letters on my exHusband's doorway. However, that is just pure fantasy, I'd never be that way. It would only make him think I'm some sort of witch.

I think the hardest part is accepting that the love we thought we had wasn't really quite what we believed it to be. I took my exH's love for granted, just like the sunshine. I thought I'd have it forever, no matter what I did.

Did you feel that way too? Mine even told me, "I'd rather have you cheat, than get a divorce." I believed the man.

Didn't mean to hijack your thread with my thoughts,just wanted to let you know I'm thinking of you!

TAke care,
H_P

Thanks for posting hopeful_person. It's nice to hear from someone who's been there too. I hear you about the club of FWS who sincerely wanted to make things right, but whose spouses just couldn't forgive us. There aren't very many of us here.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I think the hardest part is accepting that the love we thought we had wasn't really quite what we believed it to be. I took my exH's love for granted, just like the sunshine. I thought I'd have it forever, no matter what I did. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes indeed, I took my H's love for granted. I see that now. I thought, actually WE thought it was so special it could withstand just about anything.

Love is a verb, not just a noun. We have to actively love the people who are important to us, not just accept (or take for granted) that there is supposedly love between us. That's been a tough lesson. Now if only my H would let me love him again.....but he's said that I don't know how to love him. I tried asking him how to love him and he said I should just know. I then told him that he can't go around forever expecting people to "just know" things (that's right up there with thinking our love was so special it could withstand anything), that he has to explain what he needs and wants in order to be happy about how others treat him. I don't know if he was really listening when I said that, but he needs to realize that to be happy with me or with anyone else.

Thanks again for thinking of me h_p! You take care too!

Jen

Jen,

I also posted to you on the in recovery board... I am not considering myself in recovery, but getting there, and I am at 20 months.

My advice if you are interested is... if you want your M, do not file for a D. Period. It kind of sounds like you want your M to me.

Maybe you should get in Icounseling, if you are not already, perhaps christian if you cannot afford the Harleys.. or some sort of divorce busting solution oriented therapy.

Anyway, I hate to see you in pain. I don't know your full story as I have been on my own roller coaster and have not fully kept up.

I do think it takes almost 2 yrs if not more to get over the pain of affairs. I think long recovery processes can be quite common.

I also think that considering your h just lost his dad, I think that is right?- your situation has got to be an extra sensitive one.

This is just my humble opinion. If I were you I would not give up.

From your posts, you seem very hurt and in pain. I understand completely, and it is totally normal to feel so much at a time like this, and to be confused... hey, I still am.

The more I know, the less I know.

I do think if you continue to try.... by not lbing, and by being more distant.. you will probably attract your h. It sounds to me like the two of you love each other, but hey, what do I know?

I would do plan a with distance.... that has been working well for me.

Also if your h has drinking issues, I would try attending alanon.

Also, I would try to cut out the sf. I know it is hard, my h is a cake eater in that department big time. I still enjoyed sf with him, even not long ago.. but as I take away that cake eating privalege, wh is more aware of what he has lost, and he does not have that with me.. if he is not devoted and good to me- make sense?

I know it is a hard, hard road. If you really want your marriage, and from what I have read I think you do... I would not go near a divorce attorneys papers... believe me they will talk you into filing. Divorce attorneys love the money they make doing this for you.

Hugs and hope,

Honey

I'm tired and on my way to bed, so this is just a quick reply to say thanks so much for taking the time to write me such a thoughtful post Honey. I just don't know if I want to risk taking two years to potentially still end up alone...and mad at myself for wasting that time.

Jen