Does anyone have any SPECIFIC suggestions for how I can protect myself (especially for the sake of the children) financially while still working on Plan A? Also, it can't be doing anything without H's knowledge from what I understand. (If someone has a different understanding, please share.)

I've been a stay-at-home mother for the past five years. During my previous marriage I felt that I missed out on the baby and preschool years with my older two children. (My present husband adopted them at ages 7 and 4.) I had two more children after getting remarried and continued to work until the youngest turned five months. I actually begged my H to find away for me to be a stay-at-home parent (which was actually the deal when I agreed to have two or three more children -- it was just hard to walk away from the income I was making...) I am grateful to have had the opportunity. If I really felt that I could trust my H, I would continue to be a be a stay-at-home mother/wife. I have church, school, and community efforts to fill my time in addition to the H, children, and home.

With the youngest starting kindergarten in a few months and the turmoil in our marriage, I think I should return to working full-time. I keep having doubts about actually being able to find a job and make a decent income (self-esteem issues perhaps). I'm sure I'll have to update my skills due to my profession. My H is against it. He says the kids need me to be at home. (I even read him stating that in an e-mail to OG (Other Girl -- she's only 19, OW just doesn't fit). According to POJA, I'm not supposed to do something that he's not fully behind. He states unequivocably that I should not go back to work. he says there is no money for me to take some classes to update my skills. He got mad the other day when he say me updating my resume and checking out job websites. I shared my fears with him. He said to drop it that he would never divorce me. My trust factor is too low I guess. I so want to trust him, but he hasn't even made it for a week without an e-mail to OG. (He still maintains that it wasn't PA, wasn't EA even, but that it might have been leading to PA... it's over, he says. Last contact with OG was last Tues. when he was in Phoenix on business. She's in CA; were in FL. The e-mail was about arranging a possible one-nighter while he was there. It supposedly didn't go thtough. I have no proof either way. Just his word, which of course I want to believe.)

I know this leaves me incredibly finanically vunerable, even longterm. From reading so much here on this website, it seems almost hopeless to be able to count on having a faithful spouse who will honor his or her marital commitment. It appears that it is really the W who gets the short end of the deal financially if they themselves were not working (surely there are exceptions to this). My H has always controlled the money, even when I was working. I let him for two reasons. After 4 years of single parenthood and constantly juggling to keep it all together -- which I did -- when my present H and I got married, I owned a home, with mtg, and a late model car out-right and had no other debt at all -- he was doing well and getting ready to buy his first house when we met. Both decent financial shape but not particularly wealthy. The second reason was that I just didn't want to confront him about money. He thinks he is always right about what to do with it and has never thought I should have much input. He's the man. In an effort to be a submissive wife, I quietly allowed him to assume the money manager role. It was easier.

(In my divorce before this marriage, I walked away from all the money, even against the advice of the attorney. I was so afraid of my exH. He was so angry, violent -- a rageful alcoholic. I left while pregnant with the second child after he threw me through a glass window. I was 25 years old. I just wanted to be safe and have my oldest two children, babies really, to be safe. Even though I'd worked and contributed, he made more money. He took the profit, 50,000, from the sale of the house, and both late model vehicles, plus furniture and sports equip. he sold most of it. Then surprise, he left the state and his creditors came after me because they could find me. He'd forged my name on tons of stuff with his girlfriend who worked at this bank where he got loans. It took me years to get clean of it financially. Thank God --seriously I do thank Him -- I had a good job then.)

But if anything happens this time, I don't have a pot, so to speak, no personal savings, no credit card in my name, nothing. The vehicle isn't even in my name. I have no idea what my credit looks like. I'm almost 40 and I'm so nervous. My H always refers to his retirement, not ours.

Someone suggested a book titled, "Think Single," so something like that. Is anyone else familiar with it. Yes, I'm reading the material I'm supposed to be reading in order to save this marriage. And it may well survive. This has just been a wake up call. For so long, I've thought of my H as my white knight, now I see he's just human afterall. I'm still and individual who needs to take care of herself and her future. There can be an I and a We at the same time, right? Also, I need to do this in and honest way with my H so I can be truthful to our agreement. I guess H is concerned that I'll just get my ducks in a row and then bolt. He says my pattern is to run away. We've been married 9 years.

I usually tend to lurk nowadays instead of posting, but your situation seems so similar to what mine was. The only difference is that I have NEVER had a job, no job skills and no work history.

The first thing that caught my attention was that I see that you ALWAYS look to your H for answers.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I actually begged my H to find away for me to be a stay-at-home parent -------- He's the man. In an effort to be a submissive wife, I quietly allowed him to assume the money manager role. It was easier.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The second thing I noticed was that you said this......

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">According to POJA, I'm not supposed to do something that he's not fully behind. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is not true.
You are not supposed to make any decisions....either one of you....unless BOTH of you are behind it 100%.

Now.....what about what YOU want? You want a job.....he doesn't want you to get one. He might have a point if you have one going into Kindergarten......but once they are all in school full time then there would be no reason for you to at least get a part time position somewhere.

YOU cannot let HIM tell you what you can and cannot do. It's not up to him to make that final decision. It's up to BOTH of you.

Another reason for you to get a job.
You posted that he said he would NEVER divorce you......BUT....what if you decide that YOU have had enough and you decide you cannot put up with his behaviour any longer.

He's obviously comfortable with the situation he is in right now. He's totally convinced that YOU aren't going anywhere. You are his safety net. Been there.

Why? Because you have let him have all the control all the time. Did the same thing myself.

People treat you the way YOU allow them to treat you.

My advise to you. Do what's right for you.

Know one reason he doesn't want you to get a job? Because then he'd have to WONDER !

Jessme, you haven't given him anything to think about. You're right there, nothing's changed and perhaps he's even getting better treatment than before he started cheating. Why should he do anything different? He certainly has no powerful motivators to entice him to do anything different than he's doing. He has no consequences to his cheating behavior.

If you worked, he'd have to wonder about a number of things. He'd have to wonder if you might actually leave him for the incredible amount of hurt he's caused (biblically allowed, and I'll get to the biblical view of "submission" in a bit). He'll also have to wonder if you just might be able to make it financially, on you own. Oh, and he also might find himself wondering if other men are now finding you attractive and if you are ready to just be done with the pain and his games and move on. Having to seriously wonder about all of those variables sure will put a damper on the fantasy land he's in now. Plan A is improving YOU! It looks like getting a job,even part-time (full time right in the middle of this mess could be more added stress than you want to consider) would be a great Plan A behavior.You will be a better you for doing it, regardless of the outcome of your marriage, and that is what Plan A is all about.

Now about "submissiveness". Biblically it doesn't mean that we shouldn't ever question our H's decision making and should be ok with whatever decision he makes. This is especially true in important matters that effect the whole family. You're input isn't optional in any matter that has a direct impact on you or your kids, it's mandatory.If your H is being a Godly husband then his decision making will reflect his focus on the Lord, and you'd be more than obliged to be submissive. There is NOTHING good that can come out of you being uninformed about the financials of your family. If nothing good can come from it, it certainly isn't of the Lord.

A submissive wife is one who looks out for the best interests of her husband. She is one who takes all of her resources and, understanding the unique opportunity of femininity, uses them to bless her husband. Sometimes that means firmly reminding him about God's ways. This kind of active submission benefits the husband, even when he cannot immediately see it. You will most benefit your husband if you remain steadfast to God's Word. Understand that trying to teach or instruct your H about how wrong his A is, will only serve to drive him further away. You can't tell him with words, you have to show him with actions. It is soo wrong what he is doing that you cannot sit by and watch and do nothing. Give him something to think about, get that job and then there will be a consequence to his behavior. It's to his BENEFIT, that a positive action on your part get him to START thinking about what he actually has to lose. Interesting how he sounds like he doesn't want or intend to lose a single thing. It's not to his benefit that he continue in sin. SO use your resources ,Jessme. Listen to the Lord, he's given you the "get a job" idea for a good reason.

Thank you for replying. I sincerely appreciate your suggestions. I think you're both right; he hasn't had to face much of a consequence for his A or whatever it is. (He says it isn't an offical A since he didn't sleep with her supposedly -- or at least I can't prove that he has. The intent to sleep with her was clear whether it happened or didn't, based on e-mails I read where they were setting up meeting places/times.)

Plan A doesn't seem to indicate that we as the BS are supposed to force any "consequences" on the WS. My intrepretation of Plan A is to basically just be nice and to work on your spouses's ENs. Also, Plan A indicates that we should be taking care of ourselves. Perhaps I've misunderstood something. Could it be that POJA doesn't apply during Plan A? Is it possible that the BS is supposed to follow the POJA whether the WS is or isn't following it? (That would of course lead to the BS being a "doormat" or something like one.)

POJA reads: The Policy of Joint Agreement -
Never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement between you and your spouse.

Since my H broke the agreement of NC by e-mailing with the OG (OW? whatever), which is also against the POJA, does that entitle me to also break the POJA?

The thing is that my H is not in enthusiastic agreement about me working. How do I reconcile this? (He is now in a renewed agreement of NC with the OG for the last week. Also, H is not supposed to view any online porn as part of the POJA -- the viewing of porn is part of what I think has led him into the A thing, he doesn't agree with that, he thinks he went looking for the A due to my "deceitful behavior" of having a secret credit card that I used to buy things for the kids without discussing the items with him. My Mom was giving me a little money each month to pay on the card. She was joint on it. She got it for me years ago so that I wouldn't have to consult him for every little thing while I was not working. He was furious upon discovery and has insisted on paying the balance himself. I am not to spend a dime with discussing it with him first. I am to follow a budget and "live within our means" on what he makes. I've been following this since the beg. of Dec. even on Christmas presents. So now you can weigh my "indiscretion" or "deceit" against his...)

I'm trying now to learn the Plan A; I can't say I've put it into practice fully since I don't fully understand it all.

Thank You Again for Your Suggestions. JessMe

After reading your dilemma, I understand your concern. I am not a stay at home mom, but I have tried to be the perfect little "Christian" wife and be submissive, but it only caused more problems. In my submissiveness, I became resentful and I was the one who messed up. I put of with years of emotional and psychological abuse and even more so now. If I didn't have the skills and education I have, I would feel trapped, but I don't. I let his words and actions trap me. Don't let that happen to you. I suggest you read Proverbs 31 and meditate on that Word. A virtuous woman is described as one who not only takes care of her family, but is a great business woman herself. That has been my rock the last few months. The Bible also says to submit one to another and as others have suggested, decisions are to be made TOGETHER. I agree totally. For too long, I thought it was my "wifely duty" to do whatever and act however I was told. I advise you to seek Godly counsel and try to get him in on it with you.

The purpose of Plan A is to negotiate the end of the affair and no contact. Your husband had done those things you cannot really agree to the terms of continuing your marriage. Right now, in many ways, you do not have a marriage. You have a husband who is doing his own thing.

Until your husband agrees to follow MB concepts, ends the affair, establishes no contact and starts working on the marriage there is no POJA. It makes no sense to use the concepts only some times and not when one spouse does not want to.

I was not able to figure out that ages of your children so I may be wrong here.. but if you work would you be able to earn enough money to cover the new expenses that would be required? The fact of the matter is that your husband is not following any of the MB rules.. care, protection, time or radical honesty. Without those POJA does not work. At this point you are the only one looking out for the best interests of yourself and your children. In order to protect your children I would see an attorney and make sure you do what ever is legally available.

It's not about "forcing" consequences, it's about not "saving" him from the natural consequences that come from having an A. When one cheats on a spouse the natural consequence is that you just might end up losing that spouse, trust is gone, etc. You, as the result of H's A, must protect yourself, emotionally, financially etc that's what I mean about H having to face the consequences. It's a lot different than "punishment" which is not a part of Plan A at all. Plan A sometimes feels like you are being a doormat but in no way does it mean you become one. If you have not read Survivng an Affair then you should and also read everything on the site about Plan A and B. Zorweb is absolutely correct , POJA does not apply in your situation. Another must read is James Dobson's "Love Must be Tough". Go over to the recovery forum and read the thread on the submissive wife. One of the first few posts on the thread has some very biblically sound instruction on what it means to be a submissive wife.

Thank you again. Those of you who post often have very helpful input, and it has been especially nice to feel somehow "backed up" by others.

I haven't shared what's been going on with my close friends mostly because I don't want to shade how they see my H if we continue being married. It would be unnessary baggage in my opinion. When my H's sister was cheated on by her husband, right after the birth of their third child -- he looked up an old GF on Classmates.com and did the deed with her while W was sleeping after giving birth -- the same night! My MIL told everyone in the family about what he did... Then my SIL and her H worked things out and seem to be doing well, he goes to AA, etc., they're third and youngest child just turned 4. Yet everyone, my H included, acts like he's dirt because of his A. I wonder if my MIL would be so keen to share what her son's been up to... not I wouldn't tell her. If my SIL could forgive her H, then those who love her should be able to also. Anyway, I've seen how destructive it can be once everyone knows about an A.

This forum seems safe to me even though I know my H is now looking at it. (I'm glad, I think he's getting to see the danger of As -- even simple little online As or EAs, etc. -- and realizing that what he's done is dishonoring his marriage -- and yet, it doesn't have to be over -- lots of those who post here have stories of recovery. They don't make it look easy but they show it can be done!

Feeling more brave today, I was able to calmly tell my H that I need to be able to feel financially safe. That not doing so would be imprudent of me under the latest cicumstances. I assured him that I'm not planning to leave him but that I need to get a job or be prepared to get a job for myself. His A (online, EA, whatever) has damaged my ability to feel secure right now, and finanical security is my no. 2 EN. I will continue to work on meeting his ENs but that H needs to accept that the consequences of his dalliance is that I feel unable to trust him to solely provide for me/children. Perhaps I will be able to trust him in that respect at a later date but not at this moment. He will need to accept this as the consequence of his behavior.

And his comments such as me working isn't the best thing for the little ones, I just have to reply that it is for me that I need to feel secure in order to make them feel secure. I hope that isn't an LB. He doesn't seem to be taking it that way, even though he seems to act like he's losing me. There is some romance seemingly blossoming between us just since I've been taking up this stance and being honest about what I need in order to feel on an equal footing. Perhaps I wasn't be a full partner and that was part of our problem. Time will tell.

I want to especially thank zorweb and ask if zorweb while check-out or post to Lisa0705 thread on Just Found Out. The thread is titled, "Husband cant stop seeing her." Zorweb has been helpful to me and I think could be helpful to Lisa0705.

Thanks.

Jessme,

Glad I’ve been able to help. This site helped my husband and me two years ago after d-day. He posted here a lot that first year.

And his comments such as me working isn't the best thing for the little ones, I just have to reply that it is for me that I need to feel secure in order to make them feel secure. I hope that isn't an LB.

When you can, in a non-love busting way, you may want to point out to your husband that his actions are tearing his family apart. That is certainly not the best thing for the little ones. I wish there was a way to shake some sense into people when they enter into the ‘fog’ of infidelity. What you told him is not a love buster. It’s you taking care of things you have to take care of. He has to realize that from your point of view, it appears he has at least one foot outside the marriage. You have no other choice. What you did is not a love buster as long as you were respectful and avoided disrespectful judgments.

he seems to act like he's losing me.

He is loosing you.. actually he is pushing you away. This is his doing not yours. So keep strong. For one thing men do not like weak women.. if a woman appears weak, the man will walk all over her.

Sounds like you are doing as well as you can under the circumstances. I am proud of you…. It took a lot of strength and class to be able to tell him that you are going to protect yourself and your children. Many people can never bring themselves to that point in Plan A. Hang in there.

I’ll check in on Lisa0705

Let me point out one thing to you Jessme. I quit one of my part time jobs about a year after the A ended. I now have much more time to plan A. (of course with a new baby, I've had to reallocate my time). Taking on a job will only spread you thinner. I guess that's easy for me to say considering that we are in an excellent recovery, and I do still have one part time job. Plus my father could always employ me even though his line of work is not real desirable. Do you have any backups like this? I also have a wealthy sister that would bail me out of a tight spot. I'd never want to ask her to, but she's another "backup plan" that gives me peace of mind. Working can be expensive - we are actually just as "well off" with me being home more as we were with me working the additional 3 days. My H likes a clean house, now I have time to clean it (no more cleaning lady, and warm fuzzies for him because he feels like our home is more traditional now - he feels more important with his "primary bread winner role". Like he's fulfilling his duty). Little things like that can make a difference to a man. It really looks like your marriage is still in the fragile "foggy" realm. My personal recommendation would be to get the marriage/affair problems worked out before taking on another responsibility that is only going to take away from your recovery efforts.

JMHO

You say he acts like he's losing you. That's because you're being strong and as you put it "prudent". You've given him some things to "wonder" about and that's a very good thing. You have interjected some reality into his fantasy. Having an A does have consequences. You've done a great job getting that across without lovebusting!

Yes, a job will be one more thing on your plate, but it doesn't have to be full time and you don't have to keep it if your H decides it's his marriage that he wants. One thing for sure is that it makes him have to think more about what he's giving up and what effects his actions are having on his family as a whole. Hang in there, you are doing just fine!

Reading mthrrhbard’s post brought something to mind….

Another reality that your getting a job (even part time) will introduce into this is childcare. I’m guessing that right now you do most, if not all of it. House work too. He is going to have to pitch in more. After all if he looses you he will loose your help in many things. A good dose of reality is the best thing for an affair.

<small>[ June 05, 2003, 03:15 AM: Message edited by: Eleonora ]</small>