I'm nearing the 6-month mark in Plan B. WH and I have had very little contact, only communicated about finances and D's graduation, and only through our go-between or an email from WH. WH has lived w/OW since 12/31/02. In my Plan B letter I did not specify a time limit for making a decision.

My question is this - is 6 months long enough to expect a decision, one way or the other, from a WS? Am I the enabling wimp not to confront him about his plans?

In a recent dream I saw WH with a cold, hard look on his face, in his eyes. He had no feelings for me, and since the opposite of love is apathy I was scared. This was the first time I've allowed myself to acknowledge that WH may actually have no feelings for me. I woke up gasping for air and thought about his blank look throughout the day. Oddly, I also thought fondly about some of the warmest, closest moments we've had in our lives together. At the same time, I remembered some buried hurtful scenes from D-day until WH left. A very emotional day, good thing I worked alone.

On the up side, I realized that I had to be strong enough to accept these feelings, or I wouldn't have felt them. I know I'm stronger now than ever, feeling liberated for facing my greatest fear, abandonment.

Although I'm not at peace yet with the idea of divorcing WH, I'm closer to accepting it. It still seems that, since it was his idea to leave me, he should be the one to Dv me, I don't want to do his dirty work for him. I don't know how much longer I can wait for him to decide, though. Other BS's in Plan B here have talked about their WS thinking that the BS is a safety net, will always be there if the R w/OP goes sour. My WH could be thinking that, too.

Trying to get my thoughts together. . .
Lablady

Me BS 48
WH 48
M 25 yrs
S 25, D 23
OW 44 coworker/widow
D-day #1&2 1988
1 PA, short term, 1 EA, unrequited, WH fantasized for 8 yrs
D-day #3 7/03
In our 25 yrs of marriage, WH has been connected to other women for 10 yrs. A sobering thought.
WH waffles btwn me and OW through summer and fall '02
WH moves in w/mother 10/02
WH moves home for 3 weeks in Dec, for the holidays?
WH moves in w/OW 12/31/02
I send Plan B letter 2/10/03

lablady,

Sorry to hear about your predicament.
I think that you may be right about your WH may be thinking that you will always be there for him. That means you have a decision to make regarding that.
I also think that it is good that you feel good about accepting your feelings.

How long should you wait? That's tricky, the longer the A lasted the longer the recovery. But, how long you wait for him to come around depends on how long you are willing to wait. You have been married for a considerable amount of time. Give your healing and recovery an equal go at it.

Just my opinion,

Best of Luck and God Bless,

r0uter

or he could be like my husband and because he is incapable of being honest, he would rather you think the reason he is not coming back is because you are too crazy, too emotional, blah, blah, blah. since my husband has basically made a fool of me in the small town we live in and i never will be able to have a normal life, i will wait him and his GF out. my life basically is worthless, cuz thanks to him, he has painted a pic of me that nmoone would ever want to have anything to do with. so i have basically nothing to lose. and if he thinks i am buying his game, hes got a real surprise waiting. i am patient and i am going NOWHERE. not until he decides to grow a pair and get honest with me so we can all move on.

stupid,
Sounds like you put too much weight on what other people think of you. You have to live for yourself and Damn what other people think. I understand that what he has done, and continues to do hurts, but only you can change peoples true perception of you.
Anyone who can't accept you for who you are and see through the crap that he might say about you isn't worth the time of day anyway. I look at people like that and immediately think of my "List of People Who Matter", and they aren't on it! If one of them gives you a sideways look, let them know that they aren't on your list.
In the end you can hold your head high for not stooping to their level. If you let them see you walk around town with a confident air about you and they see that you are only concerned with getting your life back together; any of them worth dealing with will come around. Maybe then they will see what he has done to you and the tables will turn!

Be Proud of who you are and what you can accomplish!!

Good Luck and God Bless!

r0uter

rOuter - Throughout our lives together, WH has left major decisions to me. He was always afraid of being blamed if something didn't work out. Blamed by whom, I don't know. It's possible he's waiting for me make this decision for him, too. Right now it's a waiting game, and how long to wait is the big question. I agree with you that after 25 years I can, maybe should, wait a little longer. My MIL recently told me the same thing.

It's funny, I've been so angry with WH since he left. I lived in survival mode for the past 9 months. It's only recently that I feel less stressd. Only now, after realizing WH may not love have any feelings for me anymore, have I been able to feel compassion for him and remember the love I've had for him. I can't figure that out, either.

Stupid - I agree with rOuter, your WH's opinion of you and what he tells others about you isn't worth a d**mn! You are your own person. What do YOU want with your life?

Thanks.
Lablady

I've just read Cerri's response to Conan's thread, specifically the part about Plan B. I'm trying to figure out how long to stay in Plan B. I still have some love for my WH, which is good I guess, but I don't want to stay here forever waiting for him to make up his mind. It's been 6 months already, and he's always had trouble making decisions. How long is too long?

Hi:

See Cerri's response to your question on Conan's thread. I asked it over there.

The response was very helpful to me. I hope it is for you.

Mimi -
Thanks for directing me to Cerri's reply. I'm surprised about the recommended 2 years in Plan B, it seems too long. Maybe that's about how long it would take to get over a Dv anyway, so what's to lose?

Mimi - you say you have codependent tendencies. Have you read Codependent No More by Melody Beattie? I'm listening to it now on tape (long commute). I was a codependent years ago, not so much recently. In fact, I think that WH's A is partially his attempt to get another codependent "fix", since I started to detach from him several years ago. Anyway, it's an insightful book, even if it is written with a slant toward living with alcoholics. Detachment is a big theme, emotionally, financially, physically. It is a key ingredient to healing from an A, I think, especially in Plan B. There's an article on this website about how the current focus on stopping codependency is not compatible with MB principles. Maybe someone can speak to that topic, I see that Cerri mentioned detachment in her response on Conan's thread.

Lablady

Some news today. My D bumped into her father (WH) yesterday. He told her that OW sold her house and bought another one in a nearby town. He has been helping her move all week. WH was moving his stuff out of an apartment he had rented for 2 months, but never slept in, he lived with OW the whole time. I'm preparing myself for some contact from WH regarding a DV. It's been 6 months, he's moved to a new place with OW, I think we're through. Not a great night.
Lablady

More news. D(23) went to a family function last night, cousin's graduation on WH's side of the family. I didn't go b/c WH was going to be there. Well, he brought OW. First time that he's brought her to any family function. First time D has met her. D came home upset. She's been having a hard time dealing with the reality of what her father has done, and this was in her face. She says she doesn't know what type of relationship she wants with her father.

I'm disappointed with my in-laws. I never expected them to turn their son/brother away, but he's still married, for God's sake. He's bringing his adulterous relationship into their homes, around his neices and nephew. I've thought about what I would do if it were my son having an affair. I'm sure I would at least insist that he not bring his OW into my home until after he was divorced. There have to be some boundaries.

I'm trying to detach. Trying to believe that everything happens for a reason. Trying to believe that I will be OK, that my kids will be OK. I really think my M is over.

Not sure where to turn, so I'm writing to you guys for some understanding.
Lablady

It's getting ugly. Not only did WH bring OW to neice's graduation party, he didn't bother to let our D(23) know he was doing this. She drove up to the party and SIL went out to D's car to warn her that her father had brought OW. As D walked into the party she saw her grandmother and husband sitting w/WH and OW at a table. WH introduced D to OW. According to D they exchanged small talk, then OW said to D that, "your father would like it if you dropped by the house sometime." This made D angry, but she's a conflict avoider and said nothing, just smiled and nodded.

I'm in Plan B, S(25) has not spoken to WH since Christmas except once to tell him what an a**hole he has been, and then another phone call 2 days ago (more later). D is the only one who has kept any contact with WH, a total of 2 hours in the 6 months he's been gone, mostly just bumping into him. D says she does not know what, if any relationship she can have with her father but is not yet ready to cut all ties.

On Sunday S called his father to tell him not to disrespect our family by thinking it's OK to bring OW out in public. S asked WH if he realized D would be upset by being pressured to meet OW. WH said No, he didn't think it would be a problem. More talk from S about what a jerk WH has been. Then S said he washes his hands of his father, and while WH starts to cry, S hangs up. S has been the only one to stand up to his father and confront him for what he's done, namely run away from his family and everything we had together. S is being a man, not afraid of his father, willing to stand up for what's right. Though I know only WH can make his own choices, I am proud of S for doing what he believes in.

I'm feeling almost as bad as the day WH left, although adjusted to living alone. My inlaws have not called me since the party, I don't know what they're thinking but I won't visit them or speak to them if they are allowing OW into their homes. WH and I are still married, he's committing adultery every day, and I feel too disrespected to interact with his family. S wants to know why I don't file for Dv instead of waiting for WH to do so. Right now, it's only b/c I'm not going to do his dirty work for him. I've always made the decisions for our family, let him make this one.

I guess this is a vent. After more than a year of this c**p, I still can't believe WH is doing this!!! It is just too wrong!!!.

Lablady - I feel very sorry for what you are going through - you sound like TTHO who has also been married 25 years... Getting a divorce bites and adultry is basically the worse - but I am thinking that if you want this divorce and think that the marriage is over - don't wait for him to do it - do it for yourself do it to make you happy... Just my opinion - In my case well we filed jointly but I just said ok fine - after months of horror - that was what he wanted that was what he was gonna get - so quite like our marriage 15 years ago - where he just showed up - he also did the same in court -everything was done by me... I read those Codependent No More books and my god they were like reading a bible weren't they??? I read your signature line and your situation seems to well pretty much sum it up bite.... Anyways - I think about the in laws - they cannot tell your husband how to run his life - well any better than you can - I should have said tell him and have him listen - but I am thinking they are probably afraid to talk to you ??? I am thinking that if you have a good relationship with them you might want to call them - this is all just my opinion - but I am on the outside looking in - and wondering - maybe they didn't know she was coming to the party - but should they have been rude???Just and example??? What your husband did or has done he has done to you and to your children - not his parents - they are probably dissapointed but they are parents and we all love unconditionally most of the time... And as for letting him be a cake eater I am thinking that yup - you just maybe an enabling wimp - but I say that kindly the queen of enabling wimps - you know??? So I am thinking you should just sit and decide what you want for your life - don't let him dictate it for you - take a stand... Good Luck -

maw64 -
Thanks so much for your kind words. Maybe these past few days have been "1 step back" and I'm really still moving forward. I hope so.

I don't want my M to be over. I don't want my kids to have to decide how to "handle" their father at weddings, babies being born, family functions. Both S and D have seen how poorly WH has acted this past year, and frankly for much longer, although they never knew about his previous affairs. They have always seen me as the stronger parent, and they still do. S told me yesterday that the thing he misses most about his father is the fun they had - horseshoes, barbecues, traveling. I'm trying to figure out what I miss about WH, too. What exactly did he bring to my life? To our marriage? To the survival of our family? I'm trying to build a new family.

I have had a goood relationship with my inlaws for 25 years and do not want it to end. I know that my value system is different from theirs regarding WH and his A. WH's father cheated on his mother for 20 yrs. before she finally Dv'd him. FIL passed away 2 yrs. ago, but MIL has a shrine to him, no kidding, religious statue and candles, in her house, even though she remarried. She says she feels guilty for the bad first marriage, and since she initiated the Dv she feels she wrecked the family. Well, I have no guilt, I will not build a shrine to my cheating husband! Everyone in FIL's family overlooked his infidelity, I can't do that.

I just can't believe he's doing this, it's too wrong.

Lablady - Well a shrine - I am thinking no - but the guilt I can relate to - I think that was alot of my problem - trying to figure out what exactly I did wrong - that made my husband want to leave his two girls - 10 & 13 - but it has taken me like 1 year and 8months to finally realize that it wasn't me and it never was it is his him and he is the one that is going to loose out.. Your children are old enough to form their own opinions of their father and what has happened you shouldn't have to shoulder any of that - They will find a way to deal with him..... And yes he is wrong but remember you are not.... After all of this has been said and done in my situation I sit back and I wonder was I really happy - I don't really know the answer to that... I keep hoping that I wake up one day and actually want to thank him for bringing me through this because I am happier than I have ever been - I used to kiss his butt - pretty much - but oh yet of course he doesn't see that... Your inlaws - will come around I am thinking - And as for the shrine maybe in her mind it is her way of paying tribute to him - because she is secretely glad that he is gone - who knows??? People definately react to things differently - and you know - when I first came on this board I corresponded with Sad Princess and she used to tell me for every bad day that I experience - there a two good days - waiting around the corner - and it always gave me something to look forward to - So keep that in mind - when you are having a bad day... You definately do not want your marriage to end - but then again - you are worthy and you deserved to be loved and treated right... So I hope the good days start coming soon.... I am really at peace or I should say a strange calm because I have finally let go.... And surprisingly I am OK... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

maw64
What you say about feeling guilty during you ex's A must have made it even more difficult for you. I can imagine you asking yourself, "what did I do wrong" and having it tear you up. I'm sorry you had that extra pain to carry around, but you're right to come to understand that the A was really about your ex, not you.

I only felt guilty for a short time, right after I found MB as a matter of fact. I guess the MB thing about meeting ENs got me thinking I could have done a better job with my M. I NEVER intended to hurt WH, though, so whatever I did wrong was a genuine mistake. An A, on the other hand, is not a "mistake", I truly don't know anyone who would say an A is OK. Most people intuitively know that an A is going to cause pain, and probably lots of it. To top it off, this is my WH's 3rd A, so it's even worse. Pretty quickly I realized that the A wasn't about me, it was about WH. I've known for years that he wasn't happy, not only with his marriage, but everything. I don't feel responsible for his happiness. He's an adult. I listened to him complain for years, offered suggestions, the whole codependent thing. Then finally I understood that he wasn't taking responsibility for himself, just blaming others for why he wasn't happy, and I wasn't helping him . I started to detach from him, to grow as a person and relish the joy of everyday life while still being respectful to WH. I WAS happy, and will be again, once this stress calms down.

My MIL called last night. She asked me how I was doing, and I told her. Pulled no punches. I asked her if she knew WH was bringing OW to the party, she said no. I believe her. I then asked her why she allowed them to stay. She said, "what was I going to do?" I told her that I have thought long and hard about what I would do if my son did what his father is doing. I KNOW I would not let him in my house with his OW while he was committing adultery. Yes, I love S unconditionally, but that doesn't mean I have to accept whatever he wants to do around me. There can be boundaries. The rest of the conversation went OK, we're still on speaking terms.

My kids are old enough to deal with their father themselves. My main goal right now is to construct a new family, w/o WH, so we can love and support each other as families are supposed to do. Situations like this A call for sticking together, helping each other, me letting my kids know I'll always be there for them. In a way I think it's easier on the BS when the kids are older, but I'm not sure it's easier on the kids. My S said to me the other day that when a kid is young, the parents who are dv'ing say, "it's not about you, it's just that Mom and Dad can't live together anymore. But the truth is, with an A and no reconciliation, it IS about the kids, b/c the WS is destroying a FAMILY, not just the relationship btwn husband and wife." Then S said that he wouldn't have understood that if he was young, but he does now.

Today I feel like I've taken a stand, not always an easy thing for me to do. In both the enneagram personality test (I'm a 9), and the Meyers-Briggs (INFP) I'm a serious conflict avoider. The only reason I've been able to take a stand is that my values have been trampled by WH's A and his behavior the past 6 months. What he's done is just too wrong, he's hurt too many people for his own selfish reasons and I feel I've got nothing left to lose by letting others know how I feel. Hmmm... how long will it take this new me to actually DO something?

Thanks again maw64 for your kind words.
Lablady

Lablady - OK well you just gave me a chuckle at the end - I am a huge conflict avoider myself - but I will tell you I found out in 10/01 about the affair - went through hell until about April - no one knew until like the beginning of March when he moved out for a couple of weeks - and then when I found out through voice mail messages - just after he had decided to come home and had come home for a week already - that the neighbors wife - had called him five times in one Sunday afternoon - calling him hon and talking about hooking up - in the last conversation- well that was enough for me - I flipped out damn near killed her - kicked him out of the house - left a message on my lawyers answering machine and sat down and proceeded to call quite a few neighbors and let them in on the scoop - boy did he feel like a real a** for quite a while - actually I think that he still does - and for all intent purposes - but it is easier on him because I am ok with it now... Now as for the kids - Nowadays kids know way to much - even if you are hiding stuff from them or think they are to young to understand - well they get it - of that I am sure - and it has been hard but hopefully our upward swing will stay going - I am glad that you spoke to your mother in law - really - she actually must have been somewhat relieved that you guys talked...You will make a new family and if the kids choose to let their Dad in fine - but you will always be the home they come home to - that is what is happening with me - my girls see their Dad on Friday nights - he is wonderful you know - once a week and he thinks he is father of the year... Anyways - I know that I am going to be the one they look out for at graduation and all of the important moments in their lives and he is gonna be bummin... I always - wished and prayed and hoped that he would realize one day what he gave away - and I hope that he will so he can tell me and I can tell him - I tried so hard to make you see that - but you made the wrong choice and your lost out totally..... But I am thinking even if he felt that he would never let me know....

Had a mostly great weekend. Family, friends, fireworks, bonfire, lots of great food. I'm back at work to rest up.

The only real upsetting moment was Saturday. D and I were setting up the outdoor fire pit for a giant paella she makes. A friend of hers answered the phone, comes outside and says, BS it's for you, it's WH. This is the first time WH has called in 6 months, I didn't want to talk to him for many reasons. D took the phone and told her father that I couldn't talk now, we were having a party and too busy. He said that makes sense and hung up. I checked the phone log and he had called from work. It was like the wicked witch of the west had descended on Oz. Though I was shaking for a few minutes, we went on to have a great party.

The next day S, D and I went out of town, new baby christening. I expected to come home and find that WH had called, but no, not on phone log. Today I thought he would email me, but nothing. I think he wants to talk about Dv. He told D last week that he wants to "settle this".

I'm stubborn enough to keep fighting for my family, but not at the expense of my principles. I know my expectations of what WH would have to do to get back with us are high. If he wasn't in the fog he'd reallize his family is worth it.

Soon he will contact me. I want to prepare what to say to him. I want to let him know that he can still turn this around, come back to his family. In my Plan B letter I said he'd have to give up his A, agree to MC, and work on his personal problems (childhood sexual abuse and others) before I took him back. I still feel that way, only stronger. During the past 6 months I've become more self-reliant. I'll be fine without him. My kids, though, and the family unit are what concerns me. A family is too good a thing to wreck for selfish, immoral reasons.

What should I say to him when he says he wants to "settle this"? I'd like to remind him that his father, who died 2 years ago, never really knew his own grandchildren. FIL cheated on MIL for 20 yrs until she Dv'd him, he moved away, and was too busy golfing and gambling to have much to do with his grandkids. He missed out. His second wife was a b**ch, threw him out when he was dying of cancer, and didn't even come to his funeral. Does WH want this? Already our S has disowned him, and D is embarrassed to be his D.

Or should I assume he is still deep in the fog and just stall for more time? I just can't believe he isn't waking up!!! How can he leave his family???

Advice, please. I'm still at a crossroad.

Lablady

Still waiting for contact from WH. What is recommended when a BS in Plan B is contacted by WS re: Dv? Hang up w/o saying anything? Tell WH to make contact through go-btwn only? Ask him if he's sure he wants a Dv? Or, my favorite, tell him he's f***ing crazy and that he'll wake up one day regretting everything he's done?

For some reason these past 2 weeks have been difficult for me, perhaps the 6 month anniv. of WH moving out? I've learned so much from reading here, so many stories of courage, so much good advice. I don't know what I'd have done if not for MB. Thanks so much.

Lablady

Hi Lab:

In my state, he would not have to talk to you to file for Dv. Maybe he wants to talk about something else.

I guess you could be proactive and write a new PLAN B letter spelling out what you said here.

Do what's best for YOU and not the children. Because if you're OK then they will be OK.

Will say more later.

Lablady,
YOur words really ring true for me. The whole thing about restructuring your family so that it still feels like a family and that you are there for each other.
My WH has really been gone long before the A, working on the road for several years and even though I felt I was still part of a partnership, now looking back I realize that I was doing the bulk of the work, raising the kids, taking care of the house, budget, missing him terribly. So really what has changed, just the partnership part I guess. Oh and I still miss him.
But the kids must know by now that I've been here for them through it all and always will be, but I still feel their pain and confusion. Why would Dad give us up for ANYONE? It's tough for me, it's got to be even worse for them.
As for the time frame for Plan B? NOt sure, as I'm not sure how long it will be for me. I've decided I must start the D process in order to protect myself financially. WH has been way to angry and unpredictable lately. And starting that process really scares me.
But surprisingly, despite being scared, I don't really feel anxious or stressed. Something new seems to be coming over me. Acceptance???
I know I'll be OK, the kids hopefully will be too. I just know that I've done all I can and that's got to mean something.
Hang in there. You're right it's nothing you did or didn't do, it's your WH. They will realize sooner or later what they gave up for OW's and then what?....