HI everyone, I'm new to the site and couldn't find any post that fit my situation so I thought I'd join and ask. I am the ww that had an A over a year ago. It ended quietly and I was too scared to come clean to H for fear that he ask me to leave. We shortly thereafter got pregnant with second child. He discovered that the A had occurred; kicked me out of the house 8 months pregnant. I had the baby, have our other young child with me and am struggling finacially and emotionally. I could file for divorce but I can't seem to let go. He won't commit to the marriage and says he can't see being married to somebody who could do such a thing. In the last two month he's aggreed to attend counseling and we've become physicaly involved again. I'm very remorseful over the whole A but also very angry. I do understand that he's hurt and betrayed but I also feel that he abandoned his family; not just me but his two children. I keep thinking that love is stronger than anger and if I treat him with love we can work through this and he can forgive me. I don't know how long it takes to start to forgive. I'm also very stressed out as a single parent and in a very stressful profession. I kinda feel like I'm hanging on by a thread these days. I suppose you could say that I brought it all on myself but I don't think these things happen in a vacuum. I'm not sure what to do now- how long do I keep trying? I told him that i'd give up the day that he married somebody else.

cutter,

Welcome to the forum. The best present you can give yourself this year is a copy of "Surviving an Affair". It will help both you and your husband understand how you arrived at this sad place and how to climb out of this mess. Rest assured that the marriage that you had is gone forever. You destroyed that with your decision. But there is no reason that you can't have an even better marriage if both of you recommit to rebuilding. Good Luck. Glad you are here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hi cutter,
Welcome to the forum. Many betrayed spouses do not choose to continue marriages where they have been so betrayed, and rightfully so. It is the greatest betrayal that one can suffer. Often adultery absolutely destroys a marriage because it shakes the very foundation of trust. I hope that your spouse can learn to forgive you and hope that you are working hard to repair the damage you caused.

Starfish recommended a good book for you both. Can you send your spouse to us? We could probably help him.

"Many betrayed spouses do not choose to continue marriages where they have been so betrayed, and rightfully so."
Is it right to ask a woman pregnant with your child to leave? Is it fair to the children? He agreed to have this baby with me, does he not owe it an attempt to salvage the family? Why is it so easy to be so cut and dry- you screwed up therefore I have the right to kick you out. I see this reaction as an affirmation to all the lack of love that led to the A in the first place.

Cutter,

The breakup of your marriage was a risk you were willing to take when you committed adultery. Don't blame him for reacting just as you should have expected. You put your kids and yourself in this position. You had to have known not to expect the wife of the year award when you committed adultery so let's not play victim here. You're not a dumb girl, you knew what you were getting into. You broke up the marriage, not him.

I sure hope you don't say this kind of stuff to your spouse because, if so, I can see why he would be dubious about taking you back. An unremorseful, angry spouse would make it almost impossible to restore the marriage. And remember, he has to settle for a spouse he can't trust if he takes you back. Many are not willing to do that. They want to move on and find a partner they don't have such a bad history with.

I agree an angry unremorseful spouse would be hard to take back. Don't doubt the remorse- it's there. But the anger is there also. I can't lie to myself and make the anger go away. No, I don't say this kind of stuff to my spouse- that's why I'm posting here, I guess.

cutter,

That's good, because your anger cannot help the situation at all. Here is some reading for you to do:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html

Plan A [above] is something you will probably want to start right away in an effort to repair things.

Here is a basic outline of Marriage Builders principles:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3550_summary.html

Just know that this is not hopeless, cutter. I know there are probably things in the marriage that led to the conditions that made you vulnerable to an affair. We all realize that here. Even though it's not an excuse to have an affair, it is something that will have to be addressed down the road. BUT, it should not be brought up now, lest you just push him away, ok? Right now, you need to start a program of attraction, and when he is willing, you can work on those other things.

Cutter,

Please, first of all do not be angry at anyone here. Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE here is glad you are here.

Most of us are betrayed spouses (BSs). And while there have been some here that have used the opportunity to dump on WSs (wayward spouses), those that have responded to you so far are not some of them.

There are WSs on here and I am sure they will post shortly in order to give you perspective from the WS side. What you are getting is the BS side right now.

Read Surviving an Affair. Also Torn Assunder. Get to understand the reasons why affairs happen. Even though you had one, I am sure that you still do not quite totally understand why this happened. So, get into those books, this website, these forums. Put your thoughts and concerns out here and have a go at it. I know that most BSs on here are trying to save their marriages right now, and would LOVE to have their WS come on here looking for answers. And to want their marriage back.

Now, I am going to answer some of the things you posted, and then give you a small snippet on what the Harleys teach here on the dynamics of affairs and how to recover ffrom them.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am the ww that had an A over a year ago. It ended quietly and I was too scared to come clean to H for fear that he ask me to leave. We shortly thereafter got pregnant with second child. He discovered that the A had occurred; </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, this was not the best way for your husband to find out. After you read on here, you will find that the Harleys believe that you must tell your husband about the affair, even if it is over with and he knows nothing about it. The affair was a huge betrayal and sign of disrespect. To not tell him, is an even greater sign of disrespect. Now a lot of WSs want it to just go away. To get their marriage again and move on.

THIS WILL NOT WORK...FOR SEVERAL REASONS. First, you. You have to live with the guilt and knowing that you have not given your husband the knowledge he needs to understand the full dynamics of your relationship. How can you get the forgiveness you need, when he doesnt even know. Second, as was said before, your marriage is dead. It was dead the moment the affair occurred. If you are a Christian, I can show you in the Bible where that is true. But even secular knowledge on this subject points to the fact that with an affair, that marriage is dead. So, cutter, you can not recover it.

Your husband is doubly betrayed. You had an affair. And then you did not tell him about it. Now you can say "Well, if I had told him, maybe he would have thrown me out anyway." Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe you being honest and upfront with him might have been enough to quell his anger to allow him to work at this. Maybe he would have thrown you out. Because of what you did, he has that right. But we will go into that below.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">kicked me out of the house 8 months pregnant. I had the baby, have our other young child with me and am struggling finacially and emotionally. I could file for divorce but I can't seem to let go.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am VERY sorry to hear this. I really am. So often, it is the children who suffer the most from our screw-ups. I know this may be a harsh question, but since it isnt laid out here, and depending on your answer, it might be a factor, then I will ask it. Is this new baby your husband's? If it is, then no problem. But if not, then there is a whole dynamic here that could be into play. Does the timing overlap with the affair? Is your husband 100% sure that this child is his? I ask these questions because I do not know your situation. And if your husband has doubt on who the father is, or if this child isnt his, then this may be a major reason for him pulling back.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I could file for divorce but I can't seem to let go. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I pray that you wont have to...that you will find a new marriage with your husband!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He won't commit to the marriage and says he can't see being married to somebody who could do such a thing. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">A very natural reaction, considering what he is going through.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In the last two month he's aggreed to attend counseling and we've become physicaly involved again. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">A very good sign. If he was "done" with you, then he wouldnt be doing these things. This is a start.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm very remorseful over the whole A but also very angry. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is also very typical of the WS. More below!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I do understand that he's hurt and betrayed but I also feel that he abandoned his family; not just me but his two children. I keep thinking that love is stronger than anger and if I treat him with love we can work through this and he can forgive me. I don't know how long it takes to start to forgive. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You need to understand something right now. You may understand THAT he is hurt, but you have no idea how much he is hurt. If every person in this world, before they got married, could spend an hour feeling the hurt that the BS feels, then I think most affairs would not happen. Most WSs I have seen early on in reconciliation, have nonchalantly approached the pain they have caused the WS. it isnt until later, once things settle down, that they find out the depths that they have driven their spouse to. Think about it. This pain is so excruciating that it drives many to suicide, murder. When I found out about my wife's affair (and then she continued it for another year), I went from 188lbs in April 2002 to 143lbs in September 2002. THAT IS REAL PAIN! One of the first things that you need to do is try to understand, really understand, what you have done to him. Read the books, they will help.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm also very stressed out as a single parent and in a very stressful profession. I kinda feel like I'm hanging on by a thread these days. I suppose you could say that I brought it all on myself but I don't think these things happen in a vacuum. I'm not sure what to do now- how long do I keep trying? I told him that i'd give up the day that he married somebody else.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I understand that! I was the single parent over much of my wife's affair, as she moved out for 9 months to be with the OM. I had three kids at home with me. I am in the military. My wife is cheating on me. And now, I am the fulltime parent. And dont forget that my 10 year old, 8 year old, and 4 year old, are also having their worlds' blown apart by the actions of my wife. And I have to pick up all of that mess. So, I do understand and feel for you. Like I said before, children get the worse end of the deal because they did nothing to deserve all of this. Do what you can for now. I believe that with the Lord's help, he will take care of you, and probably put your family back together.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why is it so easy to be so cut and dry- you screwed up therefore I have the right to kick you out. I see this reaction as an affirmation to all the lack of love that led to the A in the first place. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, because it is cut and dry. Legally and Biblically. I mean, MelodyLane has it right here.

But I want to approach the last part of that post, about the lack of love and affirmation that led to this i nthe first place. First of all, to you. Your husband is not responsible for your affair! You are. No matter what he did, it did not add up to having an affair. I say again...NOTHING your husband has ever done or not done to you or with you justifies an affair! This point you MUST come to understand, as Melody so bluntly puts it above.

Now, if the BS is not responsible, then what is he? Well, your husband is responsible for his own actions. It sounds to me that he wasnt meeting many/all of your most important emotional needs. Sounds like he wasnt being a good husband. I was the same way with my wife. Many of her needs were going unmet. And it led to a climate where an affair or divorce could happen.

Since I am like your husband in not meeting his wife's needs, then I AM RESPONSIBLE for my part in the climate where my wife felt it better to sleep around than to live up to her vows. But please, please do not get me wrong. No matter if I never met one need of hers...it still does not justify adultery!

You and your husband need to fill out the emotional needs questionaire, as well as the love busters questionaire on this website. And if you two can afford it, then counsel via phone with Steve Harley or Jennifer Chalmers on this website. They will direct you to finding why this has happened, and more importantly, how to recover and build a new marriage free from the threat of adultery again.

Again, I am not here to "beat you up." Anyone that knows me on here knows that I do want your husband to come home and for a new marriage to succeed. Some of my best friends on here are former WSs. But in order for you to even hope to have your husband coem home, to trust you again...to build that marriage, you must get smart into the dynamics of relationships...and the dynamics of affairs. Counseling with the Harleys will go a long way towards that. My wife and I have counseled with Steve Harley. Also, the books that I listed will help you understand all of the principles of marriage and of affairs. And lastly, all of the good people here can help guid you thru the day-to-day trials that are to come as you try to rebuild what has been destroyed.

Cutter, you are going to have to lose the anger. You feel your husband is responsible for your affair, and he is not in one little bit. He IS responsible for not meeting your needs adequately before the affair happened. That is why this website, the books, counseling, etc could help him also get over the affair, and also be a better husband.

Keep comign here. Ask questions. MOST marriages that have gone thru this, and gone thru the Harley plan, survive. And not only survive, but the new marriage turns out to be so much better than the old. Why would anyone want the old? There were unmet needs...and there was adultery. Not a marriage I would want to have. Do you?

How about a new marriage, one where there are both trying to meet each others needs always, and setting up boundaries that protect their marriage from family, friends, suitors, and yes...even children? If you want that, then you have a lot of work to do. So does your husband.

Last thing. In the end, it is his choice. God says there is only one acceptable reason for divorce, and that is marital unfaithfulness. Your husband has a right to divorce you. But itis not God's will that you be divorced. He wants your husband to reconcile with you, to forgive you. But he is hurt right now, and he doesnt knwo what to do. He doesnt understand any of this. Get him here. Get him in those books, and counseling with a counselor that teaches Marriage Builder principles. Find the money somehow to counsel with the Harleys (they are not cheap...but divorce is far, far more expensive!). If you want him to make the right choice and save your family and forgive you, and to ultimately be the husband that you deserve, then you are going to have to get smart. To accept what is yours. And then help your husband get smart.

If you do these things, odds are...he will forgive you.

In His arms.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by cutter:
<strong>
Is it right to ask a woman pregnant with your child to leave? Is it fair to the children? He agreed to have this baby with me, does he not owe it an attempt to salvage the family? .</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">cutter, one other thing. You don't want to say the above to your spouse. Trying to guilt him is a major lovebuster that will only push him away and make him think you are not sincerely remorseful.

<small>[ July 27, 2003, 01:05 AM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

Thanks for the responses. To answer your question, yes the baby is my husbands. Although the affair was physical we stopped short of sex- some sort of stupid rationalization that if we don't go that far it's not really an affair. Please don't jump on me for that statement because I realize now that it makes no difference as to the extent of the physical involvment- betrayal is betrayal. Second, there was no overlap in the timing.
I will encourage my H to come here but as he is firmly agnostic, I'm not sure how comfortable he will feel in site that is founded on religious principles.
I didn't mean to sound like I blamed him for the affair. I take full responsibility for my own actions. I guess I'm trying to avoid taking responsibility for the consequences, i.e. being a single parent now. Yes, I know- let the anger go. I'll work on it. In any case, thanks to everyone who responded and for giving me some direction.

cutter, do send your husband here. I am not religious in any real way, but this site has been a lifeline for me and helped me to understand so much about Affairs ,relationships and healing!
Even when MB'rs discuss their faith and beliefs, I still read and learn from it and use it in a way that fits my life and beliefs. It is our common bond of being BS's or WS's that matters the most to me.
It is so good to know that I am not alone in how I feel, whether it is anger, hopefulness, despair, (and it changes daily). Has the word "rollercoaster" been used on this thread yet?
You will see it often, and I'm sure you are already experiencing it!
Take care of yourself, that is most important, so that you can take the best care of your children and then learn all you can to help you recover your marriage.
I applaud your courage for coming here and admitting your A. It will not be an easy road to rebuild your marriage but it will be worth the effort!!
Good luck

Cutter, I too was a WW...I too was extremely angry. You can work through the anger...actually, you HAVE to in order to have a successful marriage, either with the father of your children or even with anyone else! Working through MY anger was the pinnacle to our current success...we wouldn't be here if I hadn't. You can do it...for yourself, for your children...but you will most likely need help. I saw a fantastic counselor for a while, and there was quite a bit of help from posters at another site (before I found this one). Good luck!

Hi Cutter-

I wasn't married, but I was in a long term comitted relationship and I betrayed my partner.

The anger that you're feeling is normal. I too felt angry when my X decided that he wouldn't work on it. I felt betrayed in a sense because he had held on and fought for the relationship and when I finally decided that I wanted it and was willing to give it everything, he found someone else and told me he no longer loved me. We share a child.

Realisticly the anger is there and whether you're right or wrong about it, isn't the issue. What is the issue is what you do about it. Anger is a surface level emotion. It's a primal instinct that is built into us to ensure our survival as children. The best way to deal with it is to poke at it and figure out what that catalyst is that is making you angry. What is the deeper feeling that the anger is covering?

You mentioned feeling angry at him for "abandoning" the family. You feel stressed and fearful because supporting two kids on your income is burdensome and wearing. What ownersip is there on each side? Do you understand how much pain your husband is in due to your betrayal? Can you see past your anger and look into his world?

I agree with mortarman. You have to start digging inward to figure out WHY you had your A. I spent over a year on this journey and every day i still take inventory to try to understand. Sure, my x has responsibility for some of the conditions that led to my vulnerability, but I made that choice NOT him. I am angry now that he doesn't want to open his heart tot me...but it is a situation that I created and as long as I live, I will do anything I can to help him heal...if he ever decides to open that door.

my point in sharing this. You will be a very lucky woman IF your husband can forgive you. Instead of holding the anger in your heart, try to explore it so you will learn new things from it. If nothing else, you truly will become a completely different person by doing this.

Anytime you need to vent or chat...contact me here or at Kily_mb@hotmail.com

I am curious as to why you chose the name cutter ..... ?

There is an anxiety disorder ... where people cut themselves to distract from their deeper pain inside .... and they refer to themselves as "cutters" .... are you a cutter in this sense?

I doubt you are, but was curious.

Pep

PS WELCOME TO MB ..... whenever you get angry at something you read here, ask yourself "Why?" .... it usually means there was something there that was a painful truth you were not ready to hear, so you push it away with anger. (Not YOU but all of us)

yes, pepperband- I am a cutter. Eight years on the wagon and not planning on fallng off but it still is who I am. Kinda like an alcoholic- once an alcoholic, always one.
Today I am more accepting of the fact that if he wants to end this marriage he has the right to that choice.

Mortarman, Thanks for kicking me out of my poor-me-single parent party. I am sorry to hear that your wife left you and children to be with OM. My children did nothing wrong, and I hate that they may suffer from my error.

Cutter,

The good news is that she is home now (the last 4 months) and being the mother she has always been. Our marriage is still strained, but each day we seem to work thru some of it. It will be awhile before we will be okay.

Hang in there and do what is right. The rest will be left to your husband.

In His arms.

Cutter,

I you are willing to accept that he has the right to leave, THEN you are ready to rebuild your marriage.

I think you have gotten some very good insights from MM, and others here. So let's talk.

One, of the major philosophical points of Harley's approach is the concept of "radical honesty". Please read about it in the articles on this site.

The next one is the concept of the Policy of Joint Agreement, POJA. It says that all things must be negotiated UNTIL both parties are enthusiastic with the agreement or nothing gets done. Read about this on this site.

The next is the 4 rules for a good marriage. They are simple, obvious, and I think you will find them right. Please read them.

Finally, there is an interesting topic that you need to consider. Disrespectful judgements, DJ's, for short. These come in many forms so read the article on this, but one of them is ASSUMING you know what your H thinks or feels. Assuming that he doesn't feel regret or pain when his children are put this is a DJ. I will touch on what that can do to you and him later.

Now when you have read these things, you need to stop and take stock of your marriage BEFORE the affair. Figure out the pluses and minus', and see where each of the items I have listed might have helped.

Finally, lets talk about your anger and resentment. A poster long ago used to have the following saying as in his signature line </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Resentment comes in many forms, and yes DJ's give voice to the resentments and creat resentment. Resentment is why Harley devised the POJA. His feeling is that no spouse should make ANY sacrifice or serious decision without the other's approval via the POJA. Sacrifices made unilaterally almost always lead to resentment and that hurts marriages.

He claims that even a divorce should be handled via the POJA.

So now let's get to your anger. Anger is often described as a secondary feeling. It is driven by pain, guilt, depression, fear, etc. So when someone is anger underlying that is one or another of the primary feelings. What is yours? What is driving your anger? You need to understand this, because often the anger isn't really the fault of the spouse, but how we see things ourselves.

Finally, a few observations. I suspect your H feels the second child was your way of trapping him in the marriage after your affair. Hopefully, he is as certain as you are the child is his. If he isn't or you suspect he isn't get a DNA test to prove it.

You have not mentioned two very important pieces of information. How long as your H known of the Affair? and How did he fine out? The length of time is a crucial piece of information because there really are almost programed stages people go through following an affair and it would help us help you to know where he is AND where you are.

Must go. I look forward to hearing from you.

God Bless,

JL

PS: This is NOT a faith based site. You will hear a lot about peoples faith here, because losing a marriage for any reason tests people's faith. There are a fair number of agnostics, atheists, even a Wigan (sp) or two posting here. But, I do tend to beleive the following two statements consider them if they will help your H come here.

1. There are no atheists in foxholes.
2. There will always be prayer in school as long as there are exams. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

In some ways, you and your H are taking an exam, and yes this can seem like war. So tell him not to be afraid to post because of his convictions.

My H discovered the the A at the end of Jan. 2003. He found a journal entry that I had written from the previous summer that implied I had done something wrong. (Affair took place from 2/2002 to 5/2002) He knew who the OM before I told him and said at one point he suspected it but couldn't believe I would do something like that. Not surprising, our marriage had been crumbling for the previous 6 months, even though the A was over. A few months prior to finding out (11/2002) he came to me and said he thought our marriage wasn't going to work and that we needed some time to ourselves. I begged him to give me another chance yet at the same time became even more scared what would happen if he were to find out the truth.
After D-day in Jan, he wanted me to leave. We lived platonically until the end of March because I was still on-call for work a lot and childcare would have been a mess if we seperated. My daughter and I moved out at the end of March. Second child born in the beginning of May. Yes it is his. He has told me that he has mixed emotions about the second baby. While I was pregnant, he would never mention it and when I did he would say that he just wished we weren't having one. He was cold and removed for the first few weeks after her birth but then started to come over and hold her a lot. He started to say things like "It's hard not to think about being a family, when you have new baby" Meanwhile I was having daily breakdowns. Everytime I saw him I would start bawling and beg him to forgive me. I think I reached new levels of patheticness and had some serious post-partum blues. He insisted that we were never going to be together again. I prayed that God would give him a change of heart and at least give me a chance. Early June we became intimately involved again (he initiated) and I started to see a ray of hope for us. He also finally agreed to marriage counseling. (He had been refusing that for awhile). When I press the matter and I know I shouldn't, he says he still doesn't know about the future and that he needs more time. I guess I've been in Plan A (I'm confused- can the WS do a plan A) in which I try to treat him with love and compassion. I guess it's been working because we have been getting closer with of course the occasional set back. Counseling and other triggers send us both into a funk from time to time but so far we are coming back to each other.
So that's the time line.

Funny you should mention resentments- I have a lengthy list of them. He made multiple serious decisions in our life without consulting me. Many of these decisons were to his benefit and were a sacrifice for me. I felt (and still feel) that I lack any say in this relationship. I also felt taken for granted. When I attempted to communicate my needs or concerns to him I felt like he wasn't taking me seriously and the problem was with me, not with him. I realize now that we had a major communication problem and yet we thought that we communicated really well.
Please don't get me wrong I'm not justifying an affair.

I realize now that this marriage is dead. I hope and pray that we can both change in the ways needed to build a new one. I will attempt to send him here but it will be a few weeks. We have agreed to not to discuss any major issues right now as he is about to take a major licensing exam. Enough rambling- I will review those points on the webset as suggested. Thanks for the input.