This is a basic question relating to the general marriage in trouble and back to my origanal quesion (JOCK ITCH OR MASTURBATION).
First of all, I feel a need to state that I agree with Dr. Harley in "Honesty at ALL costs", no matter how painful. This is a philosophy I have had for as long as I can remember. This philosophy has kept me from lying, at all costs. Fessing up sucks, so why bother do something that you would want to spill you guts about. I quite honestly, do not understand why any one would bother to lie. Or want to.
Because of the general nature of a liar, when found out, there is a period of denial. Theoretically, this must be a part of the grieving process , I suppose, over the loss of the bubble the liar was hiding themself in. Right?
My H is a liar from the get go. He would lie about the color of the sky if it benefitted him. And then, if taken out doors, shown the sky by a meteorologist, he would come up with some cover-his-butt answer, like "it was cloudy two seconds ago, besides you are imagining the color, it is really cloudy still". My H has lied to me about his previous marriage and how "perfect" it was. She was only unfaithful that one time,(She was sleeping around from the very beginning.) HE had her on a pedistal and they communicated effectively (She would shut herself up into the bedroom at night while he was king of the remote), She is so nice (she even sleep with the next door neighbor's, such-a-good-friend's husband)(And she has gone so far as to tell the 5yr old whom we have custody of the one of my good friends has horns and is evil after the X punched my friend in the face for trying to get her husband back.) He lies about whether or not he drinks to his parents (I realize that this is a common lie). He lies aboutwhether or not the children have been behaving (of course they are angels, one and all). He lies about whether or not he has spoken to the X about visitiation with the 5yr old. Lies Lies Lies. And he is a terrible liar to boot, very transparent.
Then, should he get found out. ALL hell breaks out. Then it gets worse. He is ultra defensive. Whatever he has lied about, well that just double folds. He will do anything to prove the person who found out the truth to be the liar. I am accused of being mentally unstable and not trustworthy. I am told that i am beating him over the head. I am just imagining things. And it goes on from there. To the point where I begin to wonder about me.
Why do I love this guy? I don't know, but I do. When he is good, he is very good, but when he is bad......
Taking this in to mind and remembering my origanal letter, I do not know how to go about healing. Because I found him out and it involves our sex life, the rescue sex we had the other night will be the last for approx. 6 weeks. Or until I fall apart again or seduce him. He is probably masturbating twice as much now out of spite and "I will do it if I damned well please, so there!" I could masterbate, but I gave that up about one year ago when I realized that it was a poor substitute for my husband. I would prefer he were there with me. I do take sleeping pills to get me through the nights, that does help. At least I am not lying awake beside him, wanting to get closer.
Do I shower him with affection? Do I seduce him whenever I want sex (I prefer to make love, just plain sex really doesn't do anything for me). I suppose I could conitue to "Make Love" to him while he just has sex. A vessel for his masterbation, lucky me. Do I treat him like a small child and give him continual reassurances when he does something right? This sounds too demeaning, but if it works....
And the communication..... Intimacy? He is so afraid and hides behind illnesses and the remote. We have 3 kids in the house, all of the "quality" time we spend together is chaperoned. When they are out of the way, the TV goes on. He thinks a quality evening is when I am sitting in a chair in the living room while he flips through the stations. If we go out alone, we are out very breifly, because of his stomach, home quickly and the TV goes on. Hand in Hand walks, out of the question, unless they last less than 1 hour, then home to the TV. Did I mention that I HATE the TV at this point! Another mistress. I don't want to spend time with her.
WHAT DO I DO????
HELP!
And, say a prayer for us.
Stay Blessed

Honestly, I say throw the damn tv out the window and get some board games. That's the next best thing to do. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I have suggested that, but he says he doesn't like to play cards or board games. But gosh, he claims that he and the X did it so often. Hmmm......
In my privious life, my children and I did not do TV. o yes, we did have the VCR to watch well choosen movies together, for special occassions. We had a GREAT thing happening, conversations, quality time like you read and dream about, Actually very glad they are not privy to this mess.(They are lots older and on their own now) (And they are very well adjusted)(One in an Ivy League)
He is so "afraid" of intimacy. I used to be not so bad to ahng around with..... Now I am perpetually sad and withdrawn. I wouldn't want to be with me now either. Oh get my own life and show him that I am worth being with? Tried that. He didn't like me any differently. Seems sometimes he would just as soon I have a life without him, gets him off the hook, ya know? Damned if I do and Damned if I don't.

This man to me sounds like he has abandonmint issues not intimacy prob. although on leades to the other. I have this same prob. everyone I have ever loved has left me. I do not even have contact with old school pals. When I met my wife I was very causus and did not beleave that she could really love me and it would only be a matter of time befor she left, and she did. But I realize that it was my lack of faith and trust in her that prevented her from being as close to me as she wanted to be, I kept her at armes length. and maybe that is why I masterbated also, I knew that the one person who could not leave me was me, Wow that was a Revolation!

Hey Chikar,
You replied to two of my quandries Jock itch/masterbation). Thanx. I need to hear from people on the other side of the story. I had come back to the site with the intention of asking anyone to help me get some input from the "betrayer" (used losely'cause the marriage vows were betrayed).
I want to know so much, not to bash the otherside, but to be better able to survive and get past where I am. I have no idea what I am up against.
Yah, now that you mention it, abandonment issues do sound like the key, which unfortunately lead to intimacy issues. His wife of twenty years had string of affairs and left him for a person I never liked, from the day I met him, he destroyed a friend of mine's life in a huge way. H and & did not know oneantother until after she left.
Seduce him? Well, he pushes me away physically as well as emotionally. It is so difficult. He has admitting to rescue-shut-up-sex, he doesn't know the last time he even tried to make love to me. And then when I do get through to him,(he usually thinks he came up with the idea, good for his ego), it is often sex that really has nothing to do with me. Same with other aspects of our "intimacy". I could be any one there with him. I truly do not feel as though it is me who he with. I don't feel like there is a special bond, that no one else could fulfill. So, seduce him, but how do I help him to realize that his is his wife?

I am glad to talk to the other side too saying my wife will not talk to me, I want an Idea of what she is going through also. One thing I know, with me was that I had the 'Just make her happy" sex too. not because I didn't love her or want her but because I was all "sexed" out by the time she was asking. I did not even see I was pushing her away, I saw it as her just being way too needy. This herts soo much to talk about, my wife just left a week ago. I am not sure she could have done anything to pull me out of it. I think now that if she had said that my masterbation was causing a rift that my soon be unrepairable unless something changes. I don't know

Chikar,
Just for info sake, let's try talking to one another as if we were the spouse, and without bashing cause that only drives the wedge deeper.
Are you in therapy or have you made the call to get therapy to address the issue of abandonment? If not, please do.
As far as rescue sex is concerned. There is a thread up in EMOTIONAL NEEDS that is presently dealing with intimacy and it's importance for both genders. I wish that I could take that thread and meld it into this one, but... It has a title that kinda asks "if men can satisfy themselves...." Scaning it over was breaking my heart. I need to go and read it more thoroughly.
"Rescue-shut-up-sex" is the term I have been using for what I have been getting. When the partner is providing that, and if intimacy is important to the other, then I personally can tell the difference. My reason for sex is not the bodily satisfaction alone. It is an exploration or my partner and myself, and how we come together. How well do we trust each other, how safe we feel together, how much will we protect one another and what gives my H that curl your toes climbing the ceiling feeling. The old fashioned romp is a great thing, when two people are secure OR when nothing intimate is at stake.
I have a question for you, on those occassions when you, in your mind, planned a romantic scenerio for later that evening, and your wife said she would be late, and you lost patience, and you dealt with it your self, alone... HAd you thought that waiting for her, regardless might be the best thing? And if you did just to be greeted with "I'm too tired" had you though that maybe a gentle embrace, all night long might be in order? And don't forget the sweet nothings in the ear, "I know you are tired, honey, Let me hold you until you fall asleep. I love you so much..." With no pressure to releive your needs. That is saftey for her. That means you trust her. You are protecting her in two ways, you are holdong her while she sleeps and not sneaking off to take care of your own needs just because you didn't get your way. You will survive a LOOOONG time with out ejaculating, really.
Masterbation, in my opinion, is a wonderful thing, as long as it does not take away from your daily life. Like a supplement, and escepicially cool if shared with that speical someone. In this case, absence does make the heart grow fonder.
As far as your wife being too needy, (Remember I am using my H and my experience 'cause that's what I know) Was she needy in the Intimacy area, and not necessarily with sex? With your issues, could she have been craving intimacy? Rescue sex just pushes me away. Makes me feels USED and unimportant. I want intimacy, I want to take long walks holding hands, I want to snuggle up with out the TV on, on the couch and just feel the closenenss os my H. I want to know, not a Hallmark Special biography get to know you conversation, but what makes my H tick and what makes me tick conversation. I want to be able to talk about me and feel safe that it won't be judges just because my H is so afraid of my not being the perfect one for him and and not afraid that he will learn more about me a perhaps, heaven forbid, fall in love. I want to giggle over a game of fih and a bowl of pop-corn. I want to feel like my H anmd I have a unique connection, that he can not get anywhere else.
No , you have to do the work to get to the place where you trust a woman enough to just simply know that she will not abandon you. I can tell, from my situation, that I have two choices . I can either leave cause unless H does some work, he will never trust me. OR I can stick around and wait, 'cause I love him so much, for the rest of my life, But unless H does some work, we will never get any closer, and even after I have died and he is sitting around, going over his life, unless he does some work, he will be sad and tortured 'cause he will imagining all the scenerios when I was probably thinking of leaving. I would have just spent the rest of my life with him, proven that i would never leave the marriage, yet.... No happy comforting memories, just self torture. Sounds like a good life? Huh?
Make an appointment to talk to someone NOW. If you have any contact with your wife, just mention that you are doing this when it is absolute, and not just a thought. DO NOT ELABORATE. i don't know why, just don't unless she asks kind questions. Then keep it brief.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 2ndfiddle:
<strong> Are you in therapy or have you made the call to get therapy to address the issue of abandonment?.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, I really just realized I had thease prob.s and have been to councling twice in about a week.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>"Rescue-shut-up-sex" is the term I have been using for what I have been getting. When the partner is providing that, and if intimacy is important to the other, then I personally can tell the difference. My reason for sex is not the bodily satisfaction alone. It is an exploration or my partner and myself, and how we come together. How well do we trust each other, how safe we feel together, how much will we protect one another and what gives my H that curl your toes climbing the ceiling feeling.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is true for me too I don't Just want to "Get off" I want to express my love for my wife. But there was a time, and I am not sure when it started, that I felt like she was just useing me. and that she was doing me a favor by letting me have sex with her. and this is the point were things really started to go astray.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> I have a question for you, on those occassions when you, in your mind, planned a romantic scenerio for later that evening, and your wife said she would be late, and you lost patience, and you dealt with it your self, alone... HAd you thought that waiting for her, regardless might be the best thing? And if you did just to be greeted with "I'm too tired" had you though that maybe a gentle embrace, all night long might be in order?.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes actually and when I did cutle up to her I was "too hot" or "your arm is too heavy" we have a Black lab and she was more interested in cutling up with him than me. after being shuved away for so long I started thinking I was unattractive and worthless and that I was not satifying her because I was not "man" enugh, I origanally started masterbating to increase my stamina for her.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> As far as your wife being too needy, (Remember I am using my H and my xperience 'cause that's what I know) Was she needy in the Intimacy area, and not necessarily with sex?.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It just seemed at the time that what ever I did was Wrong. If I cutled she wanted sex when I tryed sex she wanted to cutle. She would not talk to me, and when she tryed, If I did not react in the exact way she expected, she would get mad. One time she had bought this new nighty that was really sexie, she put it on and came out to the living room. when I saw her I said "Wow, were did you get that?" she turned, went in the bathroom and took it off and put on her flanal PJs. I imeadiatly went to her and asked what was wrong. she said "WERE DID YOU GET THAT??!!, That was your reaction!?" I apoligised and she would not except it. she went to bed at 8pm that night. I followed her in to just Cutle with her and she turned and cudled up with the dog. I tryed for days to make it up to her the best I could but nothing worked, then one day she came home as though nothing was wrong, and told me she was sorry for blowing up at me.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> I want to take long walks holding hands, I want to snuggle up with out the TV on, on the couch and just feel the closenenss os my H.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She did too and I did not but I surly would now given the chance. I did not see it as all that important, now I do.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>I want to know, not a Hallmark Special biography get to know you conversation, but what makes my H tick and what makes me tick conversation. I want to be able to talk about me and feel safe that it won't be judges just because my H is so afraid of my not being the perfect one for him and and not afraid that he will learn more about me a perhaps, heaven forbid, fall in love. I want to giggle over a game of fih and a bowl of pop-corn. I want to feel like my H anmd I have a unique connection, that he can not get anywhere else.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">See here is our problem. she dose not want to do this. I have always fought to get her to talk to me, but she hates talking about her feelings.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">[QB]Make an appointment to talk to someone NOW. If you have any contact with your wife, just mention that you are doing this when it is absolute, and not just a thought.[QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Maybe you can help me with this. I spoke with her Sat. and she said she would look for a marriage councler and it would not hert if I looked for one too.(HOPE!! right??) well I found one. He was busy, so I made an appointment I knew we could both keep. I called her and told her I made an apointment because he was soo busy, but it was opened so that she could call and make sure it was someone she was comfertable with. she said "I did not say I would GO to counceling, just that we could LOOK for a counceler" How did I mess this up?? I do not understand why you would look for a councler with no intention of seeing one. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Chikar,
I don't know how to do the quote thing and don't have time to attmpt right now. Sorry
Hey you and I sound more like we have more incommon than other. BIG HUGS!!!!
Hey go to the marriage counselor and explain the situation, she suggested, you followed through, she did not attend, but here you are!!!! Let's do some work.
Look for a marriage counselor, make an appointment??? If my H suggested I look for a MC I would jump at the opportunity and make the appt. I see no prob with that.
Doing everything wrong, I am the Queen at that one. I can't even comb my hair the right way.
oooo. sounds like the little lady has some issues to work thru too.
Hey did you ever take the buyer, renter freeloader test that CERRI put in general questionsII late last week? COOL BEANS!!! Could be reasssuring. and eye opening.
YOU ARE ON THE RIGHT TRACK, as far as I can tell. But then again, I am speaking from the perspective of "If only my H would..."
stay blessed, the H will be home for lunch soon and would be soooo pissed off if he thought I was airing his dirty laundry.

Well actually she sayed that she could see how suggesting to look for a councler would imply she would see one so she will go.(Yea !!)
yes we are much alike nice to know I am not alone
and I took the test, buyer,renter,freeloder and got a 9,2,2 not too bad. I wish I could send it to her
I have read soooo much on this site that applyes to us but she is soo distant and cold right now that anything I do is just me "Minipulating her into doing what I want" even if it is from someone else she sees it as me trying to make her do something by "waring" her down.

Yah i hearyou there. no matter what i do, sit tight and not "nag", just let's H believe all is perfect. Address a concern, stone walling and silence and accusations of my imagining and being mentally unstable and why can't i just let things go. seduce him only to be brushed away. not seduce him only to be asked why not, he always says yes, yah right. allow him to seduce me, then it's all about him. suggest how he could please me, then he just can't satisfy me and i am too hard to please. comb my hair this way, i like it but... ask for intimate time, but i don't like to do that. watch tv with him, that IS quality time, besides he took time for me at lunch (i forgot that there was a strict quota)(the kids always eat lunch with us)(i hate TVs)
I am sooooo tired. I need a vacation