Iam new to this board. I stumbled into this site yesterday and had read a lot of interesting posts posted by many betrayed spouses as well as wayward spouses.

Until recently I had several misconceptions about how affairs happen. Although most of them have been cleared I still haven't got any answers for some of my questions.
So I thought of posting my questions here. First of all my idea about marriage is that it comprises of romantic feelings for your spouse along with the care and affection you bestow upon them.

I just want to know whether a WS tend to misplace his/her care & affection greatly towards the OP after he/she has already misplaced the romantic feelings?
I believe that this usually does not happen as it takes only an extremely self centred ,cruel individual to misplace his/her care towards the OP without considering all those years of care that had been received by him/her from the BS.

So is there a possible existence of greater care towards the BS sans the romantic feelings, in an infidelity affected marriage. But of course, there is a common phrase many wayward spouses used to say "I love you,but Iam not in love with you". How true is this?

And moreover, if this is true do wayward spouses have a complete realisation of this during the course of their affair ?or do they just realise that while the affair ends and started to work on their marriages?

Does the betrayed spouse care to know about this before forgiving the WS. Does he/she expect any kind of assurance for this?

Any kind of reply would be appreciated.
Thank you

P.S: I have never been affected by any kind of infidelity.I am just curious about the subject

Keep in mind that not all affairs are alike, and therefore not all WS's will share all of the same characteristics. Affairs can be conflict avoidance affairs, intimacy avoidance affairs, exit affairs, etc.

In the cases where there are feelings of love that the WS may still have towards the BS (while not being 'in love' with him/her), I think a lot of it has to do with shared history. This kind of WS, has the potential of falling back in love with the BS if s/he commits to end all contact with the OP forever, and commits to follow a marital recovery plan that includes counseling with a pro-marriage oriented professional like Steve Harley or Penny Tupy, as well as following the principles embodied in the four rules for a succesful marriage.

Does a BS care about this? initially the pain is so great (trust me it is horrible) that your emotions are all over the place, and the last thing a BS beleives is that the WS still loves the BS when all the evidence tells him/her quite the contrary. But once the BS starts to regain some control over his/her emotions, s/he realizes that there is still love for the WS, and if the WS also shows love and remorse, then the BS may start to beleive that there is still love in the WS's heart for the BS afteall.

But every case and every affair is different so its best to avoid pigeonholing all WS and BS into one size fits all box.

<small>[ July 13, 2003, 04:00 PM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

Cur: .....I just want to know whether a WS tend to misplace his/her care & affection greatly towards the OP after he/she has already misplaced the romantic feelings

Orchid: Welcome to MB. This is a place to learn and post whether it is a vent or a thought.

As for your question: Yes. When a WS for whatever reason feels the need to get their EN (emotional needs) satisfied outside of the M arrangement, then an A is inevitable for many it is just a matter of not who (throws out that soul-mate theory) but when.

Many BS see strange changes in their mate. I liken it to the mate morphing into a WS but the BS is not aware that the H or W title has been changed and that now their mate is the Ws and they are the BS. Quite a shock and therein begins the confusion, rush of emotions, etc.

Cur:I believe that this usually does not happen as it takes only an extremely self centred ,cruel individual to misplace his/her care towards the OP without considering all those years of care that had been received by him/her from the BS

Orchid: It is a very very selfish attitude that is allowed to fester in the heart of the WS. In most cases, the BS is not fully aware their family is being robbed, pillaged and raped until d/d. For most at this time lots of time and effort has been put in by the WS and often the OP to strengthen the A at the expense of the BS, friends, family, work,etc. A common WS statement is: "it's not about you or the OP, it's about me." Hurtful and it does have some truth.... The truth is that it is about the WS but before that is admitted, often the BS has been the brunt of the very cruel and harsh slander campagin.

Cur:So is there a possible existence of greater care towards the BS sans the romantic feelings, in an infidelity affected marriage. But of course, there is a common phrase many wayward spouses used to say "I love you,but Iam not in love with you". How true is this?

Orchid: Anything is possible. The fix does not always exist with the BS. Only part of the fix exists with the BS and this will vary from situation to sitatuion. The majority of the fix needs to come from the very one who created the situation. Often that person (ws) is not willing to put forth that effort. At least not according to the BS' timeschedule.

Many a WS have a need to control when in fact they are very much out of control.

As for that ILY but don't LY statement, well this is also just another prime example of the WS state of confusion.

Cur:And moreover, if this is true do wayward spouses have a complete realisation of this during the course of their affair ?or do they just realise that while the affair ends and started to work on their marriages?

Orchid: No. You are asking that the WS act in a logical manner with this devastating problem the WS caused. Easy for an outsider to assume, not easy for the Ws to actually do. Why? Because the WS is in what we term here, THE FOG.
In this fog like state, the truth and every sense of reason is distorted and appears to be destroyed. Keep reading you will see this over and over again. Same stuff, different names/times and places.

When a WS is willing to admit they are out of control, acknowledge their mistake, willing to work out on a reasonable solution.....then and only then can the WS see the opportunity to recover. Where the BS is at that time, how long it takes to the WS to get there will vary and not always be in sync.

Cur:Does the betrayed spouse care to know about this before forgiving the WS. Does he/she expect any kind of assurance for this?

Orchid: Often the WS attempts to come back while still retaining control over the BS. WS often expect the BS to be the one to make things right without the WS putting in their fair share.

Does that make sense? No. But that is reality. More fogtalk and in those cases, the WS is really not ready to come back. Some WS know what to say to get to where they want to be, when the motives are questioned by the BS, then if the WS is not really ready to come back, the vicious cycle of abuse can start all over again. Hence another d/d.


Cur:Any kind of reply would be appreciated.
Thank you

Orchid: No problem. Can you please share why you came or what brought you here? There are a few that post here but are not personally involved with any A junk, for those that have the correct perspective, they are welcomed but for most, unless you have actually walked in our shoes, it is hard to understand.

Cur:P.S: I have never been affected by any kind of infidelity.I am just curious about the subject

Orchid: Just a thought: I hope you never have to live through what you see and read here. On the other hand recall the addage: Curiosity killed the cat!

take care,
L.

Thanks for responding, TMCM & Orchid,

Orchid,
You asked: Can you please share why you came or what brought you here?

I had always thought affairs were unforgivable, but that attitude has slowly changed as I grew older. I have my own criteria for forgiving an affair. I had a curiosity to know if there is anything common with the criteria that other people expect (irrespective of whether they had been affected or not). That's why Iam here. Thank you once again for your concern.

TMCM,

You said: In the cases where there are feelings of love that the WS may still have towards the BS (while not being 'in love' with him/her), I think a lot of it has to do with shared history. This kind of WS, has the potential of falling back in love with the BS

Well...I understand that. Just wanted to know whether the WS cares greatly for the BS(than the OP, although there are no romantic feelings) and is that why they make the decision of staying? There are some WSs who compare the affair to a romance novel type of love, but stay in their marriage for various reasons such as 'not wanting to break the family'.Do they have a realisation all along, that they cared more for the BS than the OP? If not, when do they ever realise that?

Curious,
i want to post a reply on this thread so badly, from the perspective of a BS. first, i am going to have to gather my thoughts and get myself in a more "thinking" than "feeling" mode.
"just the facts, ma'am"
but, alot of the "facts" are "feelings", on my part. as far as my H is concerned, i will have to guess.
lemme think a while and i will be back.

this is totally from my perspective as a BS:

Originally posted by curious cat:

...First of all my idea about marriage is that it comprises of romantic feelings for your spouse along with the care and affection you bestow upon them.

as well as how an individual feels about the covenant they made to their spouce on the day they were married.

I just want to know whether a WS tend to misplace his/her care & affection greatly towards the OP after he/she has already misplaced the romantic feelings?
I believe that this usually does not happen as it takes only an extremely self centred ,cruel individual to misplace his/her care towards the OP without considering all those years of care that had been received by him/her from the BS.
not always, as in the case of my H (the WS), there was a true "sickness" of the soul. his self esteem was very low. he had and emptiness and dire need for validation which he, for reasons still unknown to me, chose not to look with in his marriage for. my H had started the marriage on a FOG. a FOG that he chose to be in. he unfortunately tripped over women that, for their cruel and selfish reasons (two were "friends" of mine and one was his x-w), stroked his "sick" soul and then one thing led to another. and, voila....

So is there a possible existence of greater care towards the BS sans the romantic feelings, in an infidelity affected marriage. But of course, there is a common phrase many wayward spouses used to say "I love you,but Iam not in love with you". How true is this?

oh, my H said he loved me (dryly and once in a blue moon), but i always got the sense it was more the way a person "loves" thier children's school teacher or the maid (more of "i love what you are doing to make my responcibilities less and more easy for me to handle). but, i do know tha there was a lot of slander against me at the time of the affair. alot of it did come back to me in one wy or another. is that "love" of any kind?

And moreover, if this is true do wayward spouses have a complete realisation of this during the course of their affair ?or do they just realise that while the affair ends and started to work on their marriages?

during an affair the WS has no realisations of reality. and often times, not initially after the affair has ended. there is a period of denial. the ever popular and often-despised-by-the-BS FOG. otherwise, how could they possibly "condone" their actions. the FOG enables them to believe that the affair is justified.

Does the betrayed spouse care to know about this before forgiving the WS. Does he/she expect any kind of assurance for this?

After so much FOG and slandering of the BS, i am sure that the WS would actually have to fall in love again.

before forgiving the WS, i would prefer to have a renewal of committement from the WS. I would then want a full confession, responcibility owned and taken. I would want the acknowledgement that the life of a BS is a living h*ll. I would want apologies. i would want the understanding that the WS is responcible for rebuilding trust. I would want to talk about stratagies to have the past no repeat it's self. I would want honesty. sometimes, it feels as though all i want is a miracle. but, i believe and i love my H more than he could ever imagine.

P.S: I have never been affected by any kind of infidelity.I am just curious about the subject

may you never know this horrific pain.

i would be curious as to how a WS would answer your questions.