Gazz,

Why not try to get her to go to counseling again. The problem is that she doesn't strike me as someone who works hard at marriage....when it gets hard....she leaves. You should really be in a Plan A right now ya know? You need to get focused and try and talk to her about your feelings. I'll keep checking on you.....hope things improve soon.

I talked with my wife this morning about her moving out.... oh I asked her the other night if she would consider it as the way we are living at the moment is too uncomfortable. She said she had and left me thinking that was the next step for her. So this morning I brought it up and asked her what type of place and rent she could afford.
She told me her price range and she is going to be lucky to find anything other than a miserable apartment for the rent she says she can afford if she's lucky. My wife has always as far as I know relied on other people to help her as she has never been a large wage earner in her time. And so she has rarely at best lived on her own! She also made an odd suggestion, and that was that I rent her a room. I joked with her about her living habits and if she had any references who I might call, but I am unsure how serious she was....certainly don't know if that matters as I also told her that I doubted that was a good idea.
I also suggested we sit down and see if we can hammer out how to divide up what is here, she told me there really is not much she wants except what she brought into this marriage....which isn't much. I asked her this to avoid paying lawyers any more than we have to and then she asked that we see one together and I declined as I said I would use my own.
I also asked that before we go alone that she sit down and have a long talk as I don't want nothing left unsaid or regret not telling her everything I want her to know, she said if we could avoid fighting she would. I then made it clear I have no desire to fight with her.
Counseling is something that I really believe she is not interested in at the moment, but she did agree with our pastor a few weeks ago to sit down with him again when her cousin is gone, that was before the accident so if she does sit down with him it probably won't be before Alan goes back to Tennessee, so that could be 4-6 weeks. She also said she is considering returning back to tennessee when this is all done as Alan's wife told her she could help her with a job. Well that's about it for now, still foggy about how to save this so i'll just keep being pollite and try not to throw any LBusters at her. The way I feel changes constantly, what a rollercoaster!!

Gazz,

If you want to save your marriage.....I think you are hurting your chances with this latest plan to hasten the moving out process. Could you tell me why you are unwilling to try a Plan A?

Star,
It's not a question of not willing to try Plan A it's a question of not fully understanding it! For the past 5 or 6 weeks I have been living with a women who has made it clear that she does not want to stay married. She is hardly here and when she is the atmosphere is less than pleasent. I have no clue how to make her re-think all of this.
If you have any suggestions that I with my limited intelligence can try, believe me I would put forward a giant effort. I have taken great pains to avoid upsetting her in any way, I am pollite, but there seems to be very little I have knoticed in the way of change. It seems I am devoid of all ideas to change the direction this is going. You said it yourself that she probably has learnt nothing about intrpersonal relationships. How do I teach her? How can I show her that this marriage is not only worth saving but should be saved? I hate the idea of loosing her, but on the other hand her willingness to end this over what might appear to be a bump has me so confused. I'm devoid of ideas on how to get throught to her. I also hate the way things are going, especially the constant reminder of the fact she does not feel any desire to save this. If there is a way to get through to her it is illuding me! I feel like I'm dying a little every day and wonder if I'm not pursuing a hopeless cause.
Star I would do what ever it takes to save this, I just don't know what that is.

Gazz,

Yes, I fear all too much as well, that your wife's track record for working on marriages is not good. And truly, I offer you encouragement because I know you love her. So with that in mind, a Plan A would consist of first of all...not talking about your relationship, but engaging her in other more pleasant conversation. Allowing her to see that her actions hurt you, but in a non LB way. Filling what few needs she will allow. Stoping all love busters.....and expecting nothing for a while. At least that way...she may get an idea of what a compatible marriage to you would be like. Try to imagine what has been in her head and what has made her vulnerable to an affair. What do you believe has been missing....that you can show her you are indeed capable of. Conversation....since she spent hours with the cousin...must be important. Can you communicate without anger or jealousy? Can you listen without judgement? That is what he gave her. Maybe affection as well. Can you offer her these things and put aside your resentment for just a little while so she can see your love? Without some change from you, and a warming of this atmosphere...I fear your wife will just do what she usually does...and leave. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Small small plan A suggestions...

1. drive to where she is drop off a favorite dessert for her..

Leave something small thoughtfull for her to find in her car....NOT romantic but something that shows concern.....an inspirational card...or something that is funny....expect NOTHING in return....

2. Express concern that you hope that all the stress the accident has put on her that you hope she is sleeping well and taking care of her.

3. Go down and offer to take her out to eat...NO RELATIONSHIP TALK...EXPECT REFUSAL...BUT OFFERR.

4. Plan an activity you both enjoyed...summer festival.concert....summer hang out..invite her to go...traditional local fair...expect her to say no....YOU go anyways...invite her anyways.

5. Invite her to church!!! expect her not to go but take a moment to tell her what the sermon was about...(only positive up beat things)...

6. Get busy yourself...make plans with friends...be social...be active....

7. Send her a note or email...about something light or funny you have encountered or done or seen...express that she was the first person who came to your mind about sharing it with...but no HEAVY relationship talk...

8. Try to be as upbeat pleasant as you can...TRY to be happy to see her...she expects sulleness and tenseness...shake he up a little and get her attention by doing what she does not expect...
Verbalize some concern about cousins progress be happy about good progress...but don't linger on injuries...move away from subject quickly....

ark

Yesterday after she left I thought long and hard about ecouraging her to find a place and decided I was wrong! When I saw her last night I told her this and also said that this is her home untill she see's fit to say other wise, not me. She seemed a little suprised and asked what brought this on. I only replied that I'm trying to do the right thing under these conditions but certainly am not always going to get it right. She also asked what if I change my mind and I replied don't worry it won't happen.

She asked me also if I was dating anyone to which I said no, she then said that it wouldn't bother her if I did. She also asked how I would react if a man came to our door asking for her, which I said not very well. So I asked her had she been dating, she said no but that offers had been made. I also added that a date showing up here for either of us would not be in good taste. Have no idea why she brought this up, maybe because I was out later than her last night, or she wanted to guage my frame of mind, I really don't know!

Then the conversation turned to Alan and we mostly she talked about how he is doing, everything said last night was in a plesant manner, she did add that she is still going to look for a place, and I said that was entirely up to her but that I would not encorage it anymore.

Thank you both for the ideas I will try a few of them, Star I really am grateful to you, you have helped a great deal by just talking with me.

<small>[ June 29, 2003, 08:06 PM: Message edited by: Gazz12 ]</small>

Gazz, I am glad you are drawing boundaries here. You don't even want to be the catalyst for providing her a place from which to date other men. That is completely inappropriate! If she wants to play a single woman, out of respect for you, she should move first.

Gazz,

Considering the circumstances....that actually sounds like it went well. One of the things that I find most encouraging was her confusion. She expected you to act one way....and instead...you didn't. That is one of the interesting things about Plan A....it encourages us to act against our normal instincts....and the results can sometimes be surprising.

I'm glad it's helped to talk....your situation is so difficult....I often feel as though I am doing you a diservice because I have so little to offer. But I know this Gazz...and I know it in the pit of my stomach....if you keep acting like the jealous angry husband...she will only run. Show her the side she fell in love with. That's the only you that has a chance. That's what Plan A really is. Your will get your turn, but if you can be patient and stabilize your marriage....it will happen faster if it's going to happen.

I do put you in my prayers at night....and pray for your wife's heart to return to you Gazz. She's a fool to let you go.

Last night me and the wife had a long talk about us and she initiated the conversation! But unfortunately I am not very encouraged by what was said. The jist of it was about my shortcomings, which she took great pains to tell me about. While I sat and listened I kept a straight face and let her tell me every thing she felt she needed to say. I didn't argue at all I just sat and listened and occassionly piped up to either agree or clarify why I did some of the things that I had done, but mostly agree!

When I got the chance to say a few words the brunt of it was that if she had of let me know that my actions were really affecting her and unacceptable to the point of no return that I would have taken a hard look at myself and tried to address my faults a lot sooner. But unfortunately those warnings were never offered and I being as dense as I am did not think that my actions while being less than pollite were damaging to the point that she felt. Looking back in hindsight it is easy to see where I fell short but at the time no indications were given that she had a real problem.
Certainly a lack of vision on my part. It seems my biggest fault boils down to what has been a lack of caring, it's not that I didn't care it's just it was easier to not show it and I got entirely too comfortable with it. I could have pointed out her shorcomings but I felt that would not have been constructive so I remained silent. I did try and address the events of her cousins stay but what little I said was not getting through to her so I didn't persue it too hard. She mentioned a couple of time that she had thought about trying again but my actions at that time made her think otherwise, namely how I acted when all the events surrounding her cousin were unfolding before the accident. (If I had only known!)

A few days ago when I encouraged her to find another place I also approached the subject of our checking account and suggested that she not put her money into our account so that she could reserve some for a place, well last night it came up again and I told her that if the joint account was still more convienient that I have no problem keeping it that way. This morning she called me at work and decided to just use an account she has at work,(she works at a bank!) and that she would not use our account. I told her to take half of what was in our account and deposit in her's and she agreed. She left her checking card and teller card on the counter at home for me to take.
Also last night she suggested I give the money I recieved from the ins on the bike to Debra to help pay Alan's medical bills as they are piling up and it is doubtful that all insurance combined will cover everything. ( The bill that it is amassing must be astronomical!!) Last night I said I would if she wanted but she just said it's what I think you should do. Today I have decided not to solely because I don't have money to just throw away and 2 Alan is not at the top of my charity list.
Have no idea what is next, but I am not overly encouraged.

Gazz,

Even though you didn't hear what you wanted to....I still think this is an encouraging step. So what did you find out about what you could have done to save your marriage? What did she say you did wrong and do you agree with her? Her's a question for her.....What would it take for you to realize that we can rebuild our marriage....what would have to happen?

Star she never told me what I could have done only that she had reconsidered a couple of times. I guess she probably would have said that I should not have come on so strong.
I could have approached the mess with Alan perhaps a little more civil but I was p****d off at her and today still feel that I was right to be uptight at what was happening under my own roof, but maybe I could have addressed it diferently.

Being made to feel invisible while she hangs on to his every word and will not leave his side under any circumstances, getting emotionally intimate was more than I was willing to tolerate! And believe me it was blatant!
As to what it would take to realize that we can rebuild this, I haven't asked her but I know her well enough to believe she would say that she would have to fall in love again.
It's amazing how much my wife can remember about what she feels my faults are. While I have them in abundance, she remembers things that are petty by any standards. While not trying to trivilise her opinion, the mentality reminds me of a juvinle's thought process. But hey! I guess I can be juvinile too so who am I to judge.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Gazz12:
<strong>
It's amazing how much my wife can remember about what she feels my faults are. While I have them in abundance, she remembers things that are petty by any standards. While not trying to trivilise her opinion, the mentality reminds me of a juvinle's thought process. But hey! I guess I can be juvinile too so who am I to judge.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Gazz, that is pretty typical of a guilty WS. They exaggerate every little trivial perceived fault of the BS in order to justify their wrongdoing. They literally rewrite history right before your eyes. Things that never gave them a second thought suddenly become a national crime when they find themselves in trouble. Its so much easier to focus on your grievous crimes than to take a look at her own adulterous behavior.

Besides, the more monstrous she can make you out to be, the more justified she is in seeking solace outside of the marriage. See how this works?

Melody! I doubt very much my wife would view her actions as adulterous, she has denied any PA and the emotional connection that was made she does not view as wrong! Neither as far as his wife would let on does she. Maybe I planted a seed there maybe not.

I left for the holiday weekend and when I got back I found that my wife was trying to work out how much she will recieve from the house, if it get's to that point I certainly will do my best to see it is less than she is counting on. She also as far as I know is still looking for an apartment, every time I turn around her actions lead me to believe that divorce is the only outcome that will win out. Wish there was something that could at least give me an indication that I have a fighting chance. Now all I am going to do is let her know in a pollite manner that this is not affecting me at all.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Gazz12:
<strong>Melody! I doubt very much my wife would view her actions as adulterous, she has denied any PA and the emotional connection that was made she does not view as wrong! Neither as far as his wife would let on does she. Maybe I planted a seed there maybe not.

.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Gazz, they always deny it to the spouse, but they know what they are doing. She knows it is wrong whether she admits it to you or not.

The fact that your wife had been married 5 times should have been a hugh red flag as to her level of commitment to the institute of marriage.

tomaz! the statement rings as true as they come! But I have made the mistake of marrying her anyway. Now what do you suggest I do under these circumstances? Give up, or try? It's easy pointing out the mistakes, solutions are not so easily won!

<small>[ July 07, 2003, 10:04 PM: Message edited by: Gazz12 ]</small>

Gazz,

Just checking in.....how are things going?

Star,

Things arn't going well at all. Last nght my wife came home and informed me that she had been looking fo a lawyer, she also said she knew someone who would be interested in buying the house....I calmly told her that as of now I am not interested in selling. Another statement she threw at me was that she was going to take her maiden name again, have no idea why she felt she had to tell me this?
I told her that even though we had agreed on the small stuff that I would seek advice from my own lawyer about the house and what my options are. I was very nice about the whole thing even though I wanted to explode. I was not going to show how much this is hurting. Still trying to be a gentleman about this, I really have no idea what else to do. I keep praying GOD will turn this around.

Gazz,

I will add my prayers to yours. I wish your wife was the kind of person who would fight for your marriage....but she has a history of doing the exact opposite. I think you are wise to get your own lawyer and protect yourself at this point, because someone needs to look out for your interests....and I don't think she will. Just wanted you to know that I am thinking of you. I wish I had some sage advice to offer... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />