Lots of new names here, really kind of sad. I just "celebrated" my 2 year d-day anniversary on June 16, I thought things were going well, although I don't think I've ever fully trusted him again.

D-day I found a card from the OW which brought his alleged emotional affair to my attention. Yesterday was like deja vu and I'm hurt and upset but most of all I'm angry. At 4 am I got up to take a pain pill and on the way back to bed I tripped over H's suit jacket which he had hung over a dinging room chair. The chair fell, the jacket fell and things spilled all over the carpet. I was annoyed but stepped over it and went back to bed thinking I would pick it all up in the morning.

Morning came and I was the first one awake as usual. I flipped on the coffeemaker and went into the dining room to pick up the mess. After standing the chair up and picking up H's jacket, I started to pick up the things that had fallen from his jacket - you know the usual, pens, checkbook, notepad, candy bar, torn up card from the former OW. I felt like I was kicked in the stomach. I honestly couldn't breathe. I just left everything on the floor, but one small piece that said I miss you, got a cup of coffee and went out by the pool to cry.

When H woke around an hour later I was in the kitchen getting more coffee. He said "what happened here?" I said "I tripped in the dark and you just got busted again". Then I walked back outside. A few minutes went by and he came out all angry and confrontational yelling "lets get this straight right now". I just looked at him, waiting to hear his latest excuse. Unreal - he denied that there was a torn up card there. I told him very calmly what I saw and that i still had a piece. He turned into a mad man, screaming that he is sick of this and that I know where he is every minute of the day and he stormed into the house.

He left for work without a word and didn't call home all day. Obviously I didn't call him either. After work he came home and took the kids out to dinner. I declined the offer to go. He hasn't said a word to me since and slept downstairs on the couch last night.

Now I don't know what to do. He acts as if I did something and he's totally innocent. I'm so angry and so hurt by this. I don't know what to do. I feel like I've wasted 2 years trying to fix something only to find it was never fixed at all.

Help anyone!

Hi TinyDancer,

I am sad to see you back here and am so sorry you are still going through this. I don't think there are any easy answers here. The fact is that you can't force someone into recovery against their will. Recovery doesn't take place until no contact starts.

Has he ended contact with her? Did the OW send him this card unsolicited or has contact been going on all this time? I have to say that I find his reaction to your discovery very disturbing, almost bordering on cruel.

cruel, but understandable. The best defense is a good offense, and he sure was offensive. IMO you did pretty good under the circumstances. Kept calm, did NOT let him pull you into LB'ing behaviour thereby evening the playing field (using foggy ws thinking). The initial skirmish is over, you prevailed in terms of proper behaviour. Ball is in his court.

1. He apologizes for rude behaviour and opens discussion.

2. Both of you pretend it did not happen and life goes on.

3. He initiates seperation talk in a gambit (for real or not, who knows) to placate you OR scare you.

4. He threatens you in some way to get you off his back.

5. He begs forgiveness, admits he has a problem, and pledges to do whatever it takes to correct it cause he wants the marriage....at this point you apply your developed expertise in MB and rules of protection and see what happens.

6. You decide this was the line not to be crossed, and initiate a seperation for such time as you deem necessary while you reevaluate his behaviour while seperated (should be similar to #5), and decide whether he will ever be safe, and act accordingly.

7. You decide their is no marital future under any circumstances (he is not marriage material) and accept you made a marital error. Strive for an amicable divorce, and accept you are starting over, bruised and battered, but smarter and wiser, and will be ok.

8. Decide on sacrificial marriage (for kids, security, whatever), stop having any expectations, make a life without H in it (except as a roomate), and be as happy as possible with your fate.

9. Jump off a bridge......oops, forget that one.

10. Throw H off a bridge....hmmm....no, forget that one too, might land on an innocent passing boater.

11. self medicate, anxiety drugs, alcohol, food, shopping, etc. DON'T DO THIS you are much too valuable to flush yourself down the sewer.

12. Take up high risk sports (or ewncourage H to do so).....not for me, but maybe taking up a low risk (but strenuous) physical activity might help the mental enviroment.

For now TD, take protective action if necessary. Especially re financial issues. Get your name off all debts, secure all accessible money. Consult an experienced attorney. Secure anything of importance/value to you. And if possible gather evidence, either yourself, or investigator, cause clearly he has not been honest with you. It could be minor, or it could be major involvement, you cannot believe anything he says, so seek independent verification of all he says, as well as anything else. Contact the ow (and owh) if you have not allready done so. Involve rest of family etc, if not allready aware. Contact your support structure, put them on alert. These are all distasteful actions, but they have the added benefit of putting you in control of your life, and that is important now when you are feeling completely lost and alone. Also do not take on any new responsibilities, especially financial, or get pregnant. Be calm, stay focused, assume nothing, and know regardless of outcome you will be ok, if you want to be.

His reaction is very disturbing, it is inconsistent with a minor backslide, and suggests much more serious issues....even if not with ow, then with how he views honesty, openess, and protection in the marriage.

Thanks for the replies.

Melody, as far as I know contact ended when the OW quit her job working with him. I do know that she is now divorced. My H says he doesn't know who sent the card and I say yeah right. I despise that answer "I don't know". He swears he hasn't seen or heard from her until now, then in the next breath he says he doesn't know why I think the card is from her. It was sent to him at work, I saw the address on the envelope. Even if she sent it and he hasn't been in contact with her, he should have told me. He chose to hide it.

sufdb,
I think I'll opt for #10 and just be sure there are no boats in the area. His reaction is very disturbing, you're right. It takes me back to all the denial after the first time.

Thanks for the advice. I just don't begin to know where to go from here.

TD,

These types of reocurring d/ds hurt but eventually you will get your santity back. Your description is not dramatic but all to real. U know me and others....been there done that.

What to do now? Well his anger is betraying his words. Now watch his action and you will need to put to work all you learned before. Except this time, you tolerance level will be shorter.

Refresh yourself with plan A and B concepts. Figure out where this hurt set you back. Make sure it is real and not exaggerated, then move forward.

It is ok to come back here. You have support here. Get with you MC or Steve/Jennifer as needed. You know your way around. We will be here for you (except me having to help out in-laws, work and stuff - LOL!! ). <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by sufdb:
<strong>....
His reaction is very disturbing, it is inconsistent with a minor backslide, and suggests much more serious issues....even if not with ow, then with how he views honesty, openess, and protection in the marriage.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">SUFDB,
U know Sufdb, if I didn't know you better, it might be easy to think you'd be one good guy to work with. Often your posts sounds sooo good on paper/post, but the haunting thing in the back of my mind is do you really believe what you write? Do you practice what you write or is it just for others?????

L.

Hi Orchid, thanks for your input and advice, especially your reminder to use what I have learned here. I know so many of you have been through this and I think thats what drew me back. It's good to have people who understand giving their take on the situation.

I'm more calm today, just not sleeping again as anyone can see. I'm going to take a few days to gather my thoughts and then I'm going to talk to H. He refused MC before, calling it foolish and so I went alone. This time I think he needs to make the effort or I fear we'll be seeing a divorce lawyer <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

reasons could be many, and not necessarily a full-blown affair again, e.g.
- as OW now divorced, she might now be pestering your H
- your H chose not to tell you , in order not to hit any triggers (which is wrong of course); maybe thinking that he will be protecting you from that cr@p...

but then again, it could be that he was with her all along... I've learnt to trust my gut feel on these things. What does your's tell you?

N

Hi Nick, I know you're right that it could be nothing and my heart and my mind want to believe that but I also trust my gut and it's screaming at me. Although I don't think he's been with her all along, I can't believe that this was the only contact, after all what are the chances that he would become so careless with "evidence" so quickly.

Sometimes I'm way too logical but it's always served me well. Most things are just as simple as they seem and this seems like a man who has been getting away with something and so he becomes careless.

In a surprising turn, I told him that my bottom line is WE go for MC or I'll start proceedings for a legal separation. I said it with no anger, no emotion, just a point blank statement. H came home from work and I asked if he talked to anyone about having our trees trimmed. I then asked if he talked to anyone else and he answered that he talked to his doctor and got a recommendation for a MC. I almost died of shock. I held myself in check though and just said ok. I hope he follows through with an appointment. I just feel this has to be his choice. Like Orchid said, you can't force someone into recovery, I just feel that sometimes they need to know your bottom line.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts on this. I think I'm still numb from my discovery.

Hey, I think that's good news. You'll have a neutral place to talk openly and frankly about it all. In our case, the MC helped us to communicate better and understand each other better (however, it still takes an elemntary will to make a relationship work, which, sadly, my wife lacks to this day).

Just make sure that the MC is suitable... I remember having read a few horror stories on this board about so-called MCs who actively torpedoe relationships. Better make sure of that before you start the first joint session, otherwise it's like " you dont like what he is saying, that's you want another MC ".

<small>[ July 01, 2003, 06:40 AM: Message edited by: Nick123 ]</small>

TD,

I am so glad he has agreed to go to MC, however, it would be even better if he would agree to just be honest about whats really going on. I think you should trust your gut on this one.

I am like you in that I used to place intuition in the same category as superstition and ignore it. I ignored it to my DETRIMENT every time. I use my intuition very much now and act on it with my logic, and it has made a remarkable difference in my life. I think intuition is a GIFT to be used, not ignored. Anyway, I sincerely hope you continue to heed your intuition.

Are you snooping on him? I would be doing some serious snooping about right now if I were you. Take care!

Thanks again.

Nick, thanks for that advice. I hadn't thought of that. I am making the first appointment for just myself to check this guy out. I'm sorry your wife hasn't found her way through the fog. It really stinks the things WS's put us through.

Melody, I agree. I wish he could/would just be honest. I think the truth can't hurt more than this feeling of not knowing. I hadn't been snooping but sadly, today I went through everyone of his suits and I even looked in his car before he woke this morning. Nothing there but we all know that proves nothing.

I've spent the last few days doing the craziest things. Today I looked at the pieces of the card that I held on to and I went to the store and found the same card. I needed to know what it said. If the card was any indication, they aren't seeing each other. It said something like "Thoughts of you fill my day, I miss you." Ugh, I want to hunt her down and well...use your imagination. I'm still extremely angry that he didn't tell me and I keep wondering how many other times there was contact that I didn't know about.

I'm still hanging in and hanging on. I hope the MC works out and maybe he can help H to see how important honesty is.