NW-

No, I haven't given up on you...

I'm just VERY busy with work, custody battle, and trying to get ready to go back to school.

I edited my thread and added a response to you, but I think you missed it.

Anyway-
I still feel that you need to stay in NC. She's teetirng and you need to get completely out of her life for more than two weeks.

She needs to drown in her pain so she can become a new person. You're preventing her from drowning because you keep throwing her a lifeline- contcat with you.

I'm still reading, but finding less time to post.

Stay dark-

NW, the reason I haven't really posted in detail about what she may or not be thinking or feeling is because it takes your focus back to her. No matter what, I'd be guessing...I might guess fairly acuratly, but it'd still be a guess. No one really knows, especially HER! So let her be. Focus on you and on detaching. Maybe once you're more detached and doing better with having some LIFE in your life, I'll give you more of my thoughts in that area. By then you may not care! But for now...detach and work on finding some happiness.

NOW WAHT,

Good to hear your starting to feel some of the effects of Plan B. It will get better.

But prepare yourself for times that you feel the need to call your WW. When you feel like that call a friend, do something else or come here. It will be tough.

My close calls (though I'm not in Paln B) involved my justifying that it's only an email to say hello, or just to let her know I'm still here. Many reasons jumped in my head to reach out and contact my WW.

Now if she does call or you do slip up also prepare yourself for the potential outflow of emotions you may feel. After my WW contacted me I went into a couple days of withdrawl for my WW and marriage. Not as bad as before but still noticably there.

<small>[ August 22, 2003, 08:20 AM: Message edited by: now what ]</small>

Kily - Thanks, I hope that I'm not too demanding on you. I know that you have a lot of your own problems too and I appreciate that you find time to help me. I went back and read your message to me on your post.

h4f - I was actually referring to your past posts where you gave me your thoughts but I'll take them again in the future too.

GG007 - Check your thread.

Nothing new, no more calls from W, just taking it day by day right now I guess and wondering what will happen next. I'm trying to put this out of my mind somewhat but it is very difficult. It prys into my every thought, my every moment.

I am having a party for my daughter who just turned six. The house I purchased has a pool so some of her friends are coming over to swim and she is excited. I'm glad that I am able to give her some joy in her life though all of this. Some of my friends are coming over too. Take care everyone.

NW

NW, as hard as it is for you to detach and try to gain some 'noise free' time in your mind...that's how hard it is for the WS to forget about the OP too. And while she's trying to figure out what the right thing to do is, the noise and panic is cluttering up her thoughts. Of course, all it would take would be some space and quiet productive time to gain that clarity...but WS's are hurting and running. They make decisions based purely on emotion...mainly lust, pain and anger.

So understand that if/when she comes back SHE is going to have to go through the same detachment and withdrawl that you need to do right now for a good Plan B. Only hers will be FOREVER, yours will just be FOR NOW!

It just takes time. I have experience there. It takes time and quiet contemplation. For her, she needs seclusion away from all of this and pretty much everyone else. For you, you get to live your life. Your decision is already made. You have NO DECISIONS to make at this time. Now, once she decides to come back, you'll need to decide if you still want her and what it will take from her to let her back. But for now, you're free. As hard as it is to live right now, it WILL GET EASIER, so just DO IT!

GO NW, GO NW, GO NW!! (I get great exercise doing that little dance) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

h4f - Thanks, I know that you are right. I do have one question and I am asking you so I get your FWS perspective. Why does she ask for the space / time, and then when I give it to her and have little to no contact with her, she calls after maybe two weeks or so wanting to talk, reconnect to some extent. She throws out little messages like "We need to communicate if we are ever going to work this out" etc....

Is it her cake eating, uncertainty in what is happening, not truly wanting me to move too far away from her, all of it?

NW

I was going to try and stay away from here for a few days but W has called me twice this weekend. The first call was a voice mail left on Saturday that I did not return and even debated about listening to it. I had the girls so knew that there was not an emergency or anything with them. I listened to it this morning and it was her asking me about our oldest daughter's first day back to school which is a week and a half away. She said that she wants to be there, wanted to know if I wanted to be there together,whatI wanted to do. She seemed nervous rambled about a couple other misc things and told me to call her if I wanted, or write to her, but basically get a hold of her when I had a chance.

Today my CP rings and I recognize the number as her oldest daughter's CP number. The daughter has called me on it before and she recently did and told me that she wanted to stop by and see my house. I figured it was her but nope it was W. She wanted to know if I had bought our oldest a backpack for school. I told her that I had not and that I had given her the school supply list as she requested. I also mentioned the money I had mailed to her for school clothes / supplies was for everything. It was more then enough money.

I then asked her for the answer to a question regarding an important matter that I had written her a letter about in lieu of calling. It is an important event related to the children that we both must attend. She answered the question and I said ok thanks, I have to get going.

She then started in with me about always wanting to get off of the phone, never wanting to talk and that I am being mean to her. I told her that I am not being mean. She told me that she did now did not want me to attend the function related to the children because I make her too uncomfortable. She said, "Ok, I will just pretend you are not there and I won't even acknowledge you." I told her that I was in the middle of a furniture store (which I was) and she said, "Oh, looking at furniture is more important then talking to me." She told me that she wants to have a good relationship with me and said "Can't you just get over this?" She said that I just want everything my way. I told her that if you want really want me "over this", to leave me alone. She started accusing me of lying about where I was, mentioned the letter (new PBL), and called me a hypocrit. I asked her what she was talking about and she started to say and then refused to answer me. she mentioned something about trying, I can't really remember the context it was used, and I told her that her actions speak louder then words. she then claimed tht mine do too and when I told her that I have been trying for 8 months and she just won't listen. she told me that my actions are speaking louder then words to her. What is she talking about. Because I won't let her cake eat? It went back and forth a little bit more and I felt myself becoming angry and drawn into a conforntation that I did not want to be a part of. I was at the end of my rope and hung up on her which I know really pi$$ed her off.

What the heck am I to do? She just set me back again. what does she really want? I think that she just wants me to be buddy, buddy with her like I am happy with all of this. I don't think that she really has any intention of coming back. Why does she have to do this too me? What the hell should I do?

<small>[ August 24, 2003, 06:56 PM: Message edited by: now what ]</small>

Fog fog fog fog fog...

You said you don't think she intends to ever come back...I've told you before, you don't really know that. Honestly, why would she keep baiting you if she simply didn't care. She's still stuck...don't get stuck with her. You need to be the logical one right now.

If she's going to keep calling and baiting you, you need to have figured out ahead of time what you're going to say, what length of time she's alotted on the phone etc... Did you have a good Plan B letter? It all should have been clearly defined in there exactly why you desire space from her. You might refer back to it and let her know that it hurts you to talk with her. That her actions cut you to the core of your being and that being friends with her is not in your interests. You're either her husband or you're not. She doesn't get 'friend' in the mix because it's not good for YOU.

We're off to a movie...I'll think more on this and get back to you tonight or tomorrow. More than anything...I still think you need to try to regroup, refocus, and get back to worrying about you. She's made her bed, let her lie in it.

You're OK. Just a little setback.

What I did was to never answer my phone. Let her talk to voicemail. She gets you caught in relationship talk. She doesn't even speak your language, NOW WHAT. She is speaking in alien dialect which cannot be possibly understood. Remember, NOW WHAT, she is not herself. She has been abducted by alien, evil forces. I've learned to totally ignore that crap that doesn't make any sense rather than trying to respond to it.

I have since learned through her friend (yes I know, but one issue at a time) that W thinks that I am seeing another woman and have her around my children. W is basing this on a comment that my 6 yr old daughter made to W's 14 yr old daughter over the phone. The 14 yr old then relayed it to W so it is 2nd hand on top of coming from a 6 year old. It is totally untrue and the comment is being takn completely out of context. Only problem is I can't address the issue because friend and I are not suppose to communicate not to mention Plan B.

NW

That's PERFECT, let her assumption just eat her up. DO NOT clarify that you aren't seeing someone.

She's angry because she's lost her safety net. She's testing the waters every couple of weeks just to see if she can still bait you. When you go completely dark she'll only have her wild imagination (and the heresay of a 6 yr old) to fill her head. It does wonders for fog clearing.

Mimi's suggestions sound great. Do what it takes to disappear out of her life for now.

Mimi - It is hard dealing with someone I USED to know.

h4f - My only concern is her friend mentioned that W told her about the recent letter (new PBL) and how I wrote all of these things in it but I am supposedly seeing someone hence the hypocrit comment. Friend was telling her how she ran into me at a store and I told her about new wicker furniture I had bought for my front porch, how I was excited about it because it matched the color of my house. W was upset over that (?), telling her friend, "I'm so screwed up" and talking about how now I have my house, she is getting hers, that she wished she never became involved with OM, that she knows that I would give her anything and work to make our relationship good and that I could probably make her happy now. That she has thoughts of getting back together and then she started complaining that (she thinks) I am seeing someone and am confortable enough to have "her" around our kids and that I am doing this even though I worte her the letter (PBL)

NW

FOCUS on living your life. Let her think you're a hypocrit...YOU KNOW THE TRUTH.

As a FWS I will tell you that we will spew forth whatever ridiculous thoughts come to our mind in order to justify our feelings and actions. She wants to feel 'right', so she's taken the tiniest shred of miscommunication and turned it in to YOU having an affair. WHAT A JOKE! THIS IS HILARIOUS! You should be LAUGHING at the ridiculousness of it all. I know I know...you don't feel like laughing right now. But it truly is ridiculous.

She doesn't need the truth right now, NW, because she'll only distort it anyway. So leave it be. Leave it totally alone. She's regretting her choices and feeling guilty and sorry for herself. It's part of the process!

So back to focusing on you. Got any new books to read? Have you thought of taking a class on anything? Or how about just sitting down and practicing some responses to your W for when she starts the fog talk again? Orchid is the reverse fog talk trainer around here. She's great at it!

Your WW is trying to goad you into having you break the no contact rule with her because she's convinced herself, either thru her own imagination or someone else's, that your no contact is probably because you've gotten yourself involved with another woman. As irritated as these false accusations against you may make you feel, resist the urge to respond to them for even if you were to do this, your vehement denial will be met with skepical ears so don't waste your time. Instead look at this development as a positive sign that she is slowly starting to open her eyes as to what reality might hold for her if she continues on her path of involvement with the OM.

Ditto to what everyone just told you. This is fog talk, plain and simple.

Look at what happens when you go dark. Go back and read your earlier posts, what your wife did and said when you went dark before.

NW, please, please, please do not go belly up again! Remember, as Mimi said above, she is an alien. Or at least possessed by an alien. My wife still has residual affects, and sometimes some fog talk. She is still trying to work through all that has happened. Why? Because now that she can see reality again, nothing makes sense to her. She looks at what she believed, what she saw while in the affair, and she cant make any sense of it. You cant either.

Every once in awhile, her head pokes briefly out of the fog, usually right when she starts to panic. Panic because she thinks she has lost you. And when she does stick her head out, she says things like she said to the friend, about wishing she had never met the OM, and she knows that you would be there for her. These are true statements.

But, when she ducks back into the fog, those statements dont make any sense. Reality makes no sense in a fantasy world, just as her fantasy world makes no sense in reality.

So, she goes back to the Script, saying the same stupid things. But do you think it is for YOU to hear? Nope. She is trying to convince herself that you dont care, that you have a girlfriend, that what she did is right. Guess what? As long as she doesnt have you there to use as a punching bag, she cannot convince herself of these things. Every time she tries to add two and two, she gets a remainder. And she scratches her head and wonders why.

Do what everyone said above. Stop answering the phone. Let everyone hit the voicemail, and then you call back whomever you wish (not the WW!). Let her worry about the supposed girlfriend. As H4F said, let her imgination run wild! Pain, pain and more pain for her!

She is more upset about the furniture, NW. I really believe that. You know why? Because she can ride by your house (which I KNOW she does) and see the new house, with the wicker furniture, and see that you have a LIFE now, one that does not include her (and a side not...she thinks it might include someone else). And then she drives back to the fantasy world of the OM...and it just doesnt look like it did.

Keep building your life. Keep working on you. If she comes home, you need to be prepared, emotionally, financially, etc. If she doesnt, you still need to do these things in order to get your life together, and be prepared for someone new.

Put yourself on a 12 week weight lifting program (many of them out there) where you are going to bulk up and get that six pack back. It is a short term goal, well help your confidence, make you feel better...AND, as a side note, when your WW sees you at an event that requires you to be there with her (like something for the kids), she will wonder what has happened to you. You even should go to the tanning bed during this. she will look at you and wonder...

But, while the added benefits are what the WW is thinking, it is NOT the primary reason I am advocating doing something like this. I am first, and foremost, advocating this because it is for you. It is a short term goal, that you can easily accomplish, especially right now when you have a lot of time on your hands. You need to string a couple of successes together, NW. Start with yourself.

You will feel better about yourself, and that will show to everyone. And then whomever ends up next to you at night as your wife, will be damned proud to be there.

In His arms.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Mimi - It is hard dealing with someone I USED to know.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I've found it helpful to think of my WS as being drunk or under the influence. When he is not high off of her, which he is not anymore, he is more like himself. When he was home and I was in PLAN A in January, I began to know when he was about to go see her. He would act giddy and high.

Steve Harley instructed me on this analogy.

h4f - I realize that her reasons for calling are NOT just to ask me about a book bag. Actually it is those reasons that cause me pain and confusion because I know that she has momentary clarity. As far as your question about new books, no none yet. I'm still waiting for Love Must Be Tough to arrive, and looking forward to it too.

TMCM - I know that she is trying to establish contact for many reasons. Partially to see where I'm at and because she probably is becoming concerned that I may be slipping away towards someone else. The other may be to initiate an argument with me to help justify in her mind what she is doing. It seems like no matter what I do, other then allowing her to cake eat, she takes issue with. She twists the circumstances around, whether real or percieved, as a negative on my part. I can do one thing and she complains and do the exact opposite and she will still complain.

MM - No I am not going belly up. It is so hard sometimes because she insinuates that friendship and communication with her is the path to reconciliation and that it takes time because she is working through resentment with issues in our relationship. I completely agree with her, with the exception that OM should not be part of the above equation.
I know that many of her negative statements are meant as much for her own ears as they are for mine. In fact, right or wrong, immediately after that CP call, I left a message on her answering machine because I suspected she was not home. I said that she knows deep down who I am, how I feel, that I have changed and learned from this. I mean she has told her friend and me all of this herself. I said that I realize that she says differently at times to make herself feel and believe that is not the case and to comfort herself when she is feeling discomfort. I spoke very calmly.
You are right about the wicker furniture too. Also, it reminds her of how much alike her and I are, what types of things that we enjoy, including sitting on the front porch in the furniture. She has always wanted a home with a front porch. I think that it also points to the differences with the OM and her. He is 50 years old and has lived in the same rinky dink, no character apartment for almost 10 years that he moved into after he ruined his last marriage with adultery. He is a loner, with no male friends, who spends much of his time drinking in bars. I mean possessions do not define who you are, but if you are willing to settle for next to nothing (he can afford much more)and this type of lifestyle, what does that say about his character?
As far as exercise. I have lost 40 lbs since this all started. The first 20-25 lbs or so was strictly from stress and not eating for days at a time. The rest came from exercising which I still do. As far as tanning goes, I started going again yesterday. I started tanning a couple of months ago and she saw my car there. She told her friend that it depressed her because she was afraid that I would become a man about town if you know what I mean.

A couple things that friend told me during our last talk a couple of days ago that I left out is that W said that she knows I am right about a lot of the things (character issues / traits)that I have said in the past about OM. She also said that I am right about a lot of issues I said about her too but that she can't let me know "right now" that I am right. I'm not really sure when or if she plans on letting me know this or if it is even neccessary as far as I'm concerned. She can confirm my feelings by ending the relationship with OM and returning to her family. Obviously she doesn't feel that strongly because she just continues to carry on.

Friend also told me that she invited W to a girls night out for one of her relatives birthdays. A bunch of girls are renting a limo and going to another nearby city for a night out. W said that she would like to go but will have to lie to OM and tell him that they are going to a different nearby city so when he tries to track her down he won't find her. W referred to him as the stalker. Friend asked her what does that tell her if she feels that she has to lie to OM and if that would be his reaction. I guess W didn't really answer. I know that I am a broken record but WHY does she continue this with all of these issues? What about her positve beliefs about me? I know, the fog, but if anyone has a more elaborate opinion or explanation I would love to hear it. I am assuming that whatever the OM does for her in a positive way outweighs all of this.

NW

NW,

A very good post by you. No panic, no vascilation. And you are asking a lot of the right questions!

Now, to your post...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">TMCM - I know that she is trying to establish contact for many reasons. Partially to see where I'm at and because she probably is becoming concerned that I may be slipping away towards someone else. The other may be to initiate an argument with me to help justify in her mind what she is doing. It seems like no matter what I do, other then allowing her to cake eat, she takes issue with. She twists the circumstances around, whether real or percieved, as a negative on my part. I can do one thing and she complains and do the exact opposite and she will still complain.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">NW, I will let Coffeeman chime in here and I know he will set you straight on this. My only comment on this is that her wanting to argue to justify in her mind what she is doing is EXACLY why you are in Plan B, and exactly why you should be having no contact. I just said almost that exact same thing in my last post. Her twisting things around, making you the bad guy, helps her keep going back to her addiction. And then she can have another day of not facing reality.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">MM - No I am not going belly up. It is so hard sometimes because she insinuates that friendship and communication with her is the path to reconciliation and that it takes time because she is working through resentment with issues in our relationship. I completely agree with her, with the exception that OM should not be part of the above equation.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">AAhhhh...I was goingto hit you with the 2x4, but then that last sentence said it all! And you redeemed yourself! That is why you sent the PBL. In that love letter, you stated you believe the same things...that your friendship and communication are what you want to work on with her to help re-establish your relationship. But you also said that it is impossible to do such while she is still with the OM. She KNOWS the drill, NW. What she wants is to cake eat. But she does know, deep down where the alien cant get to, that her friend NW is there. She is now having to face her own demons. More on this below.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know that many of her negative statements are meant as much for her own ears as they are for mine. In fact, right or wrong, immediately after that CP call, I left a message on her answering machine because I suspected she was not home. I said that she knows deep down who I am, how I feel, that I have changed and learned from this.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Okay, this was wrong. You are in Plan B! Now, I know why you called. And you left a message, so that wasnt so bad. But you need to stay on message, NW. If anything, you re-send the PBL. That's it! Mail it to her one more time. Let her read about your love, about your sorrow for the things you have done, about your opptimism about what can be. And let her read about how she is all of the control over that right now. That if she will rid your marriage of the OM, that you are open to working on the friendship, communication, etc. NW, stick to the message...do not try to make it up as you go along. Sure, you want her to know that she is wrong about how you feel, about the fact that there is no OW for you. But you telling her isnt going to mean much. She will just chalk it up to lies. But, if you will just stay with the PBL, stay dark, stay on message...wonderful things are starting to happen.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I mean she has told her friend and me all of this herself. I said that I realize that she says differently at times to make herself feel and believe that is not the case and to comfort herself when she is feeling discomfort. I spoke very calmly.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Like I said, stop this. No more calling her. No more messages from you, except on mandatory finance and kid related things. If you feel that you need to give her a message after one of her voicemails, re-send the PBL. But that is it until OM is gone!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are right about the wicker furniture too. Also, it reminds her of how much alike her and I are, what types of things that we enjoy, including sitting on the front porch in the furniture. She has always wanted a home with a front porch. I think that it also points to the differences with the OM and her. He is 50 years old and has lived in the same rinky dink, no character apartment for almost 10 years that he moved into after he ruined his last marriage with adultery. He is a loner, with no male friends, who spends much of his time drinking in bars. I mean possessions do not define who you are, but if you are willing to settle for next to nothing (he can afford much more)and this type of lifestyle, what does that say about his character?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My man, you knew all of this all along. Guess what? She knows this now too. She does. That is why she is trying to fence sit. She cannot believe what she has done, what she has believed. It is hard to understand what is real. She is starting to understand that that "drug" that has been making her so happy, actually has been destroying her life. And now, that drug doesnt have the same effect anymore. I work in the counter narcotics area. I have a picture of a girl who was prom queen, head cheeleader...typical blond, blue eyed California girl. At a graduation party, she first tried drugs...for the very first time. A friend got her involved in heroin. She was hooked right from the start. She went off to college with htis addiction, but tried to manage it. She still had her stuff together, looked good, went to classes, etc. But the addiction just got worse. Why? Because the heroin could never keep her sustained at the level of happiness that she had felt that first time. After awhile, just to get some level of relief, she had to start increasing her dosages. She ran out of money, and dropped out of school. She began to strip and became a prostitute...all to fuel her addiction. She began to loose her teeth, her health. She was raped many times and had acquired an STD. All of this within two years after graduating the top of her class in high school. For this addiction, she had lost everything.

When I saw her current picture during her arrst, this 20 year old who was so beautiful just two years earlier, looked like she was in her 50's. Her hair had almost fallen out. Only threeteeth in her head. She was just skin and bones.

NW, affairs are addictions. The Harleys are right. These people involved in these affairs have no idea what they are starting, and once swept up in them, feel powerless to stop it. At first, they try to manage it. But after awhile, they cant, it comes out in the open. Then they are willing to lose everything to keep getting their "hit." They dont want this. Just like that 20 year old girl. She no longer wants to be addicted. She wishes she had her life back. She wishes she had never taken that first hit. So does your wife, and has said as much lately. She has now woke up and seen the loser she is with. She also sees and remembers that life of family, wicker charis and respectability that she had with you. And she wishes she had never done this.

But that doesnt change where she is at, anymore than it changes where that drug addict is. That drug addict has to clean up first. To go through withdrawal. To feel immense pain! That isnt easy to get someone to WILLINGLY do. In order for someone to do that, the pain level of their current situation has to get so high that they literally have NO CHOICE but to pursue getting clean...otherwise they have to live with the pain forever.

Your wife's pain level is rising. She wants YOU to make it easier for her to go through all of this because she knows this is going to hurt tremendously. She does not want to go through that pain. So she will make excuses to herself and to others, why she cannot come clean.

I cannot wait until you get Dobson's book on tough love. NW, you are going to have to allow her to go into that pain. She has to go through it ALONE! You have told her that you are there on the other side (your PBL). She has to trust that. And the only way she will is through you continuing to push the PBL back at her, by you being CONSISTENT (you cant trust someone that is inconsistent) and by you allowing the pain in her to rise to the level that will force her to do something about it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As far as exercise. I have lost 40 lbs since this all started. The first 20-25 lbs or so was strictly from stress and not eating for days at a time. The rest came from exercising which I still do. As far as tanning goes, I started going again yesterday. I started tanning a couple of months ago and she saw my car there. She told her friend that it depressed her because she was afraid that I would become a man about town if you know what I mean.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ohhh, I know what you mean! Good stuff, NW. But remember, it is first and foremost about you. During the A, you felt like you were a loser, that this guy had beaten you, that you were a reject. But lately, that has all changed. You bought a house by yourself. You have been there for your daughter. You even bought wicker furniture! I know, smal stuff! But a small step is still a step forward.

I am a baseball coach. In hitting the baseball, we know that a slump is infectuous. If you arent hitting, it will tend to keep you not hitting. But string a few hits together and the slump will be over. And your attitude will change. And so will your confidence.

I too lost a lot of weight due to the A and the stress and depression (I was working out in Bosnia and came home at 185lbs...three months later during all of this mess, I was 145lbs...I am now back up to 175lbs). But this past winter, when I went to Plan B, started taking Prozac, and started moving forward, I started my workout program again. I started eating well again. And tanning. After a few weeks, I began to get out of the shower in the morning and see the successes that were happening with my body. Sure, they were small successes...but a small step forward nonetheless! This bled into other parts of my life. I began to do little things, for myself. At work. With the kids. A small things, with acheivable short term goals. As I met each one, I began to get stronger. I began to believe in myself again. MY life around me began to improve.

Now, while the major reason I did this was for myself, guess what residual effects were happening? My wife was noticing! She made some of the same comments that yours did.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">A couple things that friend told me during our last talk a couple of days ago that I left out is that W said that she knows I am right about a lot of the things (character issues / traits)that I have said in the past about OM.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My man...the fog is lifting!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She also said that I am right about a lot of issues I said about her too but that she can't let me know "right now" that I am right.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Like I said above, the alien still has her. Underneath it all, she KNOWS the truth. But she has a battle to fight right now...with herself!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm not really sure when or if she plans on letting me know this or if it is even neccessary as far as I'm concerned. She can confirm my feelings by ending the relationship with OM and returning to her family.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She will. Look, my wife still hasnt completely let go of some of her foggy notions. I am finding that it still takes time. But you are right...her first real acknowledgement that she has taken on the truth is the OM is gone!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Obviously she doesn't feel that strongly because she just continues to carry on.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">NW, stop this! She does feel strongly. That is why she is saying these things. That is why she is in pain. But she is an addict. That girl I told you about feels VERY strongly about getting her life back! But she is addicted. And until she is clean, she is powerless to act on what she knows she REALLY wants and needs. Same goes with your wife.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Friend also told me that she invited W to a girls night out for one of her relatives birthdays. A bunch of girls are renting a limo and going to another nearby city for a night out. W said that she would like to go but will have to lie to OM and tell him that they are going to a different nearby city so when he tries to track her down he won't find her. W referred to him as the stalker. Friend asked her what does that tell her if she feels that she has to lie to OM and if that would be his reaction. I guess W didn't really answer.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">AAhhhh...a loving, trusting relationship, huh? NW, come on my man...cant you see it? She sees that she is with a guy who is a loser, a "stalker," and has very few interests that she likes. He has emotional problems. And then there is NW! With the house with the front porch, wicker furniture, a dughter she shares with you...and so much more. There is no comparison here, NW...and she knows it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know that I am a broken record but WHY does she continue this with all of these issues?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">See above...it is an addiction. Like I said before, take what she says, and insert "heroin" for "OM." Then see if you look at what she is saying or doing any differently.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What about her positve beliefs about me? I know, the fog, but if anyone has a more elaborate opinion or explanation I would love to hear it. I am assuming that whatever the OM does for her in a positive way outweighs all of this.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Her addiction outweighs the pain right now. But the pain is increasing. Soon the addiction will not be able to cover up that pain anymore...then she will do what she has to do.

Hang tough NW. You are on the short path now. She cant take much more of this, if you will stay dark!

In His arms.

NOW WHAT:

Believe MM. Read his post again and again. I am printing it because it is so RIGHT ON!!!

I have refused to relieve my WS of the ongoing pain he is experiencing now in his A with OW who he is now living with in her funky, trashy house. I, like you, have the "wicker furniture on the porch house" that he is yearning for. He does drivebys, commenting on the new flowers I planted on Sunday.

Yesterday my WS was fuming about me pinning him down to a date. I did not back down. No NC letter, no Mimi. No sharing him with OW anymore!!!

Guess What? Just now he gave me a date. Not the date I wanted, in order to save his pride, but he gave me a date!!!!

Now What, if you can stay dark, you are right behind me. Our Wses have the same pattern with their cruddy OPs. They are ADDICTED to that trash for some reason. I think it's evil forces.

Hang in there!!!!

<small>[ August 26, 2003, 12:23 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>