Well the sold of the appartment was ok. We "sold" to my mom.
We didn't receive any oney for it, bassically was a change of name if we end in D I would not be on the street...

He was very good phisically more slim and clean cut (the way I like it). Well I was also good I think, with makeup and my new size of pants...

He asked how come he has not saw me at the gym and how was work. I told him all was ok.

Also he asked for some speakers that we sold to a co-worker of him (Bose system) and asked to go to the appartment to pick them up I said sure I'll get them down to you, and then he asked that maybe on saturday we could meet for the interchange?

Should I meet him? or leave them at his parents?

<small>[ April 14, 2004, 07:10 PM: Message edited by: matilde ]</small>

Matilde,

Hmmm... You are still doing things for him. I don't know... Are you in Plan A or Plan B.

The key to these two plans is contrast. You work as hard as you can to fill his needs while minimising LB's. That's Plan A. Then, you stop. Completely.

At that point, he should notice the change - have time to miss you - to think about what you always did for him.

Since he moved out, I thought it was your intent to move to PlanB. Maybe not yet.

Anyway, I think you should have let him get his own speakers.

-AD

AD is right...let him get his own speakers.

Feeling good about yourself is a good place to start. For me when I lost weight and got a tan I felt better. I know that might be a little superficial. I just felt more confident and it is starting to carry over to the inside.

AD

In what plan I'm now? Hard to answer that...

I'm into plan A making myself better, taking the pounds off and trying to comprehend many things, also in IC and trying to get along with my life.

On the other hand I guess I went into plan B since we are separated, we hardly talk anymore and just a few mails money related, so I guess he already got a taste of what was loosing me and home, no that he cares much about it.

I'm still going each day to plan B fully until I can not substain it anymore and ask for a resolution either come home or D. I'm a black and white lady no grays in my life. Aothought I'm begining to look and live more the grays in life I guess in M is either stay or go at some point.

About the speakers I don't want him to go up to home, not now at least, so my question was should I leave them to his parents? or meet with him and gave?
If I meet surely we will talk... and I don't know if I want to avoid that or not...

d_rose you don't sound superficial at all, as a matter of fact I have stoped taken care of me (phisical) and that took a huge blow in my self esteem + A you can see the results. I'm on a diet now and getting a better body and I know in time mind will follow.. I been there.. So I know what I'm talking about... as inmature as that might sound...

Matilde,

Oh, I understand. I thought the speaker were at a friends place.

Just put them out on the sidewalk and let him pick 'em up. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

No, I guess that's not the right answer. Just don't go out of your way to take care of his stuff. Do whichever is more convenient for you - whether it's convenient for him or not.

Is there a neigbor in your building that is friend of H? Could you leave them with the neighbor and just let him pick them up from them? That way you wouldn't have to go to the trouble to carry them to his parents.

BTW. What country are you in?

-AD

Hello AD

I have thought this over and I think I'll leave them at his parents house.

I'm from Venezuela.

Take care

Ok... HUGE vent here read at ur own risk...

I was relaxed... cool... listening to music...
AND SIL my spy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> told me that H just had a liposuction!!!!!!!!!!

OK [censored]... I'm in a freaking diet here... got him operated of his eyes... got him good looking clothes... get some birth defect with a plastic surgeon out and now this?????

What he did for me? never told me I was getting fat... never told me if I fixed myself or not not a kind word...

ARGGGGGGGGG Do I hate him now?

Yes!!!!! selfish buthole!!!!!!!!

I don't think there is recovery for M.... NO way... before that IF there is... he has to eat DEEP and I mean really DEEP $HIT!.....

Thank you all ladies... and friends here... U know who you really are that made me beleive again that I'm a great person and I deserve better!!!...

From me... he can go to OW right NOW and I mean it NOW...

Have a good time with her! Not that I care anymore!!!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Ok aftermath... The morning after...

I'm still angry not becasue he did that, but becasue on what he didn't do...

Also I think it's kind of weird he did that, but he refuses to go to IC? Yes talk about things that I do not understand... and need to... Wich leads me to think again did I really knew him at all??? I have to ponder this very carefully...

Any comments on this new stuff?

(((((matilde)))))

hang in there hun!! you are doing great-congrats on the new pants size!!

i dont have anything to advise--i think you are doing wonderfull!

Ok low day for me now... I got some work related issues I have to figure out that got me down here... I migh be looking for another job but I still don't know yet.

I been thinking how much does it take to plan B. I hate as all of us to be in limbo, and I liked always stability... let me make myself clear. I'm thinking now D cause I hate this state separated... is it a state? I never been too good on grays areas and since I'm not seeing the light at the end of the tunnel anytime soon I think this is somehow wearing me down...

I guess I just need some words of support and a wise advice on what to do or don't do?

Go put on that crown and look in the mirror and smile....

...because you are a Queen!

♥Suz

Thanks Suz remeber
U the queen!!! I will be one some day I know...

Update H grandma just died and I can go to the funeral...I'm calling tomorrow to give my condolescences... Later I will attend some church service...

BAD DAY very bad day for me

hummm how u did the heart thing Susan?

<small>[ June 09, 2003, 09:34 PM: Message edited by: matilde ]</small>

Like this...

♥ ♠ ♥ ♠

Suz ♥

oh...and there is also this...

♣

Suz ♥

VERY FUNNY SUZ!

Aren't u going to explain?

OK again his grandma died yesterday...

I want to call his family but not him.
Is this right?

Ok I did call his mom but call hung up, bad reception. And then I called his cell phone to ask for mom and gave my condolescences.

He said he "knew" I where here in US cause he went to my moms and saw the car parked in mom's garage.

Ok the conversation where like this:

-Hello, how are you I knew about your grandma, I'm sorry it happened.
-There is no problem how r u? I been working and next week I start classes again...
-I'm ok, I will not be able to go there cause I'm not in Caracas.
-I know, I figured it out cause I saw ur car parked at your moms garage... by the way how is the course?
-Which course is that?
-Aren't you on a Cisco course over there?
-No, who told you that?
-Then what are you doing there?
-Just having a good time...
-Are you still mad at me?
-Did you went to the shrink?
-No I have not returned there
-Well I will call back in 20 minutes to see if I reach your mom bye...

And that was it!

Soooooooo, He has still not worked any issue, and again I don't think we can come back...

Just wanted to share this also...

Now what I wanted and I really thought...

-Hello, how are you I knew about your grandma, I'm sorry it happened.
-There is no problem how r u? I been working and next week I start classes again... (I would loved where have you been? I missed you)
-I'm ok, I will not be able to go there cause I'm not in Caracas.
-I know, I figured it out cause I saw ur car parked at your moms garage... by the way how is the course?
-Which course is that? (I never lied and that got me off base so I could keep with the course stuff, this was so out of the blue that I didn't got a clue what he was talking about)
-Aren't you on a Cisco course over there? (Guess he tought I got no other reasons to be here?)
-No, who told you that?
-Then what are you doing there?
-Just having a good time...(How about trying to forget about you and clear my mind?)
-Are you still mad at me? (Now I wonder why he got the idea I was mad at him? Now of course I'm angry, but I'm not mad at him... well maybe I'm and I have not realized it? Anyway I knew he did a bad choice and what I'm mad about now is his lack of commitment for this relationship)
-Did you went to the shrink? (My way of trying to figure out if we have a future, until we both address our issues this got no future, I thought we have talked this)
-No I have not returned there (His way of telling me he is not interested in this relationship anymore)?
-Well I will call back in 20 minutes to see if I reach your mom bye... (My way of telling him that until he commit and go there and start addressing issues I will not come back)

Ok now... It's clear he is still having a good time, you know nothing to address right? I been doing NC for 2 weeks until this sittuation happened. This is something I shouldn't let pass because I didn't feel like it.
Ahhhh I forgot to mention I called his cell number, the one that got missed, the one he used with OW, the one that got disconnected? now he knows I'm not that dumb right? I already knew he got it online for some time now...

Anyhow... I guess I should write that plan B letter and stating the issues that I want if we ever come back? or let us play in limbo until out loves finally disminishes enough to reach D without the pain? hummm ok going to take my pill now... My mind is playing bad tricks again...

<small>[ June 10, 2003, 11:16 AM: Message edited by: matilde ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Are you still mad at me?
-Did you went to the shrink?
-No I have not returned there
-Well I will call back in 20 minutes to see if I reach your mom bye...
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Interesting...

I'm just wondering here, did you answer his question ("are you still mad at me?") with a question about the shrink?

Also, does he think you ended the conversation because he has not gone for counseling?

Susan

Ok thank you Suz to made me think this over...

Yes is clear we have some really bad communication so here is the problem...

I know I made a mistake of going NC without a letter... it seems H thought I was mad at him and went NC... Well to tell the truth yes I'm angry because his lack of commitment... well I already said this right? Well this could be for 2 reasons...

One he still thinks I'm hurt and angry with him and he doesn't want to cause me more pain...

The other he is still into the A...

Right now I don't got a clue if he still is, and I do not care... what? u crazy? u must thought ... well I'm not... I'm going to answer what I really want from him, from me and from us...
Ok, A was a really bad choice we all know this, but we live in real world where As do happen right? and a lot of bad things also right? Yes we all know better, but they still happen, I have made some awefull things also in my past without really caring bassically when I was young... anyhow, I couldn't knew what was in H head to blame him or judge him. That it hurt like hell? well you know that, but what I'm going to do about it?

What I want from me, is work all my issues to make me a better person...
Same from him...
And to make out relationship if there is still one, one of a kind...

Ok how are we going to reach that?

In my case I'm working on my body, reading books, going to IC, and trying to read post and learn from someones experiences, trying to change my lifestyle slowly and this is the hardest for me trying to see the gray areas in life... <---- not such luck there I guess... Oh boy do I still have much to learn? You have no idea!!! But I'm not afraid of it.. I guess I just have to do a schedule and try harder...

About H? I'm really scared, he was not yet go to counseling and since he sees me asking about it as a demand {thank you Suz to point that out for me}, I think we are doomed... How can you recover when only one party want that and is willing to do the whole 9 yards and the other didn't want? At least on my eyes...

Ok now... about the wonderfull conversation we got.. yeah right...this is a hard issue.. communication... in 8 years communications for us was a one way street I mean I said it all, from when a nail hurted, things where wrong, how to fix things.. how u feel, u know... in 8 years he never got a problem and men! did I blew it up? when I found out we couldn't have childrens the easy way I blame it to his lifestyle and never really supported him... well yes BIG MISTAKE!!! Anyhow at the time I didn't knew better and it seems now I didn't also??? Anyhow at that time I think A at least EA was at the begining... so not much I could do I was just the catalistic on that.. how fun huh?

Our communication...I have been always too defensive, and since he lack the maturity to know adult ppl can say hard things with no hard feelings and trying to F.. U up for life he lacked the skill to forgive...

Ok I'm rambling too much... MY real question here... is how you communicate with a person who never communicated before cause he think you where try to hurt him at any level? Try to please everyone not to create any conflict and with another always at a defensive side???

Jeeez I know is hard and now I wonder how we made it this far right?

Matilde honey.... you LB'd big time! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

If you want to work on your M, you MUST do plan A! You said that you have been trying NC for 2 weeks now... but you haven't done up a plan B letter for your H either. He must be so confused!

Plan A is hard... we all know that. You've been doing an AWESOME job on improving yourself, by getting involved outside of the home again, and taking better care of yourself (even if the weight loss was from the "infidelity diet"... it's still something that I know you liked the result of <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ), and getting in tune with your emotions too.

But what about your Plan A towards your H? How have you created a SAFE ENVIRONMENT that he would want to come home to? From what you typed of your conversation with him (and I understand that there is a bit of a language interpretation issue, albeit only a little one), you LB'd bigtime, IMO.

I think you owe your H an apology for your retort about the shrink after he asked you if you were still mad at him. I'll admit, I don't know what would have been the best response to use (that would be the truth! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )... all I do know, is that your answer mustn't have been very endearing for your H to hear from you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

It's wonderful that you are on your trip of course, but (MB 2x4 me if you want to), it's a shame you weren't home to attend the funeral. It would have been a good chance to plan A... to remind him how caring you still are. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Shoot... even if you were in plan B, I'd still suggest going to the funeral, b/c it's just the "right" thing to do. Be sure to at LEAST send a card.

BTW, did you ever talk to your MIL? And how is she handling this?

Karen