I went out with a male friend last night to dinner and theatre -- H was at the same gathering (small town) and started acting strange. Stood within earshot of our table of four (another couple who are old friends of mine and H's) and began having loudish conversation while glancing occasionally and surreptitiously at me. His energy completely dominated our table for about ten minutes or so. It was strange. OW was off somewhere, but seemed to be acting clingy a little later. It could be a coincidence, but...

This morning at Farmer's Market, a place he's likely to see me, he was conspicuously without OW. Had lunch with male friends -- again, conspicuously without OW. Stared at me. I ignored him.

Really, there isn't much for me to do but ignore him on both occasions -- not "see" him. But as some of you may recall, he's had a strong reaction before when he sees me with male friends.

So this seesaws back and forth, but never really goes anywhere. He still lives with OW, who is weird. What is going on in that household I have no idea. He will never admit he made a mistake and move out, so it will have to blow up in his hands before he gets out -- IMVHO.

So this all keeps adding up to zero, from what I can see. I'm likely to see him tomorrow -- could give him a big smacker on the cheek, with or without OW around, for a 180. But again, there's got to be a lot more effort on his part to undo this mess. A smacker would just make him feel like I'm on hold for him, I guess, and that's part of the recipe that doesn't seem to go anywhere.

Advice???

<small>[ July 06, 2003, 02:48 PM: Message edited by: A.M.Martin ]</small>

A big "smacker"? .... maybe.

A sly wink instead? .... maybe.

Lick your lips and blow him a Hollywood kiss? ... maybe.

Lick food off your fingers? .... maybe.

But, here's my very favorite..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

If you notice him watching you in the Farmer's market ever again .... start fondling the vegetables, really love that squash for all your worth!

LOL!

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

PS .... I would do any or all of the above whenever the OW is around as well! Might as well let her enjoy the fireworks too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ July 05, 2003, 08:59 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Pep,

U naughty girl!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

AM,
Turn on that charm and keep it at a distance.

You are right you don't know the details and I applaud you to be able to say it without breaking down. That was hard for me (the one who always wanted to know .....everything - LOL!!). I have learned to be content with what I need to know and have healed much better as a result.

Stroke that English cucumber..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

take care,
L.

Gosh ... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> this could only happen when you put venusians together. Looking forward for BBQ in the Zoo <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> -rh-

But does this ever go anywhere, or does it just seesaw around forever? Another (male) friend dropped by for dinner tonight -- someone H would feel very safe having me with -- so that helped me forget about this mess for a couple of hours. Must get back to work now.

Maybe I'll blow a kiss...

AM,

Well you are certainly a witty one and a bit daring! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Didn't think there were any more 'small towns' in our neck of the woods. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

So the WS is out flaunting it with the OW? What are your friends saying? Not that it matters 100% but it is good to know how they would react should they witness an encounter of an 'Alien' kind. LOL!!!

L.

Don't know. They seem to be gradually accepting it as a fait accompli -- at least to my eyes. According to friend who was over tonight, most people find it a bit weird, but think he must see something in her we don't. People cut him an enormous amount of slack.

But except for the friend tonight, who is a close friend, I don't solicit mutual friends' opinions, as it puts them in an awkward position as spies. Moreover, I'm not likely to hear the truth, but something tailored for my ears. Moreover, it could get back to H or OW that I am seeking info, which would weaken my own position.

I don't feel daring at all -- just kind of helpless. Going out, having a good time, and avoiding eye contact with my H. Bizarre.

And again, anything overt that irritates OW is likely to irritate H. I get the feeling she is somewhat sensitive about me -- but I'm guessing from a very few hints. He has a public role, and she is pretty much a liability in that sphere, I was more of an asset, or at least tried to be. While I'd love to do some mischief-making, I could wind up getting blamed. Best to stay out of the blast zone, and let them do this all to themselves. For too long, I was the imaginary obstacle they had to get around. Now let them see what it's like with me out of the picture, except that I refuse to drop dead or even hide for them. They've created an awkward situation -- let them wallow like pigs in it.

Nonetheless, while H is getting uncomfortable with something -- me with another man? did he think I'd take the veil and enter a convent? -- it seems like there ought to be a way to move things forward, in one direction or another -- but I don't know what that is.

<small>[ July 06, 2003, 01:23 AM: Message edited by: A.M.Martin ]</small>

AM: Don't know. They seem to be gradually accepting it as a fait accompli -- at least to my eyes. According to friend who was over tonight, most people find it a bit weird, but think he must see something in her we don't. People cut him an enormous amount of slack.

Orchid: Take the flip side of this one. If you were in their shoes saying the same wouldn't you probably mean it as a compliment to the BS? I even tried to give the OP the benefit of the doubt in the looks dept and the WS was the one that kept telling me she was 'not pretty'. Me? He would tell me I was pretty.....so I realized the A was not about looks. LOL!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

AM:But except for the friend tonight, who is a close friend, I don't solicit mutual friends' opinions, as it puts them in an awkward position as spies. Moreover, I'm not likely to hear the truth, but something tailored for my ears. Moreover, it could get back to H or OW that I am seeking info, which would weaken my own position.

Orchid: My support came from many places. While I was afraid to tell those around me (friends, neighbors, school, work, relatives, etc.), the reaction was not always one of shock. A few took me aside and gave me support I never imagined.

I did not tell everything to everyone. I did ask whoever I told that one of the conditions of telling them was 1st to get their assurance that they would respect my decision and in turn I would hear them out.

AM:I don't feel daring at all -- just kind of helpless. Going out, having a good time, and avoiding eye contact with my H. Bizarre.

Orchid: Well I thought you were. Modesty is ok. Glad you are able to go out and have a good times despite all this mess. Your doing this will help your recovery be easier for you. Not easy just easier.

take care,
L.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by A.M.Martin:
<strong> ... He has a public role, and she is pretty much a liability in that sphere, I was more of an asset, or at least tried to be. ...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do you need someone to leak the info to his opponent or press ?. Sometime puting the heat on WS to see the cost of his A ... specially if he valued his position more than both of you, BW or OW <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> .

-rh-

Absolutely counterproductive, in this case. It couldn't be much more public than it already is.

Well, the world is full of surprises!

I did see H this morning. As I brushed by him (actually touching his clothes -- shivers!) he returned my murmured greeting with an unusually brusque hello.

Later he gave a smacker to OW while I was within eyeshot. What a shocker! I'd never have guessed that they did THAT before! I thought they just held hands at night! They did a togetherness routine. H stared at me a couple of times. Once I met his gaze and he seemed to blanch. Are his feelings hurt, or something? Heavens! All he did was have an A, dump his family, move in with a bizarre OW and HIS feelings are hurt!

Oh well, this is idiotic. OW was glomming on to someone as unbalanced as herself, talking for several hours. That will be fun to watch as it plays out. H doesn't like weird people, except for OW.

I must get back to work. This is too bizarre. Has a anyone seen something this weird?

<small>[ July 06, 2003, 04:42 PM: Message edited by: A.M.Martin ]</small>

A.M.Martin,

In this stage ... you could hang in there for long time. It is like watching the soap opera or telenovelas <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> except your part is not due yet. Sit back, relax & grap a bag of chip & a bowl of Salsa ... and watch them <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> .

-rh-

Perhaps I should have given a big smacker to OW. That would have blown her away!

Hi AM,

Awhhh.. don't waste your energy smackin' an OW. They probably would like it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I just sent you an e-mail. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

take care,
L.

Let’s see, he is all bent out of shape because you have ignored him and he’s seen you with other men. She is giving him a hard time about being ‘loyal’ to her. So he put on a show that he thinks got him two points… he got at you and he showed his ‘loyalty’ to her. But in the end.. it seems he is not very comfortable in his own skin. Gee is paradise starting to fall apart?

I agree about watching the show… be amused. I would not be surprised if the OW’s little world crumbled around her fairly soon. You don’t have to smack her.. karma will take care of that. All you have to do is be the best and most classy person you can be.

Remember that the best revenge is living well.

<small>[ July 07, 2003, 01:25 AM: Message edited by: Zorweb ]</small>

Gee, Zorweb, you really think that's the sitch? I can't read it, frankly. Just came back from gala event -- he and OW were relatively lovey-dovey. I danced with a number of other men. Every time OW danced with another man (only 2ce, by my count), he looked all anxious and stood at the edge of the floor -- or was he looking for a partner for himself? Or was that my imagination? Couldn't be jealousy, because one of the two men was gay. My glasses broke early in the evening. I was blind. But wearing a great red dress.

For all I know, she's threatening to cut him off and he's all nervous about that. And the "loyalty" is nervousness. Maybe he's promised to marry her, finally...which, of course, would be bigamy. He acknowledged me...I know, because it was close enough so that I could see it. But what else happened? Who knows.

I was very occupied with other things -- champagne, and friends, and my glasses. Can't read the situation very well. Maybe I'm completely out of my mind.

No, the "smacker" was a big, friendly social kiss. But in this case, I don't think I could control my gag instinct. She really is a strange person.

<small>[ July 07, 2003, 11:15 AM: Message edited by: A.M.Martin ]</small>

From what you have said, I do think that you are getting to him… That you hang out in the same places he and OW do makes it hard for him to keep his little fantasy.

Only time will tell about their relationship. I do know that looking from the outside in, it's easy to think that all is just great with them. But do remember that their relationship is founded on very shaky grounds and has a very small chance (about 3%) of going on for much longer. With odds like that, and what you have said, I’d bet against them.

JMHO

Zorweb -- I want to ask you a few questions, but today is nutty -- I'll write a little later. Please stay tuned!

I've made it a personal goal not to retreat one step from social life, public functions, etc. So most of the time when H is out there doing his thing -- I'm there, too, doing mine. I continue to be friendly, smile, greet people, dress smashingly (or at least brightly!) OW is, by nature, reclusive, and has been seen to crack a smile or two, but mostly she lurks about in the shadows. She has few friends. A male friend of mine says she has gone from being widely disliked and ignored member in our community to becoming the most hated member of it. This may or may not be true. People will tell you what they think you want to hear.

The friends I talk to think I am going insane when I talk about the weird mind-trip stuff. Like yesterday morning after social gathering, when I was greeting an out-of-town friend who hadn't heard of our breakup. H came out and seemed to be heading towards us, then seemed to act oddly, then went about 15 feet away to a water cooler. Then OW came out, and sat on a nearby bench. So there we were -- in a triangle -- as I talked to the friend uncomfortably. I think it's strange, but others can attribute it to coincidence. If it wasn't, what was the point of it? What do either of them gain from this behavior?

Or at a meeting in recent weeks, where OW had a near-fainting spell about 20 seconds after I spoke.

I really don't have any idea what's going on with them, but I follow the iceberg theory. If someone behaves a little oddly in public, as OW does, people usually tell themselves, "Well, maybe she's better at home." Or "Maybe he will even her out." The iceberg theory is that the public behavior is just the tip of an iceberg. It invariably is WORSE when you know the person up close. No matter what the manifestation. Similarly, I know that H has a lot of emotional problems, depressive, and can be a really hard, insensitive man. He's high maintenance. So is she. He taxed the utmost of my strength and patience, and I'm a tough cookie who truly loves him.

So, no, Zorweb, I wouldn't give this a 3 percent chance of succeeding. And I think unless it goes up in an atomic blast, there isn't a chance that thick-headed H will learn anything. The atomic blast could take awhile to occur, but I think the situation has the makings of a mushroom cloud. She's not terribly well-joined-up, and he has problems he's not facing.

H hasn't communicated with me at all -- not even email -- in two weeks. It's easy to think things are going swimmingly with them, and sometimes I find it helpful to think that.

H is the stonewall type -- won't let on what he's thinking, feeling, etc. But there were so many mind games going on during the pre-moving-out period, I can't believe they've stopped.

Any advice, Zorweb -- or anyone? I've got my popcorn and a front-row seat. But I've been waiting for Act II for a long, long time now.