WS found out that I had read some of her e-mails to OP. I figured this out because this morning she stayed in bed most of the day and when she checked her e-mail she told me that she didn't get any. I asked her why she was telling me and she said that it would save me the time of looking. I had already spent the morning cleaning the bedroom and closet and when I finished she asked me if I found anything interesting. I didn't, except for alot of clothes I didn't know she had. She found out that I snooped after she asked me if I was posting on MB and I told her I was, Policy of radical honesty, right? She read my posts. I am glad that she read about my feelings.

I know why I snooped, it was to help me cope and understand the truth of what was acutally happening. I know WS is angry with me, D and I went to the pool and when we came back, my truck was gone and she didn't answer my call from the pool.

Snooping is definitely a big LB and I know I should apologize and tell her that I did it to learn the truth and because I love her and I want to save our marriage. Everything that she has said to me has been either word for word or very similar to what others have posted and called FOG.

I have been working very hard to control myself, doing things that I haven't done in the past and taking care of the things that I need to do especially. When I am nervous or anxios I like to sit and enjoy wherever I'm at. WS and I did go to some concerts yesterday with D and I enjoyed it very much. It was slightly awkward because she says she want to be good friends, so it was probably a friendly date in her mind. I will keep doing the things that I can to meet her EN's even though I just LB's big time, but it will probably be harder than before.

Mike,

Snooping is not necessarily wrong. Secrets and secret lives are!

The two of you need to put in place the Extraordinary Precautions that MB espouses. You should each have 24/7 access to each other's email, voicemail, ATM/bank records, everything. That's one of the principle upon which MB is based. Full disclosure of every aspect of your lives; no more independent lives, but fully integrated lives and lifestyles.

Do you have separate cell phones? You should each have access to the bills that come in to see who has been calling and who has been called. Ditto on credit card statements.

Don't feel guilty. She's being defensive only because she feels she has something to hide. When you talk to your W, explain what you said here: that you did it because you want to know the truth. Tell you you don't feel comfortable "snooping" and that a better approach is to agree to 100% disclosure to each other. Then you go first. Share with her your calendar: where are you going, what are you doing, and with whom. Share other things mentioned above. Encourage her gently that maybe you can get together each week and review your schedules, bills that have come in, etc. Give her your email password and voicemail password. Let her know you are willing and maybe, just maybe she will follow.

Good luck.

Hey Mike welcome to the Forum(I guess you are in Virginia)
Yeah,why snoop if there were no secrets at all?
No A no secret,so do not feel bad..been there done that,but be awared of LB which I had done too much of it already..not good. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
Good luck.

Hi MIke,

I am a bit wiped out today over ws attitude..... so-

Anyway, I am very tired of the whole scenario at this point... I read your post and I wanted you to know my heart goes out to you.

I am sorry that your W had an A, and I hope and pray you can get through this... you sound like you will.

Take care of you, H

Snooping is a perfectly legitimate activity when your spouse is withholding the truth from you. Sorry, but no one has to the right to the privacy to destroy you behind your back.

The only one who has anything to feel guilty about is your wife for conducting an affair. There is no guilt involved in CATCHING HER DO THAT, so quit with the HIGHLY INAPPROPRIATE guilt.

You have a RESPONSIBILITY to snoop when you suspect, and rightly so in your case, that your spouse is destroying you behind your back. Don't let her divert attention away from that fact by buying into some inappropriate guilt. You were completely in the right.

And you should also be putting spy software on her computer if you think it is still going on. And DON'T tell her. Radical honesty is for the RECOVERY PHASE, not to enable your spouse to carry on an affair undetected.

P.S. when she is "radically honest" with you and not carrying on with the OM is when you become radically honest.

<small>[ July 27, 2003, 06:43 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

Also, you should not quit snooping until she has demonstrated that she can be trusted to NOT lie and carry on behind your back. You have a responsibility to PROTECT yourself FROM HER no matter what that takes. Just remember, only a crazy person extends trust to an untrustworthy person. She should absolutely not be given the same benefits as that of a trustworthy person until she has EARNED it.

mike,
there is nothing wrong with snooping! and in case you missed it the first time here it is again: THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH SNOOPING!!

i'm sorry but when your marrital partner steps out of line you have every right to check up on everything that's going on in there lives. especially when the offending partner agrees that they have done wrong and has promised to do what's needed to right the wrong they've done.

when i was in your situation i used key logger software, put a bug on my phone, searched her belongings, her car, her empty pocket books..everyhting i could think of. i checked all cell phone bills, credit card bills as well as bank and atm withdrawals. and no she was not pleased but i pleased with having a cheating wife! LOL

having a wife that required this kind of attention was not my ideal either. but guess what? i needed to know...not believe but KNOW..what she was doing and who she was doing it with. it helped me and then us underdstand the level acrimony that i was feeling. how really hurt i was and stil am.

for me it went as deep as checking out her friends...people that i just knew she had taken into her confidence about her affair. and i'm not particualrly proud to say that although i eventually forgave my wife, i could never forgive her friends...never!...

these woman ate in my home, accepted my hospitality, professed love and care for my children and all the while they were vicariously enjoying my wife's many indescretions! yuk!

call me old fashion but i don't need people like that in my life and if my wife does then she doesn't need me in her life...and there it is..the deal breaker. now when i ask she understand why and makes a concious decision to answer truthfully...because she knows that if she doesn't, i will in the end firn the truth.

coach

I told her why I snooped on her. She told me that I had to do what I had to do. I don't think she is seeing OM anymore, but I know that she has friends that knew about the A and she still sees them. Or at least she really hasn't had too many chances to see him. For example, tonight she left to go to a friends hot tub to soak after D and I went to bed. WW has been suffering from a headache, I'm sure caused by me without remorse but I understand why, since I got home. I want her headache to go away. She's had it for a week, as well as other med probs. But, I told her that I didn't want her to go, but that could do what she wanted to do. She said that I was right she could do what she wanted to do with a bit of flair from her voice and hair. As if I should express how I felt knowing that she is determined to get a D.

She is in the frame of mind "I don't want to be married to anyone, I don't know what I want." She says she wants to seperate and get divorced, but the funny thing is that she wants to help me help her get on her feet.

I love her dearly, I think Plan A is just about readý for use because we have talked a bit more about us in the last two days. How should I tell her about Plan A without making demands??

Mike would she snoop on her daughter if she had caught her daughter doing drugs?

Sure she would. She would because doing drugs is a destructive behavior....so is having an affair.

And like her the parent you the betrayed spouse will and should continue to snoop until she has demonstrated her trustworthiness. Just like she would continue to snoop until she was convinced her daughter was no longer doing drugs.

I think WS's don't realize how much of a reason they have given us to snoop. Of course they don't like it because they are under the microscope, but if they had nothing to hide then they shouldn't mind.

If you monitor a WS long enough and found out they didn't have anything to hide, would you keep bothering to snoop? Eventually no.

From the way I understand it, Plan A is about you providing for her most important ENs. It's a chance for her to see how utterly wonderful you can be and for what she would be giving up if she went through with the D.

Have you read many of the books or website?

It's also the time to expose the A. And to cut out the LBs. Have you been Plan Aing already? If not, how come? She won't make it easy for you, she's determined she wants to live her fantasy life...hot tub at a friends? Hmmm

mike,
if you want to do a real good plan A then you should read everything you can on this site, that defines what that action entails.

also be aware that doing what's required doesn't mean you have to be a door matt! you should and can continue to snoop and make yourself aware. the thing is you have do it with out love busting or being so obnoxious as to cause your WW to run rather then stay! LOL

look, as things seem to be right now, she is talking the talk but not walking the walk. that is she talks about the big D but hasn't really done anyhting to facilitate that action. and you shouldn't challenge her to do so...instead, let her blow off steam!

if it were me, what i would be doing is a lot of listening and head shaking! i would stay away from confrontation and making demands. you can't control her, she will do what she wants no matter what you say because right now, what you say or think is just not important to her, (sorry but that the way it is) so why try to talk logic to her?

for me, the thing was to not engage! i just wouldn't argue with her. and when she said or did something very hurtful to me...i refused to let her know how badly it made me feel. man i just wouldn't give her any satisfaction by responding emotionally to her actions. however, so that she understandood that her acts did effect me, i always told her of my disaporval and that i was disapointed that she was doing something that i felt was demeaning to her, me and the marraige.

i also did things to change myself. i let my hair grow long again and grew a beard! i got myself some new cloths and began seeing friends. i worked out real hard and made myself scarce. in other words, i wasn't always around when she wanted me. i created some mystery about me and and i didn't invite her to go with me when i went to concerts or sporting events with friends! in short i made myself a life seperate and apart from her...and i drove her crazy! LOL

as soon as she came to the conclusion that i was attratctive to other people she came running back with bells on her toes and a ring in her nose...not on her finger thought LOL that came later and it was my choice to make as to putting it back...not hers!

coach

Ok so you got to feel better about snooping .Or did you miss that SNOOPING IS OK ! LOL

Also I agree with coach , she wants a D but isn't getting off her butt to get one .. also on the issue of not engaging is the fight ..

WS'S will do most any thing to get your goat , espcialy when you stop letting them ..

You are right to tell her you can do what you want ,, Your right it is her choice , you are not at fault for any of her choices , nor should you stand in the way of them ..

She has to relize it is her choice if she wants to continue the A , or get a D .. You don't have to help her in any way ..

Letting her make her own choices is not enabling her and letting her make her own choices is not being a door mat ..

Make sure she knows you love her and where you stand on saving your M and that you are not sticking around to be mad a fool of .. (SNOOP AWAY )
Good Luck to you , and take alittle time to reflect on you things that you want to change for yourself and for a better M ..

Mike:

A different view on snooping: Yes, early on it is necessary, because the person you've come 2 believe you can trust has violated that trust so severely. But while you're in plan A, if you're doing it right, you will be learning so much about yourself that you will find your self-confidence increasing such that you can "read" whether those around you are being forthright and honest with you without needing 2 snoop. This won't happen right away, but I guarantee it will happen. (it took ME over a year 2 feel this confidence).

In the meantime, it is important 2 continue 2 work on putting a good plan A in2 effect. Cut out the LBs as best you can. Don't be a doormat either, but getting 2 the point you don't feel like you are can take a while - so DON'T fret it if you feel like you're not "there" for a while.

A lot of recovering from infidelity involves patience. Patience and compassion. It isn't unusual at all the things your W is saying about M right now. I believe they all say those same words (my W does, even now). Don't miss the most powerful statement of confidence in your fu2re that your W is making - she is still home! ...and if she could see clearly, she should also not miss the statement you're making by being HERE and staying with her - you want your M 2 survive. But right now she can't see that. You will have 2 shoulder more than you feel is your share of the responsibility for saving your M for a while, probably many months. But as you proceed through this "process", you will feel better about your own abilities 2 do so with time.

Please take care,
-2long

I think you're right about W Spouses saying the same words. It's very uncanny. I went out with WW and D last yesterday afternoon/night. We went window shopping in the mall. WW looked at dresses. At one point she asked me if I wanted her to. I don't know if she was reading my mind or what, it was kind of wierd. Maybe she just took a clue from when I cleaned the closet the other day.

I learned the other day that WW called OM not more than an hour before she went to her "other" friends to soak. I have to admit it brought tears to my eyes on the way to work. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

BTW anyone ever noticed that Garth Brooks song about the river running dry. I seems like an anthem for issues like this.