Its been a long time since I posted anything about my relationship with my H. Not that I posted a lot to begin with. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I regret that because I wish I had...maybe I wouldn't be feeling so isolated now.

I'm a real old-timer as you can see from my user number. I found MB right before my husband ran off for six weeks with another woman. I didn't know how badly I needed it until after he came back. That was at the end of 1998. We've been limping along since then. Still together but I wouldn't say we are the poster children for recovery.

Recently we sat down and finally went through the LB and EN questionaires together(I know...should have happened a LONG time ago..beleive me I tried) and throught he course of the discussion a lot of things came out that have had me feeling like I don't know the man I'm married to. I thought the infidelity in 1998 was the only time he had strayed. Apparently I was deluded and the first three years we were married he went with prostitutes at least twice, had flings on the 'net, and had an almost threesome with some people he met on the net.

One of the prostitutes was a set up by two guys I thought were our friends <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> My H went with them for a convention and they sent this woman to my H's room as a present! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> We had been married for less than a year at that point.

My H admits he has a sexual addiction problem but doesn't want to go to SAA meetings because he doesn't believe in a higher power and it would be hypocritical of him to try to do the 12 steps. I feel like this is a cop out. I will give him credit that in the last few years he has behaved himself and hasn't acted out other than looking at porn. Which I'm not crazy about but he is a grown up and makes his own choices. I can't control him.

I suppose this is really just a vent because I'm just grieving the loss of what I thought our marriage was before the OW came on the scene. Now I know that I was living in denial or just ignorance for the first three years and that hurts. I resent it that I feel so used. I resent feeling like there is something wrong with me that he would do that.

Some will say leave him. I have thought about it. His infidelities are in the past though and there are a lot of positives in our relationship (believe it or not). He is always getting better at meeting my ENs. I'm just worried about me since I know about all that went on I have felt distanced...I find myself extremely attracted to a friend of ours. I'm fighting it tooth and nail because I know it is wrong. This friend is married with three small children and I wouldn't want to put them all through this for anything in the world. Not that this guy would be attracted to me anyway since I'm very overweight. Not going to even go there...not a good train of thought.

I wish I could say uneqivically say we are a success story but since a lot of the time I feel like we are just coexisiting I don't feel I can make that statement. Yes, we are still together after the infidelity. Yes, things are better on several counts. However its been four and half years and I'm still hurting and feeling like the rug got pulled out from under my feet. I look at him sometimes and hate him. I want that feeling to go away. He is remorseful and I don't want to punish him for the rest of our lives together.

I guess its time to work on forgiveness again. For those of you who have read this far, thanks. This board is a shoulder to cry on and a God-send because I can't go to my family with this. My sisters would crucify him for hurting the baby of the family.

thanks for listening...VL

Hey, if I don't remember you, can I respond anyway?

Still together but I wouldn't say we are the poster children for recovery.

Wellll, technically, you're not in recovery. You're in post-affair coexistence. Being in recovery requires a couple of conditions be met first.

Honesty and Accountability

Eliminating love busters... which includes annoying habits and independent behaviors... things that one or the other of you does that the spouse finds offensive or objectionable... like say... porn(?!)

Becoming experts at meeting each other's most important EN's (and making it pleasant for each other to do that)

Spending at least 15 hours a week giving each other your undivided attention AND meeting the needs of RC, Aff, Conv, and SF.

And most importantly the foundation of MB: Creating a lifestyle that is good for both of you at the same time by following the Policy of Joint Agreement : Never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement between you and your spouse.

Until you agree to live by those sorts of standards and work toward (no one does it perfectly) you really aren't in recovery.

a lot of things came out that have had me feeling like I don't know the man I'm married to. I thought the infidelity in 1998 was the only time he had strayed. Apparently I was deluded and the first three years we were married he went with prostitutes at least twice, had flings on the 'net, and had an almost threesome with some people he met on the net.

WOW!!! He shared that with you? I'm impressed. Most will do everything they can to take that info with them to the grave. Of course that doesn't make you feel any better about all of it. But it does speak to his desire to come clean and do the right thing.

One of the prostitutes was a set up by two guys I thought were our friends <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> My H went with them for a convention and they sent this woman to my H's room as a present!

And these two "friends" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> are no longer a part of your lives?

My H admits he has a sexual addiction problem but doesn't want to go to SAA meetings because he doesn't believe in a higher power and it would be hypocritical of him to try to do the 12 steps.

Mmmm..... lots of folks who do 12 steps are not into religion or god or goddess for that matter. But I think all 12 step groups talk about a Higher Power can be whatever it means to you. And for some it is simply the energy and connection that is created with group member.

Having said that, it is possible to recover without a group. Some people do really well in them. My mom is one of them. She did AlAnon for years, and ACOA I think. Now me.... the whole group thing makes me grind my teeth and gives me a headache!! LOL So if your hubby is not a group type it doesn't mean that he can't do an excellent recovery program on his own. But, it's not going to happen while he's looking at porn.

I can't control him.

Certainly you can't. But you have a right, and an obligation, to let him know how you feel about the things he does and the choices he makes. And in marriage you have the right to ask that your feelings be taken into account when he makes those choices.... It's basic POJA... It takes two eenthusiastic yes votes for anything to happen and only one no vote to veto it. So if you're not enthusiastic about looking at porn, then he shouldn't be doing it. Can't force him to stop, but you need to tell him how you feel.

I resent feeling like there is something wrong with me that he would do that.

Yeah, I know. But he's an addict. It's not about you, it's about being irresistably drawn to something that makes him feel good. It's about him.

Some will say leave him.

I wouldn't be one of those. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I find myself extremely attracted to a friend of ours. I'm fighting it tooth and nail because I know it is wrong. This friend is married with three small children and I wouldn't want to put them all through this for anything in the world.

Alright then.... you've been around long enough, you know the drill. You need to have no further contact with this friend. AND you need to tell your husband about the attraction, letting him know that you will protect him from your weakness. You need to be accountable for your time and whereabouts so that there is no possibility of a secret second life.

I guess its time to work on forgiveness again.

Once you guys are doing a good job of eliminating LBers, meeting needs, and really using POJA I think you'll find the resentment fading and forgiveness will occur naturally.

The other thing you really need to do, and I can't emphasize this enough, is to spend time together meeting needs. If you do everything else and skip this... your marriage cannot and will not recover. Fifteen hours a week, minimum. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

C

Gee, I really should put a post together on this subject, but I can't seem to find a comprehensive way to deal with it.

I view the porn as a primary source of your problems. He is training himself ("habituating himself", in psycho-babble, which I like in this case because it contains the root word "habit") to having sexual experiences that have no real emotional connection. There may be (usually is) a fantasy involved, but all that does is get one in the habit of avoiding reality during sex. Those habits carry over in to one's expectations and relationship with one's wife. So sex with one's wife never becomes what it should be, the main problem being that the man remains emotionally unconnected during sex.

Somehow (and I really think it is God's fault, thank God) on my way to go there and do that, a little voice in the back of my head said: "This is not what I really want. What I want is a REAL sex life with my REAL wife." Unfortunately, that was not possible for a long time, because neither of us knew what we needed to do to get there. We didn't understnd the whole emotional side of sex. "The Sexual Man", by Hart was a help to me in starting to get in touch with that, as was Harleys's whole Emotional Needs concept. Reading "Passionate Marriage", by Schnarch together was helpful to both of us.

One of the insidious things about porn is that it is so much easier to deal with a fantasy instead of reality. Great sex is work, at least at first. Since we are really just starting, I'm not sure if it stays that way. I think as we develop new habits it will be easier. I will say that even if it remains a lot of work, it's worth it.

Hi Jodi (I think...),

I do remember some of your story, although it has 'been a long time'.

I'd just tell you to carefully consider cerri's advice here---she posted pretty much everything I would. I would suggest that you focus on giving him a safe place for honesty, because that'll be critical in dealing with a sex addict. Also, I'd encourage you to consider the phone counseling/coaching with either Steve or Jenn here (888-639-1639), if your husband is willing. They might be able to get you over the hump and on to a true recovery. I also hear that cerri does coaching too---she might be an excellent alternative.

Y'all are awesome and K, I am very impressed you remembered my real name <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Cerri..thanks for responding so quickly...you gave me a lot to think about...such as..

:Honesty and Accountability:

We are really good at this. I've never tried to hide things from him and while he has hidden things in the past we have set our lives up so that it is very difficult for him to lie.

:Eliminating love busters... which includes annoying habits and independent behaviors... things that one or the other of you does that the spouse finds offensive or objectionable... like say... porn(?!):

This is where we fall down. He is very passive aggressive and controlling. His annoying behaviours really drive me up the wall. We have identified most of them and have a plan to overcome them...it has just been difficult not to fall back into old patterns. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

:Becoming experts at meeting each other's most important EN's (and making it pleasant for each other to do that):

His biggest need is SF(big surprise)and I've been finding it difficult to find the energy to fulfill that when he is LB'ing a lot.

:Spending at least 15 hours a week giving each other your undivided attention AND meeting the needs of RC, Aff, Conv, and SF.:

We work together at home so we have a lot of time together. We have the RC down to a T. The other EN are being worked out.

:And most importantly the foundation of MB: Creating a lifestyle that is good for both of you at the same time by following the Policy of Joint Agreement : Never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement between you and your spouse.:

We are working on that. I was telling him about this post and how we should POJA the porn and that I don't like it. His response was a shrug of the shoulders and a sort of well too bad. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
I do know when he is getting SF a lot that the porn usage goes down. I recognise the spiral we get into that makes things go downhill, I am just unsure of what exactly sparks it off. We were doing really well a month ago and then I had a minor illness and it went right back to where we had been.

:WOW!!! He shared that with you? I'm impressed. Most will do everything they can to take that info with them to the grave. Of course that doesn't make you feel any better about all of it. But it does speak to his desire to come clean and do the right thing:

I agree. I was extremely proud of him for telling me because I knew he was ashamed and embarassed about it. I have tried to make it as safe a place as I possibly can for him. I don't yell..I might cry a little but not hysterically. I have told him how proud I am that he told me. Like you said though...it doesn't make me feel any better that it happened..I'm glad that he can come to me and tell me.

:Having said that, it is possible to recover without a group. Some people do really well in them. My mom is one of them. She did AlAnon for years, and ACOA I think. Now me.... the whole group thing makes me grind my teeth and gives me a headache!! :

I'm glad you said that because I think it is possible too. I was in eating disorder groups for a long time and I think they hindered my recovery...I got a lot better after I quit going. I also agree with you that improvement won't happen if he is looking at porn.

:Alright then.... you've been around long enough, you know the drill. You need to have no further contact with this friend. AND you need to tell your husband about the attraction, letting him know that you will protect him from your weakness. You need to be accountable for your time and whereabouts so that there is no possibility of a secret second life.:

:squirm: <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Ok...I confessed. There really isn't a chance of a second life...I would never let it happen. This guy is doing some work for us and the project is almost over. I think I can keep my crush under control for the next two weeks since I am *never* alone with him. After that I doubt we will see him again (he has an extremely busy successfull business)...and if he does call to do something social we will deal with that as a couple.

If things don't improve in a few weeks then I will consider calling either the Harleys or you, Cerri <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Its a really stressful time since we are at the end of remodeling our house and trying to get our home business up and running. My inlaws are coming to visit this weekend and I'm berserk since the house looks like a bomb fell on it! I'm sure all that has a big effect on how I'm feeling.

John, you are right that porn is an insidious way to seek a sexual release with no intimacy. I am just frustrated that he doesn't see it that way. It is an epidemic in our society today <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

K, you are the king of the oldtimers and I'm honored that you posted to me. Like I said above I am considering calling somebody..be it the Harleys or Cerri...my H is really against phone counseling and not overly excited about face to face counseling. We explored a few of the therapists in our area but we live in the country and our options are limited. As I said above I am doing my best to make this a safe place for him to talk and I think if he is willing to tell me all that he has that I must be doing a pretty good job.

It feels better just posting all this because I really don't have anybody to talk to about it. Like I said my family would be furious and one of my sisters would have his hide. My friends are tired of hearing about it and with this new information would probably feel the same as my family. Its been a bumpy ride. So this is a message to all of you in lurkdom...if you have read this far...post...start talking. I wish I had talked more earlier on. I might be farther along in my journey on this road.

a hopefull VL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I think I remeber the name Jodi, but I don't remember your story or your username. I was 'Empty', way back then.

Anyways, I'm sorry that you are still bearing this cross. You will find peace. Hang in there, girl.

Talk more.. yes you need to talk to us, AND help us out with all of the new people when you have time.