Today is 3rd anniversary of D-Day #1.
At the time, I was so devastated, but it was clear that WH was ashamed and regretful over his 3-week A. He never considered leaving us and was more concerned that I might ask him to leave.
We never sought the help we should have, but we seemed to recover anyways...so I thought.
Then D-Day #2, Dec. 21 of last year. New OW, and WH decided to leave us for her.
Today, although I am not real emotional, I am very restless...as if I'm anticipating or wanting something to happen...
It all seems surreal...I still can't believe it ever happened.
Does anyone else feel this way around D-Days. It's not so much an overwhelming emotional thing, just this restlessness and inability to concentrate....

YEP, get that way often , more often then I should ,and the feeling of waiting for something to happen , thats normal . D-Day was a time something HAPPENED ( to say the least LOL )
so waiting for something to happen is like a flash back your thinking well this was a bad day then so of corse it will be bad again .

Thats what putting it in the past is about. Now I know thats not gonna happen cause you didn't get all the answers and your not in a M recovery.

So hang in there , The personal recovery with this is so much more important right now and for the future.

You know I have always followed along and I give my 2 cents . I have been reading along and much to my suprise I really think it would be good for you to go alittle DARK .

You have showed the way home , You told him what needs to be done , you reinforced that you will do the work with him and that you feel the M can be saved .

Thats it you can't hold his hand and go through anymore emotional torture then you already been through. Please do not USE all the strenght you have worked so hard to get on making things easy for WH .

I know that feeling of it feeling that its right there its at the fingure tips and if you can just get him to reach out and grab your hand you will hold him up .

This needs to be his MOVE HIS ALONE ! He has to discover this alone , realize what it will cost him . I agree with you that he may think PLAN B was your way of being a BITC* , I thought that way to I really did.

But for the recovery and for yourself recovery it is better if it happens with no asking from you .

I think you did a great job the past couple of phone calls and the visit . Now thats it back way off . HE calls only to talk to kids NOT you do not get on . If you do say I can't talk I am not doing well and say goodnight . Do not be nasty , angry , just calm and low tone .

I know your tired , very tired , working and taking cae of everything a house and family you intended on having a partner to help with THEN BAM all the things that you wanted less the PARTNER ,,,, NOT FAIR NOT FAIR AT ALL !

WHAT I am also saying is you need to move foward , because if the fog is lifting there is so much more work ahead and you really need your strenght for that .

Please just worry about you and your kids . not worry just learn to be happy with that first . Make that the most forfilling part of your life .

BE well !

WELL SAID, 3!!!!! RIGHT ON TARGET!!!

Although my FWH calls me almost hourly at work, I remain anxious most of these days still. My D-DAY was December 31st last year. Just thinking about having to face that day again frigntens me indescribably.


Hang in There, Shugah!!

Has anyone recovered from financial ruin and infidelity at the same time? As a couple that is.
For those of you have followed my story, you know that financially we have hit bottom. This is a major stress and pride factor for both of us but more so for WH.
Lately, it is obvious that WH is frustrated and disturbed by the inevitable outcome of his A, both financially and emotionally.
I'm stressed to the max, but holding steady.
He continues to say that he will think about coming home. Even tonight, although our phone call could have been disastrous, it was headed that way, we both worked through our anger and frustration to the point of understanding and caring. This of course is a MAJOR change from just a few months ago.
He is upset that I won't let him be here for Christmas. But I said, it is just too painful for me, and if my Christmas is ruined so is the Kids'.
But back to my original question...
Does anyone feel that it would be possible for us to work on a recovery and pull ourselves out of the ashes financially?
I think he still wants me to proceed with the D, because financially it would actually stop the ship from sinking. I won't get into details as to how that would happen, but I'm pretty sure that is what he is thinking at this point.
Because I am hopeful that WH is coming out of the fog, I am beginning to realize the magnitude of the work ahead of us. And would the stress of our financial situation be too much for us to handle on top of rebuilding the M?
Has anyone been there and been successful?
Advice anyone?

Aw, forget it!
It's the usual 1 step forward, 2 back!
WH is angry because I didn't want him coming up here Christmas Day.
Then yesterday he called, (not knowing that I was going to be able to do some Christmas Shopping due to a generous donation, see other post), he was out shopping with OW and wanted to know if S would be interested in a particular item that he saw.
I went off on him, that I didn't want anything that was bought, subsidised, touched or wrapped by HER!! He was ticked off, telling me that "it's about the kids", and that I need to get over it, it's my problem.
I was even considering offering him Christmas Afternoon here with the kids and I would go out somewhere visiting...I told him that...
Now he's being all defensive and angry, even though I tried to explain why I would get so upset knowing that he's out shopping with OW for our kids, not even knowing if I had money to shop at all, and that I'd be doing it ALONE! And that it was this time last year that he didn't come home to go out shopping because he was with HER!
I was so hopeful last week, he was saying that he'd think about coming home and now he sounds like he hates me again.
I'm so tired of this.
I KNOW...GO DARK Again!!
I really felt that we were getting somewhere, but I guess not.

I think he was wanting to cake-eat, still not quite ready to give her up, but moving more in that direction.

Yes, it's time to GO DARK again. He will really miss you at Xmas.

In regards to finances, the A took a toll on ours too. Having an A involves personal ruin.

An important part of our Recovery has been building up again as a TEAM which is what marriage is supposed to be about anyways.

It seems hopeless, Shugah but it probably is not. My situation was really awful!!!!

Have faith and hope if you can.

Christmas is over, I'm so glad actually!!
It was ok, the kids seemed to have a good day, it was just very quiet, nothing to really to set it apart from any other day spent at home, except for the gifts in the morning.
Does any one else know what I'm talking about?
I put out the gifts alone the night before, and it was such a sad time, when it should have been exciting.
Oh, I put on the great show the next morning, excited about Santa's visit, "look he ate your cookies, and left a note!" stuff. But the rest of the day was a let down. I'm sure the kids felt it too and I feel so guilty about that. I can't help feeling that I should have done more to make it festive.
WH didn't come up Christmas day after all. Of course i feel guilty about that too. Originally I had told him no, I didn't want my Christmas ruined. Then when I changed my mind,he said he'd come up. Then Christmas Eve he called(didn't even talk to the kids)and said he wasn't coming, he didn't want to "ruin my christmas"!. He's coming up sat. instead to catch S's basketball game and he said he couldn't afford to come twice!!
He did call Christmas day, talked to the kids, not sure he would have, if I didn't ask him if he wanted to. He chatted a bit with me.
It ruined the rest of my day, and I even got upset and called him back. I Wanted to know how it felt to be without your family on Christmas day? He said, he would rather have been together with them(kids?), I said it could have happened but not if he's seeing an OW. He said,"things seem to be working out pretty well for him in that dept.!! So much for the "thinking about coming home" statements of just a couple of weeks ago.
Today, I am so down. I'm at work, luckily boss is out, so it's a guiet day, but I'm not sure I can get through the day with out some tears. I'm just so tired of it all. There is absolutely no excitement in my life, or the kid's for that matter, I feel like we are all just making do...just getting through another day.
I wish I could shake this feeling.

You can make it, Sugah. I know very well how exhausting it is to deal with our wandering spouses -- I've got my own to deal with, after all! But you'll make it, and the days that are good, the ones of ginger bread and quiet joy, will continue to grow as the bad days die away.

It takes time, and on the sad, tired days you'll come here and post, and come here and read, and it'll help some.

I'm going to post an update on my own thread today for the first day in weeks. Because today I, too, am tired of all of this.

Just remember that whatever your WH is going through, and I'm sure it's very very painful for him, Plan B is to protect you from further pain. If talking to him is hurting you, please don't. I know that interaction with my WP is enough to bring me to tears even when it's minor stuff, not to mention all the hurts of the last couple of years. So... just keep breathing, keep noticing those small (and large) pleasures in your life. You're strong, and doing really really well most of the time. It's okay to cry when you get too tired and upset to do anything else. And then tomorrow, after you sleep, you'll feel wonderful.

The holiday was difficult. I feel like my anger is coming to the top again, and I have been unable to stop myself from showing it to WH.
I wrote the following to send to OW, although I will probably not actually send it. However, I may send it to WH....although what's the point?
Why was he saying, "I'll think about coming home" just a few weeks ago and now seem have made an abrupt turn once again? Have I pushed him away? Maybe. Was he just being cruel?

Anyways, here is the letter. It helped to vent.
Dear

I have a few questions for you, however because I believe you really have no heart or conscience I expect them to be too difficult for you to answer.

How do you live with yourself?

How do you explain your adulterous affair to your daughters?

Do you justify by saying that you are saving WH from a horrible and wicked wife?

Does he justify it by saying that?

Was it exciting for you to sleep with my husband knowing you would be destroying the lives and happiness and his entire family?

Do you even understand the incredible pain that it has caused us?

Do you feel that wives and children are disposable these days and hardly worth the work it takes to make it last?

Do you encourage him to not give me a decent settlement or the spousal support that he was court ordered to pay?

Do either of you understand that I do the 24/7 child rearing and all that it entails as well as hand over my entire paycheck each week to supporting them? Yet, WH feels that it is fair to give me only slightly more than the amount of my paycheck towards supporting us and he gets to live off substantially more all by himself? And do you see that as fair?

Do you both downplay the pain that our sons are in, the acting out, the anger, the tears, or do you conveniently blame that on me?

Do your family and friends lack the same moral convictions that you do and blindly accept your adulterous lover as one of the gang?

Do they say, good job OW, quite a catch you’ve got there, was it tough stealing him away from his family, or is he so disloyal and shallow that it was easy?

Do you both expect my children and I to make the sacrifices that it will take so that they remain a part of WH’s life, even though he was unwilling to make that sacrifice for them?

Do you really think that they will enjoy spending 6 hrs. in a car every other weekend to be “visitors” in your lives?

Do you think that will be enough to sustains WH’s role as a Daddy in their lives?

Do you not realize that at some point they will realize what this is all about, and that their Daddy “chose” to be a family with you and your children over them?

Do you not think that it will hurt when they know that Dad spends all his time with someone elses children, and helping their mother take care of them over his own children?

Do you really think that because “divorce happens all the time”, that it really is no big deal, and that we should adjust easily and “just get over it”?

Do you ever acknowledge the pain you have caused or do you dismiss me as being an emotionally unstable person? And if so, do you accept any responsibility at all for that?

Do you justify your affair with “it was meant to be”, “we are soulmates”, “we can’t turn our backs on this kind of love”, and do you realize how juvenile and pathetic you sound? That kind of stuff is right out of Adultery 101! You are not unique!

I know why I want my husband, I have loved him for many years and we still have a family to raise and children who deserve a full-time father, but why do you want someone who walks away from his children, his commitment, and the woman he promised to love, cherish and protect? You believe it’s “different” this time? Foolish woman!

Every time that you are in bars or playing pool, and he is wasting money and time that should have spent on his children, is that OK with you? Is he still being a good Daddy? Does that show he is committed to his children?

Does it make your recreational time more guilt free knowing that his children are being well taken care of by the woman who thought that this was going to be a partnership? The woman who will pass on starting a new life for herself because she could never walk away from her children or force yet another significant other into theirs lives because she knows how difficult and unfair that would be to them.

Despite that, does WH even care that it is a real possibility that someone could replace him in his home and in his role as the person who makes his daughter feel like his little princess every day, or puts in the time and effort to make his son feel important enough that he would attend all his practices and games? That’s what they need but it won’t be WH who gives them that!

Do you understand that WH is not the kind of father who teaches his children right from wrong, disciplines them, comforts them, talks to them, really talks to them, understands them, knows their interests, knows what their day has been like….having the name Dad, doesn’t automatically make you a father.
You have to work at it and earn it!

No child should learn the kindof lessons that he is teaching them!

Do you not understand that our marriage did not just “fall apart” as WH claims, but that it was TORN apart, piece by piece, everytime you chose to sleep together?

Do you really see yourself as a "nice" person or the lying, cheating, sneaking, hurtful, selfish, thieving woman that you are?

I truly believe that people get what they deserve, and honey, I’m sure you will! And so will I!!!! Think about it.

<small>[ December 30, 2003, 10:14 AM: Message edited by: Shugah ]</small>

Shugah,

I've been thinking about stopping my visits to MB. I get so frustrated with you guys. I want to shake you. I want for you what I have. You've got to follow the MB Principles, Shugah. I've learned so much from my FWH over the past couple of days. Please listen!!!

The key is to really do PLAN B now. The importance of going dark is for him to miss you, to believe that you are moving on and its for you to get stronger and to not to resort to wanting to LB or write a letter to the OW.

Contacting the OW will do absolutely nothing for you at this point. Are you wanting to insure the end of your marriage, Shugah? Are do you really want to give it a chance.

A letter to her now will only fuel continuing their relationship at a point when he is wavering, beginning to sit on the fence. He has to see you as a bad person in order to rationalize staying in the A. She will use this to reinforce any of those thoughts that he has. Do you understand? This between you and your WH. Do not give her any of the power that she is seeking. Their relationship is coming to an end. I am sure of it and she knows this.

Stop this SHUGAH!! Get back on the horse.

I wish Mortarman was around to hit you with his 2 by 4.

Hi Shugah,

I hope you haven't sent the above letter to either WH or OW. As Mimi has pointed out, it's a huge LB to your WH. Please do NOT send it.

It's not like we don't know how terrible this has been for you, we've been there too. And I'm very sorry you're going thru this, you don't deserve it. No one deserves this kind of betrayal and pain, especially your children.

That being said, I'm not sure after reading your post if you're in Plan A or B. If you are in Plan B, then you need to continue NO CONTACT of your WH.

"Going dark AGAIN" tells me you have tried Plan B and then surface to have contact with your H, in which you end up LBing. That reinforces to me that you have almost a ZERO balance left in your love bank for him, which also tells me you should be in Plan B.

Every time you waffle between Plan B and Plan "LB" you demonstrate to your H the person he will be coming home to, not a safe place. I KNOW how hard this is, but if you're not consistent in you Plans you can expect the same results every time, a fence sitting WH.

JMVHO.

God Bless,
Jo

I know you guys are right as always. I've really pretty much canned the Plan B. I felt that it was working for a while...better communication, more fencesitting, which was an improvement from being totally off it! Much needed quality visit time with the kids at home ( I usually left)

But you're right, I'm LBing all over the place, when I get riled up about something...it consumes me.

I did say in my last post that I probably was not going to send the letter, just needed to vent.
But I know now that I ABSOLUTELY should not.

I will give it the old college try again. Nothing left to lose at this point.
Filing for D this week, I think that is what sent me over the edge. Unfortunately I need to file for financial reasons...
I'm sure it's the beginning of the end.

I'm really sorry Shugah. Please believe me when I tell you I KNOW how hard this is, I've got a few big notches of LB's on my belt as well, that's how I recognized yours.

If you feel you have to file for D for financial reasons, wouldn't filing for legal separation instead be the equivalent? As an alternative to divorce?

Lv,
Jo

I've been advised that legal separation is not the way to go. Because in the event of divorce, the whole process starts all over again. Which means more money.
Unfortunately, someone else is paying my legal fees and I don't feel that I can do that.
Because financially I need to do whatever I can to save the ship from sinking, I need to just do it.
I've let it go long enough and am about to lose everything.
This may be the only way to save the house, etc. WH has agreed to give me his entire Annuity account(if he doesn't back out!).

I'm just so sorry that this is happening to you. Although it seems like it's working out for me right now, I want you to know that I feel for you. It's awful!!!!

I guess you feel like you want to do something so writing the OW seems like a relieving thing to do. I honestly find myself to be obsessed with the OW, wanting to get her told, wanting to destroy her. However, the more I hear about the OW in my case wasting any time of my life on her is useless. She's a sleaze and was used by my FWH-just like what happens to most women like her. They are not even in our league, Shugah.

Shugah,

What a bunch of crapola! I am SO sorry that you find you have to take this route.

But...please - go back to your strong Plan B. You know it will help you by isolating you from the drama and the pain. And if he is truly starting to miss you, it may push him in the right direction.

The filing can always be halted (I hope, I hope!) if things begin to work out for you.

But you know the drill...DARK, very, very DARK!

*S*

P.S. Mimi...you gave me a good laugh, reading that you were "frustrated" with the MB'ers. I had to momentarily remember all the beatings you took when you would stray from the MB plan. I am delighted you're on the other side now. Keep up the good work. And don't you dare leave MB. Your experience is too valuable. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

I know you guys are right as always. I've really pretty much canned the Plan B. I felt that it was working for a while...better communication, more fencesitting, which was an improvement from being totally off it! Much needed quality visit time with the kids at home ( I usually left)
How did you have "better communication" and know they were "fencesitting" while you were in Plan B?Plan B is no communication.

Shugah,

I am so sorry for how you are feeling, I read your post all the time and it sounds so much like me, I have wanted to post to you so many times. I pray for you and the kids.

Your post made me cry <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> one to many times so I can say I know how you feel and I loved your letter to Ow I feel the same <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> , but they are right as much as I would love to send one also don't. Don't give her not one thing to use towards you.

Hang it there.

Thanks guys,
Sparkle- I'm with you, I laughed too about Mimi! I'm glad she's here to help toughen us up!!

No2Nos-it does suck! Sometimes I don't know how I made it this far! But here I am!

Chris-You misunderstood, I'm sorry for not being more clear. I had canned Plan B and I felt that NOT following it was what was improving the communication, etc.! And it was, for a short while, I noticed a real change in attitude...but alas, not being in Plan B, and not seeing anymore progress, allowed me to get emotional again and LB's have followed. So it is time to renew the effort.
I realize that my many failures at it have in effect ruined any chance I may have had at recovering my marriage, however I do need it to save my sanity!!

Resilient, Mimi, everyone...Here I go again! Perhaps a short version of Plan B letter might be in order? He knows how I feel though, so maybe just fading into the darkness is all I need?

Thanks once again for showing me the path to SELF recovery once again! It's not easy, and I'm my own worst enemy sometimes!!

You're a sweetheart Shugah, with a lot of heart and courage. Your WH will be lucky to have you back. Lets pray he'll not wait too long, and you'll still want him by then.

Very Best,
Jo