Oooh, NW, I just read through the last couple of pages of posts. Your wife sounds like she's EXACTLY in the same place I was at one time. LET HER ALONE!! LET HER feel the hurt and depression. SHE NEEDS IT! Allowing her to fall on her face and fail would be the kindest thing you could do for her. Your frustrations are understandable, but if you would just TRUST US and learn more about the process...you would come to realize this has NOTHING TO DO with YOU. You're taking it all personal and have the wrong picture about what she's thinking or feeling right now.

Another thing...about her not minding NC and you thinking that proves it's a failed plan B. NOT!! It proves it's TIME for Plan B! She's tired of the confrontations with you, hence the thankfulness for her time alone. I too was tired of the confusion and found our time apart to be much more comfortable than our time together. Give that some time...GIVE HER SPACE!!

You're being told by several BS's who have been in your shoes...and you've been told by several WS's who have been in your wifes shoes....Plan B is the right way to go. Please trust us and start turning your focus to finding a way to find sanity in the interum. When your wife does fall down and go boom, she will only want to turn to you if you're someone who has it together. So GET IT TOGETHER!!

Mimi, Thanks for checking on me.

TMCM - You are right, I am looking for too much too soon. It is just this has been dragging on for almost 7 months now and I have become very frustrated.

h4f - Thanks for reading my thread. I value your insight as a FWS. I am going to remain in Plan B. I have to. I've done everything else so what else is left. I have one question though. Isn't our time apart and the comfort that you feel she is going to get from that going to give her a sense that "See, I made the right choice because now I feel better that he is gone." and she will want to keep I that way? Won't it make the OM look more attractive? As a FWS is the NC also going to cause her some pain and anger too?

She has said several times since she left to her friends and to me, "If he just leaves me alone for a couple of months I'll seriously consider going back" and that if I had left her alone (instead of pursuing her) since she left she probably would have been back by now.

h4F,

Also, you mentioned that I have the wrong picture of what she is thinking and feeling right now. What is it that she is thinking and feeling right now?

NW:

Try to go back and read MM's posts to me where he talks about OP starting to look like a toad and the WS remembering you in PLAN A.

I get the impression from my WS that it's the other way around, just like MB's theory. The more time away from you, the more attractive you are, and the less attractive the OP is to them. Attractive is not the word I want but you know what I mean. The WS will begin to miss you and need you. MM says this stuff so much better. He is the master.

Try to find the MM posts before my PLAN B or early PLAN B late May, early June.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by now what:
<strong>But I keep FEELING that NC thing is going to make things worse between us in the long run. That she is just going to look at me and feel that I am an angry person who did not get my way and justify why she left in the first place. I know her and that is what is going to happen.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">NW, Plan B is a nasty medicine that will hurt in the short term but help in the long run. You are trying to rely on your instincts here and that is the WORST THING a BS can do! Your feelings will only mislead you now.

Yes, she will be mad at first about your NC, but that is to be expected. She will be angry that she can't control you or have her needs met by you, too. THAT is part of the medicine it will take to get her off the fence. Please don't despair, this is all going to plan.

NW

Plan B has pre-conditions that your WW has to agreed to and implement before she can be allowed to come back home. Why? because just allowing your WW to come back without an agreement to end all contact with the OM forever and follow a marital recovery plan, is setting up your marriage for a false recovery.

If you stay resolute to your Plan B pre-conditions, she's never again going to be able to manipulate you to be part of the love triangle. She will only have two choices:

1. Agree to and be willing to implement the Plan B pre-conditions to rebuild the M.

or

2. Get ready to become a divorced woman.

nw-

read h4futures last post. she's dead on.

Your wife needs to feel her pain. She will only feel it when you aren't there to medicate her. Yes, that's right - YOU are part of te addictio too. Take her 1 linkn to reality away and the fantasy will crumble. Trust me, it's the right thing. NC.

She'll be back. She's already halfway there. NO Contact andshe'll be home by September.

MM - Sorry, I forgot to thank you specifically for your most recent posts as well as taking the time to retype the one you lost. I appreciate your thoughts and support.

Mimi, Kily, ML, TMCM, h4f - Thank you all for keeping up with me and offering your opinions too. I often go back and re-read your posts (as well as MM's) for inspiration and strength.

This past weekend was difficult for me and I was feeling worse then usual about my situation. A lot of negative thoughts going through my head and just a general feeling that this is not going to end the way I hope and pray that it does.

Many of you are very optimistic, particularly Kily and MM, that this will end in her returning to me within weeks. I am hopeful but I do not share your optimisim. I just feel like it is not going to be. Anyway, thanks for being there for me.

It sounds like you want to give up, am I wrong?

NW,

I had duty this past weekend, so I want to catch up on some of the posts here.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I called W and left a message the other afternoon because the kids doctor's office had called and left a message reminding us of an appointment for 9am on Friday. I did not make the appointment so I assumed that she did. Of course as I mentioned in my previous post, she was at OM's house Friday instead of working and didn't take the kids. She called either last night or this morning (I didn't get it until this morning) complaining about me asking the kids questions (I ask if OM is at mom's house when they are there etc...) I know I should not do that.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why should you not do that. You are looking out for your kids' safety. You have EVERY right to do this. Most states do not allow WSs to bring the kids around the OP. Very bad stuff! So you asking your kids if OM is around them is entirely appropriate. And if he is, then it is time to have a letter or talk with your wife, outlining the fact that you will not allow the OM to be around the kids. And if you have to, you will seek a legal remedy. Is that an LB? No. Go look at what the Harleys' list as a love buster. Looking out for and protecting your kids aint one of them. Wil she get mad? Sure. My wife did. She would say stuff to me like "well, if you really did love me, then you wouldnt object to OM coming out to dinner with me and the kids. So I can figure everything out." Huh? Definitely fog logic! But I stuck to my guns. I asked the kids after they came home from seeing Mom, if they had been around the OM. Over Christmas, after my wife got back from going to Florida with the OM, she felt she had to explain why she wasnt with the kids, and was instead with the OM. Of course, the kids came home, told me what Mom had said about it. I didnt trash their Mom. I just asked them what they thought. Know what they said? they said they didnt care what Mom's explanation was...they knew she was wrong, and shouldnt have gone! NW, I could not hide my smile, at the maturity and intelligence of my kids. I was very proud of them in that situation. They had listened to their Mom explain the unexplainable, they were courteous to her and respectful as they should have been. But, inside, they knew what their Mom was saying was TOTALLY against everything she had ever taught them. In a way, my kids had recognized the fog.

That being said, if you allow her to "normalize" the situation with the OM, in regards to the kids, then they will begin to believe that this is a new normalcy. And that should not happen! But, how do you know if your wife is pushing this crap down your kids throats? YOU HAVE TO ASK! Again, dont trash your wife. No kid wants thei Mom disrespected. But, listen, and then explain what always has been yours and your wife's standards in reagards to families, marriage, etc. Explain and even show them in the Bible, what God intended marriage to be. Believe me, in their minds, they will then know and lean on the truth. Then when your wife tries to talk about the OM, or bring him around, your kids will KNOW the truth...no matter how hard your wife tries to create a new normalcy. Shoot...at one point after Christmas, my 8 year old daughter came to me and said she was uncomfortable with my wife talking about the OM. My daughter did not want to hear about him. I told her "then tell your Mom." God, I love that little girl!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She then said she would like to know about the doctor's appointment and ended it with , "But I'm sure you won't call me back." She sounded depressed and frustrated.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good news, good news! Her saying she knows you wont call back is good news. She sounded depressed and frustrated is GREAT news. I know, that sounds sick. But NW, what is your objective? To get there, there is going to be some pain. Just like losing weight requires someone to get on that treadmill and sweat it off, your wife is going to have to go through A LOT of pain. Unfortunately, your kids and you will too. That is why NC is sooo important. It protects you from a lot of the pain that your wife is CURRENTLY going through. NW…when she leaves messages, or emails or whatever…look past her statements. Ask yourself "why" she is saying this. Ask yourself what she REALLY means by what she is saying. Your wife is frustrated with your NC. Oh, but she said that she knew it was good for YOU just a few days ago (sarcastic). Of course she was right! But, unfortunately for her, she didn't realize at the time how terrible it would be for her. She is in the death throes of her relationship with the OM. Life is not good in fantasyland. How do I know? First off, I just lived it. Second, I can see your wife is doing EXACTLY what mine did under these situations, saying the exact same things. THE SCRIPT! Like I said, what she said here is good news. It is why I am confident that she is close to breaking. As Coffeeman said, not all marriages make it, even with Plan A/Plan B. But NW, yours is following the path toward reconciliation. Do not derail it. Be positive. You actually should be happy right now. You should have looked at last Friday, when she skipped work and spent it with the OM as a positive sign. She skipped work because she is making an extra effort to get her needs met by him, especially the needs that you are no longer meeting. And you should put a smile on your face because you should just picture in your mind how your wife has reacted to him not meeting her needs. You know your wife better than anyone, even the OM. You KNOW that life was not good Friday night! So in a sick sort of way, take this time and enjoy it. For all the pain she has caused you, this is actually "payback." But, instead of you causing her pain, she is doing it to herself.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I realize asking the kids anything is probably an LB and part of the reason she sounded the way she did.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Nope. Read above. She wouldn't sound depressed and frustrated because you asked the kids about the OM. Please, you have to see this. She is depressed and frustrated because she cant get any cake from you. Cant get you to give in and meet her needs. One thing my wife said after this was all over was that while I was in Bosnia and she was starting the affair (I didn't know about it at the time), she said that she would constantly email me or ask me to call her. When I did call, she would sound off to me about problems (not OM…just daily problems). I would comfort her. Now why did she do this? She had the OM there. My wife told me that many times, the OM would LB her or things wouldn't be going right, and my wife would contact me and I would actually build her back up. Then she was able to go back to the OM and keep working at it. You see, the OM and her NEVER were fully together. I was constantly propping him up, although I didn't know it at the time. They never had a relationship where it was just him and her. Okay, this is Plan A of sorts (of course I didn't know anything about Plan A at the time). But eventually, I went to Plan B. Then, for the FIRST time, it was just him and her. They had a fight? They had to work it out. He wasn't meeting a certain need? Too bad honey…guess it will go unmet. It is this process that finally pulls the WS out of the fog. They have to go through the pain. THEY have to see reality on their own. That is why your wife (and H4F said it very well) wants to be alone right now. She really wants to figure out the truth now. She doesn't like the fog. But she needs quiet in order to think. To be able to look around and figure out where she is at. She is looking…and doesn't like what she sees. So, as she looks, she is getting more and more pain from it. And she runs to you to get a fix in order to lessen the pain. You see, now you have become the OM. It is you that fuels her addiction.

But the OM doesn't know how to meet all her needs. He doesn't know that in order for him to win out, that he needs to get your wife to NC you, to go through withdrawal…and in the meantime, he needs to work on meeting her most important needs. He doesn't know all of this. So, NC has now been established by YOU. Your wife is going through withdrawal, and taking it out on the OM. He doesn't understand this, and starts to LB her. Now she is in full withdrawal from you, OM is LBing her, making it more painful. Her life is spinning out of control. She tries to contact you, to get you to help this terrible ride to stop (as she has now figured out that the OM is incapable of stopping the ride). But, you wont talk, you wont listen, you wont give in. She is angry, hurt. But the pain isnt being caused BY you. It is being caused by NC, and by the OM's inability to meet her needs, and by his LBing. NW, she will come to realize this. That is when she will come home.

But…if you short circuit this by establishing contact or meeting a need, then your wife has to start withdrawal all over again. And all of you have to go through this again. And maybe the next time you go through this, maybe the OM gets his head on straight and does a better job than he is doing now. And then he is meeting some of her needs. And then she does move closer to him.

NW, there is a window of opportunity here. You have to let this run its course. My wife is MORE stubborn than yours (okay, we wont go into who's wife is more stubborn…we would be wasting everyone's time here). She said and did the exact things yours is. And I too was worried that my actions and inaction was pushing her further away. But remember, she has one thing in her possession (and that you keep reissuing to her when she tries to have contact) that will end all of this pain for her. It is the PBL. That letter is a love letter. It is the most loving thing that anyone is doing for her right now. As she continues to try it her way, things just get worse for her. Eventually, she will see that love letter, pick it up (as Mimi's husband is starting to do), and start thinking that maybe there is a way out of this.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But I keep FEELING that NC thing is going to make things worse between us in the long run. That she is just going to look at me and feel that I am an angry person who did not get my way and justify why she left in the first place. I know her and that is what is going to happen. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No it is not. Not if your PBL was loving. Not if you continue to refer her to that PBL. Not if you do not have contact, do not LB. She will TRY to MAKE herself think that. But that isnt reality…and eventually, reality WILL slap her in the face.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Many of you are very optimistic, particularly Kily and MM, that this will end in her returning to me within weeks. I am hopeful but I do not share your optimism. I just feel like it is not going to be. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are too close to the situation, NW. Back up and look at it from afar. Go read years of posts on here from many who have been exactly where you are. And look where they ended up. Your optimism should come from the fact that you can see your wife riding right down the same road as my wife TM94's wife, and many others. That your wife is JUST like Sue in the SAA book. That the way the experts (the Harleys) describe affairs, fog, reconciliation, etc is exactly how your wife sounds. This is where your optimism should come from. Stop listening to her. Read between the lines. Go back to my threads from November through April and see the similarities. Then you will know that you situation is a good one now, where you are finally in control of its outcome.

In His arms.

<small>[ August 04, 2003, 10:35 AM: Message edited by: Mortarman ]</small>

NW-

Here's the link to that time era that I was telling you about on MM's thread. I am telling you the same things. Read this thread thoroughly. Then read it again. If you still have doubts - go back and read until they have been quieted....

Mortarman's Shoes....

TMCM - No I am not giving up. My strength waivers at times but no, I am not quitting.

MM - Thanks again for another one of your usual through replies. I value the time you put into typing out your thoughts.

Kily - Thanks for the link. MM's shoe is a big one to fill though.

A little bit new today. I talked to W's friend who called me. We talked and she actually complained that the other day when OM tracked W down at bar and confronted her and she went off on him, that she eventually left with him anyway and went to another bar. She said that she is tired of W talking all tough with her about all of the negative issues with OM and supposedly telling him too, but then turning around and contradicting herself by her actions. she said that OM has some type of influence over W that she won't admit too or can't seem to control. However she did say that she lies to OM and tells him she can't see him at times for various reasons instead of telling him the truth which is she just doesn't feel like seeing him at times. W also supposedly said that if OM keeps up his possessiveness that she will dump him and won't tolerate being controlled by any man even though she seems to be controlled by him. She told me recently that she didn't want me to cloud her thoughts with what I say but she seems to allow the clouds to role in from OM. she also complained that W brought OM with her and my kids last night out to dinner. The friend felt that was inappropriate and told W so, who promptly changed the subject. It really irritates me too.

Friend also said that W was saying that she wishes that I had just left her alone because we may have been back together by now. Friend also said how W seems to tailor fit her complaints about me to the situation. For example if I am "pining for her" she complains about that and when I am not talking to her like now, she complains about that. she said how W complains that she wishes she had done things differently and not started to see OM so soon after leaving me and has regrets. The friend complains how she just keeps doing the same thing though.

Now the really interesting thing. The friend then went on to say how I am doing the best thing for her that I can do by NOT talking to her. She said that it will now only be W and OM and said that now W can't come to me and have me emotionally prop her up when she is having problems with OM or just needing me in general. She said that OM's colors are starting to run and that W has commented about that. W has also told friend that she knows that she has a better perspective since she is on the outside looking in. She then said that she feels that W will probably crack soon. I could not believe it because she sounded like she repeating MM, Kily's and the posts of some others verbatum. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I had never spoken to the friend about this web site or any of this.

Anyway, not that I don't feel good hearing from you guys, but I feel really good about this since it is coming from W's best friend, someone very close to her but also on the outside looking in.
NW

NW,

Of course Kily, MM, and others are right, you just haven't been willing to face the music yourself. So let me play the tune again for you.

Plan B is going to do one of two things. It will lead to the break up of OM and your W OR it will lead to you finally coming to the conclusion your W isn't worth keeping. In either case you will find that doing Plan B is the most straight forward way of approaching this.

You have no control over your W or her decisions. That is the tune the Kily and MM are playing for you. You have no control, and since her behavior is reprehensible, you are much better off away from her. It really makes no difference what your W's friend says.

Another thing to realize is that even if OM is dumped, your W may not come back.

Why am I giving you all of this "good" news and raining on your parade? Because you hopes go up and down every time you talk to W's friend or you start thinking about this. You need to stop it. You need to focus on your life, children and what will make you happy if she doesn't come back. Let go of trying to read your W. She is in the fog and there "logic" takes on a whole new meaning. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Second, you need to be preparing yourself to succeed, you don't seem to be doing this. What do I mean? I mean you have to be ready to set boundaries and be able to walk away if they are not met (assuming OM is dumped and your W is thinking of coming back), and you have to be ready to move on if she doesn't dump OM or dumps him and decides not to come back.

If you don't prepare to succeed, then no matter what she decides to do, you will be ill-prepared to handle what will happen, and a lot of your efforts will be for naught.

Please, please start to focus on your life, your goals, your future, what you want to do with the kids. Talk to us about those things. Your W is beyond any of us to help, and beyond your help. That is why you are in plan B, to let OM try and deal with her and for you to PREPARE TO SUCCEED.

Get a plan and talk to us about it. Set goals and talk to us about them. Start making moves in your life for you and your children, and let your W figure out if she is going to join you or not.

Plan NW, Plan.

God Bless,

JL

JL - I thought about the comments at the end of my last post, actually after I sent them and had time to reflect. I actually am no more optimistic then I was. In fact, I have been up so many times the last 7 months, only to be let down again that I don't let myself get too excited over any positive signs in this. Hence my apprehension and pessimism over Kily and MM's feeling that she will break or be back soon. I just don't feel it or see it.
I am making plans for myself and my children. I have become closer to my friends and family then I had been and found that many people come together and help their friends when in need. I also purchased a new house and in fact closed on it yesterday. So yes I dwell on my W and my relationship or lack of with her, I do find time for other things as well and doing this more so everyday.
NW

NW-

I read this the othehr day and meant to get back to you.

What I see is taht your W is angry and she is starting to withdraw from EVERYTHING. Her being evasive to OM is a sign that tells me that she is hurt over loosing you and realizes that he's the reason. If you keep NC going, she will withdraw further from him.

In her own words, she requested Plan-B.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> W was saying that she wishes that I had just left her alone because we may have been back together by now. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Okay, so what is she telling you? She needs for you to detach enough so that she will feel safe (and scared that she's lost you) enough to get enough courage up to end the fantasy and face reality.

She's asking for it in her own words. You're just providing her with what SHE wanted.

Kily,

I hope in the long run you are right. I know that they have spent the last 3 days together (after work) so it seems that her pulling away from OM has ceased for now. She was not seeing him for days at a time and now this. I just don't know what she is doing. I cannot keep a positive outlook in all of this because I just don't see it.

Sorry for such negativity. I have been packing up my (our) house today so that I can move and have been running into all sorts of memories of our life together and it is very painfull.

NW

I've really come to believe that their spending time together during OUR PLAN B is a GOOD THING. There is more opportunity for LBing. It causes the fantasy world to crumble when they have to live the real-life, day-to-day routine.

I know how you are feeling about those memories. All I can say is, hang in there, it is not as hopeless as you are feeling that it is. Their relationship has a slim,slim chance of making it, NW. It can't last!!!!!

Remember to try to think of things to do to keep your mind off of HER and THEM. Try to find any simple thing that will work for you to keep your mind occupied. I had the cleanest house in town-made my house sell instantly. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Also, I work out everyday.

<small>[ August 07, 2003, 11:44 AM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

Mimi,

I don't feel that it is a good thing. Yeah there is more time to LB but also more time to get closer to each other and for W to get further from me. Everytime I have pulled away in the past she has tried to call me, nearly begging me to maintain contact after a week etc... This time it is not happening which I feel is an ominus (sp?) sign. Witnin the last couple of months she told me that she was having trouble letting me go. I think that she has decided to let it go.

NW

NW,

She has decided to let you go? Did you receive divorce papers or something? I understand she has picked back up with OM in response to your NC. But you need to understand that she is doing so BECAUSE of your NC.

You see, OM AND NW have been meeting her needs. Now, there is no NW. She is hurt and lonely because of withdrawal from you. She is also hurt because the reality of the situation with OM and who he really is has started to set in (as is evidenced by what her friend has told you).

Look, I tried Plan B three times last year before I finally fully implemented it last December. Each time I tried it before, my wife would try to contact me after a week or so. She would say things like she wanted to go to counsling, she missed me, and she was thinking about coming home. Then I would give in, we might have SF...and then 5-7 days later...I get the word that "this just isnt going to work out." So, like your wife, mine would stay close by in Plan B, and ultimately undermine it.

That is until I decided to do it right last December. It was then that I REALLY went to Plan B. She wanted us to go to Kentuacky to be with her family over Christmas. She thought it would be good for the kids. I said absolutely not. She wanted to remain with OM in adultery, then she could do Christmas on her own with the kids, as I would do also

Well, guess what? She did do Christmas on her own. First off, she sought out the OM even more. On the 20th, she flew to Florida to meet him (he was down visiting his kids at his ex-wife's house). She got to meet his Mom and other family members, as well as his two daughters. She got to see the home he owns in Florida (he is in Virginia because he cant make enough in Florida). she got to see what her life would be like if they married. With her income as a nurse, she would be able to move to the sunny Tampa area into his house and start a life there.

NW...she was serious now. This wasnt just dating or screwing. This was trying to move things forward. And when she did, even though she had told friends, her Mom...even me, before then that there were some fatal flaws to the OM, she had set him up for failure. You see, the OM began to LB like crazy down there. He called out his ex-wife's name while ****ing my wife. He acted like a pig around his mother and her current husband. He showed his distance and uninvolvement in his daughters' lives. The type of friends he had there were not the kind that she would hang around. she really started wondering "What have I gotten myself into?"

But guess what? I didnt know any of this. I knew she went to Florida. I had assumed that it was over...that her going there was just moving them closer together and further away from me. I felt this way even more when she sent, right after she got home on Christmas Eve, th counter bill for my divorce filing. She alleged all sorts of nasty things that of course, never happened. From the 17th through New Year's Eve, I dont think we had more than three words to say to each other.

A funny thing happened on New Years Eve though. She had come to drop the kids off after a visit to her apartment, and was off to work. She started to want to talk, but I was not in the mood and began to cut it off and move her on her way. But she said a few things that made me sit and listen for a couple of minutes. She admitted that there were problems with the OM and that she now saw many flaws with him. But she also said that things with me hadn't improved because she believed I would never change either. She basically said that she should just get rid of both of us.

I didn't fight through that. I just listened, told her that she was wrong about me, that the PBL still applied, and ended the conversation. Things went dark again, I think for about another 8 days. No conversation, nothing. As a matter of fact, we were now 3 weeks from the custody hearing, as well as the establishment of a church court in order to "try" my wife. I had just begun to talk to a woman that was going through a divorce (her husband cheated on her). I was feeling confident and my wife was pretty much leaving my day-to-day thoughts. And then she showed up at my door wanting to talk.

The point to all of this NW is that you do not know what is going on. Do not speculate based on outside appearances. You have enough information based on how she has acted around you, as well as what her friend has told you about trouble in Fogland, to KNOW that that relationship is doomed to failure. That doesn't mean yours isnt also. It just means that the OM's clock is ticking and he doesn't have much time now. But, how long? Who knows. A lot sooner if you stay dark and let them beat each other up. What is going on? Don't know that either, but signs are that they are trying to force things. Let me explain.

Okay, they just went thru all of these LBs that you described earlier. He is mad because she is pulling back from him, and she is not giving him her undivided attention anymore. He is mad because she is making demands of him that he never fulfilled before (YOU did) and many he doesn't want to fill (or cant). She is upset because you have no contacted her. So, she is mad and is going to show everyone that this will work, that it is the right thing to do. That is this doesn't work, she will look like a fool to everyone for going after such a stupid thing. So, she and he probably sat down (help me former WSs here) and had a relationship talk. They hashed out some differences, talked about improvements, and rededicated themselves to being there for each other. Sounds bad, huh?

BUT IT ISNT BAD! This is the BEST news yet. Neither of them know what you know about relationships. Otherwise, they wouldn't be doing what they are doing They are going to try again, doing the same things that just led them to pulling apart. My wife's OM told her that he didn't want to hear about me. But you see, she was in withdrawal from me. She needed to talk to someone about it, someone who would help her. But OM didn't want to hear about it because it meant that she still had feelings for me. Shoot, I had put this whole 50 picture montage together in a frame with pictures of all of us over the last 10 years and she had put it up in her living room. It had mostly the kids, but included a couple of just her and me and many of all of us together. It burned the OM's panties to see my smiling face looking at him when he came to visit.

So, he didn't want to talk about me with her. She NEEDED to talk about me. You see, now their relationship was in full swing. To him, she should be over me by now. She should be so in love with him that I am now a non-entity. His view is that he has been with her for over a year, spent all that time and money. Listened to her complaints about me early on. He has had enough.

But guess what? She NEEDS to talk. So she tries contacting me, or seeing me for stupid reasons related to the kids…just so she get two minutes of a MM-fix. That night she came over in late January to talk, she had told me that she was willing to come over and talk, even if it meant me going off on her. She just needed to talk to me. After that night, she began trying to call me 3-4 times a day. The rout was on!

But it all started with NC. It started with letting them get what they deserve…EACH OTHER! Your wife's OM is showing every sign that he is not happy with the situation. And your wife isnt either. They are in crisis mode. So, they rededicate themselves to each other. She shuts down all talk about you, and tries to be there for him. She tries to ignore you and your NC.

But, NW…she cant! Deep inside her, those feelings still have not been dealt with. They arent going to go away by rededicating herself to the OM. And the OM is going to sense this as they try. Things will "feel" different (again, FWSs…let me know if I'm off base here). He will get defensive because she isnt as happy to see him anymore. This relationship has now become work.

For the OM, it will become a nuisance. He didn't get into this with her to have to deal with all of this everyday stuff. While she was still acting married and sneaking around, it was great for him. Sex, companionship…and none of the work. Now he has to do everything, like he is married to her or something. Yuch! He doesn't want that. Not yet. Why cant things go back to the way they were? After all, werent they both happy then?

But wife, while intoxicated by the "adultery drug" might have been happy then, she is NOT happy now. She risked everything for this guy. She expected him to step up and be YOU! A better YOU! A different YOU. But now, he labors through doing the things she needs in everyday life. Why has this become so much like work? But she thought by running away, she could get in a relationship that she didn't have to work at. Your wife is now, the hard way, learning about how relationships REALLY work.

NW…hang in there. As has been posted above, there are no guarantees. Your wife could end up with the OM (but the odds are astronomically against that happening). She could get rid of both of you and start fresh. That is a possibility. Or she could come home.

But your wife has shown textbook examples of her following the WS SCRIPT. She has reacted to your Plan B and your NC as has been predicted and as other WSs have done so many times before.

One other thing. I will go into this a little more on my post, because this book I just read yesterday has helped me understand even further on what we are dealing with in these circumstances. Get and read "Love Must Be Tough" by James Dobson. READ IT! It isnt for your wife. It is for the Betrayed Spouse. Dobson covers so great what the Harleys call Plan B. The psychological dynamic. I want to use a quote here from Dr. Dobson:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">…it is also true that God often uses pain and crisis to bring a sinful person to his (her) senses. There is something about great stress that takes us back in the direction of responsibility. Remember that the rebellious prodigal son decided to go home to daddy only when his money ran out and he was eating with the pigs. A daily serving of slop does make one hunger for the fatted calf. In the context of the present discussion, there is a place for a deliberately conceived confrontation in a troubled marriage that may take it literally to the door of death.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">NW, you have now put your wife in a position of great stress. She is cut off from the "homeland." She is eating slop and is beginning to understand that she is. She is beginning to see that she didn't have it so bad at home. But, she is going to have to run out like the prodigal son ran out of money. She is going to have to run out of time, out of patience, out of love units in her love bank she is going to have to go emotionally bankrupt. Then, and ONLY then, will she look back home.

One other quick note. On the issue with the prodigal son. Notice that his dad looked and waited for him. He did not pursue him. Also, when the son was a long ways off (as he headed back home), the father had the servants prepare things at home for his return (the robe, the fatted calf, a party, etc). Your wife is now seen a far ways off. She may or may not be coming home. You should be preparing yourself and your home for that eventuality.

One of the biggest things I have found this week (again, check out my thread later today) about Plan B and about recovery, and even about marriage, is what Dobson writes in Chapter 5.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Marital discord almost always emanates from seething disrespect.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And… </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If there is hope for the dying marriages, then it is likely to be found in the reconstruction of respect.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">NW, read this chapter especially. It has helped me realize my problem this week. In your Plan B, you have not done what you have said you would do. It is obvious your wife does not respect you, or she wouldn't have left with the OM. She now tests your resolve. You give in, thus confirming her inability to respect you. And a spouse cannot love someone that they don't respect. You must be strong. You must be true to your word. I am not going to write down everything Dobson says in the book, but you need to read it to understand the dynamics of what you are dealing with here. Plan B is about protecting yourself. It is also about giving the WS what they deserve…the OP full time. But it is also about setting boundaries, and re-establishing respect.

One last thing (I promise). Dobson talks about Plan B, although he doesn't use that term. He talks about Opening the cage door. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The answer requires the vulnerable spouse to open the cage door and let the trapped partner out!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I will leave it at that. Order the book. Read it. But understand, your wife is not any different on the base level than mine or any other WS on here. Her addiction is still the same. She will have to go the same route to get out of it. Believe In the program, or not. It does not change what your wife HAS TO go through.

In His arms.

<small>[ August 08, 2003, 11:35 AM: Message edited by: Mortarman ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by now what:
<strong>Mimi,

I don't feel that it is a good thing. Yeah there is more time to LB but also more time to get closer to each other and for W to get further from me. Everytime I have pulled away in the past she has tried to call me, nearly begging me to maintain contact after a week etc... This time it is not happening which I feel is an ominus (sp?) sign. Witnin the last couple of months she told me that she was having trouble letting me go. I think that she has decided to let it go.

NW</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's because you lost credibility when you sabotaged your first Plan B attempt. But if and when you are finally and absolutely serious about implementing Plan B, then you may see that it will help bring an end to her A, but if you beleive and act otherwise you might as well get ready for more of the same old same old.