Cerri,

I have been reading your post on Plan B and have a question. I hope you will answer so it will clear up some things, help me know what to do, and perhaps answer the questions for others.

I just read your post about not being a doormat and implementing Plan B and why some women go on too long with Plan A. My question is that I did not find this site, Dr. Harley's book, etc. until months after my WH moved out and in with OW, so I feel confused about where I should be - Plan A, Plan B, maybe neither???

When the WS has already moved in with the OW, and there are no C involved and you find yourself discovering that you should have Plan A'd or should have Plan B'd months ago, where do you start? My fear is that I have been a doormat for too long already because of my religious beliefs and I want to save my M.

Just for background, we were married 16 years, WH did this right before his 50th birthday, and I had no idea about the A until I started getting suspicious about 2 wks before D-day. She is a co-worker, she is younger and Dv'd has a 14 yr. old D and has money.

My H told me when he moved out that I was no fun any more and that I didn't support him with his work and that I should have been working and that he needed a safe place and that the OW was it. Of course I was no fun, I was very depressed. And I was not working because that was the arrangement we had agreed upon. I am not sure how accurate his statements are about the real reasons he was unhappy.

He does not communicate except occasionally (maybe once a month for 5 mins. to see how I am), and tells others that he has moved on and is happy. Well, that was months ago, I have no idea what he is saying now. Over the last year, there have been several times where he has called me and said things like, he just needed to hear my voice, or after I sent a letter in Feb. telling me him that I apologized for my part in causing the A, he called to tell me that he had waited a long time to hear those words and that it was a good start, at least. But he always grows more distant after each of these exchanges, I never know what is going on. He won't talk, or won't call back if I try to press him.

It will be one year ago next month that he moved out and because this was my 2nd M, his 1st, and I have tried to Plan A the last few months by sending cards and letters, which he tells me he reads and that he has kept them, but he never wants to discuss anything abou our M or where it is going. He asked me for a recent photo of myself a few months back. He had heard that I lost a lot of weight, and I am sending him one next month with a birthday card.

I know that I need to move to Plan B, but I am worried that he will see it as a manipulation and direct his anger at me in this regard by filing for D, since I have gone for a year telling him that I want the M and will be here for him. But i don't want to be a doormat and I want to stand up to what he is doing and let him know that it is wrong. How do most WS take the Plan B letter???? How do I implement a Plan B at this stage? Won't it seem odd to send a letter at this stage saying that I won't communicate with him until he breaks off with OW when he says he doesn't want to continue with the M anyway?

I would really appreciate your help in clearing this up. Thanks.

bump

Jeanie.... you said:

"I apologized for my part in causing the A."

..... YOU had NO PART WHAT-SO-EVER in "causing" your H's affair!

You did play a part in creating an environment within your marriage which may have made an affair seem like a reasonable choice ..... but YOU did not cause an affair.

Never say that.

Do you see the difference?

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

PS ... Cerri will probably be here on Monday. Bump up again tomorrow AM!

<small>[ June 29, 2003, 07:34 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

ok, thanks

Hey there.... I had a nice little post all written to you and then it got eaten in cyber space. I need to take a break, but I wanted to let you know that I did see this and I will reply.

C

Thanks Cerri. I will look forward to your response.

bump

Hi Cajeanie,

My question is that I did not find this site, Dr. Harley's book, etc. until months after my WH moved out and in with OW, so I feel confused about where I should be - Plan A, Plan B, maybe neither???

Mmmmm..... I don't know that there's a neither. Well, I suppose there is but it's not a pleasant place to be either. Very simply put, you can continue like you are, get a legal separation, file for divorce or begin a more focussed Plan A followed pretty quickly by Plan B. None of those is a whole lot of fun, and I'm really sorry you find yourself in such a yucky place.

When the WS has already moved in with the OW, and there are no C involved and you find yourself discovering that you should have Plan A'd or should have Plan B'd months ago, where do you start?

The answer to that is that it depends a lot on how you feel and what you've done so far. What did you do when you found out and then when he left? What sorts of things did you say about the marriage, about what you wanted and about what you were willing or were going to do? How did he react?

You may have already done some good Plan A groundwork. I would guess that you have.

My fear is that I have been a doormat for too long already because of my religious beliefs and I want to save my M.

So what form did being a doormat take?

She is a co-worker, she is younger and Dv'd has a 14 yr. old D and has money.

Is he living with her? Does she have her D there too?

My H told me when he moved out that I was no fun any more and that I didn't support him with his work and that I should have been working and that he needed a safe place and that the OW was it.

All brain cloud talk, you know that. No matter what was happening in your marriage it doesn't excuse getting oneself into an affair.

I am not sure how accurate his statements are about the real reasons he was unhappy.

I'm sure some of it is real. I think it's Mortarman who talks about the grain of truth in all the babble the WS engages in. My guess is that he wanted a recreational (fun) partner and that he felt you were critical or disrespectful.

He does not communicate except occasionally (maybe once a month for 5 mins. to see how I am), and tells others that he has moved on and is happy.

Hmmmmm..... that does make it difficult, doesn't it? And how do you respond to those things?

Over the last year, there have been several times where he has called me and said things like, he just needed to hear my voice, or after I sent a letter in Feb. telling me him that I apologized for my part in causing the A, he called to tell me that he had waited a long time to hear those words and that it was a good start, at least.

Ok, well you didn't cause the A, but it's ok to apologize for the part you had in the disintegration of the marriage.

But he always grows more distant after each of these exchanges, I never know what is going on. He won't talk, or won't call back if I try to press him.

Ok, then don't try to press him! Keep it light and pleasant and safe. Do you ever call him?

It will be one year ago next month that he moved out and because this was my 2nd M, his 1st, and I have tried to Plan A the last few months by sending cards and letters, which he tells me he reads and that he has kept them, but he never wants to discuss anything abou our M or where it is going.

Alright, then conversation about the M and where it is going is off limits. What do you think he would like to talk about? What are subjects that really interest him? Can you talk about those? The longer you can engage him in a conversation that feels really good for him, the better.

Your first, foremost and only goal at this time has to be to end the A. After that you can talk about where the M is going... and even if there is a marriage. Until then don't bring it up if it drives him away.

He asked me for a recent photo of myself a few months back. He had heard that I lost a lot of weight, and I am sending him one next month with a birthday card.

Cool! Be sure to get one that looks really good. Do you have a friend with a digital camera and some talent at taking pics? (with a digital camera you can see it right away and know if you need to take more or if you have a good one.)

I know that I need to move to Plan B, but I am worried that he will see it as a manipulation and direct his anger at me in this regard by filing for D, since I have gone for a year telling him that I want the M and will be here for him.

NO ONE wants to go to Plan B. It's risky and it's laden with all kinds of fears both irrational and real. But there comes a point when staying in Plan A is shooting yourself in the foot.

But i don't want to be a doormat and I want to stand up to what he is doing and let him know that it is wrong.

Mmmmm..... you and I and many others will agree that it's wrong. But as a spouse that would be disrespectful to say to him. What he needs to know is how you feel about it.... that it's very possibly the worst pain you have ever had. Does he know that? Have you told him?

How do most WS take the Plan B letter???? How do I implement a Plan B at this stage?

Most get cranky and nasty and threaten all kinds of things, and then they cool down. Remember, anger is pretty hard to sustain over the long term. And that things that are said in the heat of anger are things that come from the part of the brain that never developed beyond the age of 2.

Really. I took an anger mgt. class a couple of years ago and that was one of the things we learned.

Won't it seem odd to send a letter at this stage saying that I won't communicate with him until he breaks off with OW when he says he doesn't want to continue with the M anyway?

Possibly. But you only know what he says. You don't know what he feels and what he thinks. And besides, Plan B is about you. Actually, the whole process of dealing with infidelity has very little to do with what the WS says and does. It's a pre-set procedure that gets tweaked a little with each case, but for the most part you really need to follow the plan and ignore what the WS says. They have a brain cloud and they follow a script.... one that's riddled with lies and inconsistencies. If you follow their lead and rely on what they say you will surely fail.

I would really appreciate your help in clearing this up. Thanks.

I don't know if that is any help, but feel free to ask any other questions. I would say you have some Plan A left in you, at least for a short time.

Sorry took so long. What a week! And it's only Tues. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

All the best,

C

cerri,
Thank you from the bottom of my heart for your reply. I know this is long and I hope you can make your way through it. The most important part is, I wanted to know if you think it is time for me to go to Plan B, and secondly, if you think my living away from the area my WH is in makes any difference good or bad, and if there is any one thing that I could do before going to Plan B, that would make a difference.

I have been Plan A'ing for 4 months and plan to have July be the last month for Plan A. D-day was his birthday this month a year ago and I want to send him a nice card, his favorite brownies a really nice photo of me and a cd of our favorite music.

Then I think I need to go to Plan B in August, because I am going crazy with his 5 min. calls once a month or so. He doesn't want to talk about us, and I do fine between the calls, but then start to wonder when it gets closer to that month, when he will call, if he will call and what he will say. I have not been LB'ing during the calls, I try to be positive and upbeat and just chat about family things, etc., so I think that is good, but it seems that he wants to control when we talk and what we talk about.

Yes, the OW's D is living with my WH and OW and has been for the last year.

I had a total and complete melt down when I found out about the A. My WH sobbed and held me in his arms and said that he needed a separation, and when I asked if he wanted a D, he said no. I handled everything wrong in the beginning (calling him and begging him to come home to try to work it out), and I am sure that drove him further away. I asked him if he would go to counseling and he said no. We had several big arguments about money, so he didn't leave with the best impression of me. He had made up his mind by this time to live with the OW and nothing could change his mind.

We had been having some major financial problems, plus he missed out on a promotion at his work that he thought he would get, and all I did was complain, and I didn't offer him much support. That is what I mentioned in the letter to him about being sorry for, that and a few other things that I have since had time to think about.

I had to move out of our house and moved away and now live with my D and SIL - they are great, by the way. So I have not seen him and he never requests to see me. The first few months after I moved here, I had given up hope and planned for a D. That was before I found Dr. Harley's book in a book store at Christmas. I had asked God for a miracle and he sent me Dr. Harley's book. That was the beginning of my belief that my M could be saved. In Feb., my D cut an article out about Dr. Harley that was in our local paper and gave it to me. Then in March, I started coming to this website, and now I'm asking for all the help I can get to save my M. That's why I appreciate so much that you have taken this time with me. This board is my las resort for my M.

All my family and friends now think I have lost my mind and tell me constantly that my WH is never coming back and that I need to file for D and move on with my life. You have given me hope, at least, that there is a possibility and that I am not crazy for believing it.

He has asked me not to call his cell phone, because I am sure she checks that. I can't call the house where they live, he doesn't want me to. And when I have made an attempt to call him at work, he always says he will call me back, but never does, so I finally quit trying to call him at all. That's why the cards and letters that go to his work is the only way I have to Plan A. I have really tried to fill his 5 top EN's this way. I had to guess, but I think besides the one you already guessed, recreational companionship, they are admiration (it might be #1), SF, attractive spouse and financial support.

I know Dr. Harley says that it can be good to move far away, especially since we don't have any C, but I wonder now if he views that as my giving up, even though I have reassured him that I haven't in my letters. In fact, the cards and letters have been just the opposite - full of hope and care and admiration for his good qualities and praise about his accomplishments at work. But I wonder if he thinks I should have stayed and fought for him.

Yes, you are right about my part in the M, and there being some truth in what my WH said. I had been very depressed for the last year before he left and very critical of him and his work, I put on a lot of weight (which I have since lost) and I wasn't much fun to be around - but I haven't always been that way.

He loves golf, so I have tried to include something about it in my cards, like who won the most recent tournament, something specific about the tournament or the winner. Also, I will mention little things like my new bikini, nail color polish, just to let him know that I'm not wearing those "old lady" clothes anymore. I always tell him what's going on with my C and their lives and about oour GD.

So, I have done the best Plan A I knew how. I still welcome your comments on any way I can improve it.

Now, here is something you said which has really surprised me - no, I have not told my WH how much this has hurt me and how much pain it has caused. I thought that would be wrong, isn't it?? I have two AC from my 1st M, and my WH helped raise them and was a part of their lives. He helped give my D away 2 years ago at her wedding, and was there in the hospital when our GD was born, he always was so proud that she was his GD, and he taught my D how to drive, helped me throught the problems with my S and my S always came to him with his problems.

The only reason I am bringing this up is that he has had no contact with any of them, and they are so hurt and angry with him because of it. When I asked him about it in the very beginning, a year ago, he said that they would get over it and move on with their lives and forget about him. I know this was fog talk, but should I tell him now how much hurt he has caused them, because he was their stepfather, and they feel betrayed and abandoned just as I have? Isn't this wrong to tell him that? Shouldn't he be thinking that we are doing ok and moving on with our lives and doing great without him?

I am confused about this, can you clarify this for me. When he asks me how I am, I always tell him that I am doing great and talk about something positive going on. Should I be telling him how much we all miss him and want him?

One final thing, about being a doormat. I haven't filed for legal separation, or D. Because of that, my WH has decided that he doesn't owe me anything, especially financial support. We only had one car at the time, our 2nd car had recently bit the dust, and we hadn't replaced it, so he took off leaving me with no funds in the savings or checking and no car and no support since - that is what I mean about being a doormat. I guess that my family and friends feel that I should have gone after him, so to speak and tell me that I need boundaries and that he owes me, etc. etc. What are safe boundaries for me to set?

I know he will react with anger when he gets the Plan B letter, but if I am going to have any love left for him I need to do it next month. So, I really appreciate your assurance that the anger will fade. And, yes, I am really scared to cut off any contact with him, but I know I have to do it.

I have come a long way in the last year, but I have a long way to go, yet, so thanks for your reply and your advice. I am getting so much negative advice from other places, that I need to hear yours. Thanks, Cerri.

Keep up the good work. You touch so many people's lives and bring them hope and a voice of reason. May God Bless You.
Cajeanie

if you think my living away from the area my WH is in makes any difference good or bad,

I wouldn't have suggested it in the beginning, but it is where you are now so I don't know that you need to change. Especially since you are planning to go to Plan B fairly soon.

and if there is any one thing that I could do before going to Plan B, that would make a difference.

I think he needs to hear from you and your children how much this has hurt all of you. Not in a jusgmental accusatory way, but in a way that is courteous and about you. I can help you put that in a letter if you like.... it can be part of the PBL.

I have been Plan A'ing for 4 months and plan to have July be the last month for Plan A. D-day was his birthday this month a year ago and I want to send him a nice card, his favorite brownies a really nice photo of me and a cd of our favorite music.

Yep, I think that's fine. Does he have email that you can send things to?

Then I think I need to go to Plan B in August, because I am going crazy with his 5 min. calls once a month or so.

I think you've been doing some Plan A work for the past year, not just the last 4 months. It's time to get out of the pain and to protect yourself.

Have you talked to the OW at all? And who else knows about the A?

but it seems that he wants to control when we talk and what we talk about.

Sure he does..... then he won't get hit by any difficult feelings of guilt or responsibility.

I had a total and complete melt down when I found out about the A. My WH sobbed and held me in his arms and said that he needed a separation, and when I asked if he wanted a D, he said no. I handled everything wrong in the beginning (calling him and begging him to come home to try to work it out), and I am sure that drove him further away.

Don't beat yourself up. We all do that. I stood in the shower and screamed for an hour. Along with other not so nice things.... You're human and you just got hit with a terrible betrayal, it's normal to react that way.

We had been having some major financial problems, plus he missed out on a promotion at his work that he thought he would get, and all I did was complain, and I didn't offer him much support. That is what I mentioned in the letter to him about being sorry for, that and a few other things that I have since had time to think about.

No matter what you did or didn't do.... it doesn't make an A ok. It just doesn't. If he was that unhappy he needed to come to you and attempt to fix it and if that didn't work then he needed to end the M before moving on. Anything else is just not ok. The fact that you take responsibility for those things and apologized is wonderful. Don't blame yourself because he got himself into a situation that he shouldn't have.

[n]I had given up hope and planned for a D. That was before I found Dr. Harley's book in a book store at Christmas. I had asked God for a miracle and he sent me Dr. Harley's book.[/b]

Wow. I've had that happen many times in my life and it's always incredible. I always think my connection to the Harleys is so very oddly coincidental.... they are an amazing couple and the work Bill and Joyce do is immeasurable. I don't know that there is anyone I respect more. (ok some I respect as much... but they're at the top! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )


All my family and friends now think I have lost my mind and tell me constantly that my WH is never coming back and that I need to file for D and move on with my life. You have given me hope, at least, that there is a possibility and that I am not crazy for believing it.

Your friends probably have not been the WS. I have. I wish I could say stronly enough that no matter what the WS says and does.... you have no idea of what is actually going on in his or her heart. And that is the hope you need to hang onto.

He has asked me not to call his cell phone, because I am sure she checks that. I can't call the house where they live, he doesn't want me to.

Ok, well I would have called anyway.... at dinner time.... in the morning.... but (in case you didn't know) I'm a bit confrontational and I don't do ultimatums about much of anything. I would have liked to see that you introduced some conflict into their relationship. But that's fine.... you are where you are and we'll go from there.

That's why the cards and letters that go to his work is the only way I have to Plan A. I have really tried to fill his 5 top EN's this way. I had to guess, but I think besides the one you already guessed, recreational companionship, they are admiration (it might be #1), SF, attractive spouse and financial support.

Good. If that's how you had to do it, then you did just fine. I would ask how one fills a need for SF in a card.... but I don't think I want to know.... far too early in the morning for that!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I also question the FS.... but it's possible.

In fact, the cards and letters have been just the opposite - full of hope and care and admiration for his good qualities and praise about his accomplishments at work. But I wonder if he thinks I should have stayed and fought for him.

He might. But you can't go backwards. It sounds like you said the right things in the cards and letters.

and I wasn't much fun to be around - but I haven't always been that way.

I'm sure you weren't!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Also, I will mention little things like my new bikini, nail color polish, just to let him know that I'm not wearing those "old lady" clothes anymore.

Oh that's good! I like that. Be sure the pic you send is really really good.

I always tell him what's going on with my C and their lives and about oour GD.

Send some pics of them too, if you can.

Now, here is something you said which has really surprised me - no, I have not told my WH how much this has hurt me and how much pain it has caused. I thought that would be wrong, isn't it??

No, he needs to know that his actions have an effect on you and that they hurt. He needs to know that he's hurting others in your family too. Otherwise he's off there in his little fantasy world with her thinking that everything's fine. Guilt is a good thing.... he should be feeling guilty, he's done a terrible thing!

See people confuse a LBer with causing discomfort. They're not the same. Honesty frequently causes discomfort.... I am never thrilled to hear that my H doesn't like something I've done.... makes me downright cranky! But without that knowledge I have no way of knowing that I've hurt him and no way of recognizing that I need to make a change.

In the same way, a WS will assume that you're just fine with them moving on... or at least they can fool themselves into thinking that unless they hear from you that this is terribly painful... probably the worst thing you've ever gone through.

The only reason I am bringing this up is that he has had no contact with any of them, and they are so hurt and angry with him because of it. When I asked him about it in the very beginning, a year ago, he said that they would get over it and move on with their lives and forget about him.

Right and by not letting him know that they are hurt and angry his belief that they will get over it and move on has been reinforced.

I know this was fog talk, but should I tell him now how much hurt he has caused them, because he was their stepfather, and they feel betrayed and abandoned just as I have? Isn't this wrong to tell him that? Shouldn't he be thinking that we are doing ok and moving on with our lives and doing great without him?

Now, why would you want him to think that they are fine and moving on? How does that help encourage him to come back?

Ok, what if it was a job that someone was leaving.... would they be more inclined to reconsider another offer if their current place of employment let them know they really wanted the person to stay or if they just turned their back and went on with business?

When he asks me how I am, I always tell him that I am doing great and talk about something positive going on. Should I be telling him how much we all miss him and want him?

Both. You need to be upbeat and pleasant and at the same time let him know that the A is painful and that you would like him to come home. He really needs to know that the kids miss him.

One final thing, about being a doormat. I haven't filed for legal separation, or D. Because of that, my WH has decided that he doesn't owe me anything, especially financial support.

Oh noooo.... he needs to take financial responsibility. I would say do a legal sep if you can. How long were you married? 16 years? And he supported you? Oh yeah..... he needs to pay support.... ask for the moon and the stars. Make it hurt.

What are safe boundaries for me to set?

The ones you'll state in Plan B.... but file for a sep now and get some support.

I know he will react with anger when he gets the Plan B letter, but if I am going to have any love left for him I need to do it next month.

And... what's the alternative? That you let him just continue this way? The marriage will end for sure if you do that. It might end if you do Plan B... but you'll have taken a stand for you and burst a little of the fantasy bubble.

Thanks, Cerri.

Very welcome. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

May God Bless You.

She does, every day. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

C

bump <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

cerri,

I wanted to answer your Q about OW. I have never confronted her, do not know her, and never seen her. Do you generally recommend confrontation??? Can I just send her a copy of my PBL with a note at the bottom like in SAA?

Also, all our friends and family member know now. His family, of course, is being very supportive of him, they say they are trying to stay neutral. He has had no contact with most of our friends that we have had for years, even the best man at our wedding, but I have talked to all of them, finally, although it has taken me a long time. Some of them want to call and confront him, is this a good idea or bad idea? They have ask me and I don't know what to say.

About her D living with them, you ask me, and the answer is yes, but is this significant?

Thanks, I get it now about Plan A and Plan B. Sorry to say, I just wanted to get my WH back and my M, and the fact that PA and PB are to "end" the A first before working on the M, must have gone over my head or I missed it. I can see now where my being non-confrontaional might be a detriment to that and how I confused being honest with LB'ing, but I guess I go forward from here.

I really want to tell him how hurt I was and how much pain this caused me and my S,D & GD, but do I wait and put all of this in the PBL in August, or can I write and tell him now, right before his birthday and also right before the anniversary of D-day?

I'm sorry to tell you that I even told him last September, that I wanted whatever was the best for him and whatever made him happy, and if that wasn't me, then I understand. (Ok, please don't slap me up the side of the head, I didn't know what I was doing at that point.) He was telling me how happy he was and that they never argue and that she understands him and that she understands his work because they work together and I never did any of those things.(Of course, you know that's lie, right?)

It took me 3 months after that conversation to recover - I just shut down. I am usually a very strong person, and this may be part of what is going on, everyone always thinks that I am very strong emotionally and can handle anything, but this time, I just couldn't. I think in many ways, my WH feels that I am a strong person, emotionally and also, because of my faith, and that I will do fine no matter what. He doesn't know that I had a break-down, and that it took me a long time to recover, or how much pain and sorrow we have all been going through. I want to find a way to let him know that, but, as you pointed out, by not attacking him. How would I phrase that?

Later in that conversation he told me that deep down in his heart, he truly feels that we will be back together some day, he couldn't explain it, but that's the way he feels. I know now that this is just all fog talk, but it made me crazy at that point, and he has been that way over the past year, sometimes leading me to believe that we will get back together and other times, being extremely hurtful and distant He has never filed for D or brought up D during this whole time, except when I asked hin if he wanted one on D-Day and he said no, he didn't think that we were at that point yet, he thought we just needed some time apart. Is this normal in this type of A, don't they usually start asking for a D right away????

I am just about at the end of my rope, so I know that I need to go to Plan B. I'm not sure how to write the letter, and exactly how far to go in telling him how much pain this has caused me without sounding pathetic and whinney.

Do you have any specific recommendations for any steps I could take between now and when I actually send the PBL in August, besides the birthday gift? And any suggestions for what I put in the PBL? I have the sample one in Dr. Harley's SAA, but that situation seems a little different.

I also wanted to ask you if you have any statistics on recovery from the type of A that my WH is in? I know that he is at the far end of "the most serious" according to SAA. But I know that Dr. Harley says that most A's eventually end. I guess I am just looking for something concrete to hold on to to get me though Plan B, but I also know that there are no guarantees - I just believe in focusing on the positives.

I hope that you have a great 4th weekend, and I will bump this back up on Mon. and hope that you will answer me - I'm sorry these posts are so long.

Thanks again.
cajeanie

Cerri,

Re: email

He is not allowed to receive persoanl email at his work, and it is monitored, and if they have email at OW's home, I do not have the address or any way to get it, so emailing him is not an option right now.

cajeanie

Cerri,

Everything has changed. I was just told on July 5th by a friend of my WH's brother, that my WH and OW just had a baby on July3rd. None of us even knew that she was pregnant.

I cannot believe or understand how my WH could not tell me this. And why hasn't he filed for a D from me to marry her? I am so confused right now.

He has kept it a secret and only his mother and sister knew, but they do not live near me and I have not kept in touch with them and they said that WH had asked them to keep it a secret and they were just honoring his wishes.

WH and OW live 800 miles away from me and I have not seen them in last 9 months, but you know the rest of the story over the last year since D-Day because it is in above posts.

Have you ever heard of anything so bizarre in your whole experience of couseling people?
We are all stunned and in shock that WH would not tell me, and that he has not asked me for a divorce and has continued to let me send him cards and letters as recently as last month telling him how much I want our marriage to work and that I love him.

As if the A and his moving in with OW wasn't bad enough, now the shock of this. I don't know what to make of this or how to even begin to understand this.

He couldn't possibly think that I would ever want him back once I found this out, could he? Do they really think that way?

I don't know what I am going to do now, but guess it doesn't matter now whether I finish my Plan A and it would seem pointless to send a Plan B letter now, wouldn't you agree?

Thanks for your help, but everything has changed and now I am left trying to figure out what I will do now.

I'm just a little crazy right now so if you have any perspective on this, please let me know. As you might expect, family and friends are just as shocked and confused by my Wh and OW's behavior as I am, and we are all left feeling this new betrayal and pain and wondering why.

cajeanie

Cerri,

Please reply. Does this mean that my M is over?
Should I file for D now?
How could ny WH be so heartless and cruel to not tell me this?
I have been very up front with him the whole time about writing to him and telling him that I want our marriage to work, that I love him. Why, why, why, didn't he tell me this, and continue to let me write him and let me think there was hope.
I feel so betrayed by him, and so do my children. It's like going through the intitial one all over again, except it it worse.
Please help me, what is going on with him?
cajeanie

Cerri,

Please respond. Thanks.

Oops... sorry. On vacation the 3rd through yesterday, barely touched the computer! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Worked this morning and then had to get kids from their dad today (2+hour drive one way) Must catch up on client email. Back asap.... hopefully tomorrow??

C

Jeanie, just a note to offer some support. What a horrible shock! I'm sure you're still reeling from it all. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Your marriage as you knew it is most definatly over. It just can't go back to what it was now that there's an other child in the picture. It doesn't mean he couldn't come back and you couldn't work it out...but that would be a choice for YOU to make, not just him. At this point he seems to have been keeping you on the line to feed his ego and fill some needs (I doubt he has any idea how much you truly mean to him in his life).

I'm not sure what Cerri would advise, but I would guess a staunch Plan B might be in order...to protect YOU from even more pain as he comes up with excuses for what he's done. And in that time you may decide what he's got to offer isn't acceptable to you...then you would know you are ready to DV.

Whatever happens, hold on to your self esteem. You are still a valuable and worthy person capable of loving and being loved. What he's done is all about him and his problems. Take care of you!!

Cajeanie....

I'm so sorry. I can't even begin to imagine how hard this must be. Sorry I've been away. It's been a very busy couple of days getting kids home and attempting to catch up after being on vacation.

Everything has changed. I was just told on July 5th by a friend of my WH's brother, that my WH and OW just had a baby on July3rd. None of us even knew that she was pregnant.

I'm sorry. It's terrible news and a terrible way to find out.

I cannot believe or understand how my WH could not tell me this. And why hasn't he filed for a D from me to marry her? I am so confused right now.

Because he doesn't know what to do. And I have to say that I feel really sorry for her and for the baby, he's certainly no great catch if he would treat you this way.

Have you ever heard of anything so bizarre in your whole experience of couseling people?

Unfortunately, yes.

We are all stunned and in shock that WH would not tell me, and that he has not asked me for a divorce and has continued to let me send him cards and letters as recently as last month telling him how much I want our marriage to work and that I love him.

As I said, his moral and ethical character at this time certainly leaves much to be desired.

He couldn't possibly think that I would ever want him back once I found this out, could he? Do they really think that way?

I don't know. I think they paint themselves into a corner and don't have a clue how they got there or how to get out. No, I don't think he thinks you would take him back at this point. But the real question is.... how do you feel about it?

it would seem pointless to send a Plan B letter now, wouldn't you agree?

No, if you have any interest in saving your marriage then I think a PBL is very much in order. And yes, that would be a fine way to confront her.... send it to her with a note at the bottom just like in SAA.

Did I give you the guidelines for the PBL? Here they are:

• I love you.
• I married you for life. I want to stay married to you
• I am willing to do what it takes to be the spouse you've always wanted and to address the things I did wrong in the marriage.
• The affair/neglect/abuse is so painful for me that it will destroy the love I have for you. In order to protect those feelings I must end all contact with you.
• As soon as the affair/neglect/abuse is over I would love to talk with you about our future.
• Until that time please respect my wish for no contact whatsoever
• In an emergency you can reach me through______.
• Arrangements for seeing children and handling finances are_____.
~~~~~~

Some things may not apply since you've been apart for so long. If you want to post it here I'll help you with it or you can send it to me at help@saveyourmarriagecentral.com Put your screen name and PBL in the subject line. I'm a little overwhelmed with mail right now... that way I'll be sure to see it right away.

C

oh and {{{{{{cajeanie}}}}}} <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

C

Thanks hope4future, I am going to need all the support I can get and most of it now comes from right here at MB.

Cerri,

Thank you, thank you, thank you - do you know how much your reply means to me right now???

ok, I will take some time, write a PBL, and see what happens.

WH wasn't always like this, it's like something snapped in him.

But I believe that when I made my wedding vows to him, I promised for better or for worse. As much as I want so badly to run screaming from all this, it feels as if God is asking me to stay and wait for him to work. I can't imagine how or why, but with everyone's support here I know that I will come out better for all this somehow. I trust in God's promises and I may not be confrontational, but I can be a real [censored] sometime - when I decide to plant my feet and stand, nothing can move me!

Thanks Cerri, I really needed to hear everything you said.

I know there are so many out ther hurting, I wish I could do something to help.

Much thanks, may God Bless you and your family, Cerri.

cajeanie