Cali's giving good advice as usual. Try to take it to heart, and stop playing up the victim role so much.

"After all, if MM had not come on to me with this entire business/personal R, then I would not know of or need to blame anyone, would I?" Honey, guess what? I used to dwell on, no hide behind the fact that OM made the first move in our A. I tried to push most of the blame on him, and didn't take responsibility for my choice to have the affair. Now I know better, no one forced me to do anything at gunpoint, I made my own choices to get involved in a relationship that felt sort of good at the time but with big negative consequences for all concerned.

"Maybe after he moves to Florida and starts a R with another OW down there, I will be more objective and realistic and will make unemotional decisions. " You don't have to wait for MM to move to have a shot at being more realistic and objective. It's a matter of choice. You can choose to ditch him now, put him out of your life now, and start detaching now. There's nothing saying you have to wait for him to move before you cut ties and focus on you and your life from this point forward without a deceitful boyfriend.

"I am, in essence, screwed up, to the delight of many." To the delight of who? Certainly not me. I have a reasonable amount of empathy for you actually. I've been the WS, and at the same time the OW, as my OM was a MM too. I can hear that you are very much torn up over this, and do regret where you are now. You've been in this place for years now, so it's going to be a huge step to change the patterns and habits of your life. It's time to be brave and stop being the victim, as hard as that may seem to be.

Perhaps you should seek out some counselling to help you get through this difficult time. I know it helped me to understand myself better and how or why I could ever do something I never would've guessed possible (have an affair).

Jen

suf & Cali,

I think you both oppose one another, but maybe I am wrong. Suf, I doubt MM's marriage will be better by my revelation, but I do agree and breathe a sigh of relief that "truth" is imperative in any relationship. I will acknowledge my part in this, but to actually "make aware" the men in mm's bible study as to what he has been allowing in his life, seems counterproductive. But, by GOD, also seems to be the impetus needed to make him realize what he is doing. I am in HELL. Don't know how I got here...but, have arrived. And I thought you only went to Hell after you died.

I came here for advice, truly. Seems like TOW is a delusional place to exist indefinitely.

I do not want to live. I want to go to a place where deception and dishonesty and unhappiness are not an option.

V

"I do not want to live. I want to go to a place where deception and dishonesty and unhappiness are not an option."

suf and I are not so much on OPPOSITE sides as adjustable ones...

You want to tell MMs wife? I just think there are a bunch of steps for you to do before you get there...

btw... every thing I have read says that taking your own life will not get you to the place where you want to go.

but as for deception, dishonesty and unhappiness... well we are dealing w/ humanity AFTER the fall... it is ALWAYS gonna be out there... but it is how WE live that matters... not how others live. WE must be accountable and take care of our own selves, FIRST... then we can account for others. (speck/log, you know).

Start by separating your business-life from MMs. YOU take the step of not NEEDING him and living without him FIRST.

Cali

Hello vulpine,

I vote for you to NOT make a decision either way at this time. You are in too much pain right now to be sure that you are making a decision you will be content with later.

You said:
"Maybe if I commit suicide he will think about what his indiscretions could lead to...maybe not."

Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. I highly doubt MM would feel anything other than a huge ego boost that you thought he was worth your life. On top of that, he would be able to use his "guilt" about it to tug the heartstrings of new candidates for the OW position. He is NOT WORTH IT vulpine!

I encourage you to examine your true motives for posting here. I am hoping that it is because you want to discover how you made this very bad decision over and over for 3 years, and because you don't want to repeat these mistakes with someone else's husband--and because you want to heal from this so you can have rich, rewarding relationships in your future. Yes, vulpine, I really do wish these wonderful things for you.

You said:
"And now, I am faced with the fact that I not only could compromise my own beliefs and morality, but that I could prolong this emr for almost 3 years now"

If you are willing to face what led you to compromising yourself, it will help you prevent compromising yourself again.

You said:
"but we have formed an S Corp and work together 10-12 hours a day 5-7 days a week"

So basically his wife got his time when he was sleeping and not much more? For the life of me I can't figure out how his wife found the opportunity to neglect him--he wasn't there enough time to be neglected!

Tough question vulpine--if you spent, say, 15 hours a week working with MM and another woman spent "10-12 hours a day 5-7 days a week" with him, who do you think would have been his OW--you or her? I think it would have been her--because only working 15 hours a week with him would probably make him think you were "neglecting" him in comparison to the other woman. In other words, she would be more convenient for him.

You said:
"MM has told me that he plans on moving to Florida next year, which means my services will no longer be needed"

OUCH! I'm sorry for the pain that hearing it put so bluntly has caused you. Unfortunately it is true, but I think he could have been a lot nicer about it. I hope you get support in dealing with the hurt, heal, and then move on to wonderful relationships with much more deserving men.

You said:
"He leads (or as he says, facilitates) a Bible study every Wed morning and attends church every Sunday morning with his W. The hypocrisy of this disturbs me more than anything. I don't pretend to lead women in Bible studies nor do I attend church, so I cannot comprehend this kind of lifestyle."

Did the hyposcrisy bother you for the entire 3 years? When did it start bothering you, before or after the breakup? You said you were "sanctimonious" about others having affairs with MM before doing it yourself. Answering these questions to yourself can help you deal with your own hypocrisy issues and help you heal from them.

You said:
"I would never in a thousand years anticipated finding myself in this sort of situation and I can't seem to crawl my way out."

How many times did you try to crawl out? What happened each time? Answering these questions can help you be successful this time.

You said:
"I am just hurting so much that this man would give me 3 years of his life just to dump me."

Did he "give" you 3 years of his life, really? He was working with you for the vast majority of those hours.

You said:
"He wants to dump me just to start a new R with another OW in Florida once he gets established there."

Does he know her yet, or is just confidant that someone he works will fill the OW role for him? I'm so sorry that it seems you are easily interchangeable with another OW. That is HIS problem, you don't have to make it yours any more. You can heal and never be in this position again.

You said:
"I'm just living in my own personal Hell and I want MM to be held accountable for the pain he has put me through."

Is it really accountablility you want? Did you want him held accountable with his wife during the 3 years he was having an affair with you? Could it be that what you really want is to tell his wife so that it will cause him problems with his next OW (sorta like if you can't have him, no one else can either)? Is this a good reason for you to tell his wife, out of revenge?

You said:
"I guess I am a horrid person, as I want everyone to hurt as much as I hurt right now (not his sons, though...they are innocent)."

You aren't a horrid person, you did a horrid thing--there is a difference. Wanting everyone else to hurt as much as you do is a feeling you can deal with and overcome--don't act on this feeling ok? You are better than that.

You said:
"I guess there is no place for me."

If you want to recover in a way that changes you back to the person who would never do this, then I think THIS IS THE PLACE for you. It is not fun, but other FOW's here have done just that--and some are pretty terrific people! Do you want to do that too? Support is available here for those who are serious and not game-playing.

vulpine, your recovery and healing is about you and for you. What do you want to do?

Take care vulpine

dear loving,

I guess I don't care about working through any of this. I guess I just want to hurt W and then just disappear from the landscape. I will neither post here nor on TOW again. I will be, in essence, another nameless cipher whose life will be measured by her stupid indiscretions. But MM and W will live out their next 30 frustrated years with little understanding of how they hurt and invited strangers into their perfectly dysfunctional lives because they did not want to "work" on their marriage. It won't matter to me, though. I won't be around to see it. I will be in a far better place.
V

vulpine.....

are you here?

post if you are, ok?

vulpine,

You said:
"I guess I don't care about working through any of this."

Maybe not right now, the pain is too raw and intense. I understand, I really do. The pain is more raw and more intense than words can describe, but I understand because I felt it too (after learning FWH had an OW). It gets better vulpine, but maybe check with you dr for meds to help you cope--the first 2-3 weeks were horrendous for me.

You said:
"I guess I just want to hurt W and then just disappear from the landscape."

Why is it his wife you want to hurt? Did she do something to you that you haven't told us? Again, do not act on these feelings ok? You can get support here.

You said:
"I will neither post here nor on TOW again."

I think it's a good idea to stay away from TOW for the time being, but I hope you will stay here for a while and for as long as you need to.

You said this and it's alarming me:
"I won't be around to see it. I will be in a far better place."

vulpine, if you are having suicidal thoughts DO NOT ACT ON THEM OK?!? Call 911 if you are suicidal or if you are not suicidal call a crisis line to help you through the night until you can see a dr tomorrow.

Come back and post to let us know how you're doing ok? This pain is intense, but it does subside. I hope you stay around.

Take care vulpine

vulpine
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> then God must be bringing me into his life to alleviate his predicament. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I don't believe this and I do not believe you
were sent to alleviate anything.
I do believe you both used each other to get your needs met.it is over leave him for the Lord to judge. just pray and let God take care of your emotional needs God will break you kneel by the side of your bed or fall on the floor like I did when I was falling apart from my wayward husband and cry out to God..I wailed I was so distraught I never got to feel the true love of my husband nor make up with him after his last time because he died..and the thing that hurt was in his obituary they listed her as his best friend..that broke my heart..she was there when he died I was denied my son kept me away..she decieded that he needed a simple funeral he was creamated and wanted to have his ashes spread where we use to sail..they did not even give me that after 39 years of marriage she was there at his side and she was at his funeral service.a small one..
am I bitter not any more..I always loved him but you see he used me..too..actually he is like your lover he used everybody..if you didn't do anything for him then forget you..
anyway please please don't harm yourself If I can go on you surley can..just call out to God..
He is just a prayer away...whisper JESUS ....help me..God bless you and please don't give up..
God loves you and all you need to do is repent ask Him to forgive you and if you really mean it, he will.HE will make you whiter then snow.

I imagine you know alot of scripture I have feeling you could quote some if you were here.
I think some way along the way you lost your place in life..

there is one thing you need to know.
you said your felt disenfranchised well you know what most of us here all us betrayed spouses all felt that way too..we also felt suicidal, but we did not have the sin you do hanging on our heads..but we did have sin in our lives..

But God has no ruler for sin...sin is sin..to Him so we are just as much of a sinner as you are.
please consider to take the Lord at HIS WORD and let Him Heal you and Forgive you and give you a new heart and then he will guide you into the right thing to do..

I am sure alot of us here have done things that we are truly shamed about and it is under the blood now..please give it to Jesus and have the peace of God and let Him minister to you and lead you and He will be your comfort and He will be your Jehovah Jireh please He holds His loving arms out to you to gather you and hold you and comfort you and to wipe away all your tears.
he will save them as a memorial in a bottle and He will love you with an everlasting love..

we will be your sisters those who know the Lord and the guys will be your brothers..
Please consider Being washed in the Blood of the Lamb
"1John 1:9 says confess your sins He is faithful and just to cleanse you from all unrighteousness.

it is actually simple to do..HE will forgive <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I think I have something for you if you will accept it..

God says to you, Come to me
Do not harden your heart against me, do not choose to turn away, turn your face to me and be
Holy for I am Holy,Let me guide you, let me lift you over the rough places and prepare smooth paths for your feet, walk not in the paths of the ungodly but walk with me, come I am the way, follow me. Have Faith in me and I will restore you!
Be of good cheer I have overcome the world,
I sit on the throne and I am the Alpha and Omega the beginning and the end..there is no other God, cast down your imaginations and your idols and follow hard after me.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> That is for you.
if you came back and saw this please let me know you did ok and what is happening with you..I care

earthangel@telcomplus.net <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

nice post sadeyes, one never knows for sure, but this thread has the flavor of a trolling situation. Cali mentions seeing her on TOW, so maybe story is true. But her reactions (to the help and illumination provided here) are inconsistent with someone who spent most of her life in a Christian walk, and moral behaviour. She could be in the grips yet of pretty intense anger (and satans confusion), blinded to the truth, but in any event she has recieved what she ostensibly came here for. Hopefully she will think about it, listen to the advice, and take healthy actions.

That was pretty cold not letting you participate or grieve at your H funeral. Regardless of what was right or wrong about you/him or the marriage, it made no difference at that point, he had left this world for whatever fate he has earned....you were entitled IMO to be involved, sorry your son did not understand that. It is too your credit you will not let such embitter you, would serve no purpose, it is good you see that and let it go.

<small>[ June 10, 2003, 07:50 AM: Message edited by: sufdb ]</small>

vulpine, anger, confusion, extreme emotion are normal. Cali and I do not disagree, we are addressing different parts of your circumstance. I am stating principles and requirements for healthy behaviour. She is saying take some time and calm down. I agree with cali, I do not mean for you to tell her (or Bible study) this moment, take a little time to get ahold of yourself. To disgest and sort out your feelings, and the observations of others. To ask God for discernment and direction, time to get away from satans grip. Then you can decide how to actually proceed.

Vulpine...Suf, I doubt MM's marriage will be better by my revelation, but I do agree and breathe a sigh of relief that "truth" is imperative in any relationship. I will acknowledge my part in this, but to actually "make aware" the men in mm's bible study as to what he has been allowing in his life, seems counterproductive.

Suf....We are called upon, and DIRECTED by God to not only be accountable, but to hold our brothers/sisters accountable. The only reason you wouldn't reveal the behaviour of someone in a Christian leadership role is not wanting to face the consequences yourself. You may be called a liar, accused of various hidden agendas, you may experience guilt at his treatment by peers, whatever. All of this is irrelevant, and about satan's influence. If you don't tell, he continues to decieve, that is what satan wants. How do you know you are not the instrument chosen by God to reveal these truths? That is why truth sets free, it is it's own absolute defense, it is always right, it empowers everyone to make healthy choices and changes. Yes, the consequences of revelation can sometimes be pretty intense, but so are the consequences of deception. Do not try to assess the outcome, that will just cause you to be tempted wrongly.

The only time concealment makes any sense is when dealing with dangerous people (psychopaths), and imminent violence is possible when such are thwarted/outed. In such cases one must seek help first (dealing with such individuals by a group, ie the state for example, or the church hierarchy), and maybe even annonymity. You (apparently) have allowed yourself (through human weakness, and poor choices) to be used by this man...you are not the only one, perhaps additional ow, and certainly those in the Bible study who give him undeserved admiration, feeding his ego. His type are legion, and they continue their deceptive lives cause others look away, let someone else deal with it, etc. etc... It is an important part of recovery (for you) to take back your life. Share no secrets with this man, and publicly rebuke him in all areas. He was not sincere, this is not a man who was weak/confused, made a mistake, this is a predator, and deserves nothing. As for his w, we know nothing, maybe she is good, maybe she is not, but one thing is for sure, she cannot work on her marriage if she does not know the facts, so it makes no sense for you to blame her for your being pulled into their dysfunctional relationship. The basis of love is respect, and strength, it is not based on you saving him from his neglectful wife (if that is even true). However, this is a tried and true method of snaring people, getting them to feel sorry for you, so don't feel so bad it worked on you. Caring and helping are good traits, you are now aware they can also be used to manipulate you.