I am the other woman and the betrayed spouse wants to have a closure meeting where she is able to say all the things she needs to and ask all the questions that she feels she needs answered. There will be a counselor present and I want to do everything I can to help her heal but the MM has been compulsive about lying to her and I know some of the questions she is going to ask will bring to light his lies. I don't feel it is my place to answer certain questions and I feel that I will be hurting her by being the one to tell her the truth. If you are a betrayed spouse please let me know what you would want in this situation and what will just cause more pain.

Also, I am pretty sure I will be called some very uncomfortable names. I feel that not only does she have the right but it may be essential for her to let go of her anger but I am not sure how the most compassionate response to the venting should be, I want to acknowledge how she feels but I don't want it to get abusive either. Please let me know what you would say to the other woman if you had the chance. Thanks for your help. I hope I haven't intruded.

By the way, there is no contact with the MM and I have sent him legal notices to never again attempt to contact me so I don't think that is one of her fears anymore.

<small>[ May 20, 2003, 08:47 AM: Message edited by: startingover807 ]</small>

I personally would LOVE a chance to tell the OW (my sister) just what I think of her... but after a year, I still have not gotten the chance. What can she call you that you have not already thought about yourself? I don't mean to be rude, but think about it... what would YOU think of a woman that has no morals and goes after YOUR man??? Fate and destiny are a bunch of crap... you and you MM were not destined to destroy other lives... you CHOSE to do it.

Let her get it off her chest. If it helps HER heal... you should give her the chance... she deserves it after what you and her H have put HER through!!

Of course this is just MHO... others may see it differently..

-mcnyh

best response "i'm sorry" and mean it! probably won't help except to let her vent, but it's the most respectful. just listen to her, and please, be honest! she may not believe you, she may want to think that her husband is being truthful. but you at least have to give her the facts as you knew them, and any proof you have, so that she can make an informed decision.

if your serious about doing this honestly and to help, then i commend you highly for it! to know you've done wrong and take responsibility for it, even if it means having to face the pain you caused, is a wonderful thing for you to do. wonderful for you, for her, and even their marriage if it forces him to be honest finally. she deserves the chance to make a choice with all the facts, at the least!

just be respectful, allow her to vent, understand that you may hear some very bad words, but know that you're finally doing something good for the woman you hurt!

mc, have you ever wrote her a letter telling her what you think? not that you should send it, but it may make you feel better to write one. after you do, you can twist it into a person shape and throw it in the fire while you watch your hatred for her burn... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

sorry... I just noticed you edited your post... I assumed you were still with the MM, but seeing as you are not... I must change my opinion... Maybe she should just work on her M, and let you "fade to black"... as you are no longer involved in the situation...

Although as I said... I would still love the opportunity to confront my H's OW!!!

mcnyh

Kristawny -- oh, I have written MANY things... letters, poems, etc... I have quite a collection going now <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ... Just with I could make her read them!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

mcnyh

I'm sorry...but did the eclipse last week have some cosmic effect on people...

The reality is that no one gives anyone else closure...Even the word itself is pretty nebulous....

YOU should not have any contact with either....
this is just programed to backfire...and is unrealistic...and the so called counselor might have been hit by lightening during the eclipse which might explain the insanity...

Do see how this just keeps this whole twisted thing alive...

YOU have legal boundaries in place...yet meet with wife????
SHE thinks you should be truthful and answer questions that her own HUSBAND won't....and yet will deal with you on answers when the real issue is the lieing husband??

This is a set up to never end...and what she believes will bring closure is a ganruntee to bring more questions...
more need to meet with you again...
more diverging from the real issue...
HER and HUSBAND period....

Don't agree to this..for your sake for her sake...
Just you walking in the room will hurt her...
the counselor is nuts....
closure comes from within only...if it ever comes...closure is deciding what you alone will or will not tolerate REGARDLESS of anyone else in the universe....

YOur are setting yourslef for extended contact...
with her, with him,,,
move on and away...

ARK

<small>[ May 20, 2003, 09:46 AM: Message edited by: adgirl48 ]</small>

I am with Ark. What the heck? I have talked to OW and it didn't help. You know why? Because she isn't the issue. My ex-WH is. He is the one who committed to me and lied to me. And for me to be asking OW things my ex-WH should have told me- well now I know how ludicrous that is. My ex would have found someone at some point, this woman just happened to be there. I would have liked her to ask me to forgive her and to tell me she is sorry she is carrying his child and she didn't- but you know, that all seems silly, random and just weird now. She has to live with the guilt every day until she decides to repent and change and she has lost her 2.5 year old son because of it- OW have their own guilt and troubles and it is silly that I am the one who is 'innocent' (of the affair) so why should I be asking 2 liars what has gone on (ex and OW)? I would definitely NOT do this...the BS may think it is just closure but instead it will probably end up haunting her. The best thing for you to do if you are truly sorry, and want to change, is to disappear from their lives completely. You could send her a little note if you wanted to to say how sorry you were- but really, it is just words at this point. It might make me feel a little better- but after all the lies, I am not even sure if it would.

Oh and as your subject says TOW? Actually she is BS, you are the OW.

Why are you doing this? To ease your own guilt? Do not go through with this. Ark is correct, this will just open up a bigger can of worms. She will lash out at you because you are the easy target since she wants to believe her cheating H so badly. When you tell her everything, she will confront her cheating spouse, he will continue to deny and lie and then she will want to talk to you again so you can PROVE to her that what you are saying is true. This will turn into more and more contact and become a circus. Remove yourself from this situation NOW. She needs to deal with her husband. By the way, MC NEEDS YOUR HELP to reply to your statement, not all OW have no morals and certainly not ALL OW GO AFTER A MM! A LOT of MM chase the OW until they give in, yes the OW make a stupid mistake by succombing to those desires, but 9 times out of 10 it's the MM that makes the first move.

<small>[ May 20, 2003, 11:22 AM: Message edited by: trying2_4give ]</small>

starting,
I doubt you will help her heal. However, as a FOW I too had this same issue. I spoke w/ his W as per her request several times. I was honest as that is all I did promise her I would be. I would go to the meeting. If you don't she may spend wasted time thinking if only she could have told you...

You have stamina to write in to the site that condemns adultery. I wish you luck in doing things better than in this past. You probably could do with a counselor for the predicament you have gotten yourself into. No?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by trying2_4give:
<strong>Why are you doing this? To ease your own guilt?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Because "the betrayed spouse wants to have a closure meeting."

I seem to be on a different line of thinking here...

First of all the BS asked for this. So I think it is considerate of you to do this. Some may impose their own judgements about what your real motivations are, but I would hazard that some vague desire to do something to make amends is in there. If you really were simply just self-interest, I would just as soon avoid the whole deal. It's a mix of motivations, but I don't think there's much wrong in that. Of course, you may be keeping something back, so maybe you do have a hidden agenda to destroy what's left. But then you wouldn't need to post here to do that, would you?

Considering that the H may have continued to lie to the BS, having the truth come out may be very helpful for the BS to understand the real situation that she is in. It is the H's lying that is the source of the hurt - not your telling (assuming you tell in a mature and considerate way). You're just pointing out the festering wound that the H is trying to cover up. Otherwise, the limb might just rot off if left untreated. Or it might heal on it's own - but I think MB principles would say expose the truth.

Most people would rather know the truth even if it came from someone else besides the WS. And again, the BS is requesting this.

I don't have any suggestions on how to handle the potential raging storm that you might receive. I hope you can take it well and with some empathy for the BS. This is a chance to partially make amends and it will probably help you to heal as well, so make the most of it. But go in with the understanding that it could turn out really badly even with the counselor present.

As for apologizing, I think it will depend on the BS. Some won't believe. Some are receptive. You may want to talk to the counselor before hand.

SO807,

This is an interesting situation; I'm actually quite fascinated and would like to hear more of the details of the meeting. How was it arranged, why you agree to go, etc.

Reason being, I'm surprised a counselor would feel that the BS would benefit from such a meeting. Closure doesn't come from you; it comes from within the BS. In a sense you are being invited back into a relationship that you never belonged to in the first place. It worries me a bit about what everyone's expectations might be here.

I think you have courage to come here and post; as well as going to such a meeting for the BS. Two words come to mind for you. Dignity and grace. If you act with those in mind you can't go wrong. Also I wouldn't tolerate abuse from the BS regardless of how justified anyone thinks she in her anger. You're human too and made a big mistake. If I were in your position, I would think of some different ways to communicate to the BS how sorry you are that you had the affair.

Honesty...you have to tell the truth regardles of what the WS said to the BS. That's your business. Further lying will be destructive. Sure she'll feel pain for hearing more untruths; but I feel that if you take your "best self" to the meeting, you can do nothing less than tell the truth.

The lies the WS told the BS are none of your business. That's between them.

I hope you keep us posted on how this goes. I'm simply amazed! Blessings, CSue

It is easy to criticize this woman who did this. But I am sure that many of us have done things that in retrospect would not have done had we anticipated the consequences. We know the rules were made to keep life neat and clean and yet we have at times crossed the line. It is rotten when we realize the error. Better to see it for what it is and deal with it to HEAL. Jesus said, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." Can anyone relate to this.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by WFLOWER:
<strong>It is easy to criticize this woman who did this.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Did what? Wanted a meeting? (the bs)
Had the affair? (the ow)

It is easy to criticize the OW for being the OW. She made a mistake and is trying to do something to help the BS, I think. Isn't this the story here?

Not criticizing her or anyone...but this is folly from a legitmate counseling point of view...

As if this can bring closure..it's dangling a carrot, disruptive to dealing with the real issues at hand...his and her marriage...

the OW as stopped contact to the point that LAW OFFICIAL intervention was necessary...

although jerry springer does it all the time....

in a therapuetic environment..it is not very brilliant....
for any party involved...each interaction will bring new questions new doubts new desire for interactions, clarification and 'venting"...

there is no such thing a closure..ther is accepting what has been what is and moving on....

you can't always get forgiven for causing pain..sometimes forgiveness is not to be given...
and affairs aren't mistakes...forgetting to pick up milk is a mistake...affairs are choices that cause great pain...but you can't go back and change those choices...this will bring only more pain to all involved....

psycho pop word "closure"....
right up there with soul mate.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

ark

I too am baffled that a counselor would recommend this meeting. But then again, we went to a counselor that I wouldn't send my dog too. There are some nut cases out there.

If you do go to this meeting you will have to tell the complete truth. If you lie in any one instance, then she will assume that you've lied in all. Don't go unless you're willing to be completely honest and express that to her. You can't white wash the situation. If she's willing to put herself out there, then she will expect the truth...give it to her.

The best thing you can do for this lady is to never get yourself into this type of situation again. What you've participated in doing to this family is more horrible than you can imagine.

I wouldn't do this for love or money. H's xow is more disgusting than words can describe but then again, she's a serial cheater and could probably shock veteran prostitutes with her antics. I already know more than I can handle and having any more information to bounce around in my head would be sadistic.

If I were you, I would meet with the counselor beforehand to find out what possible good this could do. A simple apology, remorse eloquently expressed and a vow to never do this to another family would be enough closure.