Shugah,

Good to hear from you. Wow, you certainly had a looong day.

Your H's actions must have thrown that judge for a whooper and distorted his senses for a while. See how contagious the fog can be? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

At least finances are outlined, now to get him to abide by it. I am sure you are getting prepared. It is a wise move.

take care,
L.

I am so sorry , well you had to do this to protect your family and yourself .

As far as it being over (the M) well no one can predict the future . This may be the reality check he needs to start coming out of FOG .

Some need to hit rock bottom . And hes getting there fast , as ORCHID would say SPIRALING DOWN !

All you need to do now is PLAN B for you !

Yes I am sure for the next couple of weeks he will be pissed off and him and OW will do nothing but bash you and do the OH POOR BABY THING for him .

BUT after awhile I am sure she will get sick and tired of the drama also , Rember OW is in FOG also so she may be having an awaking also .

LIfe is not going to be so fun any more with no MONEY and Visitation that she can't be apert of .

There will be and probbly is already some major REALLITY coming in to there FANTASY life .

You did great and are a wonderful MOM and WOMEN .

STAY STRONG , do not feel bad for anything you have done , look at the strenght it took to do it .

If he does D , well you know that you are strong enough and will only get stronger to be able to live your life with your head held high .

You are and where a faithful wife and great mom for those things alone you should have no regrets .

He will bare the berdone of guilt forever .

Your Son well give him time , he has some growing up to do and some BOYS are what they call late blommers , they are in a FOG of there own .
Wanting to be a MAN and yet they are still scared to grow up .

Be well !

Talked with oldest S today. He has significant anger over the hearing. I am so hurt and angry that WH would put S in the middle like that. S is incredibly angry at my friend who testified regarding angry phone calls from WH. I tried to explain that she was telling the truth, and he insisted she twisted the truth because she is doing to WH what she wishes she did to her WH. He is very angry and said some threatening things about her. I'm not sure how I should react to this. WH would be no help, he probably feels the same way.
There seems to be no one that S respects enough right now that could talk to him. He is also angry with my family, his uncles. I'm wondering if maybe one of WH's brothers or family members could talk to him, so that he might realize that even WH's family sees that what he's done is wrong.
Or should I just let it go for now. Let him simmer down, grow up. Sort of Plan B him. He was using some pretty nasty language. F#*in C*#t, horrible to use in reference to me and friend!!
I am more sad and hurt at the loss of S right now than of WH. But there is really nothing I can do for either of them, I know that.
I am moving on, and I feel better already since the Hearing. I don't want WH, I think he is too far gone.
What a waste, what has happened to my once wonderful little family? Was I living in fantasy world myself?
I am going to enjoy my life with my other children, they deserve a great life and a happy mom. I'm already on my way....

Had a quick conversation with WH. I was led to believe there may be some confusion over who's weekend with the kids this was and I wanted him to know that I had not heard from him and we have plans for the weekend. I was nervous about leaving D at Day Care tomorrow if WH was coming to town while me and S were gone already for our Hiking trip. I have made arrangements for D to get picked up by sister at Day Care.
Anyways.
Long story short, he was trying to get a car to come up, his apparantly has been repossessed.
I told him that his weekend is next weekend and he says " I don't want them then". "I want the same rotation as OW"
I said, "I'm sorry, it doesn't work that way, these were the weekends given to you in court and that's what works best for me"
He says' "fine, I won't see the kids then"
So basically he is saying he won't give up his weekend with OW to see his kids.???
And then he says, "why can't you do what's best for the kids"
I say, "this has more to do with what's best for WH, and you should've thought about what's best for the kids before your A, because NONE of this is what's best for the kids!"
He proceeds to tell me that he won't give me a nickle until he gets the rotation he wants and that his car has been repoed so that means he will be fired from his job, so no one will have any money.
I didn't think quick enough to say, Have OW drive you, she doesn't work!
I ended the call.
He has to be a whits end by now. Wouldn't you think? When will this man hit bottom???
Not sure what this means as far as support. He may be just trying to push my buttons anyways.

(((((((((hugs)))))))))) Yes true with out a job he can't pay for support . SO if the courts get an ear ful of him saying it he can also be put in jail , also if he doesn't pay do to no job he goes in rears , then when he gets one he will pay more installments .

HIT bottom well let him have no job and OW support him . SHE will run quik .

I know all the above does not help you with money or the kids . Whats best for them , well a farther that WANTS to see them .

So do not change that rotation , let him go to court .

YOU can't fall for that about changing things cause its best for kids , don't let him do that to you , he is playing you to make it HAPPY time with OW . SHE can't be with him when he sees his kids so they want there weekends free with out eachohters kids , WOW they should have thought about how D can be so hard . NO alone time poor babys .

YOU stick this out and PLAN B your BUTT off , REALITY will set in there . LIFE is not all about his fun time he needs to grow up and his kids will be hurt but then they get older and realize he could have but choose not to . That is his cross to bare .

STAY STRONG and move foward you doing the right thing .

It's amazing to me how low a person's bottom can be.

"How low can you go?"

Dear Shugah,

Bottom is still a ways down. Until he has a major attitude adjustment, I'd say he is still floating on something (mostly hot air - LOL!!).

So until then, you'd better batten down for a rough ride. Get all your supplies and support in order. Hurricane WS is coming. Make sure when he enters your home, things don't disappear.

In his angry phase you will be held to blame even if he misses the pot! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

JMHO,
L.

Shugah,

How are you doing? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

L.

I'm OK.
Just got back from a couple of days of camping and hiking with 12 yr. old S and friends.
It was good to get away.
However, 16 yr. old S had a party while I was gone and the cops came to break it up(But MOM, I didn't tell anyone I was having a party, they just showed up, I was trying to kick them out!!)
There's a chance he could get kicked off the football team, there were 2 other players here also. We had talked about this before I left!!

Ahh, so much for stress relief.

My M is over, I know it. WH is just a complete idiot, I can never even imagine him returning to the person I knew.
I'm moving on. Already exploring my options for a new relationship. Well, no, not a relationship, I NEVER want that again! More like a PA. I just want to feel someones arms around me again. And yeah I want to be loved as much as the next person, but I'm being realistic about my situation. 44 yr. old, bankrupt, divorcee with 3 kids still at home. Come on!!!
I will never put myself in a relationship again, NEVER.
BUt I'm extremely attracted to this guy and he knows what I want, and he's in the same place. His W left him for an OM several years ago. Several failed relationships since.
I don't even care about the 2x4's.
I just want something for me for a change, something to help me turn a corner, move on, look forward.
I'm probably not ready, but I may never be.
Now I know what the start of an A feels like. I think about it all the time, which is a far lot better than thinking about WH and my failed marriage, lost dreams, etc.
So that's how I am.

Shugah:
I can't understand why our sons won't stop stressing us out. They have to know what we are going through, that we can't take anymore!!

Shugah and Mimi,

Your sons keep stressing you out because they are stressed out and don't know how to deal with the different emotions they are going through. Can you imagine what they feel after their whole worlds have been turned upside down? Nothing makes sense and they are hurting and acting on it.

I can say this because my x just got remarried saturday and my oldest who is 13 has been crying for the past 2 days, she is very upset and confused about her emotions, she can't even put them into words. That's where I step in and talk with her more and more and try to help her deal with them and just hug her.

X has the out look that he's happy and our daughter should get over it and move on. um hello who is the adult and parent? how selfish and inconsiderate can he be. Oh that's a dumb question since his wife is the OW <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Give your boy lots of love and patience. My other daughter has been acting out doing some really dumb things. She's gotten in trouble and I'm also having to help her too. I need some calgon can't you tell?

Big investigation underway at school regarding the party, because the kids are football players, soccer, cheerleaders, etc.
I work at the school, so I have had 3 meetings already this morning.
Last night, S was pretty angry, of course now that he's in the hot seat at school too! He punched 2 holes in my walls, saying things like" you don't trust me,(hello!), you don't believe me, everything I do for you around here" kindof defensive mode stuff.
I tried to get WH involved, what a waste of human flesh! "I don't know what you want me to do, I can't even come up there now(because of protection from Abuse Order)to see him"
Oh give me a break. You wouldn't even come up when I told you 12 yr. old was depressed and mentioning suicide for god's sake, and now you make it sound like it's my fault that you can't come to the rescue.
S wouldn't even talk to him on the phone.
WH says, you know this doesn't have to be as difficult as you have made it. Meaning, the Protection Order, support, lawyers fees, etc.
Come on, who kicked who here, who abandoned who here?
Then he says well, I've got to go, I have to pick up my laundry by 10!
Must be nice!
Actually though, everyone here at school is being very nice, they know my situation pretty much, and know that it hasn't been an easy year for any of us!
I am so tired today!

Shugah,
Did your son say that other people found out you were going to be away and just came over? Believe it or not that does happen and then the kid left home doesn't know how to handle it. Maybe you could tell him how much you do appreciate the things he does do around the house but that is not the issue. Have you talked to any of his friend's to see what happened?

Does S know how to fix walls? I would sure give him all the stuff he needs to figure it out....

I'm going through this with my girls. I understand the hurt and frustration they are feeling but they are still responsible for their actions. I'm trying to figure out how do I show I understand and yet correct the behavior. I don't want them thinking they can go around acting crazy... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

<small>[ September 30, 2003, 09:52 AM: Message edited by: Purpleroses ]</small>

Thanks P.Roses,
Trouble with S is that he gets angry very quickly, it is sometimes very hard to "discuss" anything!
His story is that, he was trying to turn people away, I am still trying to get the whole scoop.
I haven't talked to the police yet either, to get time frames, etc.
Also, S has always been my better teen yet a more skillful "liar", which makes it hard to accept all he says as the truth.
I have been trying to talk more with the kids about everything, and I will try to concentrate more on all the good they do. Because basically they are "great" kids!

Surpriseingly, WH called me at work today to follow up on S's party and school consequences.
Very civil conversation.
At the time there was no new info.
This eve. I called him to tell him of S's 2 game suspension and counseling requirement (my choice), the other choice was a 3 game suspension.
Anyways, another decent conversation regarding, S and the kids in general, visitation.
Not surprisingly, he doesn't think he'll be up this weekend, car excuses, blah blah.
I did tell him about S's reaction to WH's call this afternoon. "don't tell him anything, he ditched us all" WH says, well I guess I'll have to deal with his anger. I replied, you know, I'm the one dealing with it, the holes in the walls, the tantrums, etc. I also mentioned that this anger streak seems to be going around (WH & protection order). He didn't say anything to that.
WHat I should have said was, that as the adult, he needs to find away to show his S that he is still his father and that he cares about what is going on and that he can have some impact on his life and behavior.
Instead he uses the excuse of being away as the reason he can't help discipline!
It's been a hectic few days. S still sticking to his story that he wasn't drinking, but school officials feel there is enough evidence and testimony to the contrary. I don't know what to believe anymore, but I do know that S can be very convincing sometimes. He's accusing me of not being there for him, not believing him, "this is some family" type comments. Just trying to turn it around so the focus is on me and not him. Angry that "someone" is giving false testimony about who was drinking, etc. He's also mad that his uncle gave him a talking to on the phone. This same uncle is the one who got him a car two weeks ago, and told him that he would yank it from him if his grades dropped or his behaviour was out of line. Now S is mad about that too.
I'll be glad when this week is over!

((((((hug)))))))) Good move picking the 2 day with counseling . If I was you I would start family counseling as well .

NO MB talk here JMO and freindly feelings ok , so no flaming LOL

I know your supposed to be in PLAN B (N/C) , but I don't agree when there are kids involved . But I also don't think you will get any where with WH on any sarcastic talk and for the most part even talking nice and only in concern for kids is going to take awhile before you see any results.

AGIAN JMO , but I think I would have heart to heart with S , tell him yep this ain't much of a family right now so what are WE going to do about that ? Want to be an adult then starty acting like one .

WE are a family and family sticks together , so if life is alittle rough right now should we be fighting or working together.

Explain there farther loves them (yes I said, that) Tell them he may be going through some adult emotions right now and if they need him they should reach out to him .

I would make an effort to speak to WH , VERY calmly with no tone or sarcasim . EXPLAIN what you said, ubove just alittle kinder .

I am a parent and so are you, I know that you love your kids as much as I do (yes I said, that ) Our lives have been changed all of our lives and we need for our children to find a better way to approach things . I relize that I am still angrey at you and that does not help ,I will try to work on that . I would hope that you to could work on some things as well so I wouldn't feel as angry .

I would like for you to understand I will not use kids against you I want them to have a loving relationship with there DAD . But relationships are a 2 way street and they need to see that from you . Times are tough but we all need to grin and bare it , so maybe you can make arangments on having a better car or taking a bus to see your kids . Maybe calling every other night would be good as well . I don't know exactly but would like to work on a PLAN to have our children know BOTH there parent s are here for them .EVEN if you don't live with them that you will be there to lean on .

OK my book is done you get the picture , I don't know if anything helped . From my experiance this helped FWS start to come around , one he couldn't tell OW I was this witch . also he thought I gave up on us and was just getting the kids ready for the D (witch in a sense I was in case it happened ) so we could be freinds as there parents . AM I making sense ??

The next is if this starts to work and he gets it then go to more PLAN B style . If he then ever asking about you shut the convo down , I am good as long as my kids are ok . END .

I wrote a book I am sorry . AGAIN get into family counseling its good for you and the kids . If insurance is not there or money for it , look up state funded or youth centers , churchs ect.

BIG brother program for your son . It is possiable another older teen who maybe comes from a D family will be easier to open up to .

ALSO you mentioned your BI being close to you have the kids spend some outings with him as well .

Enough rambling just giving food for thought .BE WELL take care of you some where in all this .

YOU ARE IMPORTANT AND WORTHY OF HAPPINESS !!!!!

Quite a week around here! Some good, some bad.
S is acting out big time, since he got caught having the party. Very angry with me now that he is grounded. Then blames me for his being angry too! Very verbal, last night I let him yell and scream and swear and I just would not bite. He got even angrier because all I would say is "please leave my room, now". He wanted to leave in his car, he kept saying, "I'm leaving, OK" and I'd just reply, "no, it's not ok". He eventually went outside and sat in his car listening to music. At least he knew better than to leave.
WH called around 10:30 pm. Apparantly S had called him and left a message. I filled him in on the evening. WH says that he knows S wants his hunting guns back from my brother, and I said NO, I am not comfortable with guns in the house, until all of this anger has been dealt with! I think he saw my point. I said, I can take the verbal abuse, as hurtful as it may be, but it won't Kill me! I said, I have no $ for a gun cabinet to lock the guns in (something I have told him we NEEDED for a while) I said if S wants to hunt this season then he is going to have to agree to some counseling. That may be the only way I can possibly get him there.
Now the good for the week! Although some of you will not see it that way.
First you have to understand that I have accepted that my M is over, and I am quite frankly tired of fighting for it, dreaming for it, longing for it! All that is left is to get the D, but for certain reasons, some of which have to do with the recent support and visitation order, I have not filed yet. Right now WH is under court order not to have OW around the children and I don't want to risk losing that for now. And for whatever reason, $ maybe, WH has not filed either.
Anyways, I have been friendly with a guy at work for some months now. We've met several times over the past month for drinks and talk. His wife left him, several yrs. ago for an OM, and he has had a couple of uunsuccessful R's since, so lots to talk about. We both agree that we do not want a ERelationship, although we will not rule anything out. He is easy to talk to, very caring and thoughtful. And we are both lonely. AHHah, all the right ingrediants for an A!! Now I know how they start and how they feel! It did get physical and it was great(of course). After all this time, it was wonderful to just be close to someone again.
Please understand, my M is over. This was a huge step for me in accepting that it is over and there is nothing left.
For the first time in 10 months, I feel good about ME! I can dare to believe that there is life after all of this, that someone could still be attracted to me. I feel renewed strength to deal with the kids, financial challenges, etc. I was really beginning to seriously burnout on the whole scene. Yes, I have some mixed emotions, but overall, I feel like I can move forward, instead of living in the past, wondering "what if", feeling bad for continually losing hope and love for WH. I believe he is a lost cause as an H and a father.
THose of you have followed my story since Feb., know that I was "Learnin" and hopeful that this roller coaster ride would someday end. You know that I have tried but often failed at following the MB principles. I still believe in them and know that they can work for you!
Just not for me. It's over. But my life is just beginning. I will not introduce a relationship into my children's lives for a long time and perhaps never. They have so much yet to deal with. For now, WH is not permitted by court order to have OW around them. But eventually, it will have to happen.
I have hesitated to post about this, but because I have shared so much of my life with all of you, I felt compelled to be honest about what is going on despite the risk of so many 2x4's!! I can't be the first one who has chosen to take this step. And perhaps by being honest and sharing, we can better understand and process this new stage of our lives. One we never asked for, imagined or believed we could carry out.
It's scary in some ways. Change is scary sometimes, but in the long run it may be for the best.
I certainly do not endorse this as something to do while you wait for a WS to return from the Fog! I truly believe there is no hope for my M and that he would never have returned to us.
Thankyou for your understanding and please know that I still respect and want your support even if it is not what I want to hear!
Here goes, ADD REPLY....

Hi Shugah,

Just checking in...hope you know who I am.

I feel so much for you! Know that I am here, reading and feeling for you, always!

{{{{{shugah}}}}}}

*S*

Shugah,

No 2x4 here just a {{{{hug}}}}. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

L.

Thanks!! You guys are the best!