My W has been out of contact with OM for at least 3 weeks and my W acts like her life is complete crap.

Thing is, it's not like she was happy with her life while the A was ongoing. I think that the A gave her certain things she needed to get by and not be too vocal about her unhappiness, but since the A was exposed (over 5 months ago), she's been fairly vocal about how miserable her life is and how she feels she has nothing to live for.
The EA continued until about 3 or 4 weeks ago when my W decided that she needed to give us a true chance to work out. Up until the last couple of days, I could tell she was unhappy, and she would tell me about that from time to time (at my urging), so I know these feelings are nothing new....but she had an eruption last night that I haven't seen the likes of in months. Uncontrolable crying, anger, bitterness, contempt....borderline hatred for me and "what I've done to her". How I mistreated her and now she's paying for it.

It's been so long since we had an episode like that, that I was really unprepared for it completely.

Is this a normal reaction of a person in withdrawl?? She told me last night that she was trying to give us a chance, but she just didn't know how much longer she had left in her.

How to proceed?

high_road,

I know it doesn't feel like it, but this is progress. Withdrawal is ugly. It's unfair that she had the affair and now she's being hard on you. But a primary lesson I'm learning is that MB isn't about being fair. It's about being smart and being the one who is willing to do what is needed to fix the marriage so these dark days will be over eventually. I think that counseling would be of enormous benefit to her, if she's willing to go. ADs would probably help as well, since you posted that she feels she has nothing to live for. Try to think of this as an opportunity to show her that even when things are horrible, you can be loving and supporting. It will be painful, for both of you. Keep your goals in sight. That old saying about it always being darkest before the dawn is true.

I had this wonderful post and then the computer locked up <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

h_r,

This is VERY normal. My lovely wife blamed me for taking away the "love of her life." She said I was making her a bad mother, worker and keeping her from completing school. My wife said some things that ripped my heart out.

Your wife might be feeling a tad bit guilty and it is a lot easier to blame someone else than to blame ourselves. During the A it was all good for her, she didn't have to deal with any real things with the OM. It was just about being "happy." Now that it is over she has to face a little bit of the reality that was created while her A was going on. Be patient and try not to react to some of the stuff that comes out of her mouth.

Your wife will be going through some things that she doesn't really know how to deal with and to her, sometimes, you will seem like the one caused it. Your patience will be tested and there will be ample opportunities for you to LB but try and resist those urges.

Let her know that you are there for her if she needs her. Your actions can't really speed up this process but they can slow it down.

Patience, patience, patience.

God Bless

She's been seeing an IC since right before the A came out. I don't know the rate at which counciling usually goes (I know it varies depending on the person), but I struggle to see any progress with the person she's seeing.

She is on AD, and has been for couple of months. They're still trying to get her doasage just right....it keeps giving her headaches and making her feel bad, so that has really yet to settle into a pattern because the doasage keeps changing.

I am in the process of trying find a MC for us both to go to, so I'm hoping that will see some progress as well.

I am going through a very similar situation, although my W was being very hateful and angry during the affair even before I confronted her with it. It is a day to day operation and requires a lot of patience. My W lashed out at me yesterday over nothing, absolutely nothing. And being my 3 yr old daughter was standing right there, I could not even defend myself. I am trying to get her to counseling, but so far she has refused. She says now that I am blackmailing her into going by hanging this A over head. I wanted to ask anyone out there about the "Tough Love" route. Does anyone think this may be for me?

Dear High road:

One thing to consider is that per Dr. Harley the road from withdrawal to intimacy passes through an area known as conflict. Conflict is where everying is bad and you are the source of all evil. She is interacting with you and giving you good information as to the things she needs from you to go forward.

If addressed properly conflict can be very good for the ulimate relationship. You will learn so much about your W and yourself.

Just something for you to consider.

All my best.

Jack

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>
How to proceed?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hi, High! (Always wanted to do that! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )

First let me say this all sounds very normal to me. Of course, let me qualify that by saying I have absolutely no clue what goes through the WS's head during recovery! I'm not there yet.....

OK, well, to continue. According to the concepts on this website, the M, and the partners go through "stages" in M. Remember? There's the Intimacy stage, Conflict stage, and Withdrawal stage. During her A, your W was in the WIthdrawal stage - withdrawal from the M. She was involved w/om. After NC began, she was still emotionally tied to HIM, so I'm sure you still saw withdrawal (toward YOU!). Now, I see her "explosion" as a return to Conflict state." That's a move toward Intimacy!

Another thought I had was there are also 5 stages of grieving.......yes, I'm sorry to have to report, she is grieving the end of the A. YUCK! I know this anger phase of grieving well (I'm sure you do, too!) If you don't remember about these, I think there's a link to them on any of Redhat's posts.

Final point, how do you proceed? You must Plan A her! You must continue to love her, show her unconditional love, and be there for her. She is in a lot of pain right now (I know, double YUCK, again, but it's true!), but she will eventually be able to see through her pain to see what you are doing to help her heal, if you are able to stay the course.

Ah, well, while I was writing a very long post, I see Willmakeitwork just said the same thing I'm trying to say!

Good luck, and God Bless,

The thing that throws me is that I was expecting possible angry responses and actions when she first agreed to NC this time.

But for the first few weeks, things really went well. I know she was unhappy with alot of things and she was sad over her "loss" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> , but I was able to be there for her through it all. I was able to get her to open up to me and tell me how she felt and I was pretty sure that she was being honest with me about her feelings. She would say some things from time to time that would seriously tick me off, but I did my best to hold my emotions in, because I knew that these feelings would pass with time.

But overall, the last few weeks have been really good. She's been there for me as much as she can, and I've been there for her the entire time.
But last night, it was like a switch was thrown or something. It was the most drastic turn around I've seen.

My W stayed home from church yesterday morning, as is becoming the norm (OM & his W were our "best friends" at church for years and she says that there are too many painful memories there for her), and she was in great spirits when I got home. The afternoon was wonderful and we had a great time together. It seems when she has Sunday mornings at home, something about it just turns her into a different person. She actually said that she felt happy and glad to be alive and hopeful for the future....this was yesterday afternoon.

She went with me to church last night, and apparently OM's step mother (who knows nothing of the A or why OM left the church suddenly) asked my W if she knew this and that that was going on with OM's family. My W has had no "inside info" on anything like that for 3 or 4 weeks, so whatever step mother told her was new to her.

We went out to eat after church with some friends, and I could tell something was bothering her. She tells me about this first thing when we're by ourselves in the car later, and things went down the toilet from there.

The trip home was how she didn't feel she could stay at our church because of all the "memories". Things calmed down for a little while after getting home, then when we were getting ready for bed, I could tell she was extremely thoughtful and I asked what the problem was....and that opened the floodgates. She cried so hard and so violently that she's having chest pains from it this morning. It really was like a switch was thrown.

So I should just roll with this? Keep my reactions in check and let her get out what's there?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by high_road:
<strong>
She went with me to church last night, and apparently OM's step mother (who knows nothing of the A or why OM left the church suddenly) asked my W if she knew this and that that was going on with OM's family. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Personally, I believe seeing/talking with OM's stepmom triggered the reaction. Almost like "renewed contact."

Remember, this is a "bumpy" journey. 2 steps forward, one step backward. It ain't easy. It ain't for the faint-hearted!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>
So I should just roll with this? Keep my reactions in check and let her get out what's there?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">YUP! You are going to have to be a "safe place" for her to come to. A place she can feel comfortable leaning on you, confiding in you, and KNOW that "you are there for her" and that you are not going anywhere.

This is hard stuff, but you are doing well.

Finally, I would consider going to a different church. Maybe just for awhile? Your church seems to have so many triggers for her.......just a suggestion.

God Bless,

This is about what happened to me and my FWH. He was angry, miserable, trying to work things out but couldn't keep her out of his mind. I think he was always dwelling on the "What if?" of losing his other relationship.

It took him moving out and contacting her again before he realized there was nothing there.

I hope it doesn't get that far.

The episode is a good sign, means she's starting to erupt in very strong feelings, rather than holding it in...

Be there for her, but some gentle reminders that she has to work on this herself, and not to blame you. The finger pointing will only delay dealing with the problems that got her to the point of looking outside the M, the rationalization..."My H is so...so I feel OK about seeing someone else."

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Finally, I would consider going to a different church. Maybe just for awhile? Your church seems to have so many triggers for her.......just a suggestion.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And a good suggestion. One that I have thought of many times. But one that would require quite a bit of trouble. I'm extremely involved at church and me taking a hiatus would mean getting other people involved in order to "take my place". So far, there's only one person at my church that knows about the A at all. I had really rather no one else know about things. I just don't want to have to explain things in order to duck out for a while.

I'm not saying it's not something I'd do though. If I know it's needed, I'll do that in a second.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are going to have to be a "safe place" for her to come to. A place she can feel comfortable leaning on you, confiding in you, and KNOW that "you are there for her" and that you are not going anywhere.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm farily certian she knows all this now....and to an extent, it ticks her off more than anything else.
She has acknowledged that I've been wonderful to her and have acted unselfishly towards her and been more than she deserves. She sees that and usually appreciates it. She knows I'm there for her and that she can come to me with anything, anytime.
But at certain times, that just seems to fuel her fire. She gets so mad that I'm here for her now, but never really was "before". Which is true, but is also the past.

I get the same thing. "Why so much effort now? Where were you when I was begging and crying for attention?" I told her that I couldn't change the past, but only work on the future.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I get the same thing. "Why so much effort now? Where were you when I was begging and crying for attention?" I told her that I couldn't change the past, but only work on the future.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Same here....

Our logic doesn't seem to hold much water, does it???

High Road,
I don't know what to tell you to do. Everyone tells me, including my attorney, to get a divorce now. My God tells me to hang in there, absorb the punches, and be the better person. He tells me that I am my wifes only chance at getting the help / counseling she needs and if I don't love her and hang in there through these times, that she will go through this vicious cycle time and time again for the rest of her life. My wife came from a broken home. No one wanted her. She was abused. Was recently diagnosed as bipolar, although she withheld this information from me.

Hang in there, and do what God tells you to do. He has directed me so far and I have peace for that.

High_road,I had been through that with my WH too many times,the last NC(false) was about two weeks,OP called and they met up the very next day they "broke off",they kissed(he told me no sex)and the following day he already burned CD with love songs and mailed to her,sent her email with attachment but no return address(made up address)
continued sending CDs and confessed to me,
expecting me to storm but I did not,he said he was being "honest" to me,so I should give him credit,all his withdrawls were very painful for me,kept telling me how much he missed OP,how much he wanted to call,to hear the voice(they lived on cell phone,their ways to communicate,when they meet up,too busy to talk but to eat and have sex)
it was so painful,there were times that I LB him,perhaps too often. He finally asked me to leave him alone because he did not want me to see him through withdrawl,the fact was he wanted to run back to her and he did. So I don't know what to tell you,just be patient,withdrawl is indeed ugly like Dobie said. And;you are not alone. Come here to vent if needed.

In love,out of hope,you know what your WW is just like my WH,and I am like you wanting so much to work on the M. My WH was abused and he used to blame all his failure on his pop,but since we got married I am the one to blame on all his actions,
his A etc,he recently wanted to commit suicide for OP left him(because I meddled....rather than
taking his responsibility for the cost of his A)he could not continue his grad.school that he started mid June,having the OP has created much damages in his life,is he happy now? I don't think so,does your WW blame you for everything too? I wish for my WH to go on treatment and get help instead of keep running to search for temperary pleasure or happiness...bipolar? I am unsure if he even has that,someone asked me if he has bipolar,even so,he would not face it,I like
to be there to help but he has rather go to OP who is seldom there for him except when she needs her SF to be met by my WH. So be it,their choices.
Yes,I believe that God is watching over me,and I pray that he would come home though in reality,I know he is long gone,and he won't come back,until I know it is really over,yes,in love,out of hope,where I am too.

I am wanting somone to talk to me about tough love. I am thinking that is where I need to go with my wife. It seems the more I love, beg, forgive, etc. the farther she pushes away.

wangi,

No, my W doesn't blame me for everything that's wrong.

That thing is, is that she is normally very logical. Of course, I don't know if she's just feeding me logical BS and I'm just falling for it, or if she truly is being logical.

She blames me when she gets extremely emotional and breaks down. It happened last night because she found out about something that was going on in OM's family. We were very close as couples and I know that she legitimately missed the friendship that we all had in addition to the illegitimate relationship she had with OM. So it's kind of a double whammy. She got her male relationship needs met mostly by OM and her female relationship needs met by his wife. How do you handle that????
So it's not just that she misses OM (which she does), but she misses the female friendship she lost when it all came out.

Anyway, she doesn't blame me for that...she knows she's the one that screwed that up. She blames me for us being at the point we're at. She knows that her A could have happened with anybody and she blames me for her being at the point that she was capable of doing what she did....and there's some truth in that. Granted, I know it's not all my fault. I've accepted my responsibility and have learned from it, and have not repeated my mistakes since. But she cannot seem to forgive me for my past mistakes and wrongs.

h_r, funny you mentioned But she cannot seem to forgive me for my past mistakes and wrongs.
That is exactly what happen to my WH,I had an EA for the irst two years of our M(I stayed
contact w/my xbf,just phone calls,I used to
confide in him whenever I was unhappy,probably once a month or twice a month max or not even once in months,but stayed contact for two years)WH found out and was very hurt,I told him I was going to stop talking to xbf,but didn't stop right away,he caught me again(from my phone bill)and I stopped immediately that I knew then I can't lose my H/M over an xbf. I had asked for divorce in between,he was hurt deeply by that..since then he held resentment towards me,sometimes I believe his A was a revenge to me except it went a little too far too long,and he does not want to get out. My WH had said to me many times that he is STILL hurt by me asking for a divorce(at that time,he smashed my perfume collection when he found out I was still talking to xbf,I was angry and I screamed out that I wanted the divorce,he went ahead and filed the divorce,we both signed,we were both angry then) he looked back and said he should have let the divorce go through,since then(late 99,early 00)I never said the word divorce,he had filed divorce due to his wanting to begin a life with OP last July,held on till I signed in January03,didn't send paper to court,it was going into judgment,he dismissed June03,had false NC and now back to OP again,he always say that it is because he can not forgive me for my EA and asked of divorce in 99..instead of looking at me forgiving him over his 20 months A and wanting to work on M. Whenever
I was nice to WH he told me to stop being nice,he didn't deserve my forgiveness or be nice,he feels guilty,I know..the only regret is how would he know that our M is over when he never given us a REAL chance to try again..all his NCs were false or too short to evaluate whether or not the M can work out. We both have learned from mistakes,I believe we wwould be wiser/more loving now if we sincerely give he M a real chance instead of running away..he knows my values and morality since I betrayed his trust in 99.I was painful,bitter and scared. But now,I began to accept that he is gone and he won't be back. So I must move on and be a better person myself. After all I am not the one that is still having an A.

We,the BSs from all over,seem to have similar problems..so we are not alone. That is why I am more active on MB than I ever been. The road to heal is long but I am not alone. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

I don't think my wife is/has done anything to "get back" at me for anything. She hates what she's done and she hates the bondage it has her in, but at times she feels powerless to control it.

Last night saw some of the same behavior as Sunday night, just on a smaller scale (thank God). But we were able to pray together and she calmed down fairly quickly.
I think that some days are just better than others. I know that she struggles with it 24/7, but it's plain to see that she has more power to deal with it some days.

I just wish there were something else I could do for her on the bad days other than just be there for her. It's such a helpless feeling to not be able to help.