JackiO: I have to say - I have been reading so much here, and have found a great deal of inspiration. I had been to another site and found that there was a lot of bickering there and really didn't feel comfortable. I don't honestly feel comfortable here yet either, but I get much more positive vibes here. It's not all about "getting" the OW, it's about fighting for your marriage and for your family.

Orchid: Good, you understand the purpose of MB. With that attitude, the info and support from here will do you good. Now to the hard part. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

JackiO:That's exactly what I'm about. I will not give up. I KNOW he loves me. I know I'm in the best possible position in that he lives with ME, yet because of the distance (6000 miles) I also feel that there is a huge fantasy element at play here.

Orchid: Well Jacki, join the group. It is hard. U R fighting for the life of your family (U & H). It is ok to feel like you have been raped and pillaged. The sad fact is that one of your own had a part in that act and it is hurting you real bad..... U R among those that understand this point. It is often very hard to explain to those who haven't walked in your shoes and even some who have.

JackiO:The last time I checked his mobile there was no record of a call to or from OW, which is encouraging. That was before he went on this trip. I have absolutely no access to mobile phone bills - it all goes to the office.

Orchid: Ok, for now.... put that aside and concentrate on something else. U have already proved OW is in the pix. How much and when along with all the gory details may appear to be a need now but in reality it isn't. Just gather stuff for the d as needed. Keeping a journal is helpful.

JackiO:I have decided, and have already started, to Plan A like my life depends on it.

Orchid: Ok. now let's get you to plan A wisely. Ok?

JackiO: </font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am very emotional at the best of times, cry very easily - what do you think I should do when I well up? (I mean even before D-Day, since childhood!)</font></li>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Orchid: Cry when you need to cry. Penting up emotions is not healthy. Neither is endless crying but some is good. So if you feel out of control or depressed, visit your doctor (a good one) and get some support. There are various medications on the market to help (all with different reactions - a good doctor will be able to help you sustain yourself). Also you may find your inner strength in all this and surprise yourself at how well you are handling it. Anxiety attacks are quite common. Your body lets you do this for a while, then steps in and says stop....U will rest now.

JackiO:</font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Should I still be doing things like checking his phone?</font></li>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Orchid: Up to U. U might periodically. Heck, I check out the OWs website 'til this day. Along with H's phone and e-mails....even question him directly and we are in recovery! Not every day but periodically. Don't be a fanatic about it and what will you do when you find something? Need to have that in your head before you find something.

JackiO:</font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">When I find stuff (evidence of contact) I freak out and confront him. Now even an ameteur like me knows that that has got to be a major LB! What should/could I be doing better?</font></li>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Orchid: Journal it, vent here and ask for advice, speak to your MC or do phone counseling with Jennifer or Steve here @ MB. Do you have a personal support group right around you? Could even include the family pet.

The purpose of the support group is to give you comfort and support. It could anything or anyone. In my case, even good dreams were support....G Clooney and T Cruise, saved me a couple of times - LOL!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

JackiO:</font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She is particularly needy at the moment, having been made redundant and apparently leaving BH.</font></li>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Orchid: Ok, so you have established that OW is a flake and quite needy. That is good (for you).
Don't rub it into him but remember this point (journal entry item)..... you may need to recall this one day.

JackiO:</font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There is definitely an element of guilt on UH part re A and her M, although she was the one who persued my UH (Not getting ENs met at home)</font></li>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Orchid: Ok, well in time she may also be a pain in the toosh to your UH as well. Patience here.

JackiO: I gather that I need to set a time limit for Plan A, but Plan B would be SOOOOO dramatic - I mean take the girls to another country - that I don't think I could go down that road and save my children's emotional future.

Orchid: Yes and revisit that timeline maybe once a month or so. Your journaling will help you when you get weak and need to stand your ground.

JackiO:All input gratefully received. Thank you for taking the time to read. I have finally realised that It's o.k. to come here and let off steam and not be lectured!

Orchid: Yes, it is ok....painful but ok. Also realize that your wound is still quite fresh so the pain is more intense. A few more rounds of this OW/A stuff and you will be a lot tougher..... I don't wish it on you but one can only take so much. I remember telling the WS in my situation....'U and OW need to get better stories....your A junk is getting quite old, your games are stale and stupid, by the way, I already know your stupid lies and acts of deceit....you don't even have to say it, I can see it and smell it and U both stink!' OW had 2 dogs so I used to act as if their smell was on him..... it was a bit but not real bad but it was a trigger for me so I made sure it triggered him. Nothing worse than recalling an OW smell to remind him of his wife's words - LOL!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

take care,
L.

Orchid:
Thank you so much for all your trouble - going through my post so diligently. You are a gem! You give me hope that I am on track. I SO want this to work. I know I have to not appear needy. He knows that I'm fully capable of getting a life together without him.

One of our main areas that lead to A was SF. I never said no, I would "co-operate." We've had so many chats about that since dday. I felt that any show of affection meant "Oh sh*t, he's horney." and I would do my duty. He felt that I didn't "want" him. I did - always, but needed him to understand when I was going through tough times - eg 6 countries in 7 years, 10wk prem baby, and a whole lot of other drama in between - that I needed comforting and support more than anything else.

Isn't hindsight just that - 20/20 vision!!! Damn, how I would do things differently. I have to say that he DID try to talk to me about his needs, but I was on my own mission. Too busy trying to be the perfect wife, trying to be all things to all people, and YES trying so hard to ease his burdens. I did it all for US, HIM. His career, but our life ultimately. I thought I was doing the right thing, but I didn't listen to him.

After dday one of the things that came out was our different interpretations of our M. He said we were existing, I said we were SURVIVING!

I know, and he knows, where the wheels fell off. It's all about getting them back on and moving forward now.
He is not the kind of guy to have ONS - had to be strong emotions involved. I know I unwittingly paved the way for the A.

The good news is that he now says that SF is all, and more, than he ever hoped for or wanted.

You must think I'm a nut! Reading this thread from the beginning, I'm all over the place! It's just that the more I'm here, the more I open up.

I have NO support network here. I have some lovely friends, but not deep friendships - I don't feel ready to confide in any of them yet. Family, all over the globe, know what went on, but think it's a thing of the past. That's partly my fault because I told MIL and both SILs not to keep asking how we were doing, we'd tell them if there was something to know. Of course we (actually - I, H tells them bare minimum) did not. Good old protector, ME!!!!! I don't really discuss with my folks anymore. Dad can't cope at all! Mum was very supportive, but also thinks it's all history. My fault again. I just think that they are all so far away. I was on again, off again around Xmas like you cannot believe, so I just asked them to understand that I LOVE this man SO much and cannot walk away without giving it my best shot. They were happy for me to do what I needed to do.

Orchid, you're a very special lady. I feel like I know you and I don't know the first thing about you or your experiences! Where can I link in to your story?

Thank you (((((Orchid)))))
J

Hi Jackie,

Well you are making fine progress. The fact that in this short time you have a better handle on your thinking and can see things clearer is great.

My story? Well I came to MB in Dec 2000 but started posting in Jan 2001. My story has it's drama moments like all the rest here.
Hmm..... I just gave the 'short' version of my story to Mimi. Let me see if I can find it.

For starters, I will leave in my sig line this time.

Ok here it is: Orchid's short story Go to 6/14/03 1:03pm. Mimi's entire thread is a book but worth the read.

L.

<small>[ June 18, 2003, 03:03 PM: Message edited by: Orchid ]</small>

Orchid!!!
I'll be 40 this year. My H is also younger than me, and MOW is also older than me. How weird is that?! Thank God I didn't have the miscarriages. My heart breaks for you. We nearly lost our baby (nearly 6 now) 3 times when she was in ICU for 7 wks as a prem. It was the toughest time of our lives, but he was faithful then, devoted actually.

Someone once told me that God only gives us what He knows we can handle. Boy, does He know something about you and me!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

It's amazing .... I AM feeling very calm and positive since "talking" to you and others. I've spoken to H a couple of times today and been SO good. I think he's a bit suspicious, like waiting for the proverbial to hit the fan. My BIG test will be Sunday when he's in London. Don't question his every move, don't imagine things that could be happening and I have NO reason to suspect are happening. I reckon that if I can hang in and not LB, his suspicion will go. Right now he doesn't know what the h*ll I'm up to, and who can blame him, I've been a loose cannon. Now I have direction.

THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!!!

Well, it's been 3 days since I last posted. Not much has happened. H is still away, but flying to LDN tonight. I've had some serious bouts of being neurotic, thinking that he's somewhere where he's not. I got a migraine today - totally stress related, but much better now.

I haven't LB'd once on the phone. He said today what a long trip it is and how he's ready to come home! I just said "It's nice to hear you say that, sorry that it's still 4 days to go - we're all missing you" (Do you think I might have boosted the bank?)

Just need to make it through the next few days, hoping and praying that he can maintain NC while he's there!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Jackie O:
<strong>Well, it's been 3 days since I last posted. Not much has happened. H is still away, but flying to LDN tonight. I've had some serious bouts of being neurotic, thinking that he's somewhere where he's not. I got a migraine today - totally stress related, but much better now.

I haven't LB'd once on the phone. He said today what a long trip it is and how he's ready to come home! I just said "It's nice to hear you say that, sorry that it's still 4 days to go - we're all missing you" (Do you think I might have boosted the bank?)

Just need to make it through the next few days, hoping and praying that he can maintain NC while he's there!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Jackie,

Good to hear from U!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I think you did increase your 'bank' a bit. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

You are doing good. Your feelings of anxiety are quite common. From a normal perspective most would be shocked you are doing this well.

Pay attention to your body. IMHO, anxiety attacks are your body's way of saying enough, give me some rest, take care of Jackie. ok? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Here is something to read until he gets back. A poster by the name of Trueheart sent a letter to my WS a long time ago. Trueheart is an Xws and now a happy H.

Trueheart's letter to my WS

While the letter was to my WS, I learned a lot from it also.

Pray for a clear mind and a calm heart. When you see him you will need it.

Here's a positive point: You H is calling you from his trip? You are both able to talk and he says he can't wait to come home? There maybe some truth to some of his words, the more the better. Appreciate those small positive steps before you resort to beating him over the head with a frying pan!!! LOL!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Why do I say this? Because right now you are being careful not to rock the boat in regards to his feelings. Eventually someone is going to have to pay attention to your feelings. At those times, the BS tends to get a lot of anger. WE call it the 5 stages of grieving. If you run into any of RedHat's threads, he might have a link to the 5 stages of grieving thread in his signature line.

Knowing what might happen helps you be prepared. I know it did me.

Hugz,
L.

<small>[ June 21, 2003, 02:00 PM: Message edited by: Orchid ]</small>

Hi Orchid

While you were typing your post to me I was reading Truehearts' letter and weeping. I've copied, pasted and saved and when the time is right I'll get H to read it. I think his initial response will be much as your H's, but .... when the time is right!

I told H about the migraine and he was very concerned - what brought that on? I just said I'd gone to gym without having eaten and I think the heat is affecting me. If I'd have said it was stress he would have freaked out. Before he left he was expecting me to fall apart and I'd said he might just be surprised. (That was before I found MB!!!)

I know I need to take care, and part of me going to gym was to get away from the PC - I've been lurking for days now!

It feels good to feel good, and when the doubts come I try to focus on something else - hence the lurking. I've been doing a lot of reading, it all helps.

I've also been subtle about the girls missing him and expressing concerns about the 9 year old and her insecurities about our marriage - all in a ploy to get him to maintain NC. If he doesn't maintain I think I might see him as a heartless bast*rd and throw the towel in. Is that normal? I know it's irrational.

Jackie,

I gotta run out (2 graduation parties today) but wanted to let you know that you are doing the right thing. The status of your children is his responsiblity. Your welfare and happiness is also his responsibility.

Save the letter for the right time. Believe it or not some of our words and actions make it through the fog and sticks in their brain, heart or guts.... it gets somewhere.... good enough for now. Pasted to their forehead was acceptable for me for a long time - LOL!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Glad to hear you are working out. Keeping busy is a good thing for both you and the girls.

I don't get enough excercise and need to do more than housework, work, being a mom, helping others, semi-gardener, managing a staff, etc..... OH well..... gotta run!!!

L.

Thanks for the words of encouragement - I think I'm getting into this cyber idea and talking about my most intimate problems to total strangers!
Any others takers?.... all input valued! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

(Edited to add: It's almost midnight for me, so will catch all/any replies in the morning.... and then go to gym!!)

<small>[ June 21, 2003, 02:31 PM: Message edited by: Jackie O ]</small>

Jackie,

Just checking in on you....hope you are well. Give us an update when you have a chance. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hi Star*fish!

Well, as you can see from my recent posts, I'm doing really well.

H is still away, 2 more sleeps to go! My gut tells me he is maintaining NC. He has been great - he knows how I feel about him being there and is putting my mind at ease by calling regularly. Yesterday he called about 5 times! When he's with OW he calls to speak to the girls and can't wait to get off the phone with me. EVERY time I've caught him, it was my gut instinct because of his demeanor on the phone.

This morning I got a text saying that he's really looking forward to coming home to ALL of us. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> My lack of LBs has played a big part in this, I'm sure.

His job is becoming more and more demanding, so I don't think he could keep OW happy LD, BS me AND be productive at work. Before, he had too much time on his hands, no job satisfaction and you know what they say about the Devil and idle hands! He loves his job now and I've always supported his career.

You know, I think this time away has done him the world of good - given him some time to prioritise. I've made it clear that the girls are really missing him. I also think events before he left (with our eldest) gave him quite a wake up call.

I'm going to feel a right twit if I've read the situation wrong, but I don't think I have. I think we are headed in the right direction.

Thanks Star*fish for your support. MB has really helped me to focus and stop feeling so sorry for myself. I know I have a wonderful H, I nearly let him get away, but I know now that I have to look after him and not take him for granted like I did BA (before affair!)

I want to relate a little story that happened yesterday. My eldest was telling me about a boy that she fancies. Her friend also fancies him, but she told me they manage not to fight over him. I told her that no boy was worth fighting over. Quick as a flash she says "Well, what about Daddy?" My reply - "Daddy and I are MARRIED, so yes, I'll fight for him" She was happy with that reply. I told H the story, and then said "You're worth fighting for." He said "Thank you!" Then the text this morning!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I'm a happy lady today. Please pray for me that things keep going.

Today I was doing some online banking and noticed an ATM withdrawal, from the same town that OW lives in.
I panicked - shaking, sweating, nausea. My mind was racing, I was all over the place.
I sent H a text saying "I'm so sad that you drew money in YYYY. I'm sure there's a reasonable explanation. I love you xxx"
Sure enough, he called the minute he got the text. He said I'd worded the text so nicely, but he was upset. He told the driver he needed cash, so the guy said - well what about here, he drew money, didn't even know where it was.
Just a few things that have been racing through my very turmoiled mind -

1st - if he was up to no good why would he intentionaly draw money in a place that he knows would freak me out and that he knows I'll pick up on?(I handle all the finances)

2nd - he has been so kind and loving on the phone and in texts since his trip, why blow it by being careless?

He was obviously upset at being questioned and doubted, so I sent another text saying "I'm sorry, I'd rather say something than do my usual jumping to conclusions. Thank you for putting my mind at rest, that's all I need."

He called twice thereafter, once for the girls and once for me. He's here briefly to shower in the morning and then off to a meeting followed by dinner.

Anyway, the point of this post was to try to establish how you think I did - I think I LB'd, but then maybe recovered a bit. Usually I would say something like "What the h*ll were you doing in YYYY when you said you were not going to see OW? - you lied, you're a bast*rd, you've been BSing me all the time...... blah, blah, blah" Considering what was going through my mind...... I have a very vivid imagination!

I don't know how much sense I'm making, but thanks for reading.