Hi all,

My update: Feeling stronger than ever, and ready to move to plan B, I asked my H to move out 2 weeks ago.

He has had 2 affairs, the last one a serious EA, and is still in a deep fog, and wants only cake, and sits on the fence daily. He won't commit to our marriage, or promise be faithful.

That being said, I did a good plan A for over 6 months, and amazingly many of our issues have improved alot. Communication is better, SF great, and we are getting along like partners, in a way we never idd before. and yet...he still says: not in love with me, not attracted ot me, cannot commit, does not want to work on getting closer to me, won't make any promises.

So, time to follow up a good plan A with a plan B. I was ready.

It will be very hard, like Kily and others say, to do a strict plan B due to the 3 small kids issues. Our life is so logistics-based. I will do my best to not depend on him, but the talk over kids will be impossible to avoid.

We had planned to do a couple of camping trips this summer. They are all booked, with other families etc, and I cannot do this kind of thing alone, (long drives, stuff galore...) with 3 kids under 7. There is nobody else that can come with me, also we made these plans with other families who are counting on us. I want to still go, with H and the kids. SHould I???? I know H will LOVE it...major cake eating! What could be nicer that hanging out on the beach in Cape COd, with friends and a bunch of kids? nothing.

I cannot bear the thought of cancelling that trip, and the other plans we made. If i do, there will be no other outing for the boys this summer! They are counting the days! Also, I don't want to ban their dad from their holiday. It takes 2 parents to do this holiday with the kids.

The other thing is that I definately do not want to go on the trips with H if he starts seeing OW or anyone else. He has made no promises....so I do not know what to do???? help!

I can't exactly say: you can come on the trips as long as you don't see anyone...can I??? Should I be doing that in plan B??

Anyone with advice???

This is hard. My plans for my kids for the summer are at stake.

First & most importantly, did you send a Plan B letter?

I want to still go, with H and the kids. SHould I???? I
Not if you are in Plan B. It's one thing having to communicate because of the children, but joint vacations are out.

Also, I don't want to ban their dad from their holiday. It takes 2 parents to do this holiday with the kids.
If you get divorced are you going to invite him along too?

I can't exactly say: you can come on the trips as long as you don't see anyone...can I???
In Plan B, you do not tell him what he can/cannot do about anything.

This is hard. My plans for my kids for the summer are at stake.
No one said it would be easy. But divorce is 1000 times harder.

Eleanor,

Chris and I have been here a very long time and doing this a very long time. ALONE. I don't recall a single day that this has been easy.

Your just going to have to do it alone. Yes I understand that you have 3 children under the age of seven. That is alot of responsibility.

Chris didn't have the option of having his W around when she picked up and left him with their daughters and moved 2000 miles away. But Chris still took very good care of his daughters. If I remember, they were either in sports or had lots of extra-curicular activities and he put them first. He learned to play the guitar and has the utmost respect of his girls, for being Mr. Mom and Dad.

I had, when my W left two children under the age of 6 (a 6 and a barely 4 y/o, boys). I still took them camping and we still do everything that we can possibly do, without her of course. But that has been her choice.

I didn't have the option of having my W around when she picked up and left me with the boys and moved 300 miles away.

One month after my W left the first time, I took our 2 boys camping alone and we roughed it for 3 days with my German Shepard and her 3(three), 7 day old puppies.

My W and Chris' W pretty much plan B'd us, of sorts. We didn't have the contact, the support, the help that your H and many other BS, have, being in the same town. Although neither is a blessing, I'm just trying to say, its going to be hard. I believe you can do it.

There were alot of things that I would like to have done, but I wasn't able to because of the affair. Although I have never sent a Plan B letter and Chris has, our situations have differed quite a bit. Our W's basically did the same thing, although, in relocating.

Chris is definetely the authority, in my very honest opinion, on Plan B. (He's very intelligent and your very luck to have him respond to you on your post. I have the utmost respect for him.) With his wife (former W) 2000 miles away, he may not have had the 'trouble' that those who do a 'local' plan b have had. Not saying either was easier or harder. But Chris is right in what he says.

IT IS GOING TO BE THE HARDEST THING YOU HAVE DONE IN YOUR LIFE.

Your NOT the one who choose this path, your H did.

Don't reward him for his behavior by allowing him to show up on those camping trips while you are in plan B.

You cannot do Plan B and you 'eat' your cake too, when your suppose to be protecting you and the children from more harm of your husbands A,AND have him there on the 'family' vacations. Remember, he's choosing the OW, NOT his family.

You can do the camping trips alone. But, you aren't going to do this alone. Your already going to have a support system there, your friends. If they don't want to do the camping trip with you because your husband isn't there, then find new friends.

This is going to prepare you for a life without your husband, decided, he not return to the marriage. You can do this and guess what... your going to have to do it. You don't have a choice. If he wants to go on the camping trip, then tell him he has to come back to the marriage first.

<small>[ May 08, 2003, 04:50 PM: Message edited by: Husband2you ]</small>

Chris:

Thanks very much for your answer. I did send a plan B letter. It had the short, to the point, required message: I need to do this to protect myself and kids from your withdrawal, affairs, indecision and unwillingness to commit to us....contact only a minimum re: children.

Believe me, he got the message.

My questions about the summer, well, they may not seem like intelligent questions...considering your bang-on obvious answers...but I promise you I am actually not a stupid person.

Part of me is still struggling with whether or not plan B is the right remedy here. H is not in contact with OW, I am sure, did show some response to Plan A, but he is deeply stalled over some huge issues: committment to me, and fidelity.

I was, and am still a bit unsure as to whether or not plan B is bringing out the heavy artillery too soon. That being said, my gut says no, it's time. He is so detached...I do not want to be cheated on again, and I canot reach him at all. He is getting nowhere in dealing with his demons while I am still part of the picture. Instead of dealing with his existential crisis, he tends to hammer away at the same blame mantras with me. And, all this has been going on for over one year.

Ok, so that's an "excuse" for why I hesitate with a full-throttle plan B.

I KNOW you are right. And I guess I posted here about to hear exactly that.

You know alot about plan B...it sound like it did not work for you? I know you had no choice about doing a plan B....in a way, it's tough to have a cake-eater around who knows how to push buttons when he wants to...makes it tempting to ease up.

Husband2you,

Thanks for your post. You clearly are a super-dad, like so many on this site. You have to understand that I may sound like a whiner in my post, wanting "cake" myself, and you are right to call it that. But you should have the whole picture. I am a super-mom. I have been 100% parent to my boys since day 1, H has had monstrous business issues/emotional issues (2 A's), and an all-round impossible time dealing with little kids.

I have taken those kids almost everywhere myself, stayed at home with them while babies, and finished off my schooling (law) while writing bar exams, and working part time, being pregnant and breast feeding the whole time bcs I felt so guilty about everything.

You are right, I can take them camping myself. I have damn well proved to everyone that know me that I am super mom. Here is the thing: I am so tired. I wish you could understand how tired I am. I HATE being super-mom. I want, soooo badly, that help, kindness, support that I have hardly had for so long. And the crazy thing is, if the H gets to come on the trip....he will be a model-prisoner. Is that me getting ready to eat cake: absolutely....I am ashamed to admit it. I am venting big time here....be aware of that. If have to go on being 1000watt mom, I will, absolutely. My kids will not suffer because of their dad, and I am not a victim.

I have to be strong and get used to a possible life on my own. Starting now. I am just so tempted to "insert" a little island of Plan A, in the desert of plan B....to remind H of the great package me and the kids are, and to eat some cake myself...sad but true. 2x4 time, I know.

I have the utmost respect for people like you and Chris. You dealt the hand you were played, and turned your lives into successes. I will do the same too. I know I will. Despite all I have said...I am on that track...compared to where I have been.

But, and don't 2x4 me too hard here, but does every plan B have to be the same???? are there any exceptions, given that circumstances are different in each case????

Are there no tailor-made plan B's?

I am nervous in the implementation of plan B...I keep wondering...was plan A really good enough? Does he really understand/see what the "package" is that me and the kids are????

Am I fishing for the answer I want....maybe, but being a devil's advocate is what this site helps with, no????

Which would be better for the model prisoner? Him sitting at home, not enjoying his family? Or, him sitting with the family having what he wants?

I know you want him there so bad. I know its hard. You have my respect in that you actualy initiated the Plan B. I have yet to do so in 4 years.

Are there tailored plan b's? Why of course. I have maintained alot of boundaries recently, and have basically stopped 'plan anything'. I have not plan b'd; due to ALOT of very extenuating circumstances that only have affected our situation, and there are none like what my W and I have been through, that I have seen in the some 27,000 members here.

Of course, with the support of many individuals here in private conversations, I have a tailored-type plan B. Its not really close to the Harley principals, but its done alot to protect me, helped me to grow and set boundaries and protect the love that I have for my wife. Although that love is so very little now, a chance for recovery is very, very little now unless she does some very major work.

Lets get some other's help here to help work out your situation. You may need to tell us more about the affair and your current situation to come up with a solution.

Really its a matter of what your heart and mind can take....

Hang in there.

<small>[ May 08, 2003, 06:14 PM: Message edited by: Husband2you ]</small>

Husband2you,

I really appreciate the time you have taken to post, and understand my situation.

My H's A's, I think, are conflict avoiding, escapism induced behaviour patterns. Especially the first one, which was a PA, with little EA. It took me LONG to get my mind around what he had done the first time...I was so angry about havign been virtually abandoned with kids, school, work....everything. He was repentant right away, and wanted to make changes and amends....I let him wait, and refused to forgive for ages. I also did not look at my part in the whole mess until...baby #3 got started. Then, it was like the "recovery" was over, and we slipped back into alot of old ways. Life got hard again, and he fell for another damn employee.

H has faced challenging years in the post dot-com business world. Since the melt-down, his entrepreneurial ventures have gone nowhere. He's an A type and bases about 100% of his self esteem around that kind of success. H was/can be an exciting vibrant partner...but watch out when the going gets tough!

He wanted kids in principle, but found the reality of family life....very un-sexy. We have worked hard to deal with alot of those issues in that we get sitters, make sure there is alot of conversation, RC and adult needs being met....but it seems that nothing is enough. H is depressed, and in the grip of a MLC/existential crisis. I cannot seem to help him.

He cannot seem to put the pieces together: the vacations, the glass of wine at night, the good SF, the dinner with friends, the apple picking with the kids...it's all part of the equation...part of the package, along with the stress, worries and arguments.

He KNOWS we can sit down and have a great talk, go out and have a nice evening, go camping and have a great time....but I always remark: why, oh why, does NONE of this ever go into the "plus" column...the "reasons why I should stay with Eleanor"...no, NOTHING goes on that list.

He feels like a failure through business, a failure as a husband and father...and seems to just see that "mirrored" back at him when he looks at me. Oh it's so frustrating. He does not see me at all. I am so lonely.

He even says now: I think I need to "bottom out" before I can come back "up" again. It's like he wants his self-destructive behaviour to ruin his life completely, and he's going to rise from the ashes....or something. Maybe I should not stand in the way of that...I don't know.

He claims that for years he did not think I really loved him. That all I wanted was a provider, husband, man to play a role in my life...I have had to look at that and realize that I can understand why he thought that. I have avoided showing him real vulnerability for years, and as he declined emotionally, my attide, outwardly was: you'll make it, you're ok! Inside, I was terrified. Depressed H, little kids....scary. So, in the last year, I have dropped all "walls" that I put up against vulnerability. I have let it all hang out. I have tried very hard to show him the love I have for him, the respect I have, and the passion that I feel for him. He says that he is starting to believe it, finally.

So, now, I am scared that he might forget this, and revert back to thinking that now, since I am "rejecting" him with this plan B, that I am just trying to manipulate him, trying to get my provider back, and don't really love him...or some such garbage. I want him to feel the love i have, to not forget it.

Anyways, I'm pooped. Does this explain more....I don't know.

I am still open to suggestions about this plan B thing....do I tailor it????

help!

Wow... okay I'm going to need sometime and help from some other MBers.

Take a break.. and check back in a little while. Hopefully Orchid, K, Chris, Spacecase, MelodyLane, Zorweb, Pepperand and other will help me help you out. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

OK not an expert but here's my two cents.

It seems to me that you went in to plan b, before you were ready! Some might argue that one is never ready, I disasgree!

And as for the modification of plan b, modify plan a. Set the boundaries so that you are safe from him and comfortable with your actions also!

Remember he needs to figure this out for himself, you just need to keep your heart safe. So do whatever you need to and don't beat yourself up over whether your path is a Plan A or Plan B.You have to do what is right for you and your kids.You've been thru a lot and your tired thats okay, you are entitled.So if you need to Plan A for a little longer, relax enjoy the trip and move on. Forget about an A, just focus on the fact that he's your childrens father.

This trip thing, will it make a difference to the kids if daddy is there? If so I think you've got the answer. The kids are what matters!

Hi E,

I am a westcoaster .... otherwise, I'd go camping with you!

But, seriously .... this "I'm so tired" .... I GET ya ... TOTALLY!

Heres my practical suggestion. Hire a female college student (preferablly a teaching major) to go with you on the trip. Or, alternatively, get a younger relative to go. (Don't you have nephews or neices?)

Your H has been excused. He has a note. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> The note says Please excuse H from the family. He has been abducted by aliens.

Don't compromise your integrity.... why would he believe ever again you if you initiate Plan B and then break the rules YOU set so clearly?

A friend?
A relative?
A hired nanny?

Get an able body to help.

Much love and concern....

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Pepperband,

Other than spelling your name wrong in my posting.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong>
...
Heres my practical suggestion. Hire a female college student (preferablly a teaching major) to go with you on the trip.
...
Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">THIS is a great idea. Why didn't I think about it. I wonder if they the students would be willing to help out a dad with 2 boys during the summer <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

God I love this place

Eleanor,

Good advice coming your way..

Lets see what else the cat drags in... ORCHID!?!?

Eleanor, How are things?

Hi Eleanor

I saw you getting some good advice here, but wanted to stop by and let you know I was thinking of you.

Eleanor you have endured the pain of 2A's, and supported your H through his own issues around perceived failure i.e. as a business man and father etc. Eleanor, these are his issues. I think sometimes it is easier for women. If you have checked my thread recently, you will know that I have actively been seeking new work opportunities. I have been self employed (successfully I think I would add) for the past 4 years. Now, I have to save my home, and if that means I have to take a permanent job I will. Does this make me a failure because of the changing economy and market? No, I don't think so. It makes me realistic that I want to save my home and I will do what I need to - sometimes we just have to pick ourselves up and move onto the next thing. Is this a woman thing? My bro is in a similar sort of way, yet he too won't bite the bullet and get out there and get some work.

I don't know, sorry I digress, but these dear E are not your issues they are his, and if his response to these issues is to have an A or withdraw from you, well.....

Your Q about whether you have done enough in Plan A and whether he can string the good pieces together, you probably won't know the full answer to until you do go to Plan B. I know you believe he is not in contact, but I do still wonder if there is any way possible that there might have been some contact because his withdrawal/fog/ fence sitting really seems to have dragged on and on.

I like the idea from Pep about finding someone to go with you. You know you are super-mum, but it would be nice to have someone just to come along and share some of the responsibility. If you are in Plan B, it shouldn't be your H. Let him make arrangements for his own camping trips with the kids, take them away and care for them himself without you. You truly would still be giving him the best of both worlds.

At the end of the day E, it is your choice and your decision. I believe your fears are completely natural and realistic. But, do you want you life to continue as it has been? Your H will not (or seems unable to) change the status quo, but you can.

Wishing you well and thinking of you in London.

Lisa

P.S. Of course, your H is an Ozzie too, so that does explain many things <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Husband2you,

Thanks again for your concern and follow up...geez, this MB place is helping me more that I ever thought it could.

I read your post, cruchie's and pep's last night...and then I got busy. Called my sisyert-in-law, she and my brother have no kids yet, and she's a golf widow...and asked her to come camping...she's psyched! YOU MB'rs are GREAT!!!!! As soon as she said yes, and I started to get my mind around the whole change of plans, I felt great, and like it was the right thing to do.

Crunchie: your question about would the kids mind/notice if Dad was not there....it made me think...the answer is yes, a tiny nit, but as long as they have fun, which they will...all will be well.

I wanted to tailor the plan B bcs I am so scared....scared that my plan A was not perfect...scared of what H will do once I step back. What will he decide about what he wants.

But I have had my final revelation (for now) about this. I am DONE. I do not want the H that is constantly dragging around the same baggage, the same fears and destructive behaviours. I do not want that, no matter what. I am moving on, without him, if I have to. I am surprised at how strong I feel. I have not felt/seen this Eleanor for so long...it's like seeing an old friend. I am saving the person I love the most...ME!

H came by this am for an early mother's day thing for me. he organized the kids for getting me breakfast in bed. That was the deal. He was here for 2ish hours, and I kept to plan B....he is confused...not sure if I am "angry" or what. I reminded him that he had to go "now" and that he would have the kids tomorrow. It was really something seeing him literally "skulk" out of the house. This morning was really tough bcs some friends had come over with their baby...a visit that H usually very much enjoys participating in, but this time he had to go.

This is going to be tough on him...very. I have been the one to organize our social life, our outings with kids, and general schedule of life. Now, he's on his own. At loose ends I am sure.

I feel relief...and I cannot believe how good it feels to say it, and feel it. Dammit, I just may get used to the peace and predictability that I now feel in my house and with my kids.

Lisa: You are right. H's problem is his own. I know I cannot fix it, and I am stepping out of the picture so that he may (or may not) deal with it. I am a fixer/helper...I have thought, for so long, that I could somehow help him dig down and exorcise his demons....I see how wrong that is, but what has been a bigger lesson is that with H, I have to remove myself completely...otherwise I am simply a foil/distraction...I get in the way of any epiphany's that H may have, because he loves to blame all his unhappiness on me. It's easier than looking within himself.

I am 100% on board for a not-watered down plan B, no tailoring to allow me some mid-summer cake...this is it. I feel in charge of my destiny for the first time in ages.

I WANT H to come to me and ask for reconcilliation. I want to start a new life with him. I love him. I am over the pain he caused me. I know he never truly meant to hurt me...he behaved horribly, but the H I met 15 years ago, and married 10 years ago was/is a sweet gentle considerate man. I am hoping to meet that man again.

He gave me a Mother's day gift too: chocolates, a book, and candles. It's the first gift he has given me in over a year. Also, he gave me a nice card. Don't worry MB'ers, it will take one helluva lot more than that to win ol'Eleanor back...but it was nice anyways.

My mother's day gift to myself is coming up tomorrow: half-marathon in Ottawa with a bunch of mommy friends. It's a beautiful run, tulips blooming, thousands of happy runners. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Lisa: I will catch up on your thread...sorry to hear that the Div is coming to pass. I understand the analogy you are making between my situation and yours....I have to do what "needs to be done" to save myself and kids from H's behaviour and indecision....even if that means no cake for me...for a long time. Sorry to hear that you will have to fight for your house...i will post on your thread.

Crunchie: yes I worry that my plan A was not good enough, and that I have moved to plan B too soon...I surprise myself with this plan B thing bcs I did not say to myself: ok, time for plan b....I just started setting some very firm limits, one's that I actually knew he would have ALOT of trouble respecting, and then when he crossed the line...I took another step towards plan b. The plan B letter came just recently...when I realized that allowing him any cake at all, would keep us in limbo forever.

Husband2you,

I am so greatful for your help. The reality check you and the others have given me has help me go with a gut feeling: Plan B all the way. I can start to see how it will help me get over the remaining bits of fear I have over being a single mom of 3 little boys. It's so NOT what I ever wanted, but....I know I can do it and make my life rich and interesting at the same time. It will take some creativity and extra work, but I can do it.

If I am lucky enough to have H ask to reconcile, I will consider it NOT because I am afraid of being alone, but because I want him, and the new relationship that we can create together.

I will check in tomorrow.

Thanks

E

Wonderful news. I'm glad I could help, but it isn't me, really, nor the others here. Its the plan of the Harley's that we have all tried to emulate in our lives at this point.

I'm glad I can share part of my story with you to help you get to where you need to be. But, Chris is and has always been my model and mentor. Although I've never told him, he is. I've very happy that you have found at least a peaked resolved. It will demenish, of course, but, I feel that you'll champion it the way all of us have been forced to walk. We didn't ask for any of this, although we received plenty of individual instruction, from our WS.

Just focus on you and the children. Just like the flight attendant always says, "Your children are important, but put on your own oxygen mask first, so that you can help your children put on theirs. You'll be able to do it for them, they won't be able to do it for you." Although an analogy of life, your spirit is the same. Take a few minutes to catch your own breathe, so that you can be there to help your children catch theirs. So often we put ourselves last, as we were always raised to do by our peers and family, to show our own humility/

Awesome! You go girl! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

It seems E that you and I are in the same place!

Read my two most recent post here in gen questions.

The plan B things is going along well for me except I'm not as strong as you yet!

First:I can't bring myself to ask him to leave when he's in the hanging mode, i do! (Or just hang out in opposite side of the house)

Second: The family scene, with the rest of the family, i'm not ready to separate from my in laws yet.

I get strength from your resolve, you are doing great!

Happy mothers day! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hi Eleanor

I am so glad you have got some support for the camping trip and are sticking to your guns.

I know you worry about whether or not your Plan A has been good enough, but you also know that your H has been able to see all the positives recently, although in his mind he has not been able to string them together - I hope for your sake that during your Plan B, that it all starts to sink in for him.

One question, did you make sure your Plan B letter was loving? I question that because you said he thinks you are perhaps angry with him? I don't know whether or not it is possible or practical, but it may be worth re-iterating how much you do love him, but the pain you feel because of his indecision is too much to bear given everything that has happened. You know the thing - someone started a thread (perhaps CM about examples of Plan B letters just recently).

Eleanor, stay strong. You sound like you are doing well. Some days will be tougher than others, but you are doing well.

Thinking of you.
Lisa

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Husband2you:
<strong>Wonderful news. I'm glad I could help, but it isn't me, really, nor the others here. Its the plan of the Harley's that we have all tried to emulate in our lives at this point.

I'm glad I can share part of my story with you to help you get to where you need to be. But, Chris is and has always been my model and mentor. Although I've never told him, he is. I've very happy that you have found at least a peaked resolved. It will demenish, of course, but, I feel that you'll champion it the way all of us have been forced to walk. We didn't ask for any of this, although we received plenty of individual instruction, from our WS.

Just focus on you and the children. Just like the flight attendant always says, "Your children are important, but put on your own oxygen mask first, so that you can help your children put on theirs. You'll be able to do it for them, they won't be able to do it for you." Although an analogy of life, your spirit is the same. Take a few minutes to catch your own breathe, so that you can be there to help your children catch theirs. So often we put ourselves last, as we were always raised to do by our peers and family, to show our own humility/</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hehe, um I have know idea where that came from.. you can pretty much disregard it, at least the last of it, where I have know idea what I was trying to say. Uhhum, I was not with my own faculties while I was posting this. Although I was trying to help. Sorry, had a little to much fun last night/morning and I don't remember posting this. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Lisa:

Yes I worry about the plan A, and yes my plan B letter was loving. I am quite sure it hit all the right notes...but I might follow it up with a little "refresher" since I put plan b into effect, bcs I think he is reeling a but from the reality of it now....I think he had no idea what it would actually mean in real terms: the minimal conversation (H's #1 EN), no "hanging out" with theboys at home, puttering in the garden, dinner with me (I am a decent cook).

I came back from my race today, and said "thanks for taking the kids for the day, you can go if you're ready". he was taken aback. He looked miffed and says "well did you at least have a nice run/race?" His attitude was "why don't I get a de-briefing?" Then the relatives started to arrive for a big Mother's day bbq, and he skulked away.

It was a high impact weekend for the kickoff of plan B.

Crunchie: I will check out your thread, and I am curious to see where you are at, and how you got there. ALl I can say about "readiness" is that you cannot force it. It feels "natural" to me to do this, as my heart and mind both agree that what I was doing...was not working!

Husband2you:

Maybe it's me that's had too much sun this weekend, but I do not read anything odd about your post! Why the retraction???

You are right about taking care of myself! I will.

Heading into another week of single motherhood...not looking forward to it. it's lonely work. Hard to not have adult company at the end of a long day. Conversation is a huge EN for me too. I will miss it.

I am worried about slipping along the path of this plan.

Also, I have not told H that he's not coming on our summer holiday. He's going to be really shocked. Also, I am worried that it will cause a backlash...maybe he will decide to see ow, or some other woman. God I hate this. part of me wants to wait...let him think he has to be a monk if he wants to come...delay the news.

Happy Mother's Day to all mommies out there.

More tomorrow.

E.

Eleanor-

It looks like you've 'set the table' very well with plan A so stay strong with Plan B. When those feelings of doubt creep in, remind yourself that it's to be expected, given that these plans go against most of our natural instincts of how to handle the situation. It's interesting too that he was put off when you didn't engage him in conversation, sounds like there's a good chance his need for conversation is not being met either.

As far as your H seeking some sort of counseling, do you think it's even a remote possibility? Is there anyone he's close to that would agree with you on this subject? Someone that he respects and would listen to? If the WS can accept that something is broken in their lives and entertain the possibly of getting help, 3/4 of the battle is won. Good luck to you!

Hi Eleanor

Well, don't tell him yet about the trip. What did your Plan B letter actually say? Because if you said to him you will only communicate about the children, he wasn't "welcome" at the family b-b-b-q etc, he must surely be wondering about those things anyway. And if he does immediately go off back to OW2 or find someone else, is this really a man to invest your life in? I ask that given my own situation. My H would not engage at all, and immediately went with someone else (even whilst still at home). Is that someone I really want, who is worthy of me? I ask you the same....

As I say, it sounds like you did very well, and do stick to your guns. I read someone's thread saying that anytime her H tried to initiate convo re R she just kept stating "Is there NC, if so fraid not". For you perhaps it should be "Are you willing to address your issues and engage actively to the success of our M, e.g. MC. No, fraid not" Not very articulate, but I know you will understand what I mean <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Take care and chin up.

Lisa