Sorry for my rapid-fire posting, but things are moving....

Just got an email
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

please send me your address.I'm going to write you a cheque for car insurance and send you your post in case there is some for you. We should have done this together and not just you alone.I never presented you as bady and now you brainwashed Janine about the reason of splitting up.Another thing is that we should have written a letter to her teacher about it and informed her and not leave Janine to say all the news by herself. It was absolutely unsensitive. We are adults and it's our responsibility to do the adult explanation .Poor Janine has to see all their reactions and feel that she has done something wrong in this world.Why you punishing her!? You should have waited for me to do the job and not leave Janine to do the adult stuff. I know you are hurt but couldn't you put child's need and feelings first?

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It really frustrates me greatly, I am fuming, I AM FUMING, and that's exactly the reason why I had to leave. I did NOT brainwash my daughter, I was NOT unsensitive, I DO NOT punish her. Ideally, we would have done everything together, but it didnt turn out that way, and WW told her about the separation before anyway. And what the teachers think, I do not care - all I care is that my daughter knows the truth, and if she tells that around, that's fine. I dont need some carefully-spin-doctored version of events like "you know, it just didnt work out, and we (WE!) decided to give each other space" or some other bull.

Again, she is turning the whole thing around and making me the villain, the dad from hell, her husband - Attila the Hun. Surely, she and OM will have a lot to talk about and crying to each other how horrible I am and how unjust everything is and how everything is my mistake, how typical it is for me (a western, egoistic and individualistic non-musician) to have and show no feelings at all.

Sorry for getting carried away a bit. But my nerves are a bit raw.

I answered to her. Yes, I know, it's supposed to be no contact - but I as long as it's only simple admin one-liners that's fine. (I mean, there are always things to organise, not? In hindsight, should have talked to the in-between of course. Duh! well, one learns. OK, put the 2x4 away, I got it)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Please put any mail for me & the cheque in D's bag. Will meet <AuPair> with D at XX Tube station Saturday 12.30. Please pack her overnight bag plus school things for Monday - I'll bring her to school Monday.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OK that's it - I'm off to the pub*. Enough.

*) Yes, the infamous "Fog & Fence"

<small>[ June 09, 2003, 12:53 PM: Message edited by: Nick123 ]</small>

Hi Nick,

No longer have your e-mail address because I changed e-mail accounts.

As far as your sitch goes, I don't think there was anything wrong with the way you handled your D and her teachers. First of all, your WW has already tried the "spin" on D by telling her Mommy and Daddy don't love each other anymore, which is a lie. First and foremost, we as parents CANNOT lie to our children because, eventually, they will no the truth - it may not be today or tomorrow, but eventually - and, then, we will lose their respect for lying. Secondly, IMHO, there is absolutely no reason that D's teachers need to know what is going on in the privacy of your marriage unless 1) you want them to know; 2) D is "acting out" because of what is going on at home; or 3) because of custody issues that necessitate their knowing. As you said, your WW wants to do it "together" (which in her book seems to mean she does it and then tells you) so that she can spin doctor it. Stand your ground.

Now, while you're at the fog and fence, have one for me!

Regards,

BB

Nick,

Expect anger and blame and all that....remember, she is scared to death of being exposed. She knows that without some "spin" she's going to look pretty awful to everyone, but hey that is all part of ending affairs. And will ultimately work to your benefit. Ignore it. Let her deal with the ramifications of her actions. I thought your response was fine...but none would be better. This SHOULD be difficult, she has certainly made it difficult for you. It's quite easy to remain fogged when everything is cloaked in secrecy and not face the consequences....but now she's going to be in a bit of a panic. I think that will work highly in your favor as long as you are careful to remain honest in all your discussions with others...including your child. Like you, I would refuse to feed my child some blather about BOTH of you wanting this when quite clearly, you did not.

<small>[ June 09, 2003, 02:16 PM: Message edited by: star*fish ]</small>

I think I would reply - with something like this.

I know you are hurt but couldn't you put child's need and feelings first?

Put the child's needs and feelings first?
WOW, I think I'll laugh all the way to the pub. You commit adultery, give up every chance to reconcile for over a year, won't go to counseling, and generally refuse every offer to try and work it out, and you ask me to put the child's feelings first.

You are so funny, I can't hardly stand it. You ought to be a stand up comic, you could probably make it lots of money at it.
Put the child's feelings first, Ha, Ha Ha, you are so funny, you are killing me.

If you ever are serious about working on it, I would be glad to talk, otherwise leave me alone, I think I have had enough.

Anyway, something along those lines, but maybe less sarcastic. I had a hard time keeping it this mild.

Nick, I admire you for your good work, but I think she should feel some consequences.

SS

Nick,

Did you send the Plan B letter?

I'm sorry I didn't see it until tonight. It's a very angry, and very judgemental letter. You need to replace all of the "You" statements with "I" statements.

Vent here, but rewrite the letter!!

Dear Nick,
I think your response was excellent. I wouldn't engage your wife with the blame game.

It's simple. You are separated. It's possible your child may mention it to her teachers. However, as the separation is very recent, your wife has ample opportunity to meet with your child's teacher to explain the situation if she wishes to.

I think your explanation to your child is honest.
I think it's good you are away from a very toxic situation. Your wife will probably be furious at you for daring to leave the triangle.

Take some deep breaths and take care of your health and psyche! Stay strong!

All of you – many, many thanks for reading my posts, empathising with me and giving me advice. Thanks!

Brit Brat – I agree fully with you. D deserves to know the truth, and if she chats and talks about it, so what.

Star*fish – you know, I have one big regret, and it’s something which I completely missed. Of course you’re absolutely right – I should have told people a long long time ago!!! Instead, I sort of became her accomplice in hiding everything and keeping it a secret. The truth, and what people make of it, is hitting her now very hard.

Still Seeking – Ha ha! That’s what went through my head too, you know! How on earth can she lecture me about what’s good for the child when she is doing her utmost to destroy the family and not even giving it a try?? PS – we went to MC during a three month period. However, we stopped it when the MC threw in the towel and said he cant continue as we don’t have a common goal (mine was reconciliation, or at least trying to reconcile, whilst WW’s goal was “discover and understand her feelings” and generally not giving a damn about our relationship).

Bramble Rose – oooopsss too late. Is the letter really that bad? You know, WW always told me I’m judgemental. Hmmmmm. Well, at least the letter came straight from my heart and I wrote what I am feeling. I could have written less, but not sure if I could have written it a lot differently without sounding phoney

Espoir – yes, I’m definitely not going to argue with her about blame. At most, I’ll send a one-line email telling when and where to pick up daughter, and that’s it.

First night at my new place – slept like a baby. In the morning, the water in the shower was ice cold, as the landlord switched off the boiler. Arghhhhh. But nothing beats a cold shower in the morning anyway.

Yesterday, my WW called my mobile and I didn’t answer. She left a longish voice mail instead – where she utterly complained why I told her niece (who is 18y old and staying with us as an au-pair). She was absolutely raving furious that I told her, saying that she is still a child (at 18?), doesn’t understand because she is from a different culture (where adultery is viewed the same way?), and that I “didn’t have the right to tell her because she is from my (ie, WW) family” (ah, OK, so I need permission to speak to anyone from her family, right?).

Pressed 6 and # and the gentle female voice from the phone company cooed “message deleted – you have no more messages”

Nick,

Yes, it's going to be a rude awakening and bound to send shock waves through her neat little world as the secret gets out. Just keep deleting those angry messages....I have a feeling you'll get quite a few. Did you consider sending the copy of you Plan B letter to her family? I know that's what cerri had ALS do....copies to the family and a letter to the OM.

hmmm Reality bites.

Is your dear W in la la land or what? Since when are you responsible for keeping her secrets?

Reality is she had an affair, wouldn't commit to reconciling her marriage, and continues to see and contact other men. Hence a separation. Which could have actually been a divorce by now- but for your extraordinary commitment to attempting to salvage your marriage.

I hope separation will give you some perspective on your wife's behavior which at times sounds irrational and manipulative. There is a very strange dynamic going on here Nick. You need to figure out what it is and avoid it in future relationships. It is not healthy.

Second night at the new place. Looks like I didn’t switch on the boiler properly yesterday – another cold shower. Argghhhhh.

Starfish – now, that’s an interesting thought. Haven’t thought of informing her brother & sisters directly, neither have I thought of telling OM. What’s the school of thought here? Wont it seem and sound very revengeful and mean?

Espoir – spot on with your diagnosis of ‘irrational’ and ‘manipulative’. I’m intrigued by your comment re ‘strange dynamic’….could you elaborate? Don’t hesitate to tell me what you think – always keen on getting a alternative perspective on things.

Thanks guys.

Shower works now. Pheeew. I'm doing pretty well - 7 days w/o contact to WW. Enough suffering from seeing WW being in contact with OM. Never again.

Tomorrow D will come over for a 2 nights sleep over - will be good fun.

Nick-

Good for you, sounds like you're holding up well. Don't be afraid to call on friends and family for the next few weeks/months as they can be a tremendous support network for you. You mentioned awhile back that your W is in the catbirds seat but I wouldn't be so sure. Only time will tell of course but the fact that you pulled off a good plan A could leave you with some tough decisions down the road. One day at a time though right? Have fun with your D this weekend, maybe make some time to settle behind a pint or two of Samuel Smiths! They just started stocking that brand in the local grocery and wow, what a great beer! It's brewed in Yorkshire from what I recall.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Starfish – now, that’s an interesting thought. Haven’t thought of informing her brother & sisters directly, neither have I thought of telling OM. What’s the school of thought here? Wont it seem and sound very revengeful and mean?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Nick, I think the school of thought here is that exposing affairs....to everyone....is the best way to end affairs since they flourish in secrecy. Revenge is a motive....so if your motive is made clear....that being that you seek to end the affair, not the marriage...and that it isn't your desire to punish but destroy the secrecy so that you have some chance of rebuilding your marriage, then the only one who will view this as mean is your wife. Afterall, what kind of guilt or consequence does she have to face at this point? I think you can clearly expose this as long as it isn't your desire to just be done with it and move on....if that's the goal....what's the point except punishment. If you are trying to save this marriage, and your spouse refuses to end the affair...I think you should uncover her duplicity so that she has some interest in facing these actions and the consequence to everyone....not just her. Because you waited on this....as I stated before, use some care....but I still think it should be done.

^^^

It’s been now over a week at the new place – and I feel quite tired, but absolutely, definitely relieved. I enjoy breathing the free air, free of recriminations, blame, abuse, stress and anger. I enjoy returning to my flat in the evening without the prospect of another emotionally charged discussion with a predictable outcome. What a difference a few miles and a week can make. I start looking at things from a different perspective. No big conclusions yet, only that I know now that yes, I had a life before I met my wife 12 years ago, and I will have (and do have!) a life without her now. Emotionally I’m doing pretty well I think, but I cant deny that I think every day several times about our relationship, to what happened, to what could have been, to what she did to me. But bottom line is that I have this tremendous light and liberated feeling, and I feel proud of having escaped this vicious circle and finally having stood down my foot and said ENOUGH.

Over the weekend I had my daughter over for a first sleepover. Again, I felt so relieved to be with her, and just with her, without my wife trying to tell me how I’m not doing things properly as a father, that I dressed her too warmly, too lightly, that she absolutely needed sun cream, that she shouldn’t do this but do that instead and why I am not responding to her needs (I think I mentioned that she always had a ‘monopolistic’ approach to her being a parent, criticizing me in my father role and in the past 7 years not once telling me that I am actually a good dad).

Needless to say, we had a great day.

All this I only start seeing now as I emotionally am getting some distance from her. I should have moved out earlier, actually, but couldn’t as you know. Now I did it.

My daughter told me that “mum is sad that I moved out, and that she doesn’t love OM anymore, and that she is sorry”. Obviously, she isn’t in a very good state emotionally, but whether it is wishful thinking from my daughter or the truth, I don’t know. In any case this has nothing to do with me anymore – unless she starts being serious about our relationship.

WW accepted straight away that I don’t want to see/speak to her and made no attempt whatsoever to reply to my letter or engage me into any conversations. Our communication is reduced to 1 or 2 line emails to figure out who picks up daughter where and when, and to settle some final financial things (like, a bill which she has to pay but was addressed in my name). At some point she tried to see me while handing over daughter, but I arranged it such that I only would see our au-pair. Once she called early in the morning and I picked up the phone instead of putting it to voice mail – again, simple logistical stuff which I kept to the absolute minimum and then hung up.

I keep on telling friends what is happening, not blaming or spreading gossip or anything, but simply explaining why I had to move out. Everybody is very shocked, as everybody thought of us being a model couple/family, how well we were handling things and being together as a family etc. Some hardly believe can what happened (myself still included). In a few weeks there's the so called 'field day' in my daughter's school where my mother will fly in too. I stopped contact with my family too - I don’t blame them for the problems I have with my wife, but, and I needed to say this, their actions were repeatedly and constantly unhelpful and were putting additional strain onto our relationship. Both my sister and mother said very hurtful things and sometimes treated my wife and our child unequally. If these actions were not intentional, then at least they made no real effort of un-doing them. Mother is very concerned and wants to help mending things etc, I'll definitely meet her when she is over, but not much more. Ditto with my sister. I’m just so fed up with it all, you know.

Litchfield – thanks for checking in. Yes, had a few over the weekend, it was simply outstanding weather here. Sam Smith is OK-ish, but there are a few other brews which are even better….

Star*fish – with regard to ‘revealing’ this is one regret I have, you know. I kept it a secret, outwardly we continued to be the happy couple which we were clearly not. Why? 2 reasons I suppose – for starters, it is embarrassing. Secondly, I thought of offering her an easy way out of this mess. But unfortunately, it all turned into the opposite and just kept feeding her secret other life.

Hi Nick

I just wanted to let you know I was thinking of you. I have been incredibly busy with work and organising a charity ball in July, plus the usual round of stuff like Nisi on Friday and actually speaking with H this week for the first time in over 3 months!! I keep threatening to post a update and then run out of time!!

I am glad to hear you are settling into your new place. It is inevitable that you will think about your M, but a little bit of space and peace can make an awful lot of difference to your general wellbeing. I am also glad you had such a good time with your D - wasn't the weather fab!! I went cycling and even sunbathing in the back garden.

I also think telling the truth to friends and family is important. It is not about telling tales but about being honest with the people who care about you.

Keep up the good work and I'm glad your sorted the shower out - would have been damn smelly in this weather if you didn't!!

Take care friend.

Lisa

Nick just letting you know am reading your story. When you make the break it's tough. Think about some IC for you or maybe go to Relate for individual support. It made a huge difference to me.

Try and pin down arrangements re: Daughter as fast and efficiently as possible as that will make a big difference too.

Best Wishes Neil.

nick,

I did check up to read your update. It is gratifying and inspirational to others who are also struggling to know that Plan B is really about you....protecting you, removing you from the emotional roller coaster...and giving you some much needed peace. It can also become very lonely....but that's something that you will benefit from tackling and learning to enjoy being alone without the aching lonliness that being in the same room with someone you love...and still be lonely can evoke. At least your lonliness is understandable now.

I am so pleased that you have maintained no contact....this is what most people find the hardest to do....and the most important part of this plan. Without no contact, the pain has no chance to heal, but is prodded and picked every day. Take this time to concentrate on your own well being and having your needs met in ways that are healthy. Recognize your vulnerability, but go out and feel free to experience the freedom from constant conflict and emotional overload.

My thoughts and prayers are with you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ June 17, 2003, 11:11 PM: Message edited by: star*fish ]</small>

Nick -- I've been a bit out of touch with all that has happened in the last month, but I did want you to know I've tried to keep up with your situation.

I am glad you are feeling some relief by being out of the house and off the roller coaster. You are feeling better and was glad to read that your visit with your daughter/sleep over went well.

You will have up and down days, but you already know that. You can be strong and maintain no contact, which have had done admirably the first week or so -- that is the hardest juncture to maintain no contact.

It has been an amazing journey from last spring and I only hope that things keep getting better for you.

Peace.