Although I have been visiting this site for months, I have only recently made a few posts. But I would like some advice from experienced MB's on my current situation. I will try to keep everything brief.

Me - BS. Married 15 years, thought he was the love of my life. Didn't suspect anything until last July he came home and said he was moving in with OW and didn't want Dv, but didn't want me. I crumbled, lost it. Begged him to come home. Tried to bargain, told him I would change. Of course, nothing worked. He was addicted to work, and she is another Manager at another store, and he said she understands, they are happy and they never fight.

He told me that he would not support me. I have been stay at home by his request for at least 10 years now. He divided up household and told me I had one month to get out of rental house we were in. I complied with all his requests. I was having a breakdown, just didn't know it at time. I was desperate and would have done anything to try to please him and hold on to him.

He has raised my S and D from my previous M, and loved our GD, but told me that they would all forget about him and eventually move on and he did not want to be involved with them any more.

He took the car, what he wanted from the house and left me with $450.00 in the bank to move out on and no car, or job or any support. Fortuantely, my D and SIL came and moved my things in storage, took me home with them which is 500 miles away from where my WH and OW are living, and I have been here ever since. I have tried to talk to him, but he is still saying that he wants nothing to do with our marriage, or me. He calls about once every 4-5 weeks, always brief and never wants to talk about anything serious, just to see how I am doing.

I did not discover Dr. Harley's book or this site until a few months ago. So, I did everything wrong, I even sent him cards and letters telling him how much I still love him and that I will be waiting for him.

Here's what I would like someone's advice on. It has taken me this long to get over being depressed and feeling crushed and humiliated by this. I thought he truly loved me and I want so much to save my M, but is it too late because of the actions I have already done, and because I live so far away? Is this one of those few instances where what my WH says to me he really means and it is not just the fog.

Should I send a Plan B letter even though he moved out and has made it clear he doesn't want to be with me or should I just wait and not contact him at all?

I am thinking of filing a legal separation paper and asking for financial assistance. Also, would it be better for me to move closer to where he is? How do you think he will react to these things?

Should I just file for divorce. In my heart, I don't feel right about doing that. And no, he wasn't always like this. It is like he is an alien - not the person I have known and loved all this time. But I am tired of being a doormat and want to take back my life, but at the same time save my M. Does this make any sense? Has anyone been in this situation before? Could you please respond?

Please, my self-esteem is really low right now, so only serious helpful replys. Thanks. cajeanie.

cajeanie,

I'm very sorry for your situation. I realize you are in a lot of mental pain right now.

It is very important to realize that what he is saying now doesn't really mean very much. He is looking for ways to justify his actions and avoid feeling guilty. Of course, he will not forget the kids overnight - nor will he forget you - even if he wants to. You can only win this with patience.

Get yourself busy. Avoid negative thoughts and negative people. Probably your D and SIL are very much on your side, but they may be trying to protect you and push you too quickly into a divorce. Give yourself (and your H) time.

If you give some more information, it will help people here to have a better insite on your situation.

Does he call or email or visit at all?

Is OW married?

Are you his first wife?

Have there been any previous affairs - either by him or you?

What kind of conflicts have been going on in your marriage?

-AD

AD,

Sorry if I'm leaving out. I was trying not to ramble on and on, something I find myself doing a lot of and not making any sense.

This is 2nd marriage for me. 1st for WH. No A's for either of us, at least, not that I know of.

My H was addicted to his work. Constantly over the last few years spending more and more time at work and not with me. He had been promised a big promotion..if he would keep putting in more time, but it never happened.

He wanted me to stay home because I could do the housework, take care of the bills, meals, laundry, yardwork. He hated doing any of that. So, it seemed to work, until his promotion fell through and the economy took a dive and suddenly, for the last two years there wasn't much income. I could tell he was spending more and more time at work and we would argue about that. He would say things like if you would help out we wouldn't be in this situation. But we couldn't seem to come to any type of agreement on a plan, just argue and point the blame at each other. We stopped our great love life, me because he was never home and I resented that he never wanted to be with me except for that, and I guess now, he stopped because he was getting SF somewhere else.
When he left, we both said some very mean things, he was sobbing and told me that it hurt him to do this, but he still went. I ask him to go to MC, but he refused. Just says he has moved on with his life, it was for the best, and no more.

He usually calls on the phone from his work. He told me he doesn't want me to contact him, either on his cell phone or at their home. He called for our anniversary in Feb., but sounded like he didn't mean it. He called for my birthday on May 11th, but also, talked for a few minutes, and then said he had to go. This seems to be his pattern. He called me right before tax time to ask for my permission to do a joint filing and to get my ss# since the OW was doing the taxes. When I told him I objected to this, he got very angry and said he didn't know why I was acting that way, we weren't together anymore, but he didn't hate me. Can you believe that? He didn't hate me. I was speechless.

He calls about once a month just to see if I'm ok and say hello. This drives me crazy. It's as though he has forgotten that I am his wife, and he's calling to say hello to a friend.

My daughter is the one who suggested that I write to him. I have to send any cards or letters to his work. If I am able to detect any pattern from him, it seems to be that when I send a letter or card, he will call and tell me something like, " I really appreciate your card and your letter. They mean a lot to me." But he has only been willing to talk about us, twice in 10 months since this happened. Once was the day after Thanksgiving, he called me and said that he needed to hear my voice, that he missed me so much, but when I tried to talk to him about what was going on, he said he had to go.

The second time was this last Feb., I had sent him a letter telling him what I felt was my part in causing our problems, what I was willing to do to change it, and that I was always here for him, that I was willing to be the wife that he wanted me to be. He called me as soon as he got it. He told me that he has saved all my cards and letters and read every one of them, and that he had been waiting for a long time to hear me say those things that I had written to him. But when I tried to discuss this any further, he suddenly told me he had to go, and has not brought it up again.

Sorry, this is really long. Does any of this help? I just need to know if I should move closer to him? File for divorce? What? Thanks.

Cajeanie I suggest you read the Dr Willard Harley's books 'Surviving An Affair', 'Love Busters', and 'His Needs Her Needs' and Michelle Weiner Davis's book 'Divorce Remedy' as soon as possible. And read all the articles by Dr Harley on this website.

While there are no guarantees that you will be able to save your M(marriage), following the principles in the books I recommended to you, will give you your best shot at saving your M.

In the meantime, here's DivorceBusting's 180 degree list:

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or
implore!
2. No frequent phone calls
3. Do not point out good points in marriage
4. Do not follow him around the house
5. Do not encourage talk about the future
6. Do not ask for help from family members
7. Do not ask for reassurances
8. Do not buy gifts
9. Do not schedule dates together
10. Do not spy on spouse
11. Do not say "I Love You"
12. Act as if you are moving on with your life
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get
busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends,
etc.
15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start
the conversation) be scarce or short on words
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his
whereabouts, ASK NOTHING
17. You need to make your partner think that you have
had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you
are going to move on with your life, with or without
your spouse
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull
back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more
important, realize what he will be missing
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show
your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him
someone he would want to be around.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on
hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which
may be a while)
21. Never lose your cool
22. Don't be overly enthusiiastic
23. Do not argue about how he feels (it only makes
their feelings stronger)
24. Be patient
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really
saying to you
26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you
want to speak out
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh &
focus on all the other parts of your life that are not
in turmoil)
28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly
29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest
CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any
words you can say or write
30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you
are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with
your spouse
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than
50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in
absolute negatives because he is hurting and scared
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad
you feel
34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes.

I really think you should pray about a legal separation...it would be my advice, but I think you should take it to the Lord in prayer. In lots of states – YOU can be liable for his debts as long as you’re married – even if you don’t live together. This means if he gets in a wreck tomorrow and he gets sued or has massive medical bills, the creditors can come after you for payment. If he wasn’t worried about protecting you before – what makes you think he would protect you in those circumstance? If you want to save your marriage, you can tell him that its just for legal protection – and you probably are entitled to some type of support, especially if he encouraged you to stay at home. This could be a real wake-up call for him – it seems he is content to just “play” unmarried without actually making it final.

If he would leave you without a job and a car - I don't think he is a real winner. I am sorry to say this, hon, it is obvious that you love him. But he is so self-centered. Have you ever read any info on narcissism? Even his calling you to “make sure you’re okay” seems to me like he just wants to make sure he still has some hold over you – that you’re still waiting for him just in case his new “supply” runs out.

Also – he is making you, his wife, into the other woman. This is probably why he calls you from work or cell phones. His new gf probably doesn’t know that he’s calling you. I would be tempted to record his calls and then inform her. Then let him deny it to her. Then play the tapes for her. He will be mad at you for doing it, but again, it is a wake-up call for him (and the OW because of his lies). If he breaks down enough to get some help (he has some kind of problem) he might forgive you for it, and actually thank you.

Thanks for all the good advice. I am not familiar with narcissism, but I will try to do some research.

I think I am leaning toward the the legal separation as well.

I guess I was hoping that someone else might respond who was in a smiliar situation where they came into MB's midway in the separation. I have Dr. Harley's book, but find it confusing to know if I should send him a Plan B letter, try to Plan A from long distance, or... anyone have definitive suggestions on these questions????

Thanks so much to those of you who took time to reply.

cajeanie

cajeanie,

It sounds like he still depends upon you in some way. That's gives you some leverage.

You've already been apart for a long time, but you were together for much longer before that. So, there certainly is still hope that he will decide to return to you.

From your analysis, it seems that he lost his big promotion and turned to OW to console himself with some "prize". Maybe she's no prize after all. Time will take the bloom off her.

What do his workmates and bosses think about his affair? Do they know?

Rather than lovebusting by spreading the word further right now, I recommend you use the leverage you have.

He still cares. He still values you.

We all make mistakes in this - and usually the same ones. I'm not sure how to undo it, but tell him that you "will always be there for him" is one of the mistakes. Somehow you have to change that impression. As long as he believe that you are "on the shelf", he will continue to try out this new woman - with the assurance that if it doesn't work out, he can come back to you. You have to take away that assurance - so that he no longer takes you for granted. That will force him to make a choice.

The list that TMCM posted is good. Stop sending the cards and letters. Don't call. Don't be available when he calls. Even get caller ID for your D and SIL and block his office phone. Get busy. Be seen around town doing things and having fun - looking "complete" without him. Even if he isn't in town, he may "hear". The idea is that give him the impression that you are no longer on the shelf waiting for him - that he is losing you.

I don't have a clear view of your financial situation, but it doesn't sound good.

Were you a big spender? Did he feel that he had to have the big job to support you?

How are your D and SIL dealing with this? Are there frictions between you? Are you crowded?

It may be better for you to live independently. With you living with your D and SIL, he may feel that you are taken care of and he doesn't have any responsibility.

You could probably get spousal support. Go see a lawyer and get some real advice. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Maybe the letter from the lawyer asking for temporary support pending the D, would wake him up a bit.

-AD

AD,

Thanks for your post and responding to my questions. I would really appreciate more help if you can, but I understand that almost everyone here is dealing with a lot of emotional issues and challenges in their own relationships as well, and needs help too.

I just started following your suggestions 4 weeks ago, with no calls and no contact. I guess what I was wondering is should I send a letter letting him know that or just "go dark" as some have described it. Any thoughts on that? I think like others here that I have read, Plan B seems so final - like it is the end and there is no hope because things will just die out and then a D will happen. I would like to know anyone who has used Plan B where it has worked.
We have several friends that we both stay in contact with and he would be able to hear about any changes I make through them even though we live far apart.

My friend seems to feel that with my living here and him living there, that he is thinking that we couldn't work things out. That is why I ask about moving back to the area where he is living. How do you think he would view this?

My D and SIL are wonderful Christians and have been caring and supportive of my actions and my beleifs that it is the right thing for me to do everything I can to save my M. We all pray for my WH every day. I will not be the one to file for divorce. But, they have their own issues and famiy dynamics and yes, I am beginning to realize that my H probably likes that I am living with them. It relieves him of any responsibility, but it also assures him that I am not going anywhere, that I will be sitting here if he wants me back. I have really needed their emotional support until now because I was in bad shape when I first came here to stay with them. So, yes, I need to get my own place, etc. H helped raise my two children and loved and adored my GD, and the fact that he now acts as though they are out of his life really hurts. They are all hurt by this. They loved him and my D had him give her away two years ago when she got married, along with her biological Dad. He never even sent my GD a Christmas present this past year or birthday present or card. His new OW has a 14 yr old D and he told me he has a new family now.

Here's what I think so far from reading SAA. My H was heavily into TOny Robbins, and actually told me that on the tapes he tells you if you are in a bad relationship, get out of it and move on. ALso, H told me that you spend 10% of your time on the problem and 90% on the solution. ALso, that when you move on, you don't look back - you keep moving forward.

He desperately wanted to be in-charge, respected, and admired by his peers and superiors at work. It wasn't about the money. I guess his EN's were being met there, and so it would seem only natural, that an attractive, D'vd, younger woman would be the one he would go to. She is a manager at another store just like him and he told me they have so much in common and she understands. I didn't he said. All I ever did was complain that he spent all his time at work. He did. Even when we were supposed to be spending time together, he was always on the phone with work.

When he first met me, I was a petite, slender blonde. I gained a lot of weight. It was and issue. I have lost that weight in the months apart. Again, I think he wanted someone youthful and sexy, not matronly looking. He turned 50 on the day before he came home and told me was moving in with OW. I had been suffering from depression for about a year prior to this, and our love life was suffering from all the things going on. I also wasn't listenting - not that he was communicating, but I wasn't paying attention to the fact that he was hurting from losing the promotion and where I thought paying off everything was a good thing, he saw it as another sign that he had failed.

Also, he said that I wasn't any fun any more.
I was the one trying to always save money, make sure the bills were paid on time and make sure the credit cards were paid off. He would get angry because I would always suggest Not spending money. He liked to spend and he let me know that the OW had money to spend on him. He got new glasses, new expensivie watch, clothes, and she paid some traffic tickets, etc. for him and he let me know that. She has a nice home as well, although I have not seen it. He seemed to like that she was independnt and could take care of herself, but also that she admired his work.

My sisters and parents want me to divorce h. Their view of H is that he is controlling and manipulative. He had an anger problem earlier in our M, but learned to control it, but now it seems to have returned in our brief conversations.

I guess my other question now, other than should I send a Plan B letter, is that I am hoping that someone will read this who was in a similar situation and they were able to save their marriage. I don't think I can stick out another year of this without some hope. And I am certainly open and hoping for some positive suggestions that might help me to do that. I really do appreciate the one so far. Thanks. Cajeanie

Thanks. Great advice. Any one out there with experience in Plan B with advice?