Thank You K for being there these last few days.
I am very hurt right now and don't think it a good idea that I continue to post on MB.
I can't post without feeling like I need to be heard after all that the H has said.
I am not one to sling dirt for so long.
I just need some help is all.
I took a divorce recovery class at a church and learned alot about myself while I was there.
Learned alot about why my marriage went wrong.
Mistakes I will continue to make if I don't face certain demons I have brought in from my childhood.
I am not only dealing with the H, OM, OC, not being able to see my children. I am dealing with a pattern that I am so desperatly trying to break.
My marriage is all but over.
I can't be on my knees for a man who did so little to keep his vows to me that day on the mountain in Hawaii.
I can only ask that he and his family forgive me.
I must move on.
As painfull as it is.
I was never running from OM.
I just wanted a new start.
One I know that I will have to provide for myself.
In all of everyones anger and pain.
Please remember that it took 2 of you to bring your children into this world.

Always,
Angela

<small>[ June 06, 2003, 12:34 PM: Message edited by: lucidity ]</small>

Lucidity-

You know that I am willing to listen....

I am there 'cause you need a friend.

I've been there, I've done that...I can help you face that legacy that you are living.

You CAN break the cycle...I did.

One thign you have to realize is that you need to do thid for YOU. Not OM, not H, and not even kids. For YOU. They will all be affected by it, but if you want to be whole, you can be...

I am here...Just ask.

Kily,
I am suppose to go see my boys on the 13th.
I asked 6 months ago if I can have this time off from work.
I have told the H, but I never get a definate answer from him.
Do I just show up on Saturday.
Or do I have to wait until last minute for him to give me the okay.

Do I just show up on Saturday.
If you just show up on Saturday & he's not there, then what?

Call him before then & get a FIRM answer about it.

Lucidity-

Is there any kind of custody agreement in place? I think that H should give you the answer that you asked for well within a reasonable time frame. If he hasn't, and there is no agreement, then there is nothing preventing you from seeing your kids.

I think it's really sad that they are in the middle. They should be able to have access to both parents, as much as they need to. This was what was reinforced repeatedly in my court ordered parenting class.

I do believe that unless one parent is a risk to the children, then they should be shared.

Granted I don't have all of the details...and perhaps your H has his reeasons. For you to ask 6 months in advance and take time from your job sounds like an awful lot of effort to see those kids. I hope you Do get to spend time with them.

Hope I helped...

Lucidity:

Be fair and be kind, be loving when dealing with your H. Regardless of how you really feel at the time for now. It will help you move on to more kinds, loving and helpful places with him... married or seperated or divorced.

Sounds great you went to Divorce Recovery. Keep that christian mindset in mind. All things are possible with God. Pray. I too have been through some ridiculous, immature incidents with my love from age 16 on- my wh. We have hurt each other.... gotten drunk, and abused one another... through it we loved each other, but did not know how to have a good marriage. It gets tiring, and we all need a safe place to live, love, parent, and grow...

I know how hard it is.

You can keep the focus on yourself, and you can control how you act in this situation. If you want your M, give it a true try. I suggest more christian counseling, or the Harleys, and hanging out here, and taking care of yourself.

Live respectfully, to your H, the OM, and everyone involved. Respect, and loving kind behavior can do wonders.

I encourage you to grow and create the life you want. It can be done.

I am sorry for the pain and confusion.

Hugs and Hope, Honey

From reading alot here , and learning slowly , I think you already learned a valuable leason. YOU said, "you learned alot about where the M went wrong "

Well thats a huge step that alot of people take along time to see/face and admit .

Working from that start , should give great direction . I do not know your hole story , I did read the "SORRY " post if I am not mistaken it was yours it brought tears to me and you seeem very remorseful and that also is a huge step .

YOU need sometimes to rember to forgive yourself and others will follow . If you love your H , respect and know where to start as far as issues and can communicate , then IMVHO I do not see that saving your M should be a problem . And H as well , I am not saying just you , BOTH must do there share . With work , love and forgivness I think you would do an injustise to yourself , H And children not to try .

Do not be afraid to lean on people .

BE strong , but open to your feelings .

Hi lucidity,

Although I feel that I cannot be a support to you if you and H start marriage rebuilding efforts (because my marriage is not being rebuilt so I do not have experience to help you with that), I feel compelled to throw in my 2 cents.

lucidity, you CAN be heard in this forum! You can also get support while you figure out what you want to do and what you are willing to do.

I skimmed through H2Y's thread (I was not familiar with his sitch) and read your post there. I can understand your feeling that this is "his court" but I can assure you that I have seen other posters in your situation be pleasantly surprised (and sometimes shocked) that they received helpful support and caring in this forum. You can too lucidity, you can too!

Two things jumped out at me from your post above....

One, it sounds like you are in a great amount of emotional pain. I encourage you to hold off making permanent decisions while you are in emotional pain. When we make permanent decisions based on current feelings (especially hurt feelings), we tend to regret or second-guess those decisions later. I saw a lot of regret in your sorry post. I would love to see you seek support for yourself here so that whatever decisions you end up making are decisions you will be content with later on.

Two, you said this:
"I can't be on my knees for a man who did so little to keep his vows to me that day on the mountain in Hawaii."

I have never seen anything in MB principles that supports one spouse being "on their knees" at all. Everything that I have seen in the MB principles teaches how learn to behave in loving ways (learn to start meeting spouse's top EN's) and how to stop behaving in hurtful ways (learn to eliminate LB's). The Four Rules for a Successful Marriage is designed to fill each other's $LB to overflowing. MB principles are NOT one-sided, they are for BOTH spouses to follow no matter what the previous circumstances.

lucidity, I encourage you to learn what the Marriage Builders principles are and to get support while figuring out if that is the kind of marriage you want. If it is, then I encourage you to get support in learning how to apply those principles in your marriage while your H is also getting support in applying those same principles.

Take care lucidity

lucidity,

loving boundaries basically wrote the vey thoughts that I was having.

I hope you can see that by this post, people aren't judging you. Sure there will be some that do...and maybe something that they might say is valid. For the most part though, I've found that people care and they want to simply help, just by listening or giving their opinion.

There are so many questions I want to ask you about YOU. I don;t want to scare you off by doing that though. You are taking a courageous step by being here...please stay. Even if it's just to read.

I am going to bump my original posts here because I think that you can benefit form my experiences. I want you to see what MY journey through the darkness was like. Maybe it can bring you hope.

Hugs...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lucidity:
<strong>
I can't post without feeling like I need to be heard after all that the H has said.
I am not one to sling dirt for so long.
I just need some help is all.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Lucidity: I understand why you feel gunshy about posting here. I know you don't know me, but if you want, you can reach me at cosmovanb@yahoo.com

(((hugs)))

It must be so tough.

One of the great things about the MB forums, is that the "dirt slinging" you mentioned, is also read with the understanding that we all need a safe place to vent. Believe me... my venting on here caused many a rows with my stbxH, because he would throw my own words at me (and I'll admit, many times he'd read them out of context, or misinterpret them altogether... and of course, some of the times, he got the message right. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ).

Marriages involve 2 people. It is extremely rare that only one spouse is to blame for the problems in the M. In fact, one of the first things that tends to be learned about MB principles, is that we ALL have done things to add to the failings of our M's. Both WS's and BS's alike.

The ONLY negativity towards a WS, is that they made the wrong choice to "deal" with issues by having an A. You see, we all understand that the actual A's are merely SYMPTOMS of the failing M... not the cause of it. It sounds to me as though you're aware of this now too. And trust me, so is your H.

I happen to be one of the few on here who is very familiar with your H's side of the story. Notice I've said "HIS side"? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> He's only got 1/2 of the story out here... and much/some of it, is in a venting form... a tossing about of ideas and thoughts. Are facts stated? Perhaps. At least by whomever has stated them... because it's their PERCEPTION of what happened. That doesn't mean the intent was meant to be perceived in the same way. (okay... now I'm getting myself confused! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ).

Lucidity: Please reconsider staying here to learn more about the MB principles, and most importantly, to learn more about yourself. YOU are what matters right now. YOU are the only one who can create changes in YOU, to make YOU a better, happier, and more fulfilled person... no matter what the outcome of your M is.

I for one, will be here to help you along the way, as best I can. All you need to do is ask. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Take care,
Karen

Hi lucidity,

I'm just checking to see how you are doing.

Have you started reading what MB principles are all about? If you have, do you have any thoughts about whether or not that is the kind of marriage you want? Is there any kind of support you would like from this forum while you are figuring that out?

lucidity, again I encourage you to use this forum for support. It breaks my heart that you miss your kids so much. However, marriage rebuilding issues are separate from parenting issues. You don't have to commit to marriage and become a more responsible wife in order to commit to parenting and becoming a more responsible mother.

For those who want custody of their children, the usual advice from friends and attorneys is to move back into the children's home to strengthen their position. I urge you--for your KIDS' sakes, for YOUR sake, and for your kids' father's sake--to keep marriage issues and parenting issues separate. To do otherwise will do more harm than good for your kids and you.

Again, let us know if you would like support while you figure out what you want, and how to work toward getting what you want in a way that is good for everyone involved. I'm sure you already know that your kids are worth that lucidity, and YOU are worth that to!!

Hope to hear from you soon.

Take care