Star,

My H has never said it was a decision between the two of us. He has always told me that he has no intentions of leaving me. H has always told me there is no comparsion..simply stated I am his wife. Now of course I dont fully understand this and I really cant believe anything he says, but nevertheless he has said this to me many times. I am now 4 months since D-day and hoping like Dr. H says "most A die a natural death by 6months after exposure."

H has always told me since D-Day his biggest problem is how and why this could happen. He says he really doesnt get anything from OW that he doesnt get from me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> . H has been in IC since the first week of March working on issues he has.

Yes I agree that timing is everything..and that is what I am trying to figure out right now. All I know is that I feel better about myself than I have in a very long time, and H is noticing and commenting alot about it. I guess at this point I can only take it day by day and lean on my support system when I need to. Talk t o you soon...thanks for the input.

L

HEY LISA , GLAD to see you are picking up around hear . I was sad to here about your fri,. night and well can deffinately relate .

HEARING you say you where trash bagging him , well he deserved it and you handled your self well , sitting down and thinking it through again .

I told you you will always know when YOU are ready for PLAN B ..

YOU sound much stri=onger and confident and that is wonderful , do not loose sight of it even if he stops telling YOU .

SO we talked about the summer being the possiable dead line is that what you are comfortable with ??

If so i told you as long as you are strong enough then I think PLAN A till then is a good thought , THEN you can think of what COFFEE said, PALN B would be the way to go if CONTACT has not stoped .

Leaveing him with that last full summer of fun with the kids and you and having him rember that will be the perfect exit to PLAN B ..

I would think in advance to have PLAN B letter writen and ready to go right after that ..

I would have to say from experiance after that if contact has not stoped and he is home then he is fence sitting and cake eating with no consiquences . YOU are strong enough to put all your ducks in a row and be prepared . PLAN A your a$$ off until then .

I don't want to through anything negitive your way , but you mentioned several times our situations are almost exact . SO I will say this my WS has always said, there is no choice , he chooses me I am his W . YOU know I was told so many times actions speak louder then words .

JUST because he lives here does not mean he chooses me , if he sees her ..

SO please keep an open mind , mine some times closed .

Ok thats it and good luck I will be checking .

ALWAYS rember to live your life with your family no matter what he does , do not be involved with there A . IT IS THERES . THERE HEADACH THERE DRAMA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

3

Thanks for checking in..Yes I do think I am strong enough to go through the summer. I do feel if I keep plan A'ing my a$$ off until then, Plan B will not seem so devastating to me and my family. I am taking care of H with kid gloves right now and also making sure I take very good care of myself.

To 3 or anyone else-I have a question about plan A. It is my understanding that I am removing myself from their A. Its their A, their situation and as 3 puts it their drama. Here is my question though-do I totally ignore the fact that there is still contact and seeing of each other or do I question him about them. I have been ignoring the A and this seems to sometimes bother my WH. I think he thinks I am avoiding it. But if I am to question him I dont get anything but babble or no response at all. I am not avoiding it I am just not letting it consume my very being. Any thoughts on this would be great because I just want to make sure I am doing this right..my M is at stake here.

L

I am so confused...are there folks on this board who have had as flagrant of a cake eater as Lisa's H and then had a full complete recovery without ever having to go to Plan B? If so what made the WS come to their senses? How did the BS feel respect for themselves after? How did they ever find their way back to respecting and trusting their spouse?

It's one thing to get lost and have an A...it seems different to me if they have an A...rub spouse face in it and keep seeing and sleeping with the OP! How is that love??? What kind of a person does that, especially one with children and who's been in IC? What type of IC justs sits back and let's this happen???

I'm sorry to if I seem unkind or judgemental but I don't think I would be able to survive the type of pain and humiliation Lisa's H is putting her through!

Lisa..what does he say about his kids...are some of those 5 kids the both of yours or his??? What does he think this is doing to them...he can't possibly think they don't know what's going on???

How are or able to act normal around him???

I FEEL SO BADLY FOR YOU!!!!

<<<<<<BUMP>>>>>

need some answers to the question I posted yesterday 6/16..

Thanks

L

{{{{{{{{{{BUMP}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

JUST for one minute do not think of PLAN A OR PLAN B OR ANYTHING AND PRAY WITH ME ----

DEAR LORD I pray for wisdom to understand my MAN

Love to forgive him

Patience for his moods

Because Lord if I pray for STRENGTH
I'LL BEAT HIM TO DEATH !!! LOL LOL LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

OK had to share with you , and I hope made you laugh for a minute . If I didn't I am sorry .

OK BYE , I am sorry some times I go off the subect of seriuos need to laugh it is good for the soul ..

3,

That is so funny..my mom just e-mailed me that yesterday....I think I should forward it to My WH.

But seriously..I wish someone would answer my questions on this thread about PLAN A. I just want to make sure I am doing it right. I really have not said anything about this whole situation in about 3 days now. I have been doing things for myself...finally got my nails done and highlighted my hair. HOORAY!!! Feel like I am ready for anything. If you talk to anyone..please ask some vets to respond to my PLAN A question.

I will tell you this though H has been very on edge these past couple of days. Not at me though. Last night while H was working he called ME because he needed to talk to me because he has not been doing very well lately and feels very depressed. We talked for awhile and I told him I loved him and was here for him and he said I know.

Today we were outside before he went back to work and his cell phone rang and I knew it was OW by the ring. He didnt hear it. All I said was your phone just rang..he picked up the phone and saw who called made a face and threw the phone across the truck. Could there be trouble in paradise??? Not getting my hopes up though.

3, there is one more factor I need to share with you..now I am the one who has not gotten her friend yet..about 5 days late. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Hope recovery is still going well..I read your thread everyday..dont always have time to respond..too many kids..

Take care..HUGS to you
If you get a chance..answer back.

LISA TAKE A TEST ASAP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OK I am no expert on PLAN A so I hope I do not srew this up.

It is my understand , that YOU should NOT ASK ABOUT A .. NO talk of OW .

IF H wants to talk , listen and if it is to hurtful and disrespectfull tell him so .

I was told that it is not a LB to separte your self from the A .

THIS is his ..

I do wish ORCHID , COFFEE , CHRIS ,ARK some vets would answer this one to give you a more articulate answer .

ALL the rest doing for you are great things , MEETING his needs and setting bounderies .

THROUGHING the cell phone .....HHHHHMMMMMMM

YES could be a fight , could be alot of things ,

Please answer my question???

WHAT is the status of what OW knows ,,

HIM HOME ??? knows about you to working on M ??

MC ??? and what is going on there?

Also what about his IC , ? I mean he has been going awhile is this IC helping ???

PLEASE answer so others get a clear picture to help you better ....

GET an test .. AND not having sex is not a LB , it could be a boundery (I think )

ANY thing from anyone ????

Lisa you might want to consider implementing some of Michelle Weiner Davis's suggestions for the BS on her 180 degree list (they complement Plan A quite nicely). Here's the list:

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or
implore!.
2. No frequent phone calls.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage.
4. Do not follow him around the house.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future.
6. Do not ask for help from family members.
7. Do not ask for reassurances.
8. Do not buy gifts.
9. Do not schedule dates together.
10. Do not spy on spouse.
11. Do not say "I Love You".
12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get
busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.
17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he will be missing.
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him someone he would want to be around.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on
hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).
21. Never lose your cool.
22. Don't be overly enthusiiastic.
23. Do not argue about how he feels (it only makes their feelings stronger).
24. Be patient.
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.
26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out.
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).
28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly
29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest
CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than anywords you can say or write.
30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because he is hurting and scared.
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes.

TMCM,

Thanks that helps very much..I will print it out and read it each morning.

3, to answer some of your questions: Yes OW has known about me since day way. Yes she knows he still lives here. I have talked to her a few times. The last time was about a month ago and I called her and talked to her for about 1 hr. I told her H and I were in MC, she seemed alittle shocked when I said it.

H does not talk to much about IC..I dont ask and then eventually he talks about his sessions. Our next MC appt. is next Friday..Dr. has been away on vacation for the past couple of weeks.

Talk to you later.

L

Lisa here's a link to a post titled Hey CarolKH... can you elaborate on your story? from CarolKH which depicts her experience with the 180 degree approach. I hope it helps.

LISA read the link COFFEE sent you its great !!

I think the 180 really works well and you can still PLAN A it is what I was doing the past 2 weeks when I was hanging on the PLAN B . JUNE dead line . I feel it helps .

AND if you will go to PLAN B end of summer this would be a good time to do it , as your getting stronger and WS is seeing a difference .

OH and how weird is this OW , she knows you are working on M why is she still calling ???

IS WS telling her you 2 are working on it ???

THATS where our situation is very different ,, OW does not know ( or supposedly don't know ) he is home or even with me .

HE does not want her to feel as though he dumped her to go back to W , cause thats what everyone worned her of . (SMART PEOPLE)

ANYWAY read the 180 suggestions , there is web site on it also . DIVORCEBUSTING.COM ( I think thats the web adress )

OH nails and hair great thing ,,, now waxing and facials LOL

Coffee:

Thanks for the post..that was incredible. I get the idea.

L

Hope my radical 180's gave you some ideas. They really worked for me. In fact they were so successful and I was having SO much fun being the object of my H's admiration, that I kinda hated to let him come home, LOL. But I eventually did and he has been back 2 yrs now and we are doing great. Yesterday I even got a little "love" card from him in the mail--it said, "The best part of my day is loving you." Now isn't that sweet?

Carol

Lisa: I wanted to offer you hope and tell you to keep on with the 180, it does work! I am getting closer to reconciliation- and the ow is long gone. I hate what I have been through, but I am stronger for it.

Hope to you, take care of you right now.

Honey

Hey Carol, I'm very happy to see that you're still lurking about, and about your M being a very happy one. Come and say Hi once in awhile, ok?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> To 3 or anyone else-I have a question about plan A. It is my understanding that I am removing myself from their A. Its their A, their situation and as 3 puts it their drama. Here is my question though-do I totally ignore the fact that there is still contact and seeing of each other or do I question him about them. I have been ignoring the A and this seems to sometimes bother my WH. I think he thinks I am avoiding it. But if I am to question him I dont get anything but babble or no response at all. I am not avoiding it I am just not letting it consume my very being. Any thoughts on this would be great because I just want to make sure I am doing this right..my M is at stake here.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Lisa,

Let me say this loud and clear....NO you do not ignore this affair. A big part of Plan A is CONFRONTATION. Now that doesn't give license to LB, but you must continue to tell your spouse that it hurts you....it hurts his family. Even if it's stating the obvious...DO IT. He must be aware of how his decisions affect you. Don't worry about his response....it is irrelevant babble, but shouldn't stop you from making your feelings and your desires known.

Here are cerri's guidelines for Plan A:

Plan A as Harley meant it to be...

Plan A is not (repeat NOT) about making the WS happy, or feeling good.

Plan A is NOT, contrary to popular (and very incorrect opinion), about "making yourself a better person," or "working on yourself."

Plan A is ALL ABOUT the straying spouse. In Willard Harely's ever brilliant words, Plan A is a stategy to end the affair and to entice the straying spouse to reconsider the marriage.

So, it has several elements that should be done at the same time.

First is to eliminate LBers and to meet needs as best you can... recognizing that the unfaithful mate may not allow the betrayed partner to meet needs.

Second is to CONFRONT the unfaithful partner with what you know. Doing so (of course) in a way that is respectful and about you... how you feel, how you are affected by the affair.

Third is to expose the affair to the scrutiny of the world. The lover's spouse or s/o, coworkers, family, friends, church family, children, etc.

ALL OF THAT is Plan A. And it should be done as much as possible simultaneously. (If you don't believe me call the radio show Mondays and Thursdays at 1pm Central Time and ask Dr. Harley for yourself.)

Plan A must have a deadline. It's called Plan "A" because there is a second step... aptly named Plan "B." Willard Harley suggests a max of 6 months for men and 3 months for women before going to the next step. If Plan A hasn't worked in that time, it's not going to.

(I challenge you to find anyone who has done Plan A longer than that and been successful. I define successful as the A ending, n/c promised and verified, and the couple working a good recovery plan which includes meeting needs, eliminating LBers, getting in 15 hours a week of UAT, and most importantly following POJA.)
--

--
Plan A is not about being a nice guy. Plan A is about ending the affair.... being a nice guy is part of that, but only part. That's why confronting and exposing are crucial elements of Plan A... and if you're not doing those things then you can't really say that you're doing Plan A.

I hope this helps!

<small>[ June 20, 2003, 12:05 AM: Message edited by: star*fish ]</small>

Yeah...Starfish!! Finally someone who lays out Plan A for what is really is...and what it's not about...it's not about being a doormat! I for the life of me can't imagine a M fully recovering if the A goes on blatantly while the BS is fully aware of it....how can that be love?? How can you ever respect yourself, or feel safe with your spouse if they totally disregard you as a person? Would they even consider inflicting this type of pain on a stranger?? What kind of example is this from both parents to their children????

My understanding from reading and from counseling with SH is the same as yours...Plan A is about stopping the A and the BS starting to follow the MB principles! Recovery can't start while the A is still continuing!

There needs to be timelines!

Sorry if this sounds like a vent but reading Lisa's and 3's stories make me feel so frustrated and makes me so angry at their H's!

FOREVER AND STARFISH ,,,

I am not looking to be confrontational (spelling sucks)LOL

BUT honestly , I am sure it does not make you just angry at our WS but what you are really saying is angry at US .

I do respect all opions and veiws and HARLEY"S princepals .

AND there are plenty here who has never or went through the ongoing A while ws is home .

AND yes I know there are some who did and then went to PLAN B . after doing a "proper" PLAN A .

THE STEPS , I get that but by reading here there are those who MODIFIED and I know there are some who say MODIFING there is no such thing , but they have worked and are in recovery .

YOU see there are different situations and keeping an open mind that someone is not making excuses for their WS but that is really just the facts of there life .

I mean there are some here who go to PLAN B very different then others , it was debaited on this thread and there is 180 that has worked for otheres that some do not belive in either but it worked .

EVERYONE needs to find what they can live with for themself that will bring them in to there own peace to say they tried everything they can DO .

OTHERS veiw it as DOORMAT , cause they feel THEY couldn't do it or tolerate it .

I have freinds who say if my H ever cheated I would pack him up and never look back . I am sure you heard family and freinds say that .

THEY say they wouldn't even tolerate the fact that the A even happened . THEY SAY that alone makes you a DOORMAT for taking back someone who disrespected you in that manner to begin with .

I am here to support LISA in every way , and yes I do give her MVHO .

I always said, to her this hurts and there are other options if she feels ready for them and shpuld be open minded to all suggestions and advice given to her .

BUT she alone will make the choices that best suit her emotional needs .

I am not saying seeing OW is not disrespectful but so was the hole A to begin with .

NOW it caomes down to how much you trust (yes trust) that your WS is telling you .

IF myself or LISA continues down that path then it is a choice , so being an adult I would not place that blame on my WS .

I belive LISA is setting bounderies to try and separate WS and his A .

BLOCKING E-mails , no calls in her home , MC ect.

AND I will say as much as I value all the people here IT feels very hurtful to open yourself up to people in this situation and feel as though you are being condemded for wanting to save your M .

LISA I am sorry for giving you any bad advice or saying anything that may have been judged as enabling you to continue with this .

I did feel that I expressed concern for your choice to let him stay and encouraged you to set deadlines .

Please take care of your self and family .

sorry for the JACK in a sense and the long post .

ON my thread I feel that people there gave me other avnues to help me rid myself of the drama of the A that was going on , and helped me to see I can have my life move forward while WS was in fog , so much like PALN B except he is here for it .

MY N/C is very new still and could very well be false recovery so I can do nothing but love H and live our life . AND if it is false then I will take it from there .

only 12 days so there is a LONG raod ahead and I am sure not with out alot more ups and downs .