Oh, {{{{{{{{{{{{Shugah!}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

I do not know what to say to you. I am so sorry about all this crap you're having to live through. No one deserves to be treated like this.

I will say one thing. Yes, I know you are filing for divorce, but to me, your WH sounds like he's reading from the script...fog-speak!

I know you don't consider that you were "good" at Plan B. Nobody wants to be good at it. We want to be in contact with our spouses, particularly if you have a personality like mine: I am a take-charge gal and want to MAKE THINGS HAPPEN! But Plan B, if we belive the program (and we have to believe!) is succesful many, many times.

Do it. Go to Plan B. Protect yourself from any further emotional abuse. Post here and on my Plan B thread.

We care about you..so very much!

ISG

Thanks IS, you are always so supportive!
I am going to do my best at a Plan B. I can't keep letting him get to me this way.
I too want to make it happen, and I know that there is nothing I can do, and that can be frustrating!!
I must continue moving forward.
WH will eventually crash and burn, I am sure of that, it just may take a while, and I've got some living to do in the meantime!
Hey, I'm climbing another mountain, a bigger one this time (6 hr. climb), in 3 weeks. I should burn off some frustration getting in shape!!

Dear shugah,

Plan B sounds safer for you. It should provide relief from his anger. See his anger is about him. Not you and the kids. Practice in front of the mirror so that when he gets angry, you will be trained to pull away. He will soon realize that if he wants to have dialogue with you, he'd better control his temper and tongue. You don't have to put up with that nonsense.

Don't enable his anger. Check out the book: Love must be tough by Dr James Dobson.

Let him know that when he speaks to you in the tone and way he speaks to his friends, that then you may 'consider' hearing what he has to say. Then, don't say much more.

L.

<small>[ September 09, 2003, 11:03 PM: Message edited by: Orchid ]</small>

Doesn't a protective order also include telephone contact? I'd let the police take care of him and his first violation of a court order!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Actually, this P.Order, prohibits direct contact only, the clerk specifically told me that phone contact was ok.
I'm interested in seeing how it all plays out at the hearing though, if it will be voided or made more specific.
Yes, Orchid, I think I should go back to Plan B.
It's too hard on me to hear the things he has to say, I forget to chalk them up as Fog and take them all to heart as if what he says is believable. "I'm not coming back, so how do we move on from here" really got to me. I got thinking, well if he's really not, then I guess I make it as easy as possible on everyone (which is my caretaker speaking.)
But then I realize, NO, he really still wants to be a cake-eater! He wants me to go out of my way to make visiting the kids easier for him, when it should be the other way around. And the kids are involved in sports, etc., why should they miss out. Let Dad come here to watch and visit.
I'm still also trying to avoid them having to meet OW. As I said to WH last night, stop trying to jam her down their throats and accept this on your time line! You chose her, they didn't.
I shouldn't even try to reason with him, he doesn't hear it anyways. After 8 months, you'd think I'd remember that!

Shugah,

Believe me, IT'S FOG!!

My H said the same things: "Face it, it's all over. I don't love you anymore." He now says it was anger. The anger, he says, relieved him of his guilt. He was an angry man from December to February!!!! He always tried to trigger me and the kids into doing stuff to justify his anger.

Today, he can't get enough of me. We have been talking all day, just chit-chatting on the phone.

Give PLAN B a chance! I also pulled out James Dobson and actually quoted him word for word to my WH. Something to the effect of, "if you want to be free from me, fine. I'll just try my best to go on with my life. I don't deserve to be treated like this." In my heart, I was wanting to beg him to come back but I felt the Dobson approach was my best offense (as MM mignt say).

Take care.

Shugah -

Please, for your own health, get back in Plan B and get off the rollercoaster! It's hard to do with children, I'm sure, but try to do what Orchid said, do not engage him in conversation unless he speaks to you with civility. And then only about the children - what, when, where, how long, etc. I'm wondering, do you feel better, sleep better, when you are NOT in contact with your WH? For me, there is no way I will have anything to do with my WH until he is done with his A. It made me angry, sick to my stomach, so out of balance when WH said his fog-talk crap to me. I will not go back there! Plan B means safety for me. I can imagine some of what WH is doing, but it's not in my face. Think back Shugah, are you safer in Plan B?

Also, think about what your interactions with your WH are giving him and OW - a common enemy - you - on a silver platter. They have so much to talk about after one of these incidents, and it brings them closer for awhile. I know you're filing for Dv to protect yourself financially, but you also say that you know your WH will crash and burn. From what we've all read here, the BS staying out of the way allows the WS to crash and burn sooner rather than later.

Shugah, I hope you don't think this is a 2x4, it most certainly is not, I just hate to see you get hurt by interacting with your WH. Please, protect yourself. Go back to Plan B.

Lablady

Shugah -

Please, for your own health, get back in Plan B and get off the rollercoaster! It's hard to do with children, I'm sure, but try to do what Orchid said, do not engage him in conversation unless he speaks to you with civility. And then only about the children - what, when, where, how long, etc. I'm wondering, do you feel better, sleep better, when you are NOT in contact with your WH? For me, there is no way I will have anything to do with my WH until he is done with his A. It made me angry, sick to my stomach, so out of balance when WH said his fog-talk crap to me. I will not go back there! Plan B means safety for me. I can imagine some of what WH is doing, but it's not in my face. Think back Shugah, are you safer in Plan B?

Also, think about what your interactions with your WH are giving him and OW - a common enemy - you - on a silver platter. They have so much to talk about after one of these incidents, and it brings them closer for awhile. I know you're filing for Dv to protect yourself financially, but you also say that you know your WH will crash and burn. From what we've all read here, the BS staying out of the way allows the WS to crash and burn sooner rather than later.

Shugah, I hope you don't think this is a 2x4, it most certainly is not, I just hate to see you get hurt by interacting with your WH. Please, protect yourself. Go back to Plan B.

Lablady

Yes! I agree with LabLady. I was going to post and say the same thing. I heard it from the horse's mouth. Setting you up to LB gives them something to focus on other than the mess they have created and themselves. It enables the A.

Shugah, a little dictaphone, a package of tapes, and an attachment to plug into your phone would allow you to record his abuse tirades. shouldn't cost you more than $40 total, and at that point, you can choose to quietly let him know that your next step is harrassment charges, or you can just do it. the tape recording could also prove handy in court proceedings and pre-court negotiations.

You are strong enough that you no longer need to cower in fear at his immenseness! He's an itty-bitty man - a mouse who tries to roar. Wah Wah! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I certainly agree with you ladies!
I know that even though it is hard to be in Plan B, it is better for me.
But something weird is beginning to happen. I noticed yesterday, that even though WH pushed the right buttons, I got angry, crying, upset, I recovered much quicker than usual!
Am I losing my love for him?. I think yes. Am I just getting conditioned to it? Maybe.
I paced and cried for maybe a 1/2 hr. But I the rest of my evening was fine, I even slept the night without my usual tyl.PM!
PLan B it is! If there is anything left of my love for WH, I'b best hold onto it...who knows what could happen!

Actually, I borrowed a tape recorder months ago, just never did get the little phone attachment.
Maybe it's time, at least have it handy. Although I have no intention of letting him rope me in like that again!(I've said that before!!)
Thanks for the feedback you guys, it keeps me going.
Hey Mimi, hope all is well in recovery land!

Shugah,

I was going to refer you to Mimi's thread where she mentioned that her FWH had no memory of earlier confrontations while deep in Fogland.

But then...Mimi appeared! In the early days of recovery and she's still here for all of us. You are something else, Mimi!

The more I read the more I am fascinated by the effects of the A on the WS and the addictive qualities the A provides.

FOG, FOG, FOG. It is all scripted. Just read anywhere here.

Shug, protect yourself, sweetie, from this abuse. Yes you sleep better. It may not necessarily mean you are losing love for him, rather that you are building a protective wall around your heart. I like to think of it as a shelter where we abused WS's have to go live for a while, hoping that our abusers will be reformed.

Problems with the Mortgage Bank. On thurs. I recieved a call saying that as of fri., there would be 3 payments due!
I called WH and asked if he had sent any payments, and told him what I knew. He wasn't very happy that I had called, started off angry.
Anyways he said he hadn't been paid yet this week, I asked what happened with the mortgage payment that he "refused" to leave with me 2 weeks ago, he said "I couldn't very well leave it while I was being escorted away by the police"
EXCUSES, I said, you have children to support, I'm sure OW would have plenty to say if her H was (and probably is)was playing these games with her children's welfare.
HE said, OW hates your guts too, and she doesn't want me to sent you a penny either!
Great, WH, you are officially a dead-beat Dad.
I know LB's everywhere, but I was pretty worked up about possibly losing the house.
ANyways, I did some fast maneuvering and was able to get help with 2 payments. THen WH called later that night, much calmer(familiar?), and said he would be sending a payment fri. or monday to the bank.
I just said, OK, that's good, bye. He said see ya friday (the hearing).
I"ve got a long letter written to him, but I'm thinking I won't send it. He doesn't hear it anyways, probably doesn't even read it. I'll stick to a true Plan B as much as I can. It's the only way to save myself from this madness!
D just said "it's a beautiful day for a walk"!!
She's a peach, so I guess it's off for a walk!!

Shugah,

Can you email me? Got something to tell you.

ISGIRL123@hotmail.com

Thanks.

Just a quick question, looking for your thoughts.

S called WH last night (a rare event), to discuss $ owed S, they talked 15 min. or so (unbelievable), about last weeks concert, football...

WH asked "What's Mom doing?". I had just gone upstairs to put D to bed.

My question is:
From a man who "wants nothing to do with me", why would he even care what I'm doing, why does he ask? Habit? I can't believe he actually cares, so why?

Any thoughts?
You realize, it's been a long time with little real communication(besides the Drama crap) with WH, so I can't help but focus on the little things that come up.

Also, given all that has happened over 8 months,
WH really has dug himself a big ugly hole, even if he wanted to climb out, how would he ever think that he could return? Facing family, friends and community after all of this has to be monumental!
I mean, reading Mimi's post about Steve's comment about WS's needing a plan to do it, how do WS's ever realize that it can be done, if in fact we cannot "educate" them.
Here at MB we all "know" how it works, how on earth does the WS realize that there is hope....
No wonder they just keeping digging deeper into that pit of despair, despondency, anger, I see it in my WH.
Thoughts?

Shugah -- Jump into my post about this question and throw in your 2 cents, please.

So how are ya? Just checking in . Anything going on ? How is being dark going ?

Well hope all is calm , most of all thats important .

Today was the Hearing on the Protection from Abuse Order.
It went well. Although I have probably kissed my M goodbye and quite frankly I believe I have lost most of my remaining love for WH, and see no way this could turn around.
I had a lawyer at the proceeedings, WH chose to represent himself, big mistake! HE did not realize that I was going to get support and visitation established through this process! I believe he thought it was going to be a quick dismissal type hearing. THe disturbing thing is that he showed up with our 18 yr. old son! Halfway through the hearing, during a recess, S told me he wanted nothing more to do with me and left!
The judge was someone that my WH knew from the boys younger sports days, he had coached with him, talked at games etc, the judge was upfront with that and gave us the opportunity to have the case heard by another judge at a later date.
We chose to proceed, I figured good, let him see the "obvious" difference in The new WH from when he was a great dad and husband! It didn't take long for WH to show his new true colors, from the moment he first opened his mouth he began digging himself a hole.
The affair was brought to light, WH was questioned about his expenses, gift buying for OW, etc. WH said his "entertainment" expenses included, dinner, movies, going out on a friday night drinking might cost $50., his gifts have included $250 jewelry, bottles of wine, "negligee", very smugly admitted by WH! I was crying at this point! My lawyer asked him at this point if he was aware that his family was on foodstamps! So I am sure WH made a huge dirtbag impression on the judge by this time.
Long story short, the judgement came down heavily in my favor, weekly child support AND spousal support directly out of WH's paycheck, WH must continue to pay mortgages, property taxes and my lawyers fees!! Visitation must take place only in our state, so he cant take them to his place AND OW cannot be around the children!!!!!!
The only thing not in my favor was that I do have to pickup the kids after visitation, if he takes them overnight to his brother's home, the only place he really has to take them instate. But that's ok, because I don't see it happening often. They are not that close, I talk to BIL more than WH. So I see visitation continuing as day visits mostly.
The hearing was over 5 hrs! I was completely exhausted when i got home. Very emotional day, and nervewracking being on the stand, a first for me. I did very well by the way. On the other hand, WH continually interupted with stupid comments and had to be addressed by the judge, made stupid objections, laughed at my description of being Kicked in the behind, etc. and was constantly confused as to what had already been agreed to for items, which is what dragged out the hearing.
Seeing WH like this was very disturbing and painful. Where is the guy that was so loveable and likable by everyone? He is truly not the same person and it is hard for me to face that.I cannot love someone like this. How could I ever go back after all of this. I am sure he would never come back anyways.
So D is probably next, WH will have more reality to face at that point in terms of supporting his family. He actually commented, "I am trying to start a new life", in response to his financial obligations. Gee, too bad, me and the kids are trying to hold on to ours!
Someday, I hope S grows up some, and will realize that I was always there for him and that what his Dad has done is WRONG, and that I had to do what I did for his younger siblings.
I'm ok, sad and tired, but ok.