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I posted this in recovery but I'm not sure it should be there...
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Well, I asked my wife to seperate, I feel the need to be alone, I know I might be screwing up, its just how I feel. I feel emotionally blank and until I can get some sense of direction I think its best to be alone. I am really depressed and lonely right now, and it doesn't matter if my wife is there or not. I need to work through my problems...I feel awful. She is trying to be good to me now and I am telling her no. I am asking myself "whats wrong with me?" I dismissed the divorce but now I dont want to keep working on the marriage. Grad school is kicking my butt. I cannot handle all of this right now. Am I wrong?
Blah
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Blah:
Reconsider. Just be there with your wife without expecting too much. You are likely going back to the OW, Blah. That's where this is probably leading. Give her more time. Just time.
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Blah,
You said:
"I am really depressed and lonely right now, and it doesn't matter if my wife is there or not"
If it doesn't matter then why are you picking NOT there instead of there??
You said:
"I am asking myself "whats wrong with me?"
Withdrawal sucks Blah, that's what's wrong--it will get better IF you have NO CONTACT with ow. Any contact, any contact at all, even the littlest contact will set your withdrawal clock back to zero and you will have to go through all of it again.
Blah, there really is no reason to separate if you're not setting yourself up for contact with ow. Please be honest with your wife about it--she deserves that don't you think?
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Blah -
My H felt this way - he wondered if being on his own would help him. He never did tho and I'm glad he didn't.
Please try counselling first - yourself and with your wife.
Turn to each other for support.
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I am 2nd guessing my own intentions. Are they true? Do I just feel guilty and want to atone for that? I wonder if I can truly love W again, and mean it. I want to, but its extremely difficult for us. The gap is lots of pain from our past for each of us, our marriage pre-affair, and the brutal affair. But I am not feeling any hope for us yet. I am honestly not sure I can get thru the widthdrawl. My level of committment seems weak in the face of the widthdrawl. I feel forced, not really coming from a true base of love and trust and desire for mutual understanding. I dont treat her with the proper love that a man who is intent on renewing a busted marriage would demonstrate. I should be on my knees in my efforts, yet she seems to be the only one who demonstrates that. I hate hurting her, I love her. I just feel like I cannot love her well. I dont feel I can be in love with her anymore. I look at her and feel fear, that I will be unhappy for long time to come, that I cannot be good for her. Although she is being good and kind to me lately, I dont trust her, she doesnt trust me (we never did) even when she is so kind, and she does not look like OW but she is pretty, I am having trouble reconciling with that too (sorry if I sound shallow). What can I do about that? What can I do if I am afraid I cannot committ to her. I can still try yes. But how do we know or I know how long...i tried for years before the affair, years of counseling and reading good books. Now she regrets and says sorry to me for not trying, ignoring me and betraying(much less than me but still betrayed) me before in marriage. There are deep hurts for both of us and I am in a holding pattern to know if we can really make it, if we can be good for each other. I just dont know. And I am not saying I am running back to OW. I know by now that is not a healthy thing to do either.
blah
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blah.. I don't get it...your whole world and life is focused on pursuits of garuntees... and YET the same garuntees you pursue want and desire...you do everything in your power to sabotage.... Ironically so much you desire to 'FEEL" is not about feelings at all..BUT about actions....and when you withdraw your actions from the things you want then of course you will not FEEL all those things you want... There are no garuntees...not one... Things like this are not fixed over night...but the fact that you are second guessing yourself is proof that deep down you KNOW you are running and KNOW you havent' given this your best effort... people here that follow plan a and go to b...majority do so KNOWING the time has come... people that go the D step....can for the most part...even when laddened with sadness...don't do so with regrets...knowing they did all they could to save their marriage... krikey, you haven't even given your wife a fair shot of the withdrawal from the OW phase....and you're ready to bolt... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> You need to learn to let go of the known.. Holding onto past hurts gains belief in that this will never work.... let go of them....neither of you are really that same persons... you were back then. Let go of your fear it serves you no good...but will serve to ensure failure... you make changes little by little...not in huge grand fix this or that moments... BUT by deciding today...just for today...I am going to spend time with my wife...and not let one "what if" phrase spend more than two seconds on my brain...going down the "what if" path is futile...EVEN in marriages that are good... BLAH the truth is ..I have a great marriage...BUT if I spent my time and days playing the WHAT IF game...dam straight...I could probably convince myself of a lot of things... that though my husband loves me... what if someone out there could love me more??? I very much desire my husband..but what if I could have even more desire for someone else....cuter prettier sexier..is Mel Gibson still married!!!???? what if I left my husband and then I could move to some lovely tidal coastal town and live out my days painting pictures and eating bon-bons.... what if I play the what if game my whole life for surely I will die unfilled and UNGRATEFUL for what I had all along. Your what if game is just an exercise of sabotage...and true what if feelings need to be explored after really trying...one never plays the what if card early in the game... Blah....you drive me crazy...and I haven't given up on you yet...and I don't know you.... Your wife knows you...and SHE hasn't given up you either....what a blessing and gift that is... I have said it before...Dorothy went all over OZ seeking what was right in front of her the whole time....but she did wake up in the end... ARK
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Blah,
It is extremely rare for a wayward spouse to use a separation and not escalate the affair.
So, just in case you are in the small minority that does not...what is your plan? Counseling? Reading books? There's a title by Lewis Smedes that helped my H find direction, I think the title was SHAME AND GUILT. Just being alone won't help you unless you act proactively to solve the issues that led you into an affair.
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Ark,
I guess your right about the what if stuff. But the problem is me not her. I am trying to be honest to myself and W about my intentions. She wants to move back in with me, but I am telling her no because last time we only lasted a few days and she moved back out. I dont want that to happen again. I am not doing that great with the no contact (almost 3 weeks) but I have not seen or spoken with OW in that time.
I dont want to lead my wife on saying I am fully into this marriage now and I am very clear about it if in fact I am not. I want to be honest about it. She deserves my honesty. She wants the marriage back, she wants me to give it a fair chance, and thats why I dimissed the divorce...to make it fair for us. I am really having doubts in MYSELF not in her. I know she can hold up her end, trouble is I dont know if I can or want to.
Blah
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Lor,
OW is at a her best friend's wedding today which I was supposed to go to, anyway i am studying physical therapy and it is rigorous...I plan to concentrate on that now, it will be my future career so I need to give that my all. I am going to counseling, thanks for the tips. Maybe go to AA tonight. I will need support to get through today. I am really feeling sad about the wedding.
Blah
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One thing that I have noticed, when I get involved with life, and dont allow myself to become overwhelmed with anxiety and depression, then I can usually make effective decisions, be confident, and face life with no fear. I need to find that peace and strength in myself again, I think that is the key. I have felt it and I know its there.
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Blah,
Keep in mind that As are based on destructiveness, including self-destruction. My WS' business suffered terribly since his A because he could not focus on it, give it his priority. What I am leading to is that you will likely do better in your PT program if you maintain NC. Your thoughts about the wedding today gives the clue that you are thinking about getting back with the OW. Try to focus on your coursework.
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Thanks Mimi, I will try to keep focused on school...feeling a lot of pain right now. I took 3 years to get accepted at this really good school. But I can't lie about being sad about the wedding. It would have been a real affirming experience if I had gone, and since I did not go it is the opposite feeling for me and for her too. Feel very sad. Not that I am going back to her. I am not ready to do that. It would only be another stuck in between thing that I don't want anymore. I want to deal with my marriage first. Only if my wife and I end our committment, then and only then could I even think about talking to OW. Blah <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />
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Blah,
nothing in my post to you was any thing about your wife...
It is addressed to you...
YOur second guessing...
If your wife is smart she wouldn't believe that you ARE capable of committing fully....
I dont want to lead my wife on saying I am fully into this marriage now and I am very clear about it if in fact I am not. I want to be honest about it. She deserves my honesty. She wants the marriage back, she wants me to give it a fair chance, and thats why I dimissed the divorce...to make it fair for us. I am really having doubts in MYSELF not in her. I know she can hold up her end, trouble is I dont know if I can or want to.
Blah you can't know anything till you really try...
and you haven't really tried yet...
and if you wait till you want to try...then you can wait forever...it's a good way to avoid everything....
No one knows if they can till they try.
Neither of you should or can be fully into this marriage...niether really knows what that even means...to truly be "there for one another"..
run away now..and you'll never ever find out...
And Blah....all WS go through withdrawal..it places no greater meaning/value or magic onto the relationship between you and the OW...don't give it more power than it really has...
ARK
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Last night, in the AA/ALANON meeting ... it was said
"You have to be willing to be willing."
Ark^^ ..... you are casting pearls. Muchas gracias.
Pep
<small>[ June 21, 2003, 12:56 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>
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pepper,
long time no see
well here I am again. I guess I need the willingness to be willing. I took a big step in dismissing the D, but I am not sure I was ready for the hard work ahead.
Blah
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blah why do you not say "long time no see to me/"... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> nice to see you mrs. pepperband..hope all is well with you... and hope one those pearls hit blah on the head...(between the eyes...!!) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ARK
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You guys,
Does it make sense for this thread to be discouraging for us in PLAN B, especially those of us who had false reconciliations?
Do our WSes really have the backbone to go through recovery? It seems so difficult to break free from As.
<small>[ June 21, 2003, 07:38 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>
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mimi,
Its kind of strange, but I asked W to seperate because I wanted her to plan B me to help me now...so I think plan B is a good thing. I really understoood it when I read SAA. He says plan B is for the WS to see what he is really missing and see if OP can really meet needs. Also for the BS, in plan A WS just could not follow the rules or respect BS, and for you to do plan B you can restore self-respect, say you have done everything you can with him (plan A), and you did everything you could by even being away from him (plan B). He suggests time limits for yourself...6 months. And then you can divorce without guilt and will not be saddled with regrets and self-blame. The WS makes the decision.
I needed to dimiss my divorce so that I could try this, I need to try all over again, I have been screwing it up so far. If I try this again and cannot go through with it, then I must just face facts, for whatever reason, I am unable to reconcile with W and should free her from my weak-willed efforts and good intentions that will always leave her and me heartbroken.
I love her as my wife, I just have such a hard time loving her like she and I need, and feeling that somehow, I just dont know if I can, or if its there anymore...it seems like nobody believes me when I say that. I am a human being. Its like W has entitlement to love just because I have betrayed her for so long...does she? And must I do everything I can to feel magical and boundless love for her again (some of the feelings I had for OW before NC)? Dont I have to feel it myself to make it happen????I may end up divorcing, because this is our last chance. I used to be afraid of that, but now I am not. I am only concerned that I make the decisions based on self-honesty and proper concern for W and the future. I don't want to deceive anyone. I want to and need to express my love and I want to express it honestly. I may have to be alone someday to understand self-honesty. There are lessons to be learned from affairs, from divorce, and from marriage. It is sad when a marriage ends, but it is also sad when it doesn't create a mutually rewarding life, however trying it may be...it must be rewarding to each somehow, and if its not to one or the other or both, then it should be looked at and sometimes reconsidered. Life is short. Too short to stay miserable.
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Blah34:...Its kind of strange, but I asked W to seperate because I wanted her to plan B me to help me now...so I think plan B is a good thing. I really understoood it when I read SAA. He says plan B is for the WS to see what he is really missing and see if OP can really meet needs....Orchid: Are you into some kind of self torture thingy???? I did hear something like this from my WS and I proceeded to kill him with kindness. I was not into giving him painful pleasure (if there is such a thing). I was into protecting myself and my family from the horrors the A reeked on our family. So what are you willing to do for your family? Not yourself but your family? Blah34: I love her as my wife, I just have such a hard time loving her like she and I need, Orchid: Ok, I am confused here. Please explain the difference between loving her as your wife vs loving her like she needs. What do you mean by loving her as you need? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Blah34: and feeling that somehow, I just dont know if I can, or if its there anymore...it seems like nobody believes me when I say that. I am a human being. Its like W has entitlement to love just because I have betrayed her for so long...does she? And must I do everything I can to feel magical and boundless love for her again (some of the feelings I had for OW before NC)? Orchid: No magic required. Reality adjustment maybe. Being truthful (radical honesty). There is a good book which exhorts the H's to treat their wives as they treat themselves. Is that a safe thing for you to do? What is the 'everything' you think you need to do? Blah34: Dont I have to feel it myself to make it happen????I may end up divorcing, because this is our last chance. I used to be afraid of that, but now I am not. I am only concerned that I make the decisions based on self-honesty and proper concern for W and the future. I don't want to deceive anyone. I want to and need to express my love and I want to express it honestly. I may have to be alone someday to understand self-honesty. There are lessons to be learned from affairs, from divorce, and from marriage. It is sad when a marriage ends, but it is also sad when it doesn't create a mutually rewarding life, however trying it may be...it must be rewarding to each somehow, and if its not to one or the other or both, then it should be looked at and sometimes reconsidered. Life is short. Too short to stay miserable.Orchid: Now this makes more sense. But before how convincing are your words? What can you show or will show to back up your above statement? L.
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Hi Orchid,
#1 yes there is something strange about the dynamic of love between W and me...its like i should be punished for what I did, because she doesn't even set the rule and stick with it, I could railroad her and she will get back up and say "I will do anything to save the marriage" It kills me, I could do anything to screw up and she would take me back. Just like OW always took me back...they didn't do me any favors, I needed to be dumped to see what I was doing was hurtful.
#2 Love-ah I guess I am trying to compare the love I felt for OW and say how I dont feel it that way for W, or generally saying how I have growing to do in this area.
#3 Everything-means touching her like I touched OW, laughing and feeling good with her like w/OW, kissing her, making love, being very physically attracted to her, listening to her and wanting to be "her everything". I guess I am saying do I have to treat her with all the love and care and affection I did to OW. That will be I think the hardest thing for me. Its already hard to even go to a place where OW and I went to, never mind showering my wife with all the stuff I did on OW are you kidding>? my mind will be laser guided to OW.
#4 This part explains where I am right now. And I dont want to just SAY i want to work it out w/W and then keep all my love and mind for OW...dont you agree? So if I try and cannot commit to W, then at that time I will be honest and need to dicuss D. Then i will have to face that. And I will have to face the consequence. But if I can be honest in my intent to want to commit to W, then I can probably open some of my stuck doors that I have right now. I dont know.
Blah
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