Hello Topie I know I LB BIG TIME! You are so right!

I do not have created the safe enviroment for H to return, I started today with an email, I lack a lot of communication with him and I'm trying to start even from here...

About not been there for his grandma funeral, well she was not that bad when I came here, and she really went from bad to death in only a week! How was I suppoused to know that?

I'm planing to go to some church services when I return home, and about MIL yes I talked to her and expressed my condolescences.

Thanks for your reply Topie you are right and I have to reread again all MB material.

Take care

Ok trying to fulfill some need at least via email cause now everyone knows I'm in USA and trying to explain myself better I wrote him this last email...I'm going to try to translate as good as possible so bear with me...

U know?

I kept thinking about your question if I was angry at you... and to tell you the truth my answer about you going to the counselor leaved much to tell right?.
Even more at the time when your grandma has died... I'm very sorry that this happened...

The truth? I'm not angry, I'm very hurt about this whole issue and I would like that things would be different.... Maybe you are seeing my position on going or not to the counselor as a demand, in truth is not like that. The way I see things is that I still love you with all my heart and I wished that I could make our thing something incredible, and also I think we have lacked many things, between them there was communication {now I see it this way} and I thought he could helped us in have a better one. For me that was our worst problem in this moment and always was... maybe I'm wrong I don't know you tell me?

This is the hardest email that I have wrote you, and I would like if possible that you read it slowly, I wouldn't like you to think that I'm pressuring you or nothing like that, I just wanted you to underswtand me better and would like to do the same to you.

Regarding my trip, I came here to think things better, I beleive it has helped me a lot on that matter and in Caracas, I was in a circle and couldn't saw a way out. Now I'm more clear on what I want and how to acchieve it, so in that aspect, the trip made its goal.

Also a part of the trip was the time that you requested me to go away from you, so you could crave for me... To tell you the truth that was the hardest for me to understand, because I always knew the value you had for me, meaning I didn't wanted to loose you to knew all that you worth, even so with all your defects that are still present I know, and I would like to overcome those and recover ourselfs as a couple and as an individuals. Sometimes is incredible to me how we did made it this far limping in such a way, but what matters is that this helped us to put a stop in our lifes and see all that, now.. what are we going to do about it as a couple as an individuals? I don't know. I tell you again I'm willing to try with all my heart to recover and to get better our relationship... Are u?

I know that I made much things for this whole issue to happen, and for that I ask for your forgiveness, no one teachs you in the path on how to make a good marriage and one goes on bit by bit, sometimes good sometimes badly, until you just reach the point of no return or until you reach a stop sign that makes you ponder about your whole life... Not just about the couple, but your whole life, the way you have lived it and what you want from now on...I think we are at that point now, but as I told you before, since we lack a real communication I frankly don't know how to reach you my love... Did I loose you already?

If that so, I will have to accept it and go on... If I still have not loose you... I would love that you would gave me the chance of try again to have all that espectacular things we had and acchieve, you and I know that it happened, I would like to start a family with you, will all that it takes, meaning ICSI, adoption or whatever, I want you to know that I still think that you are the most incredible man on earth, that has not changed, and probably I never told you that in this way, and if my actions where not in concurrence with my words, for that I ask you to forgive me one more time.

If it's possible, when I return to Caracas, I would like to go out with you and have a talk about all this.

I write you this mail because right now is easyer to communicate throught this way without bad interpretations on one another and keep going back.

Now it's me the one who ask you don't get me out of your life... give me the change we both require to continue better than ever or to decide this has a no way back and separate, but not before know that we tryed with all out souls, because that is something I would never forgive myself...

I love you very much

B...

Now I sended this and he has not acknowledge.... by now I'm sure he has checked his email and saw it....

For me the lack of response is his way of telling me that he doesn't want to do nothing more with me...

I know all of you advice that don't take any life hard desicions on the first year... My Love bank is runing on empty and as many of you I hate to live in limbo... This plan B is not working at all, I need to be cared to feel I'm into a relationship, if not I tend to get crazy and not do the right things... I want to keep up with my vows and my principles, for that I need then to D.... besides I always been the desicion taker in this M and I think H is pushing me to take this step...

Did anyone know about divorce sites?

Thanks

<small>[ June 11, 2003, 05:29 PM: Message edited by: matilde ]</small>

Matilde,

I read this last post thru twice. My thoughts are that your H is probably reading it at LEAST that many times...maybe more. It is a beautiful e-mail, direct from your heart, telling him everything he needs to know.

DON'T GIVE UP yet. i know how hard that is. i want to run away, too. i want to get away by myself where i won't have to look at my H and remember the hurt and wonder if he cares at all for me. if we are alone, then we really CAN convince ourselves that we were RIGHT all along, they didn't love us, they wanted us to leave, THEY wanted to leave. we'll be like the soldiers in battle who fear they are outnumbered and retreat, when they can't even see how many enemy there are over the hill.

i believe those who have endured this agony are correct when they say don't make ANY decisions about divorce or big life decisions in the first year. we are too weak right now, too hurt, too miserable, too unsure. we have to continue to work on ourselves, reshaping our minds, bodies, spirits, until we have the strength to make important decisions....and that will take a year. as we do this, we also will have the time to observe our Hs and our marriages; to weigh the good times against the bad; to sift the pain out of our union; to wash the windows of our souls to let the light of love and renewal enter in.

let's be patient.

i think your H will read your e-mail many times. give him the chance to do this. don't follow with another mail, don't threaten, don't mention Dv. be silent and give him time to think about what you've written. then see if he answers.

and take each day as it comes, think positive, improve yourself today, you'll be a better person tomorrow.

Simmy

Matilde,

Very good suggestions and advice from Simmy regarding your recent email to your H. Give him a chance to read it,,and re-read it so he can formulate a response. Remember the post by Just Learning that I had you read about men and communication. Sometimes it takes some of them longer to respond to these emotional issues.

The email was good, Matilde. Now give it a some time to sink in. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hi Simmy

I'm sure that H must have read the email by now and I hope at least once and yes I wrote it from my heart, but I'm not sure I'm saying all he needs to know...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> DON'T GIVE UP yet. i know how hard that is. i want to run away, too. i want to get away by myself where i won't have to look at my H and remember the hurt and wonder if he cares at all for me. if we are alone, then we really CAN convince ourselves that we were RIGHT all along, they didn't love us, they wanted us to leave, THEY wanted to leave. we'll be like the soldiers in battle who fear they are outnumbered and retreat, when they can't even see how many enemy there are over the hill.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm not giving up just yet, I think I did, but I wont...
We seem to be in the same spot Simmy because I'm wondering if he cares at all for me and to tell you the truth this is the hardest thing... If I knew that at least there is a shred of hope, I would stick to it like a maniac and try to recover from there... I just don't know... Even if I'm outnumbered, the battle is not over until the last one fall right?

Well for me this is some sort of battle of feelings and my crazy mind playing trick after trick and I don't know until when I'm going to be able to endure it ur just give up.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> i believe those who have endured this agony are correct when they say don't make ANY decisions about divorce or big life decisions in the first year. we are too weak right now, too hurt, too miserable, too unsure. we have to continue to work on ourselves, reshaping our minds, bodies, spirits, until we have the strength to make important decisions....and that will take a year. as we do this, we also will have the time to observe our Hs and our marriages; to weigh the good times against the bad; to sift the pain out of our union; to wash the windows of our souls to let the light of love and renewal enter in.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Right now, one of the biggest tricks my mind is playing me, is why H has not filled for D now? Like my mind is telling me that maybe there is hope??? And yes sure I can wait a year and make me stronger, and that will have 2 meanings for me... one yes I'm sure I will take the time to make me a better body, mind and spirit, to rebuild all those things I'm possitive it takes a LOT of time, more than a year perhaps? In the other hand, in a year can happen many many things, like in 30 seconds your life would not be the same and I think is selfish that I wouldn't be at his side or him at my side...
And of course the question... what I have done to deserve this??

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> let's be patient.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well this is the harders thing right?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> i think your H will read your e-mail many times. give him the chance to do this. don't follow with another mail, don't threaten, don't mention Dv. be silent and give him time to think about what you've written. then see if he answers. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well I'm glad you have posted this cause I was going to call, or send another email to know why he has not answered yet.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> and take each day as it comes, think positive, improve yourself today, you'll be a better person tomorrow. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Would I? I guess only time will tell..

Thank you so much Simmy

Hi Nerlycrzy

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Very good suggestions and advice from Simmy regarding your recent email to your H. Give him a chance to read it,,and re-read it so he can formulate a response. Remember the post by Just Learning that I had you read about men and communication. Sometimes it takes some of them longer to respond to these emotional issues.

The email was good, Matilde. Now give it a some time to sink in.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes I have re read many times that post, and thank you for your time and response, I won't pressure for an answer and wait for one if there is one... At least I think I made my point clear on my love and what I espect, if he doesn't want to answer... well I just have to live with it...

Take care Nerly

Today I'm going back home
Wish me a good trip...

This time here has been very helpfull and enlightening to me, and helped somehow btw all that happened to find me some peace... For that I thank my parents greatfully...

For those how been keep following my story, H has not answered the email and I have lost hopes that he will ever answer...

Thank for all you help

mat

safe trip matilde-we'll talk when you get home. hang in

Matilde;

Fly home on the wings of angels, with peace in your heart b/c you've done everything possible. we'll be here to talk when you are ready.

Love

Simmy

Matilde,

Have a safe trip. My thoughts are with you.

Dobie

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by nikko:
<strong>safe trip matilde-we'll talk when you get home. hang in</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thank you nikko I'm hanging just very well.
This trip besides on what happened when I was there has been very relaxing, mind clearer an enlightening to me...

Simmy

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Fly home on the wings of angels, with peace in your heart b/c you've done everything possible. we'll be here to talk when you are ready.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I did made the flight on the wings of the angels... Those angels are all of you giving me the support I needed and for that I thank God every day! Come more often to chat lady! I have not seen u there for a while... and as someone posted... chat sometimes is the best therapy LOL...

Dobie

Thank you for your thoughts.... And you know what? I didn't get the ice cream that I craved... ohhh well but I did took off 4 pounds more there so it was a good balance after all? LOL...
Thank you for your time...

Ok about what happened....

Things turned out sort of interesting?
Either OW called me or H called me... I got caller ID and there where some calls from where OW work or H go some times... I just have to figure that out and that was like 3 days after I left????

Also there are like 20 calls from a number I don't recognize and I have to find out who is from... (they didn't leave any msg) I just love technology... I will keep you posted when I find out from where they went... But I got a hint...

Thank you all for your prayers... I'm begining to beleive again in the power of prayer. I also lost that and well I have to keep up with so many things now that I didn't realized the power of it... I will work on that also and beleive me I pray for all of you at nights... just not for me ... weird huh? Well I'll leave that to you!!!

Take all good care!

mat

<small>[ June 15, 2003, 01:17 AM: Message edited by: matilde ]</small>

Well I think I had it. The last pillar that was attaching me to H was FS, yes as uncool or selfish that might sound well you already know how a WS think and behave... Since this was the last need he was filling I hanged. But all has to end right? So... First of all I would like your opinions on if I should call him and start the D talk and the separation of assets or just telling him what he is going to do with his stuff?

I don't want to be the bad guy and start selling thing without him knowing u know?

So first what would be your opinions on how to procede here?

<small>[ June 18, 2003, 06:43 PM: Message edited by: matilde ]</small>

M,
I'm confused. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Did your H file for divorce or are you wanting to file for divorce?

((((((Matilde)))))

K

Matilde, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I too am confused.

What happened w/the telephone call from the OW's number and the other 20 calls w/o a number while you were away?

Have you had contact w/H since you've returned?

What happened to make you decide to start on the divorce or separation?

Simmy

By persistence, even the snail reached the Ark.

<small>[ June 19, 2003, 11:11 AM: Message edited by: Simmy ]</small>

First about the calls... he did made some from his company he told me... and the other number the weird one I still have not found out from whom they came...is not as easy here...

What happened was, that H and I share a joint account, boss did me a last minute change over the deal we had and I didn't got any money from him...Also if u add up that about 2 weeks ago I did a deposit to our credit cards from MY money... well if it wasn't for some savings I would be strugling now...

As I said FS was the last thing H has to took over for me to go on... and detach... Well is way over the time he got his money and is not on joint account so... I emailed him to ask for a date....

What I was thinking on tell him on that date was... what do you want me to do with your things? what do you want or don't want? and not to end this badly... Well at least not that badly...anyway... I was ready to go on... Well not ready but since communication has broken and I already started comming out of the closet telling friends and coworkers H and I are separated and I was wiling to go out again... not dating for me at all I'm not even remotely ready for that but just go out and have some fun since I have closed down and have not allow even to go out with friends (all my friends are safe...)

Have to finish this later! be back...

I'm back...

redhat the A was exposed to CLOSE friends and family only... and now I'm just telling to co-workers and other friends we are separated and not giving any explanations. I mean I'm not telling it is because of the A... If they find out fine... if not well fine also...

Well... I missed the point... The point is I sended the email asking to meet him... and...

He called back!!!

He sounded really good...

O well I wish I had a recorder but I didn't...

We talked a LOT! he told me he had the lipo, that he made much thinking, that he had missed me a lot, that he doesn't wanted to gave me false hopes (Yes Suz I still know is fog talk) but that all is going to be much better... He told me his work pretty much $uck$ at the time... u see the company where he works for was purchased by another one and that his boss didn't like the new boss and was resigning in 2 months so maybe in 2 months he will also do that but anyway that he had intoduced curriculums in some head hunters...
To see what shows there (I hope something new for OW to be out of the picture), that he did a course on emotional intelligence and did it very good, but in all his life is not making sense (comming out of the fog yet)? that things don't add up.. Yes he had a work, go to gym had the lipo... but not any meaning in the future...

Also he told me that he loved that I was at his parent on sunday (I had to go to give my condolescences) and really had a good time... Well there is this thing that my hair is growing back... and I was neately dressed (not my ussual jeans).... and that the pants where runing down on me (from the pounds I had took off), and what a great color I had on my face (yes I worked on my tan there), and bassically how good looking I was turning to be... all this his parents told him! And God... Does it feel good to hear it from them? And from him? You bet!

While I was posting this I had to make a break and go up with co-workers ... 2 had not seem me and where amazed of my change! (they where girls) That I was very pretty! Geeez that boosted my self esteem big time! I guess my hard work on diet is paying off finally! LOL even the counselor noticed it yesterday...You all know I got issues with my body but working on it and seems everyone is taking notie and that is good! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Oh well back to track... where did I left? Ah ok his parents... he told me he was thinking to buy his mom a dog .. that if I could go out with him on saturday and pick one... Well I sort of LB there... I told him I have talked to his dad about this dog stuff and he didn't want one... (haven't I learned anything here??? Hit me ladies!).. well he told me then he better not got one cause every time I said something turned to be true (regarding family) on what to do or not, and he always got in a mess... and I told him no I don't want to push you into anything... and he told me you know what? the dog if for mom not dad so we are going to buy it... and I said ok...

He asked me how was my trip and I told him I couldn't talk becasue lacked of privacy and he knew...
He told me he didn't wanted me to cry anymore... if I was crying? well my voice broke a couple of times there but I didn't cry... I told him not and not to worry.... Since we didn't have nothing more to talk about he said he will call me latter and we hang up... (still waiting for that call yeah right)
Also other things he told me... we never addressed each other by names.. we always used things like "My king", "My sky"... well he told me twice! "my life" heheh God it felt so good he even apologized for calling me that like I was going to said to him not to call me that or something... but I didn't called him any names... I'm practicing here a lot of listening and a little of tough love...

Also he told me he has answered the first email and I said U did? When? and he told me yesterday night I was very tired of comming to moms house at 2 am.. by the way I crashed mom's garage door cause I leave the car in drive and we have to pay for the repair.... I told him of course we do! and he told me well I was beaten and decided to arrive early yesterday night and check on email and I answered... I told him again I have not received it and he promised to send back today...

Well you know what? I did have received it... when I went to trip I created another email account and I sended the first email from that account... I didn't checked it but did it today and BAM the email was there!...THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU NERLY!

Here is his answer on MY LOVE EMAIL!!

Hi

You know?

I'm never going to get you out of my life, becasue you are and you always will be a VERY important person for me.

I love that you had the trip, and I guess at the begining it was a pain, but I hope that later you where better...

By my side I'm very good... sometimes very confused, but I think I'm all right, I'm full with studies and I have droped up some work, but kept up in gym some more...

I would love to see you and that we have a chat for a while...

I also care (love)? you very much...

L....

<small>[ June 17, 2003, 09:13 PM: Message edited by: matilde ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>I already started comming out of the closet telling friends and coworkers H and I are separated and I was wiling to go out again....</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So A never exposed to the day light <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> . Do that first but stop short of "dating" ... take a deep breath and let it sit for awhile.

-rh-

((((((matilde)))))))
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I know you are SOOO happy to have some positive contact with him that I just had to give you a big hug! Your "love email" and he DID answer it! Seee,, the patience JL spoke of is paying off.

Reread AGAIN JL's post, before your date or chat with him. Talk to him and WAIT for his answers..don't fill-in the gaps in conversation. Let him do that. And try to start out by just going out and enjoying each other's company. Don't try to rehash the relationship stuff too soon. I KNOW you are anxious...I KNOW you want to know exactly where it stands.

But, for now, try to just let him know,,,

you've missed him,
you're happy to see him,,
and you still love him.

And see where it goes,,,,,,, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Thank you for your reply Nerly

Hugs are very welcome... Yes that post from JL is a classic for me and it served well...And it will be in the furture I bet!...

About me.... hummmm this is indeed a roller coaster.... just yesterday I was in the top of it, and today I feel I hit rock bottom again. Nothing in particular besides a problem at work.. but...
I don't know if this makes sense at all, but I came to realize that this A issue was meant somehow to me to do some changes (yes some wake up call right?)... well it's been already 4 months since dday and although I feel sad I don't feel the hurt I once feeled as when I found out, or the days that came after that.

This whole issue has been vary painfull we all know that, but although some times I feel like dying, I still don't know why I keep hanging... wich makes me wonder there must be a reason to that right?

hummm My life has to have a meaning... and to know what is the meaning or my goal here on earth I think I must change somehow.

Right now I still know I can not think clearly enough to see that meaning or all the changes that are required from me by me... and I'm still in the middle or if and I need some perspective that only time will give me...

I was really afraid on the things that this A have took from me... but I'm also very thankfull for the things it bringed to me...

I think that no matter what with or without H, I have to keep going and try to fix me and look for happyness and peace... And I'm not afraid anymore to lose some more because I know I will gain a LOT more. At the end I have to ponder if it was worth it but I bet it will (there is only one way to go and is improving)... That is my main goal here... Now how I'm going to reach it? Well I'm not that clear on a plan but I will do it anyhow...

Thank you all that have read this for your patience and understanding I bet much of you have done the same thinking as me today. But this is new to me...

WELCOME time!

(((((Matilde)))))

I'll be hoping things are going in the right direction for you!! Keep giving it your all and letting him know you love him. He'll come around! Thank you for your words in the chat, they did help me with my issues. It was nice to talk to someone who has "been there." I hope I can help you as well, even though I am a young'n!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Sweet Dreams!
-T-

((((Matilde))))

This made me cry first thing this morning when I read your most recent post. You are doing great.You have come so far. I see such deep soul searching. I'm so proud of you.

Your husband is missing out on a prize far greater than gold, but hopefully he is on his way to realizing that.

Keep on keeping on!

♥ Susan

<small>[ June 19, 2003, 06:07 AM: Message edited by: Susan ]</small>

Hi AnT_626

Now I know things are going in the right direction no matter the outcome <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . It sure took me some time to get there but I will keep walking and learning... I'm glad I help somehow although I don't remember saying nothing wise LOL... Well maybe just the being there helped. I know it has helped me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> and I'm glad you felt at least in company... That is the idea <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> .

Susan

Don't cry! well if it was from being happy all right!!!
Yes I think I'm stronger than before but as you know I still got much to learn. I don't think I have walked that far in recovery I still got much to do and to learn. This soul searching... well it's a new thing for me to do and I have to put all my efforts. Thank you for being proud but I'm not there yet! and I will keep on keeping on, I have no doubt about it...

A very especial thanks to you Suz, for being a friend and cheer up my days...

Ok now about update!

Yes! he made the call this morning and we are geting the dog tomorrow then lunch...
Pray for me, so I don't LB and I remain calm... Right now you can bet I'm frightened since I went NC and plan B without letter. I read the JL post again on men communicating and also the 180 and I'm, not going to push anything here, besides I don't have the will to do that right now, since I'm starting to get stable again and see the thing from a different point...

Wish me luck!